Boxing started its sharp decline after Mike Tyson left the sport?
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Boxing started its sharp decline after Mike Tyson left the sport?
The decline started when he joined boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
Boxing hit an all time low when a rapist on parole committed GBH in public and got away with it in the name of money.
Probally someone with tunnel vision and blinded by the allure, legend and or myth of a single man making the sport ???
Despite his critics the Golden Boy was a PPV saviour and he didn't duck anybody, i think Boxing took a noesdive after the fall of DLH. Floyd should've taken up the mantle, but the Pacman fiasco of the past few years has been more puzzling than anything else. Boxing simply doesn't have enough stars? In the sensational 70's you had at one time Ali, Foreman, Norton and Frazier in the heavyweight division, you had Bob Foster, Carlos Monzon, Jose Napoles and Roberto Duran as long standing champions, then came the electrifying 80's with Sanchez, Gomez, Pryor, Arguello, Benitez, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Tyson ruled the heavies. The 90's with Chavez, Whitaker, Trinidad, DLH, Tszyu, The Prince (who turned into a toad) Floyd begins, Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis. Where are the charasmatic champions of today? Boxing has taken a huge nosedive these past 7-8 years.
What decline? Do you mean decline of boxing in the USA?
It could be argued American boxing was never quite the same post Ali, but Leonard, Hearns, Hagler and Duran along with Tyson plastered over the structural faults for the 80s...
Boxing has with the full of the 'Iron Curtain' and the growth of the Latino market changed massively in the last 20 years in the USA, with the 'white' population generally losing interest.
in Britain the loss of terrestrial TV has cost the sport. But also the local rivalries and local heroes have really decreased costing the small hall promoters too boot.
But boxing has arguably not ever been bigger in Germany, Mexico and the Philippines...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
no I would not agree. I think boxing started declining about 1990 after Douglas beat him. You had a good young Lewis and Holyfield there, and a few exciting fights with Bowe, T Morrison and Razor Ruddock but the 90s then only had 3 or 4 exciting heavies, while the 70s had a dozen, 80s had Holmes, M Spinks, Cooney, Tyson, Qawi, Foreman 2, Mike Weaver, Witherspoon, etc
I say after Douglas beat Tyson it (heavyweight US boxing that is) went south.
Boxing should have stars but they do not necessarily have to be great fighters. ATG are rare and should be appreciated when they come. Oscar was not an ATG but had the guts to take on the very best. Floyd fights great but is not a great fighter because of his inactivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Boxings decline started after he went to prison. There is no doubt Tyson being unfairly convicted and sent away for no reason is one of the biggest tragedies in the worlds history.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
There's a good chance that he was innocent, if he was then it's a great misjustice... I don't know about it being one of the greatest tradgedies in world history mind you. ;)
boxing is on the up what are you on about
There is an old saying that boxing is only as popular/good as its heavyweight champion and let's be honest wlad may be consistent by he is never going to reach out to the non-boxing public watching him fight is to dull
The thing with boxing is that it isn't a entity upon itself or a brand (like the UFC), so it's level of popularity is determined by it's current "superstars" and how much interest and revenue they can generate not only from within the boxing world, but from mainstream media and the general public.
Unfortunately, no one ever REALLY succeeded Tyson in HW boxing who could generate near the interest. Lewis gained a lot of steam by KOing Tyson, but he retired shortly after and never really passed the torch. So I would say yeah, heavyweight boxing definitely declined after Tyson. Not in terms of skill, but definitely in interest and revenue.
I wouldn't say boxing in general went on a decline. You forget that the current P4P champ is THE biggest earner in the history of the sport, and guys like Pacquiao are not far behind.
I like this comment. Although obviously it may not appear to be true in retrosoect.Quote:
Originally Posted by YIDDLE
I think the promoters inability to make and promote fights/ fighters has been on a decline for many decades now. There's no myth in fighters now.
I one read a historical account of boxing from the 19th century onwards and the stuff these promoters and their fighters got up to was amaizing.
Maybe TV networks are to blame in more ways than one?
Plus there are so many ways to spoil a good fight, spoil a fighter etc it's too easy to loose interest.
