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What happens if we unleash a prime Mike Tyson under the tutelage of Kevin Rooney into this era?
How would he fare against K2, Povetkin, Haye, Pulev, Price, Fury and all of the other big names out there?
Would be like pitting a lion against a human in most of these cases IMO ...
Destroys them all,, except prime Vitali, who I think could take Tyson's best shots and therefore that fight is hard to call!Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
Pretty much how I see it too. I cant see any of them standing a chance except the Klitschko brothers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HDestroys them all,, except prime Vitali, who I think could take Tyson's best shots and therefore that fight is hard to call!Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
K2 - Wlad : 1st or 2nd round KO win for Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
K2 - Vitali : Late Stoppage loss for Tyson.
Povetkin : Early Stoppage win for Tyson.
Haye : Hmm, if Tyson gets haye he stops him, but can he get to him? Haye also has some power. Likely a Tyson win
Pulev : Early stoppage win for Tyson.
Price : Too early to have Price in this list.
Fury : Fury punches himself again and Tyson get an undeserved KO win.
Destroy them all apart from Vitali,his height and reach would cause Tyson problems
good puncher and a great chin.The rest you can forget about.
The brothers K have the potential to beat him, particularly Vitali. I wouldn't be surprised if Wlad beat him. The assumption is that if Tyson caught him he'd knock him out is a given, but that has been the case with most of Wlad's opponents. The question is would Tyson catch him? Tillis, Tucker, Ruddock and Smith were knocked out more than twenty times collectively, but all managed to go the distance with Mike.
The rest of the division are dogshit and Tyson would rip them apart.
Tillis, Tucker, Ruddock and Smith didn't have horrible punch resistance at the stages of their careers when they fought Tyson. Smith did nothing but hold and should've been DQ'ed for fighting like a complete coward. Ruddock was ruined after his encountered with Tyson ... it was only after the Tyson fights that he started getting KOed. Tyson broke his jaw clean and even a rib or two, so its understandable why. And he did stop him in the first fight, so once again you are wrong.
Tillis fought Tyson when Mike was still green. He still scored a knockdown and dominated most of the fight. Tucker had never been KOed until the very end of his career. Not even Lewis could put him away or Buster Douglas who hit harder than Lewis. Just because Tyson didn't KO these guys it means he "failed" or "lost"? Can you show me any fighter ever who won all of his fights by KO and became a champion?
Wlad is going to get stopped in the first round ... he's lucky to survive past 2 minutes ... just a matter of time when Tyson punches his jaw off. Vitali lasts a little longer but also gets stopped. His chin is overrated and the only big puncher he ever fought was Lennox Lewis, who was fat and practically retired. Vitali said he saw all of Lewis's punches too. His piss poor resume and domination of lesser competition means nothing. That backpeddling faggotry won't work against Tyson.
I say he destroys all mentioned except for the Klitschko's... those fights would be toss-ups for me.
I think he destroys them all, and beats Vitali clearly in a tough fight as well. Yes Vitali could probably take his punch, but the same is very true in reverse, and Tyson would have a MUCH easier time landing and doing effective work inside imo. When has Vitali actually fought well enough to suggest he would win more rounds than Tyson at his absolute peak, I'm having a hard time seeing this. Vitali is tough as nails, but he is fairly clumsy and upright, and he wouldn't have the ability to keep Tyson at bay. I think if you gave Wlad his brothers chin, that probably spells doom for Tyson, but Vitali doesn't have nearly as good a jab or right hand, and couldn't keep the distance as well.
Tyson would clean up in this era even more convincingly than he did in the 80s.
Wlad is made to measure for Tyson and would be out of there as soon as Tyson caught him clean on the chin. I wouldn't be surprised if it was over in a couple of rounds.
Vitali probably gives Mike a few problems and can take a shot, so I see that going the distance with Tyson taking the decision quite comfortably.
Sanders speed shocked VitaliQuote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
Tyson is going to take him out ... maybe even early.
