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Cleverly got some much needed, tv espouser on the US net work he looked good mixing punches head to
body, Hawk may have not been the best opponent, he was tough and gave it a go.
Nathan will take some beating, his work rate is second to none I feel he will out work the other plodders
in the division. Well done a good performance, now for him to punch the crap out of Hopkins, I do hope
SO.:boxing2: ;)
Cleverly is an honest pro with little power, and is not a world champion in the real sense , he is a Warren Boxing Orginisation media product.
Cleverly has a style thats easy to watch and he does have skill, but he takes far too many shots from the likes of Hawk to be able to beat the big guns.
His power is improving he has a great engine, his work rate is high that will grind opponents down,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
he is a very good boxer, we must remember lot's of BIG punchers, don't have good chins.
He would beat Dawson, so if he gets a WBC or WBA title that would make him a better Champ.!
I like the way Cleverly fights, he gets right to it without any deception at all.
That's the thing he will have to change as he faces better competition. Cleverly's straight ahead style is like meat and potatoes to heavy punchers and right now, I think Hopkins would treat him just like he did Pavlik. You have to agree he was taking too many head shoots from a relatively unknown fighter.
Cleverly throws plenty of punches and mixes them up well, but he has to improve his defense and let some of these guys come to him so he can counter them.
He needs to work with a different trainer or an additional trainer for a while, in my opinion.
The thing is Cleverly fights at a fast pace, Hopkins don't like to fight at no more than walking pace,Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
plus he's well past his best if he had one,Nathan will out work the old Hopkins, if he was to fight over
here, it would be a great fight for the fans. Speed is the key remember he has plenty, Hopkins bitching
holding and hitting, maybe 2 right hands in a round, same old Hopkins.;)
I still don't see what the fuss is about Cleverly. He has never fought anyone who poses even a slight challenge to him and has not looked all that impressive even in many of those fights. He has little power and no defence - he'll be exposed when he starts to step up in class. He might beat a 9,000 year old Hopkins (has this fight been made?) who throws more headbutts than punches these days, but I'm not certain he will.
Maybe he could give Bute, a crack at his title,:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
While I'm no fan of Bute, he would destroy Cleverly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoMaybe he could give Bute, a crack at his title,:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Cleverly is approaching Bute territory in terms of his level of opposition, though Bute probably fought better competition through 25 fights.
I don't think so, Bute has no chin I have seen Cleverly box as a 16 year old, he was good then, winningQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHWhile I'm no fan of Bute, he would destroy Cleverly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoMaybe he could give Bute, a crack at his title,:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Cleverly is approaching Bute territory in terms of his level of opposition, though Bute probably fought better competition through 25 fights.
a Welsh ABA title, I've seen plenty of Champs in my time,and he's got what it takes it very rare I'm
WRONG.;)
He has some talent and early on a nice workrate. But I think its a little premature to start saying he's good to upend a Hopkins or Dawson. He needs better comp, more work and maturity. Dawson may have looked like reheated dog food vs Ward but that was a world class Ward at the peak..an entirely different animal.
Nice volleys but he almost is too use to them just being there. He has spots where he'll stop and hesitate if hes feinted or a guy punches in between them and he thinks outloud. Better guys will see that and take note. He does alot of frenetic almost nervous energy...moving just for the sake of moving and showboating. That raising the hands and clowning could get him in serious trouble against a top calibur guy and I don't think he's been clocked clean on the chin yet. Walk then run.
Ask Calzaghe he sparred hundreds of rounds, with Nathan he rates him as a kid and a pro, simplyQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
he's that good.;)
I wish they would change the laws in boxing. Sick of fighters not fighting who they should be. Put cleverly in with dawson or ward next.
I dont care if hes not ready hes a world champion and should want fight the best out there.
Cleverly should be chasing dawson down but i fear he will wait until dawson is way past his prime
I like Clev, Oh sure he may not be the next Wilde or Winstone but he’s very fan friendly, has more chin then a Chinese phone-book and is fundamentally decent. As others have mentioned he does seem to get hit more then he needs to but I think that’s because he wants to be a crowd pleaser to much so he is over eager. I think that can be handcuffed a bit w/o affecting his work ethic to much. In addition he lives in the shadow of Calzaghe and that’s got to be tough on the kid. I think he will be fine.
