Who would have won in a 12 round fight?
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Who would have won in a 12 round fight?
Monzon UD comfortably
I'd go with Hop over 12 or 15.
Monzon was a beast physically.
However, as a result of his technical ability Hopkins own physicality was underestimated.
In my opinion the older the version of Hopkins, the easier a time he has outboxing Monzon.
Monzon has a much better chance catching the young Hopkins who was a lot more reckless than Bernard post Jones Jr.
Great match up between 2 great champions, very close fight but if i had to pick
a winner it would be Monzon on points.
Sorry... Just nicked this from another thread.
Carlos Monzon: Once Upon A Time In The West by Mike Casey
And to answer the question, I'd say a draw... I couldn't pick a winner out of a rubber match. Depends on how Hopkins was able to upset Monzon, if at all.
Oh boy...that's a tough one. I don't think that I'll dare on guessing who will win it. I can never count Hopkins out and then again Monzon was Monzon.
I have never seen Monzon box but read about him as a fine rangy boxer with a big right hand. Hopkins gets the job done winning on points.
There are a good few of his fights that you MUST watch. I really didn't think much of him at first as he is hardly ever glorified and if he gets any coverage it's usually very brief but you only have to watch a few of his fights to understand what a monster he was. 'Fine' and 'rangey' are just gross understatements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Easy UD for Monzon.
Hopkins is not even on Taylor's level, so how the heck should he stand a chance against a monster like Monzon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44
Oh please. Monzon was almost stopped by an already ancient Briscoe, had to work his ass off with a long in the tooth Griffith twice and managed to stop an over the hill Napoles 2 divisions out of his weight class. The only other legit contender he fought was Benvenuti twice and the first one was fight of the year against a guy who had close to 90 fights. Monzon is one of the most overrated middle weights that ever lived.
Carlos Monzon had a very basic boxing style, a bit like Kelly Pavlik with the jab/right hand. Although obviously Carlos Monzon is better than Kelly Pavlik, but from what i've seen from Carlos Monzon. I can't see him dealing with the slick B-Hop and i see Carlos Monzon losing a pretty clear decision.
Flopkins is together with Toney the most overrated boxer of the last 20 years. If he is so great why are so many of his fights so close? Taylor is no world-beater but he went on top with Hopkins. Hopkins was humiliated by featherfisted Calzaghe and only the notorious racist judge Adalaide Byrd saved him from a devastating defeat. He was faking and holding like a child in that fight. Disgusting.
He beat a Pavlik there should have been on a rehap-center instead of a in a boxing-ring. No deal.
Flopkins as you call him was the first middleweight to unify the division since Hagler and defended his title 20 times, I don't particularly like the guy but that's not relevant. Lots of great fighters throughout history have fought close fights especially when the style used is a blend of counter punching, crowding and behind a cagey defense. I mean Robinson lost two fights to Paul Pender by SD so I guess he's not a great middle weight either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44
And Calzaghe wrecked his hands around the time of Shieka and up to that point had one of the best ko ratios in boxing. He was told in no uncertain terms to take something off his shots or have an early end to a career. He adapted and as a result retired undefeated and a multi millionaire.
Tony never fought at middle weight long enough to even enter a conversation about that weight class.
Monzon would've been taller than Hopkins, Monzon also had a granite like chin and Hopkins would not knock him out. Monzon had a huge right hand, thus the nickname 'shotgun' ! Monzon wins everytime, because he would just find a way.
“Monzón is the complete fighter. He can box, he can hit, he can think, and he is game all the way."~Angelo Dundee
Monzon is without doubt one of the 3 best Middleweights of all time, he drank, he smoked cigars, he fucked anything that moved, got shot by one of his wives, beat up on paparazzi and only began training one month before any scheduled world title fight.
While still a champion, a darker side of Monzón would begin to emerge. In 1973, Monzón was shot in the leg by his wife, requiring 7 hours of surgery to remove the bullet. In 1975, he began a very publicized romance with the famous actress and vedette Susana Giménez; they had previously met in the 1974 thriller La Mary, directed by Daniel Tinayre, where the two played husband and wife. Monzón hated paparazzi who detailed his affairs. He went to Italy with Giménez to participate in a movie and started increasingly traveling with her to locations in Brazil and the rest of Latin America, letting himself be seen with her, though still married. He was accused of domestic violence and of beating paparazzi. The fascination of the media with Monzón's private life reached its highest point with his trial for the murder of his concubine and his death in a car crash soon thereafter.
Can you imagine what this guy would've have accomplished had he really tried?
Monzon was a sinister character and not that well known in the USA, but in the ring he was a beast, a fighter who was the best in the world at the time fighting at approximately 75-80% of his best due to an out of control lifestyle.
