President of Venezuela died at the age of 58 from cancer. He was cheered by many and reviled by many so I'm sure opinions of him will vary. I'm curious as to what the official White House statement will be. Anyway, condolences to his family.
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President of Venezuela died at the age of 58 from cancer. He was cheered by many and reviled by many so I'm sure opinions of him will vary. I'm curious as to what the official White House statement will be. Anyway, condolences to his family.
Chavez did a lot for the less well off within his society. He wasn't perfect, but for a contemporary politician, there was a lot to respect. Chavez was a saint in comparison to the likes of Bush, Putin, Kim Jong-il et al. South America is all the poorer for his loss.
Hugo Chavez was a paper tiger, he would rattle his little toy saber to look like a big man to his people (oooh scary scary :rolleyes: ) but he was just a punk. He loved the United States because we bought their oil and no matter what he THOUGHT he was going to do he knew that it was a good thing to not piss us off too much.
As for his governing :shakehead: , I assume miles will champion the guy as some sort of awesome dude that helped the poor. And I assume that because miles would champion anyone that speaks ill of the United States as miles is a hateful dick and that's about it. Under Chavez the middle class fled Venezuela like rats off a sinking ship. In 2011 the intentional homicide rate per 100,000 population was 45.1 compared with 25.0 just twelve years earlier :-\ ...double digit inflation is hitting that country hard now as well.
Chavez changed the face of Venezuela. Before Chavez it was a banana republic with oil. The economy, the land and the oil had been owned and run by a small roup of families. Chavez gave huge chunks of the land to the people, brought electricity, education and healthcare to millions who didn't have it before and basically was the first guy to share Venezuela's oil wealth with the people.
Venezuela isn't perfect and Chavez didn't solve its problems but it was never going to go from banana republic to Switzerland in a few years. The energy boom brought huge wealth to Venezuela and it went from already having the highest murder rate in the world to an even higher one, but inflation has been really low at times depite the petrodollars and is still lower than when Chavez took office. But hey, the guy changed the face of the country. It'll never be the same again.
I'm surprised if miles & Kirkland aren't openly weeping as Chavez was a socialist & hated the Jews & Israel
Chavez lead a country rich with natural resources and NEVER improved it. Think of the oil the United States bought from Venezuela, you would assume that the kind of money needed to buy what America needs would be substantial but did the poor people that Hugo championed benefit from Chavez's dictatorship????
NO
27.4% of the people live below the poverty line (2012)
26.1% Inflation (2012)
-4.9% of GDP budget deficet (2011) and grew to about -5.2% of GDP in 2012 despite record oil prices.
Meanwhile Chavez leaves his family an estate valued at around 2 Billion dollars....yes, champion the poor & line your own pockets. Just another 2 bit thug dictator
Rest in Peace, he was a Great Man and beloved Leader of his people which is why their entire nation will mourn for days to come, and will always revere and remember him. He wouldn't be bullied by the Americans is all, so in America, the gov't-controlled media will put their spin on his reign.
The media is liberal and they are mourning him....he was a despot plain and simple
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I believe in being open-minded and.... I may not agree with Lyle on a lot of things.... but I can personally vouch for this statement. I've personally known many middle-class and professional Venezuelans who have left everything behind while fleeing the Chavez government. Many have relocated to Puerto Rico, where we speak the same language (Spanish), and exist under the American system. What better measure of a leader's worth than the opinion of his own people?
Chavez may have brought a measure of prosperity to Venezuela, but he was a loose cannon. What was even worse... he very much "discouraged" political opposition, if you know what I mean. ;)
Chavez's only redeeming quality was that he hated George Bush. ;D
But other than that, there were definitely more minuses than pluses.
He "hated" Bush but still took American money.
Chavez ripped off the poor while he grew rich SAYING he would help them....terrible person and I'm happy he's dead
Most would dislike a US political elite who attempted to have them murdered which was exactly the script as it has been for so many leaders globally who have had the audacity to disagree with Washington. That is what made him truly turn his back. Of course, most Americans have no idea about what their country really gets up to as they live in bloated ignorance.
Oil is a commodity and you sell it to anyone and if you redistribute some of that wealth then that is a good thing. I find it absurd that an American person can talk about wealth inequality. Are you fucking kidding me? You have a half a nation on food stamps and a corrupt corporate and financial sector free from prosecution. Oh, but Chavez is evil personified! Homicides are through the roof too they say. So America is clearly a saintly place with no murder issues and everyone has a level playing field. I'm glad we are clear on that.
People will mourn the loss of Chavez, wait to see how many mourn the passing of Bush and Blair. These blowhard wobbly arses are disgusting. Everything else is wrong and their own ways are surely better than any alternatives and yet they themselves are sinking through the floor like the Bush's in Florida.