Bute has a decent chin, he just has no defence. He took a million flush shots from Froch before he went down and Cleverly has nowhere near the power that Froch does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI don't think so, Bute has no chin I have seen Cleverly box as a 16 year old, he was good then, winningQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHWhile I'm no fan of Bute, he would destroy Cleverly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoMaybe he could give Bute, a crack at his title,:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Cleverly is approaching Bute territory in terms of his level of opposition, though Bute probably fought better competition through 25 fights.
a Welsh ABA title, I've seen plenty of Champs in my time,and he's got what it takes it very rare I'm
WRONG.;)
Tony bellew will beat him in a rematch
I thought he won the first fight
Bellew only had 2 weeks notice
When they meet again in a couple of years
Bellew wins UD
Cleverly is a far better boxer, than you think next time he will out box Bellew, I like Bellew but CleverlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Glinchdogg
is the better fighter.;)
You are wrong there, Bute is a bit like Khan on top fighter with a poor chin, Cleverly has a GOOD chin,Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHBute has a decent chin, he just has no defence. He took a million flush shots from Froch before he went down and Cleverly has nowhere near the power that Froch does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI don't think so, Bute has no chin I have seen Cleverly box as a 16 year old, he was good then, winningQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHWhile I'm no fan of Bute, he would destroy Cleverly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoMaybe he could give Bute, a crack at his title,:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Cleverly is approaching Bute territory in terms of his level of opposition, though Bute probably fought better competition through 25 fights.
a Welsh ABA title, I've seen plenty of Champs in my time,and he's got what it takes it very rare I'm
WRONG.;)
when he hit's them right he hurts them, his fitness and work rate are a major factor.
Nathan will out work a plodder like Hopkins, he will set a pace in a fight which his opponents don't
match. Again if Calzaghe RATE'S him you take a bit of notice, I remember him stopping a lad, from
my son's old club, in the first round, looking back he was a bit special.;)
If Nathan's "workrate" will play such a factor in beating the best guys in the world, explain why he scraped a win over Bellew and that French guy Mohammedi? Men that have never mixed in world-class. He couldn't even put a dent in Tommy Karpency.
Dia Bando, you're jumping from one extreme to another.
Cleverly is a good fighter. Yes his workrate is strong. However, he needs to be seriously improving. When he steps up in class he wont get away with just marching forward and unloading with no worry about what's coming back. That only works when you have a punch bag in front of you (like Saturday night).
Bute would be a HUGE step up in class. And a big favourite.
Dia
Cleverly has got skills and is decent
Bellew has improved a lot since that fight IMO
Cant wait for the rematch
Tavoris Cloud next maybe. I can't see Frank being able to sell a lot of tickets for Shumenov but maybe him and Don King can work out a Cloud fight. I don't think Frank will let him go to New York to fight Hopkins. Dawson is too good for him I think unless he's been destroyed by losing to Ward. There aren't really a lot of options for him right now and definitely no really lucrative ones.
What I find funny, the same thing's were said about Calzaghe and now Cleverly WBO Champ etc,
people have short memory's. When you win the other Title's WBC etc, your the dog's Bollocks
what a load of crap. Remember it's not that bit of plastic,it's the guy that's got it that counts.
Bit like Burns , I shall buy 2 dozen egg ready for you to rub in your face's.
Fenster is right Cleverly does need to work on his boxing skills he cannot keep relying on his work rate and chin. Nathan can be out boxed by a world class fighter.
Imo his skills are decent but its his "will" that needs to be put in check. To eager to please by mixing it up. He does not need to fight that way. He chooses to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The thing is he is getting , drawn into a brawl I feeling he is trying to hard to please, I tell you he couldQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
have boxed Bellew head off easy, I was thinking what the hell are you doing, he is making easy fights
hard. The better his opponent, he will raise his level to surpass them.;)
Time will tell, and at the moment I will sit on the fence.
Cleverly's defence worries me, given that he is walking onto shots thrown by guys who are generally poor in ability.
Secondly, it's easy to claim work rate as one of your strengths when you are hitting a static target. Pavlik had a very high work rate prior to fighting Hopkins, but you soon stop throwing leather when it misses.
This is my opinion he is trying to hard to please, if he sticks to using his boxing ability he will winQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobthepen
Hopkins is a spoiler, don't fight him at his game speed movement and a high work rate.
It take's more than 1 or 2 sneak right hands, to win a round, Calzaghe had him going but the play-acting old got was rolling on the floor like he had been shot.!
Nathan has more than enough, talent to beat him plenty may not agree but it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.;D
Bute has a chin, if he didn't the Froch fight would have been over in the first or second round. He's not Margarito, but he's not Khan either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoYou are wrong there, Bute is a bit like Khan on top fighter with a poor chin, Cleverly has a GOOD chin,Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHBute has a decent chin, he just has no defence. He took a million flush shots from Froch before he went down and Cleverly has nowhere near the power that Froch does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI don't think so, Bute has no chin I have seen Cleverly box as a 16 year old, he was good then, winningQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHWhile I'm no fan of Bute, he would destroy Cleverly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoMaybe he could give Bute, a crack at his title,:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Cleverly is approaching Bute territory in terms of his level of opposition, though Bute probably fought better competition through 25 fights.
a Welsh ABA title, I've seen plenty of Champs in my time,and he's got what it takes it very rare I'm
WRONG.;)
when he hit's them right he hurts them, his fitness and work rate are a major factor.