There is a movie to be made here and what a story it is.
That is the math and this is the sentence allowing me to address it inside the quote. Its not personal in any way ftr. I read all your posts and agree more often then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Peace.
I aways thought Monzon was an overrated "dandy", prime X would have torn Monzon up to the body, and stopped him in one of the later rounds. BTW, I watched a bunch of Monzon's fights live on TV, his style was a pleasure to watch, I don't believe he could have handled Bernard's toughness and rough tactics.
I respect the opinion, but i can't help thinking that in the case of Monzon's reputation in North America the greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about. Monzon only fought once in the US. People just don't know enough about him, he was champ for 7 years and won his last 20 fights 15 by KO as the Middleweight champion of the world. If that doesn't make him top 20 i'm not sure what does? I am not denying Monzon was a lazy champ with regards to his lifestyle, but it didn't affect his winning all the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThat is the math and this is the sentence allowing me to address it inside the quote. Its not personal in any way ftr. I read all your posts and agree more often then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Peace.
These comparisons are always debatable and there are many you could argue about..
Would Mosley have beaten Duran at Lightweight?
Would PBF have beaten Chavez or Pryor?
Would Hopkins beat Hagler?
You place Monzon in the top 3 and he's off the graph for me. Resumes are deceiving at times but not in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANI respect the opinion, but i can't help thinking that in the case of Monzon's reputation in North America the greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThat is the math and this is the sentence allowing me to address it inside the quote. Its not personal in any way ftr. I read all your posts and agree more often then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Peace.
I witnessed his career.
Monzon only fought once in the US. People just don't know enough about him, he was champ for 7 years and won his last 20 fights 15 by KO as the Middleweight champion of the world. If that doesn't make him top 20 i'm not sure what does? I am not denying Monzon was a lazy champ with regards to his lifestyle, but it didn't affect his winning all the time?
Look he never fought anyone outside a name (at the end of their careers) and I welcome you or any other to rebut those remarks.
He was and is manicured.
These comparisons are always debatable and there are many you could argue about..
Would Mosley have beaten Duran at Lightweight? Probably not
Would PBF have beaten Chavez or Pryor? He'd embarrass Chavez and beat Pryor probably in a fight similar to Augustus.
Would Hopkins beat Hagler? Maybe.
He got his own back though.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Imagine how good he'd have been if he'd turned up for training and led a remotely normal lifestyle.
It's very hard to say, really. However, I'd say Hopkins by a razor sharp decision after he went to the mat once in the first 4 rounds but would edge the fight at the very end with dirty tactics, lot of grabbing and a head butt.
That's ok, i'll stick with him in the top 3 and leave Bernard to battle it out with the rest for a place in the top 10. Don't worry he makes my list:Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou place Monzon in the top 3 and he's off the graph for me. Resumes are deceiving at times but not in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANI respect the opinion, but i can't help thinking that in the case of Monzon's reputation in North America the greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThat is the math and this is the sentence allowing me to address it inside the quote. Its not personal in any way ftr. I read all your posts and agree more often then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Peace.
I witnessed his career.
Monzon only fought once in the US. People just don't know enough about him, he was champ for 7 years and won his last 20 fights 15 by KO as the Middleweight champion of the world. If that doesn't make him top 20 i'm not sure what does? I am not denying Monzon was a lazy champ with regards to his lifestyle, but it didn't affect his winning all the time?
Look he never fought anyone outside a name (at the end of their careers) and I welcome you or any other to rebut those remarks.
He was and is manicured.
These comparisons are always debatable and there are many you could argue about..
Would Mosley have beaten Duran at Lightweight? Probably not
Would PBF have beaten Chavez or Pryor? He'd embarrass Chavez and beat Pryor probably in a fight similar to Augustus.
Would Hopkins beat Hagler? Maybe.
Monzon
Robinson
Hagler
Walker
Hopkins
Greb
Ketchell
Steele
Cerdan
Fitzimmons
B-hop by close points win imo
In my book Fitzsimmons is god. Seriously, god.
OMG, impossible. Hence a no-brainer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANThat's ok, i'll stick with him in the top 3 and leave Bernard to battle it out with the rest for a place in the top 10. Don't worry he makes my list:Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou place Monzon in the top 3 and he's off the graph for me. Resumes are deceiving at times but not in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANI respect the opinion, but i can't help thinking that in the case of Monzon's reputation in North America the greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThat is the math and this is the sentence allowing me to address it inside the quote. Its not personal in any way ftr. I read all your posts and agree more often then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Peace.
I witnessed his career.