Pele Reid style ;D
I'm not so sure Mike would KO Vitali. He certainly wouldn't have decked him with a single shot. Maybe if he lands a big combination on him, but otherwise it goes the distance in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombSanders speed shocked VitaliQuote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
Tyson is going to take him out ... maybe even early.
Pele Reid style ;D
Vitali proved against Lewis that he takes one hell of a punch.
I see Tyson being too quick and out working Vitali on his way to a decision.
Vitali having a great chin is largely an untested myth. Lewis landed some good punches on him and he took them ... so what? Vitali said he SAW all of the punches so he clearly braced for impact and was mentally prepared to take them. Corrie Sanders had him shocked with his speed and sent him backwards. Tyson is just as fast if not faster in terms of hand speed and puts together excellent combinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesqueI'm not so sure Mike would KO Vitali. He certainly wouldn't have decked him with a single shot. Maybe if he lands a big combination on him, but otherwise it goes the distance in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombSanders speed shocked VitaliQuote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
Tyson is going to take him out ... maybe even early.
Pele Reid style ;D
Vitali proved against Lewis that he takes one hell of a punch.
I see Tyson being too quick and out working Vitali on his way to a decision.
Other than two old shot guys in Lewis and Sanders, Vitali has NEVER fought against a truly powerful puncher.
Also Vitali has NO inside game at all. If he doesn't control the distance he can't win ... Tyson would be moving in and going to the body. Vitali would either backpeddle or try and clinch. If he tries to fight him he's toast. Tyson would show no respect and keep the pressure on him. He can try and peck at him but he doesn't really possess an uppercut, the one punch that was really effective against Mike.
5th round KO
I don't think we can say Vitali doesn't have a chin. I forget what round it was in, but Lewis hit him with a monster uppercut that would have taken a lot of fighter's heads off and Vitali barely flinched.
Prime Mike would have been too quick for Vitali and easily out works him, but his sheer size would have made it difficult for Mike to catch him with big combinations to the head.
Tyson wasn't a head hunter then ... if the body was available he'd dig right into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
He does have a good chin but its not super amazing if we can only base it from one fight. Plus he said that he Lewis was slow and he saw everything coming. Compare that with a Tyson uppercut that he would never see coming. The speed difference is too great and Tyson would charge him.
I guess there is a possibility that Tyson could force the ref to step in, but I just can't see Vitali being counted out.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBombTyson wasn't a head hunter then ... if the body was available he'd dig right into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
He does have a good chin but its not super amazing if we can only base it from one fight. Plus he said that he Lewis was slow and he saw everything coming. Compare that with a Tyson uppercut that he would never see coming. The speed difference is too great and Tyson would charge him.
To be honest though, anything is possible with prime Tyson.
Eh i say everyone expect the brothers i mean there been long running champs. I say Tyson may lose because when he fought top guys he lost most of the time i go with Klitschko think size be a problem.
James Tillis frustrated the hell out of him and made him look inept at times so put him in with any boxer with quick hands!
Holy schooled him and Douglas broke him. So let's not make out he would run through everyone....
I'd favour him over everyone except K2 and maybe the 2 quick southpaws Byrd and Ibragimov.
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http://i.minus.com/ibuNzYavmzEh9n.gif
I firmly believe Tyson would destroy all of them, and he would of taken out a prime lennox lewis, he never would have beaten holyfield though.
Basically Vitali has been flawed and wobbled by lesser punchers than the bombs Tyson throws, and thats a severe understatement, not many of you have seen vitali kickboxing, his chin isnt iron, its solid, but not Tyson solid and tall fighters are tailor made for Tysons style.
Only someone with an exceptional chin or power could beat a prime Tyson e.g. holyfield ali for chin and perhaps a slugger like foreman could beat him too, buster dougless was a fluke 9/10 times Tyson would beat buster dougless.
I think a lot of you guys are really underestimating the Klitschkos. Yeah, Tyson was probably the greatest puncher in HW history (his combination of power + speed + punching variety is unmatched imo), but like any puncher, he needed to plant his feet.