Chavez just seemed like a fucking buffoon to me, isn't Venezuela still pretty much a poor, 3rd world nation despite it's huge oil reserves?Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekked
As for what the White House will say, i'm sure it will be some glittery diplomatic horseshit, Obama is a socialist cut from the same cloth as Chavez.
Venezuela under Chavez :
Mark Weisbrot of CEPR points out that real GDP per capita in Venezuela expanded by 24 percent since 2004. In the 20 years prior to Chávez, real GDP per person actually fell. Venezuela has low foreign public debt, about 28 percent of GDP, and the interest on it is only 2 percent of GDP. Weisbrot writes: "From 2004-2011, extreme poverty was reduced by about two-thirds. Poverty was reduced by about one-half, and this measures only cash income. It does not count the access to health care that millions now have, or the doubling of college enrollment - with free tuition for many. Access to public pensions tripled. Unemployment is half of what it was when Chávez took office." Venezuela has reduced unemployment from 20 percent to 7 percent.
Venezuela is making rapid progress on other measures too. It has a high human development index and a low and shrinking index of inequality. Wealth inequality in Venezuela is half of what it is in the United States. It is rated "the fifth-happiest nation in the world" by Gallup. And Pepe Escobar writes that,"No less than 22 public universities were built in the past 10 years. The number of teachers went from 65,000 to 350,000. Illiteracy has been eradicated. There is an ongoing agrarian reform." Venezuela has undertaken significant steps to build food security through land reform and government assistance. New homes are being built, health clinics are opening in underserved areas and cooperatives for agriculture and business are growing.
Venezuelans are very happy with their democracy. On average, they gave their own democracy a score of seven out of ten while the Latin American average was 5.8. Meanwhile, 57 percent of Venezuelans reported being happy with their democracy compared to an average for Latin American countries of 38 percent, according to a poll conducted by Latinobarometro. While 81 percent voted in the last Venezuelan election, only 57.5 percent voted in the recent US election.
This is worth reading to give you an idea of what the country was like before Chavez, peace be upon him, took power.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/1...tury-democracy
Let's not forget Chavez was a democratically-elected leader and was returned to power several times with massive majorities. The only reason Americans have even heard of him (who is President of Ecuador wothout googling? Yeah) is because he booted US oil companies out of the country because they were paying buttons for the oil via contracts they'd negotiated with previous corrupt leaders.
October 19, 2006 00:04 EDT
Oct. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's plan to take control of oil production joint ventures run by Exxon Mobil Corp. and ConocoPhillips may lead to defaults on $1.6 billion in bonds.
[.]
Chavez has already changed the terms of agreements that cover the four ventures located in the Orinoco Belt, where crude is extracted from deposits of heavy oil. In October 2004, he raised their royalty rates to 16.66 percent from 1 percent. The fee was raised again this year, to 33.3 percent. The four will also face a higher income tax rate of 50 percent starting Jan. 1, up from 34 percent.
Chavez Risks $1.6 Billion Bond Default in Oil Venture Takeovers - Bloomberg
So American oil companies wanted Chavez gone and the liberal US media started the job, turning an ioncredibly popular democratically elected lesder into a dictator. I'm surprised that during the Bush administration we didn't discover he had weapons of mass destruction.
@Kirkland Laing,
If I could, i'd piss on Chavez' grave, as well as any other South American anti-American dictator. What makes Chavez any different from Cuba's Castro, North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or any other sworn enemy of the U.S?
...ummm he "wanted to help the poor" ...DUH! :vd: it's completely erroneous that the man simply pocketed the cash from nationalizing oil fields, he wanted to help the poor.....he had good intentions man...and by God that counts for something eh comrade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
How I Spent My Time in Hugo Chávez's Venezuela
An interesting read from a former radical
What you've got to remember is, it's all Bush's and/or America's fault that Chavez stole 100's of millions that never funneled down to the poor. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...ummm he "wanted to help the poor" ...DUH! :vd: it's completely erroneous that the man simply pocketed the cash from nationalizing oil fields, he wanted to help the poor.....he had good intentions man...and by God that counts for something eh comrade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
.....BILLIONS....2 of themQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
Hopefully Venezuela will get a new less corrupt leader, with an IQ above room temperature.
It will be interesting to see if the VP is able to have the same cult of personality
Hand picked successors sometimes lose out to ambitious people waiting for their shot. Trotsky and Stalin come to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorCharlie
Ooops.... em-barr-assing........
Citgo lowers US flag to half staff in Chavez tribute
APA - Venezuela Bans Alcohol for Period of Chavez Mourning
I guess they want people openly weeping in the streets....this is inhumane!!!