It's always Tyson :rolleyes:
Boxing is fine, it's just getting used to new things. Larry Holmes didn't captivate everyone while he was champion either because people thought of Ali the way you guys are talking about Tyson. Tyson was exciting but while on the verge of a HUGE match, I mean mind bogglingly huge matchup vs Holyfield, Mike Tyson got his shit handed to him and that kind of thing is what has hurt boxing. The stars haven't aligned to where we can have 2 undefeated heavyweights clash for the title in a massive showdown like Ali-Frazier I, the torch hasn't been passed all that well, the "next big thing" & "next big fight" either never materializes or someone fucks it up. We've gone YEARS without huge fights, yes we get exciting wins, but we've not had the Immovable Object vs the Unstoppable Force kinds of fights on the biggest stages.
Boxing needs their stars to fight like Corrales-Castillo & Brewster-Liakhovich, that's what boxing needs. Less talking, more action....this ain't the WWE the boxing fans want skill, passion, and determination. We want to be emotionally tied to the results, we want blood, sacrifice, heart, and at the moment the guys with that are either too good for everyone else, or doing that compromises their records. The last great fight I saw that just can't get enough credit is Vitali vs Lewis.....not having a rematch for that fight hurt boxing because it was a result that left an open ending. PPV sales of that fight would have been enormous. Also all these promoters fight more outside the ring then they allow their fighters to fight IN the ring Top Rank vs Golden Boy, Sauerland & DKP vs K2....it's ever so frustrating as a fan to know for a fact that Top Rank fighters won't fight Golden Boy fighters, that is also killing the sport. Professional fighters need to just sack up to their management and take the reigns of their careers, you're the key cogs in the machine if fighter X wants to fight Fighter Y then the promoters should sit down and make the deal happen & if they can't come to an agreement then an independent 3rd party mediator should structure the deal.
For me it is a yes he was the last fighter I truly loved, I like Hatton, Cotto and Manny but not to the extent I loved Tyson.
Great fights have nothing to do with selling PPV, it's purely down to the star power of the fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Castillo-Corrales II was a massive PPV flop (150,000 buys) even though the first fight won "fight of the year" accolades all over the shop.
That Lennox-Vitali bill was PPV until Tyson dropped off the card.
Now I've heard just about everything and been truly surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseBoxings decline started after he went to prison. There is no doubt Tyson being unfairly convicted and sent away for no reason is one of the biggest tragedies in the worlds history.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
Whatever you are drinking, snorting, injecting or smoking please stop because it is liquifying your brain.
Your statement is one of the most misogynistic I've ever heard. Tyson was convicted of rape. If you think he didn't get a fair trial, you were not paying attention.
#1 I call BS on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
#2 Corrales-Castillo II was a flop because Jose Luis Castillo didn't bother to make weight & right after that Corrales was guilty of the same thing...very unprofessional
#3 Lewis was originally scheduled to fight Kirk Johnson & Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell...I didn't even know Tyson was even going to be on the card, but I knew that it was by no means a stellar lineup.
#4 99% of the fans wanted to see Vitali-Lewis II because it was a good competitive match and both big dudes came out swinging for the fences....they fought like the title meant something to them & they wanted to entertain the crowd which they did...thoroughly
I think professionalism is the last thing the general public cares about when it comes to the question of whether or not to buy a PPV. Tyson was a convicted rapist and bit a guy's ear off in the ring and he drew well up until he retired. Floyd is also a convicted felon, a guy who more obnoxious than anyone, who has dropped people while they were looking away and he failed to make weight for JMM. But he's the biggest PPV draw in boxing history.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
It's all about the star power. When it comes to JLC/Corrales, all us boxing fans knew it was gonna be a war, but the John Q Public never heard of either of them.
....the rematch wasn't a war it was a slaughter mainly due to the weight issue. People bought the later Tyson fights not because they knew who he was they didn't know what the fuck he was going to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI think professionalism is the last thing the general public cares about when it comes to the question of whether or not to buy a PPV. Tyson was a convicted rapist and bit a guy's ear off in the ring and he drew well up until he retired. Floyd is also a convicted felon, a guy who more obnoxious than anyone, who has dropped people while they were looking away and he failed to make weight for JMM. But he's the biggest PPV draw in boxing history.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
It's all about the star power. When it comes to JLC/Corrales, all us boxing fans knew it was gonna be a war, but the John Q Public never heard of either of them.
Corrales got caught with a perfect shot and went to sleep
Agreed. That was one of the biggest shams ever. I think there was a certain amount of decline because of it but imo the much bigger decline started when the took boxing off network tv, The final nail imo was ppv.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseBoxings decline started after he went to prison. There is no doubt Tyson being unfairly convicted and sent away for no reason is one of the biggest tragedies in the worlds history.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
Why do people think Tyson was innocent? He might have been, I don't know the details of the case. Just wondering why so many people buy into his innocence, given his documented past of sexual abuse.