You guys forget that he often had a lot of problems getting off and landing on big, tall guys who tied him up when he got close. Even 6'4'' bum Mike Jameson effectively tied Mike up and stifled his offense for the first few rounds. 6'4'' James Smith stifled his big punch largely, as did 6'5'' Tony Tucker.
Would Tyson beat the Klitschkos? Like I said, for me it's a toss up. But for all you who think Tyson would just walk in there and bomb them out because they caught punches from Corrie Sanders is just rediculous. The Klitschkos didn't dominate a division just by being big - they have the skill and the knowledge to back it up. They've been great at keep guys out of range and not allowed guys to get set.
Who did he beat that was comparable to prime lewis.Quote:
I firmly believe Tyson would destroy all of them, and he would of taken out a prime lennox lewis, he never would have beaten holyfield though.
Do u mean FLOORED? LOL. And Tyson has been brutally stopped by much lesser punchers than K2!Quote:
Basically Vitali has been flawed and wobbled by lesser punchers than the bombs Tyson throws, and thats a severe understatement, not many of you have seen vitali kickboxing, his chin isnt iron, its solid, but not Tyson solid and tall fighters are tailor made for Tysons style.
Whats your point? How did Tyson do against lewis' and Williams punches and how did VK do? Being wobbled is not comparable to being KTFO by Douglas or Holyfield or Williams! Lewis and Sanders are giant punchers and he took there best shots....his chin is iron!
And Douglas LOL.Quote:
Only someone with an exceptional chin or power could beat a prime Tyson e.g. holyfield ali for chin and perhaps a slugger like foreman could beat him too, buster dougless was a fluke 9/10 times Tyson would beat buster dougless.
And u never saw VK kickboxing. Kickboxing utilises legs aswell as punches it is a different sport. U probably don't even know about kickboxing anyway. Stop with the Pele Reid crap, he was brutalised by O Norris and J Francis both of whom Vitali stopped easily in boxing.
U criticise VK's chin yet make out Ali's was better! He was sparked out by 185lb CW Henry Cooper. Point me to were that happened with VK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGWTF
1. Vitali got knocked out by Pele Reid with a spinning kick. A punch from Tyson, Shavers, or Foreman doesn't hold a candle to a solid, flush kick from a professional kickboxer. You generate a lot more power with a kick than a punch. No one is taking that flush spinning kick from Pele Reid and staying conscious - I don't care how good your chin is. And that's not even mentioning the fact that Vitali was a kid back then, with a lanky "praying mantis" frame that wasn't yet built to take a huge forceful blow.
2. Tall fighters were tailor made for Tyson's style? Yeah, maybe guys like Dave Jaco. The truth is, like I mentioned he struggled with a complete can in 6'4'' Jameson, struggled offensively against 6'5'' Mitch Green as well as 6'4'' Bonecrusher Smith. Took 10 rounds to finish 6'5'' Ribalta, went the distance with 6'5'' Tony Tucker and took 7 rounds to finish 6'5'' Tyrell Biggs.Then of course he got destroyed by 6'4'' Buster Douglas and was given hell by 6'4'' Razor Ruddock.
That's prime Mike. If you want to go post-jail Mike, who were his losses? Holyfield of course beat his ass twice, then 6'5'' Lewis, 6'4'' Danny Williams and 6'6''/6'7'' Kevin Mcbride.
I don't know where you're getting this "tall fighters were made for Tyson" idea, because historically his WORST performances were against tall guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjTNaYPDrc
This is the technique that KO'd Vitali. There's not a HW bomber, past or present, who could even come close to generating the kind of force that a skilled kickboxer can generate his with legs. That shit would have knocked out Chuvalo, Hagler and Mccall on the same day.
They're not the same person, they have completely different strengths and weaknesses. It's impossible to know whether either could have beaten the same opposition (well it's proven they couldn't).Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Prime Tyson was fast and slick enough to crack thunderous punches onto both of their heads.