Monzon only fought once in the US. People just don't know enough about him, he was champ for 7 years and won his last 20 fights 15 by KO as the Middleweight champion of the world. If that doesn't make him top 20 i'm not sure what does? I am not denying Monzon was a lazy champ with regards to his lifestyle, but it didn't affect his winning all the time?
Look he never fought anyone outside a name (at the end of their careers) and I welcome you or any other to rebut those remarks.
He was and is manicured.
These comparisons are always debatable and there are many you could argue about..
Would Mosley have beaten Duran at Lightweight? Probably not
Would PBF have beaten Chavez or Pryor? He'd embarrass Chavez and beat Pryor probably in a fight similar to Augustus.
Would Hopkins beat Hagler? Maybe.
Monzon
Robinson
Hagler
Walker
Hopkins
Greb
Ketchell
Steele
Cerdan
Fitzimmons
Solid list. Greb in top spot for me and Burley would be in the top 5.
The order i place them in will change from time to time, but i reckon i am satisfied with my top 10. I keep Hearns and Leonard out as i consider them better Welterweights and RJJ a Light Heavy.. I have respect for Hopkins, but he was not easy to watch, his style was effective, he would've needed to use all of his guile and boxing wits to have beaten Monzon who was a genuine boxing phenomenon.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANThat's ok, i'll stick with him in the top 3 and leave Bernard to battle it out with the rest for a place in the top 10. Don't worry he makes my list:Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou place Monzon in the top 3 and he's off the graph for me. Resumes are deceiving at times but not in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANI respect the opinion, but i can't help thinking that in the case of Monzon's reputation in North America the greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThat is the math and this is the sentence allowing me to address it inside the quote. Its not personal in any way ftr. I read all your posts and agree more often then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Peace.
I witnessed his career.
Monzon only fought once in the US. People just don't know enough about him, he was champ for 7 years and won his last 20 fights 15 by KO as the Middleweight champion of the world. If that doesn't make him top 20 i'm not sure what does? I am not denying Monzon was a lazy champ with regards to his lifestyle, but it didn't affect his winning all the time?
Look he never fought anyone outside a name (at the end of their careers) and I welcome you or any other to rebut those remarks.
He was and is manicured.
These comparisons are always debatable and there are many you could argue about..
Would Mosley have beaten Duran at Lightweight? Probably not
Would PBF have beaten Chavez or Pryor? He'd embarrass Chavez and beat Pryor probably in a fight similar to Augustus.
Would Hopkins beat Hagler? Maybe.
Monzon
Robinson
Hagler
Walker
Hopkins
Greb
Ketchell
Steele
Cerdan
Fitzimmons
Solid list. Greb in top spot for me and Burley would be in the top 5.
Its a fine list. Mine is much different and has your number 1 clawing the bottom for reasons I have already put forth. Robinson was a better welter then middle. Ugly styles are quite often the most successful. Thats just the way it is. Monzon was not a phenom imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANThe order i place them in will change from time to time, but i reckon i am satisfied with my top 10. I keep Hearns and Leonard out as i consider them better Welterweights and RJJ a Light Heavy.. I have respect for Hopkins, but he was not easy to watch, his style was effective, he would've needed to use all of his guile and boxing wits to have beaten Monzon who was a genuine boxing phenomenon.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANThat's ok, i'll stick with him in the top 3 and leave Bernard to battle it out with the rest for a place in the top 10. Don't worry he makes my list:Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitYou place Monzon in the top 3 and he's off the graph for me. Resumes are deceiving at times but not in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANI respect the opinion, but i can't help thinking that in the case of Monzon's reputation in North America the greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThat is the math and this is the sentence allowing me to address it inside the quote. Its not personal in any way ftr. I read all your posts and agree more often then not.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Peace.
I witnessed his career.
Monzon only fought once in the US. People just don't know enough about him, he was champ for 7 years and won his last 20 fights 15 by KO as the Middleweight champion of the world. If that doesn't make him top 20 i'm not sure what does? I am not denying Monzon was a lazy champ with regards to his lifestyle, but it didn't affect his winning all the time?
Look he never fought anyone outside a name (at the end of their careers) and I welcome you or any other to rebut those remarks.
He was and is manicured.
These comparisons are always debatable and there are many you could argue about..
Would Mosley have beaten Duran at Lightweight? Probably not
Would PBF have beaten Chavez or Pryor? He'd embarrass Chavez and beat Pryor probably in a fight similar to Augustus.
Would Hopkins beat Hagler? Maybe.
Monzon
Robinson
Hagler
Walker
Hopkins
Greb
Ketchell
Steele
Cerdan
Fitzimmons
Solid list. Greb in top spot for me and Burley would be in the top 5.
Great discussion and read lads, I am with the third man on this one.