Nathan will out work a plodder like Hopkins, he will set a pace in a fight which his opponents don't
match. Again if Calzaghe RATE'S him you take a bit of notice, I remember him stopping a lad, from
my son's old club, in the first round, looking back he was a bit special.;)
Cleverly has been hurting nobodies by accumulation, nothing more. He won't be able to land at will on a decent fighter and, even with his output, will end up eating more shots than he lands because he has no defence. If he doesn't vastly improve his defence, he is not going to get anywhere against anyone with a pulse.
Cleverly has a lot of potential and I like what I see. He is cracking fun to watch and it doesn't matter if he isn't the hardest puncher in the world. He has a superb output, can vary his approach and in some respects reminds me of Calzaghe. Though Calzaghe had more nous and much better footwork. As a work in progress though, Cleverly should improve and I have high expectations for him. A high output fighter is Froch's nightmare and I would give Cleverly a fair shot of beating Froch a few fights from now. Bute is done, Cleverly beats him convincingly IMO. You cannot be gunshy against Cleverly.
I have high hopes for him. I loved what I saw in his last fight and have been catching up on You Tube.
Good point about the volume of punches and pressure plus Hopkins isn't getting any younger. If he gets past Hopkins, What will happen when he faces Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe thing is Cleverly fights at a fast pace, Hopkins don't like to fight at no more than walking pace,Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
plus he's well past his best if he had one,Nathan will out work the old Hopkins, if he was to fight over
here, it would be a great fight for the fans. Speed is the key remember he has plenty, Hopkins bitching
holding and hitting, maybe 2 right hands in a round, same old Hopkins.;)
Dawson was shell shocked , Ward is not a big puncher but he stopped him, Cleverly has spared hundreds of rounds with Calzaghe, who was a great champion ,that alone will be good experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedGood point about the volume of punches and pressure plus Hopkins isn't getting any younger. If he gets past Hopkins, What will happen when he faces Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe thing is Cleverly fights at a fast pace, Hopkins don't like to fight at no more than walking pace,Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
plus he's well past his best if he had one,Nathan will out work the old Hopkins, if he was to fight over
here, it would be a great fight for the fans. Speed is the key remember he has plenty, Hopkins bitching
holding and hitting, maybe 2 right hands in a round, same old Hopkins.;)
Dawson can be negative, Cleverly to win that one.:)
In fairness to Dawson, nobody else in history save Lalonde has fought for 6 years at 175 and then had to come down to 168. It was pretty clear to me that he was totally depleted. Clev will have to wait for Dawson as the Pascal fight has now been signed for March. Perhaps Clev can make a play for the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoDawson was shell shocked , Ward is not a big puncher but he stopped him, Cleverly has spared hundreds of rounds with Calzaghe, who was a great champion ,that alone will be good experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedGood point about the volume of punches and pressure plus Hopkins isn't getting any younger. If he gets past Hopkins, What will happen when he faces Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe thing is Cleverly fights at a fast pace, Hopkins don't like to fight at no more than walking pace,Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
plus he's well past his best if he had one,Nathan will out work the old Hopkins, if he was to fight over
here, it would be a great fight for the fans. Speed is the key remember he has plenty, Hopkins bitching
holding and hitting, maybe 2 right hands in a round, same old Hopkins.;)
Dawson can be negative, Cleverly to win that one.:)
Yes I think you could be right, weight why come down I can see why a good pay day, this fight mayQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIn fairness to Dawson, nobody else in history save Lalonde has fought for 6 years at 175 and then had to come down to 168. It was pretty clear to me that he was totally depleted. Clev will have to wait for Dawson as the Pascal fight has now been signed for March. Perhaps Clev can make a play for the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoDawson was shell shocked , Ward is not a big puncher but he stopped him, Cleverly has spared hundreds of rounds with Calzaghe, who was a great champion ,that alone will be good experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedGood point about the volume of punches and pressure plus Hopkins isn't getting any younger. If he gets past Hopkins, What will happen when he faces Dawson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe thing is Cleverly fights at a fast pace, Hopkins don't like to fight at no more than walking pace,Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
plus he's well past his best if he had one,Nathan will out work the old Hopkins, if he was to fight over
here, it would be a great fight for the fans. Speed is the key remember he has plenty, Hopkins bitching
holding and hitting, maybe 2 right hands in a round, same old Hopkins.;)
Dawson can be negative, Cleverly to win that one.:)
have damaged Dawson s state of mind,! Ward and Dawson was a good fight on paper, at light HW
I feel it was a bit foolish on Dawson's part , coming down in weight.!
Pascal v Dawson, I go for Pascal to win by KO, Cleverly v Pascal now that's a cracking fight.:)