I'm not sure he'd beat Vitali, if Vitali took the early bombs there's a good chance his own output wears Tyson down, but I'm pretty certain Wlad would have crumbled. Anyone that unleashes an attack against Wlad has him under pressure, and there's not many in history that match Tyson for aggressive spurts.
Could be. I do know that neither Klitschko would just blow over like a card house along the lines of a David Jaco, like some posters seem to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
It's a tough fight for Mike and it's a tough fight for either Klitschko. Tyson had a lot of power and speed but hey, so does David Haye. Not saying David Haye = Tyson, but Haye found out quickly that it's easier said than done to just go in there and bomb out a Klitschko. We're talking about two guys with serious size, punching power, speed, educated jabs and superior HW foot movement and range. It's a tough fight for Mike.
The Terminator Klitschko model you're describing, which I agree is borderline unbeatable, is actually two seperate entities. The Klitschko's have different styles. Chins. Power. Speed. Movement. Stamina. Toughness. Bottle. Heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerCould be. I do know that neither Klitschko would just blow over like a card house along the lines of a David Jaco, like some posters seem to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
It's a tough fight for Mike and it's a tough fight for either Klitschko. Tyson had a lot of power and speed but hey, so does David Haye. Not saying David Haye = Tyson, but Haye found out quickly that it's easier said than done to just go in there and bomb out a Klitschko. We're talking about two guys with serious size, punching power, speed, educated jabs and superior HW foot movement and range. It's a tough fight for Mike.
If Corrie Sanders had never ironed out Wlad no-one would currently believe it. If Vitali hadn't taken those bombs from Lewis most fans would not currently believe he could have competed with him.
I'm just saying pressuring Wlad is a hell of a lot easier said than done, and if it was that easy it would have been done a hell of a lot more often. Wlad looked like absolute garbage against Corrie but that was 10 years ago. When talking about hypothetical matchups you have to take each guy at their best. I'm looking at the savage Tyson who wiped the floor with Michael Spinks like he was a journeyman, not the guy who looked average and got his shit pushed in by Buster Douglas.
Wlad isn't an easy guy to hit, especially when you have the reach of a middleweight.
One thing I have noticed over the years is that boxing fans have the shortest memories in sport. Not only short memories but also selective. Many tend to remember what a guy looked like on his worst day or the months of decline before he left.
I never liked Tyson at the time but that's not relevant. That guy was a machine even leading into his prime years. He started fighting in 1985 and by the end of 1986 he was already at the top of the food chain having fought 15 times in 85 and 13 times in 86 ending in a title. That's unprecedented now and in the mid eighties when it happened.
Tyson was unstoppable for a time. The mere sight of him coming to the ring with no socks, black no frill boots and shorts with a head hole cut through a terry cloth would have most of the guys mentioned asking for a fresh pair of Depends. Its at that very moment that many of Tysons opponents folded. The highlight reels of the man they watched replaying in their minds. I think Wlad falls into that category. Tyson simply gets underneath that jab and it does not end well for Wlad.Tyson probably had the best head movement in boxing history for a heavyweight and could bob and weave as good as any other.He also was extremely fast for a heavyweight.
Vitali could prove more difficult but damn he stands straight up and moves straight back with that kind of posture. He also carries his lead hand at his waist in the process. He gets away with that with slower and less aggressive fighters but its unclear whether he could cope with the Tyson continuous on-slot. Its probably a toss up as others have mentioned. Personally I don't see it going to the cards and I don't see Vitali making it out of the fight off his back in a slug fest.
I hope that's not aimed at me, I give Tyson full credit as being THE GREATEST puncher in HW history. And I acknowledge that he wasn't just a puncher, he has superior technique, head movement and defenstive skills to go along with the two nuclear bombs on the ends of his arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
But the Klitschkos have never gotten the proper respect they deserve for the talent they have. And people are still stuck on Wladimir getting run over by Corrie Sanders 10 years back. Under the guidance of Manny Steward, Wladimir improved leaps and bounds since then. While his chin is still a question mark, I don't see any evidence that would suggest he would cower from Tyson or "beat himself" like Michael Spinks did.