For one thing he won a popular election with a gigantic majority and then got re-elected every four years. As a general rule dictators don't hold democratic elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
And like I said, Chavez is only known to Americans because he tried to get something close to a fair price -- more than 1%! -- of the oil they were pumping out of the country. If he'd left the oil situation alone you'd never have heard of him.
I'm not sure Chavez stole hundreds of millions. He certainly set his family up with various lucrative business opportunities in the part of Venezuela he comes from. And there was defnitely massive corruption in the Chavez government. But this is Venezuela we're talking about, a banana republic that used to be run by a few dozen families who used to keep all the dough, it's not going to become Switzerland in five minutes is it? Two-thirds of Venezuelans didn't even have electricity when Chavez came to power. Now the country has electricity, education, healthcare and so on. That would never have happened under the previous regimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axWhat you've got to remember is, it's all Bush's and/or America's fault that Chavez stole 100's of millions that never funneled down to the poor. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...ummm he "wanted to help the poor" ...DUH! :vd: it's completely erroneous that the man simply pocketed the cash from nationalizing oil fields, he wanted to help the poor.....he had good intentions man...and by God that counts for something eh comrade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
So you're unaccountably hating a guy who did absolutely immense good in his own country because of stuff you read in the liberal media. It's amazing how powerful those guys are.
Why do you think, me Lyle and Charlie, et al, are just parroting what the liberal media barfs up, and not expressing our own opinions? That's seems especially lame, since none of us are liberals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingI'm not sure Chavez stole hundreds of millions. He certainly set his family up with various lucrative business opportunities in the part of Venezuela he comes from. And there was defnitely massive corruption in the Chavez government. But this is Venezuela we're talking about, a banana republic that used to be run by a few dozen families who used to keep all the dough, it's not going to become Switzerland in five minutes is it? Two-thirds of Venezuelans didn't even have electricity when Chavez came to power. Now the country has electricity, education, healthcare and so on. That would never have happened under the previous regimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axWhat you've got to remember is, it's all Bush's and/or America's fault that Chavez stole 100's of millions that never funneled down to the poor. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...ummm he "wanted to help the poor" ...DUH! :vd: it's completely erroneous that the man simply pocketed the cash from nationalizing oil fields, he wanted to help the poor.....he had good intentions man...and by God that counts for something eh comrade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
So you're unaccountably hating a guy who did absolutely immense good in his own country because of stuff you read in the liberal media. It's amazing how powerful those guys are.
As for hating Chavez, not really, I just have no respect for cock-waving dictators who are sworn enemies of the U.S.
OK, allow me to get this straight. Venezuela is a "Banana Republic", There was "Massive corruption in the Chavez government", but there he was "democratically elected"? So this guy in a corrupt country with a corrupt regime got elected and it was 100% on the up & up :-\
As for the economy....5 Ways Chavez Has Destroyed the Venezuelan Economy - ABC News
Like most of the guys in Latin, Central, & South America Chavez loved to talk a big game, but in reality with his nation dependent on exporting vast amounts of oil he didn't want to step out of line with the United States. He was never going to attack us or anything like that, he might try to subvert us he attempted to do so with the Occupy Wall Street movement but he was 0 threat to the United States and he knew it, he just wanted to look like a big guy to his people so they wouldn't go Il Duce on his ass and string his fat ass up on a light pole....they DO have light poles in Venezuela verdad?
At the risk of being told I'm "sitting on the fence", here's an article that talks of both the good and the bad of Hugo Chavez. For the record, and as I've stated before, I personally met several professional, middle-class Venezuelans who emigrated to Puerto Rico... who had more bad stories to tell than good.
Hugo Chavez dies of cancer: a mixed legacy for Venezuela | Left Foot Forward
Please tell us some of these stories....Kirkland might learn somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Over the years I've had the opportunity to work with several Venezuelans who have emigrated to Puerto Rico. This one older lady in particular was very well educated and had a very good job at a pharmaceutical facility there. In coming to Puerto Rico, she left houses and family behind. She was pretty disdainful of Chavez, and I think it mostly had to do with the intolerance shown by his government regarding opposing viewpoints, as well as anyone, or any organization he perceived as a threat to his power. And it was well-known that his burning desire was to become President for life. He won a referendum to eliminate term limits.
But maybe it's a bit like Cuba, from which coincidentally Fidel Castro was one of his very best friends. Most if not all the people who have left Cuba hate Castro... and maybe it's the same with Venezuela. Those who have remained either have been unable to leave, or maybe they have genuine affection for their respective leaders.
Come on Lyle you know better than that. Kirk doesn't watch videos, read articles and he damn sure isn't interested in anecdotal statements. If it isn't from George Soro's prescribed reading list it doesn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongPlease tell us some of these stories....Kirkland might learn somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Another interesting article on Hugo Chavez.