Yeah boxing leaving NBC was crucial, but also Boxing leaving USA was a hit...USA had Tuesday Night Fights and they had some really good fighters come through there. All the big time names fought on USA early or late in their careers...that was a big thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
UFC has gone the opposite direction basically staking out Spike, FX, Fuel, & Fox....brilliant, brilliant move by them & they'll prosper for it. Boxing can come back around, but it's swimming against the current at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong#1 I call BS on thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
#2 Corrales-Castillo II was a flop because Jose Luis Castillo didn't bother to make weight & right after that Corrales was guilty of the same thing...very unprofessional
#3 Lewis was originally scheduled to fight Kirk Johnson & Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell...I didn't even know Tyson was even going to be on the card, but I knew that it was by no means a stellar lineup.
#4 99% of the fans wanted to see Vitali-Lewis II because it was a good competitive match and both big dudes came out swinging for the fences....they fought like the title meant something to them & they wanted to entertain the crowd which they did...thoroughly
1. ......
2. This is very naive - a) to think the general public give a fuck about a few pounds overweight is ridiculous b) even more ridiculous is to think the success of a PPV is determined 24 hours before the event. They spend months selling and hyping a fight. So you think everyone that buys PPV waits until the weigh-in and orders at the last minute? If that's the case (and it's so silly I shouldn't be asking a question) - how did Floyd have a spectacular PPV success with Marquez when he weighed in above the limit?
3. Proves my point. Tyson on the bill it was PPV. Tyson off the bill it was not PPV.
4. Lewis-Vitali was a great fight. However, neither were a PPV attraction. If the fight was such a big deal, one where Vitali crossed over to the American mainstream, then how come he didn't become a big star? That was 10 years ago.
Floyd can fight no-names and do massive numbers. Tyson fought no-names and did massive numbers. Oscar fought no-names and did massive numbers. David Haye and Ricky Hatton, in Britain, fought no-names and did massive numbers. Wlad sells thousands of tickets in Germany. The general public buy into THE fighter not the fight. That's all i'm saying. Fact.
I thought it was worse than dropping the bomb on JapanQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Not making weight meant it wasn't a title fight
Who was Tyson scheduled to fight?
Vitali was making a good name for himself... the rematch most certainly would have been PPV as would Vitali-Tyson but Tyson couldn't make it past Williams who nobody knew of. Had it not been for injuries and Kalle Sauerland Vitali would have been a PPV staple. Vitali-Arreola could have been bigger if Cris put down the fork for 2 minutes.
lets face it
K2 destroyed boxing ... they've made it unwatchable
people would rather watch Tyson spar at his current age than watch a K2 fight
I am getting the impression that you are being sarcastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI thought it was worse than dropping the bomb on JapanQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Indeed I remember looking forward to Abc's Wild World of Sports. Practically every fight I watched on the networks for free back then would have been ppv todayQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYeah boxing leaving NBC was crucial, but also Boxing leaving USA was a hit...USA had Tuesday Night Fights and they had some really good fighters come through there. All the big time names fought on USA early or late in their careers...that was a big thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
UFC has gone the opposite direction basically staking out Spike, FX, Fuel, & Fox....brilliant, brilliant move by them & they'll prosper for it. Boxing can come back around, but it's swimming against the current at the moment.
We have the same problem when it all went to sky with Benn and Eubanks and the BBC and ITV giving up. Hatton was the closest big star on the satellite network but even he gained his mainstream support through terrestrial channels as has Khan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Over here I think it started with Leonard/Hearns and what was then called closed circuit TV. Ray then went on to be the first fighter to earn 100 million in a career.
Well why don't you whine about itQuote:
Originally Posted by TysonBomb
El Kabong you were away when TysonBomb joined the forum, you two will get on like a house on fire. ;)
Please don't make this a Tyson v Klitschko thread.
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
I know the type.... its like Mike Tyson invented boxing :rolleyes: and God himself couldn't beat Tyson in his mythical "prime" :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
not the conventional klit vs. tyson threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
i mean, come on ... tyson eating breakfast is more entertaining than a klit fight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdsvQO5MKAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVIwz8rP-g4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ollo3wYILAI