When it comes to Tyson, people only remember the KO clips. They forget that just like every other boxer, he had his faults, flaws, and he was given trouble by a more than one opponent. And like I pointed out, his best performances WERE NOT against tall guys with big reach and boxing skill.
Remember that for 10 years, guys have seen the Corrie/Wlad fight as well as the first Brewster fight. If he had an awful chin, people know about it. Yet no one has been able to do it since. And it's not like the guys he fought weren't capable. David Haye is as powerful and explosive a puncher as we've seen in the HW divison for a long time. Wlad has very few holes in his game and leaves very little oppotunity for opponents. To believe that Tyson would just go in there and bomb him out, no sweat, is just unrealistic to me.
No it was not. Simply a general statement of fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI hope that's not aimed at me,Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Well Tyson was great but he did fight a lot of cans some of which is did not crush right away. I mean when your best win is Spinks who did not fight any one worth a shit after winning the title. Then Holmes who was out of prime and had not fought for 2 years was coming off some loses as well. Tyson was great but when he stepped up the completion he was facing he lost bad and one of them who was Holyfeild was older and had hart problems. People make excuse more for Tyson then any other fighter more then Ali even i just dont get it.
Okie doke. I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Granted David Haye doesnt have the chin or the cojohnes to pull off that tactic. At least tyson would give it an honest go. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI hope that's not aimed at me, I give Tyson full credit as being THE GREATEST puncher in HW history. And I acknowledge that he wasn't just a puncher, he has superior technique, head movement and defenstive skills to go along with the two nuclear bombs on the ends of his arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
But the Klitschkos have never gotten the proper respect they deserve for the talent they have. And people are still stuck on Wladimir getting run over by Corrie Sanders 10 years back. Under the guidance of Manny Steward, Wladimir improved leaps and bounds since then. While his chin is still a question mark, I don't see any evidence that would suggest he would cower from Tyson or "beat himself" like Michael Spinks did.
When it comes to Tyson, people only remember the KO clips. They forget that just like every other boxer, he had his faults, flaws, and he was given trouble by a more than one opponent. And like I pointed out, his best performances WERE NOT against tall guys with big reach and boxing skill.
Remember that for 10 years, guys have seen the Corrie/Wlad fight as well as the first Brewster fight. If he had an awful chin, people know about it. Yet no one has been able to do it since. And it's not like the guys he fought weren't capable. David Haye is as powerful and explosive a puncher as we've seen in the HW divison for a long time. Wlad has very few holes in his game and leaves very little oppotunity for opponents. To believe that Tyson would just go in there and bomb him out, no sweat, is just unrealistic to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Well..........
Not really. Remember Tyson's flying left hooks, where he practically lifted himself off the ground with the power they were thrown. Sure... he planted his feet. But the delivery of these shots was so-o-o quick, the opponent had little time to react with defense. Tyson's short arms and natural quickness gave him so much hand speed... and with power... that it basically neutralized a lot of bigger men's defenses.
But I think it's a mistake to lump in Vitali with Wladimir. Some say they would both lose to Tyson... some say both would beat Tyson. I'm with the group that says Tyson would annilihate Wlad, but would have a much harder time against Vitali. Tyson might still win... but it's by no means a foregone conclusion.
Vitali's chin was in fact a lot more resistant than Wlad's. That is an undisputable truth. Yeah he was slow and ponderous... but he's never been in trouble and much less knocked down or KO'ed.
Notice that in those isolated gifs of Tillis doing reasonably well against Tyson (that you probably jacked from a user named "Tezel" of another boxing forum) that he was using UPPERCUTS
A punch that NEITHER Klit throws, especially Wlad.
Neither Klit would survive ... because nethier of them can fight inside ... Wladimir was KTFO by Sanders while attempting to clinch ... if he can't handle Sanders speed then what about Tyson who had speed that was off the charts ?Vitali and Wladimir are both bothered by speed ... as show in the Sanders fights.
Tyson was scoring KOs in the middle of someone trying to clinch him. Remember the second Bruno fight? Tyson KOed Bruno while he tried to clinch him.