Hugo Chavez: Great Timing, Awful Leadership - The Daily Beast
What I'm saying is the media isn't liberal. Anybody that goes against US corporate interests is demonised by all US media. Thus Cyhavez, a democratically elected leader becomes a dictator who is a deadly enemy of the United States. Again, if he hadn't fucked with the 1% oil thing you'd never have heard of him. Without googling, who was the previous Venezuelan leader? How much US media coverage did he get? Who is the current president of Peru? Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axWhy do you think, me Lyle and Charlie, et al, are just parroting what the liberal media barfs up, and not expressing our own opinions? That's seems especially lame, since none of us are liberals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingI'm not sure Chavez stole hundreds of millions. He certainly set his family up with various lucrative business opportunities in the part of Venezuela he comes from. And there was defnitely massive corruption in the Chavez government. But this is Venezuela we're talking about, a banana republic that used to be run by a few dozen families who used to keep all the dough, it's not going to become Switzerland in five minutes is it? Two-thirds of Venezuelans didn't even have electricity when Chavez came to power. Now the country has electricity, education, healthcare and so on. That would never have happened under the previous regimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axWhat you've got to remember is, it's all Bush's and/or America's fault that Chavez stole 100's of millions that never funneled down to the poor. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...ummm he "wanted to help the poor" ...DUH! :vd: it's completely erroneous that the man simply pocketed the cash from nationalizing oil fields, he wanted to help the poor.....he had good intentions man...and by God that counts for something eh comrade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
So you're unaccountably hating a guy who did absolutely immense good in his own country because of stuff you read in the liberal media. It's amazing how powerful those guys are.
As for hating Chavez, not really, I just have no respect for cock-waving dictators who are sworn enemies of the U.S.
There's corruption in every economy. There are corrupt politicians in the United States and the government is entirly corrupted by corporate money but they still manage to hold democratic elections. So why can't Venezuela.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Seeing as, like every other fucking subject on the planet, I've forgotten more about Venezuala than you know, let's look at the link you link. We'll go through it step by step and make it a learing experience for you. Firstly, they used a graph! See the end of growth and subsequent huge drop in GDP that started in 2000, one year after Chavez took office. What caused that? Why do you think it isn't mentioned in the article?
You want a graph Princess?
http://scodal.com/a/saved4/fucksigive.jpg
There you go sweetheart.
So up til 2000 you would tell me that Caracas was NOT just growing into a large shanty town but that George W. Bush destroyed those peoples' lives too.....you're pathetic......oh no you're not THAT'S George W. Bush's fault........what a fucking cunt you are, same old shit every fucking time "I've forgotten more about Venezuela .....:blahbla:" It must be uncomfortable to have your head that far up your own ass.....but hey like I said Chavez isn't a big deal, he was a huge talker but he never made a move against the US.
I thought it was cute when he called President Bush "Senor Peligroso"..."Mr. Danger" ....yeah he would have been dangerous had Huge-O made any military move
Check this graph out Kirk:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThere's corruption in every economy. There are corrupt politicians in the United States and the government is entirly corrupted by corporate money but they still manage to hold democratic elections. So why can't Venezuela.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Seeing as, like every other fucking subject on the planet, I've forgotten more about Venezuala than you know, let's look at the link you link. We'll go through it step by step and make it a learing experience for you. Firstly, they used a graph! See the end of growth and subsequent huge drop in GDP that started in 2000, one year after Chavez took office. What caused that? Why do you think it isn't mentioned in the article?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2UE5xV2HDT...it-meter-0.gif
So it is true what they say about Frenchmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
If you want to post something substantive instead of just a big gay rant then I'll reply to it.
Post something substantive and I'll reply to it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axCheck this graph out Kirk:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThere's corruption in every economy. There are corrupt politicians in the United States and the government is entirly corrupted by corporate money but they still manage to hold democratic elections. So why can't Venezuela.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Seeing as, like every other fucking subject on the planet, I've forgotten more about Venezuala than you know, let's look at the link you link. We'll go through it step by step and make it a learing experience for you. Firstly, they used a graph! See the end of growth and subsequent huge drop in GDP that started in 2000, one year after Chavez took office. What caused that? Why do you think it isn't mentioned in the article?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2UE5xV2HDT...it-meter-0.gif
French and gay? I thought you were supposed to be a bleeding heart and not post such hateful hurtful things. It's not becoming of you at all. I'm American & Conservative and I have more respect for the French than you do...but then again they aren't at war or threatening America so I could see where that would irk you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingSo it is true what they say about Frenchmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
If you want to post something substantive instead of just a big gay rant then I'll reply to it.
I asked you if Caracas was going great guns before 2000 and you gave me no response. I guess George W. Bush made you misread that or forget about answering it.....is there no depth he won't sink to?!?!?!