Vitalis chin will only last for so long ... Tyson was KOing guys who had iron chins and had never been KOed before. Either that or his face would fall apart from the dynamite in Tyson's gloves. Tyson wouldn't allow him to control the distance and then Vitali would be an open target for Tyson to explode on.
Vitali could see Lewis's punches, which is why he could take them but he wouldn't see Tyson's, who would be throwing from every angle and in bunches with lightning hand speed.
If u want a legend using leg shots try Andy Hug not Pele Reid:
http://i35.tinypic.com/ziqd93.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3002/andyhug02.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
1. Who cares if they can't fight on the inside, I doubt either of them would attempt to fight on the inside against 5'10'', 70" reach Mike Tyson.
2. Bringing up the Sanders fight is rediculous because, as anyone can plainly see, that was 10 years ago and Wlad has improved 10-fold since then. You have to compare best at best. If you want to bring up their worst fights, why not look at how Tyson ate Buster Douglas' jab for the entire fight before getting sparked out.
3. Explain why you don't think Vitali or Wlad could survive Tyson when guys like Mitch Green, Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker were able to? We're those guys superior to the Klitschko's in ANY concievable way?
4. Bothered by speed... both guys have fought guys with quick hands to great success. Corrie managed to land a couple of good blows against Vitali, but ended up taking a monumental beating.
WK KO'd Peter in the rematch with the uppercut. He also utilised it in the Thompson fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
Watch the Mercer fight. That shows his full arsenal too.
Steward changed his risk profile from high to low. In the process of doing so, he basically shut down a lot of the inside fighting. The end result is that Wlad keeps winning, but his fights are not as exciting as they used to be. In the case of VK check the Danny Williams fight. He threw a double uppercut then rightcross to finish it.
http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/OLNawlOt77w/mqdefault.jpg
:)
I think some people should go back and check out some of the less memorable fights of Mike Tyson, and realize not everybody went down as hard and as quick as Michael Spinks.
Mike Jameson... 15-16 career record with only 4 KOs... so basically a big journeyman with no real punching power. Look at the trouble he gave Mike by smothering and holding when Mike came inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97dBvWuZg58
Tony Tucker... SOLID HW, I think this is one of Mike's most underrated wins because Tony could FIGHT. At times really effectively fought from range, landing flush jabs and straight rights and tying Mike up on the inside. Moved well and really limited Mike's offense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1a48q5HtlE
Mitch Green... golden gloves winner but mediocre pro. Again we see Mike tied up on the inside by a taller fighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygQ0nsLoTbM
And so on and so forth... these are guys who are all shorter, weaker and far less skilled than the Klitshcko's. Wlad and Vitali have shown they can tie guys up on the inside, and what effect is that going to have on Mike with a 245-250lb giant leaning his weight on him in the inside?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjBpat8Y83M
Ruddock took him to hell & back twice! None of these men are remotely comparable to K2. Most people on this forum seem to think both Klitschko's would lose to basically every solid Heavyweight of the past 80 or 90 years LOL. Truth is probably the opposite...
Let's quote a trainer who has eyewitnessed both Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko:
Question:
"You have worked with a lot of world class fighters. Is Tyson the hardest puncher you have ever seen or should I say felt?"
Freddie Roach (trainer of both Mike Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko)
"Punch for punch I think Klitschko probably hits a little bit harder but Mike’s much more explosive."
Larry Merchant about Tommy Brooks (trainer of both Mike Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko)
"Tommy Brooks... perhaps paid one of the highest compliments to Klitschko, when he said, his hands are faster than Tyson's were."
Emanuel Steward (HOF trainer):
"That's a tremendous compliment, especially when you consider the man is 6'6""
Yes mike had a good uppercut. But the hook speed and the uppercut get less and less relevant the more your opponents get out of reach. Thus such "surprise punches" come especially in close-range situations and therefore there is basically little chance to surprise the Klitschkos since they have perfected the skill of keeping opponents at bay.