Let's put this "Junior ruined Martinez" myth to rest once and for all

Ok, I think we've all had a good laugh. But time to get serious.

Let's address this myth that Junior somehow "ruined" Martinez in their recent fight.
Only Chavez Jr. nuthuggers, and/or those with a boxing IQ of 0.00001 (not necessarily mutually exclusive groups) seriously claim this bullshit.

• FACT: Martinez schooled and exposed the clueless Junior for 11 1/2 rounds.
• FACT: For 11 1/2 rounds, it was as lopsided a beating as anyone has seen in a long time.
• FACT: Had it not been 'cause Junior has a pretty decent chin, he would've been KTFO'ed much earlier in the fight.
• FACT: Junior habitually comes into fights with a huge size advantage. How? By cheating. For which he has been caught and suspended. And at least half a dozen other times, he's been suspected of doping by refusing to provide urine tests.

But......

In the interest of always giving even the worst nuthuggers at least a shadow of the benefit of the doubt... I've generously made it my business to see whether there is any merit to this ridiculous theory. And by golly I found something!

You see.... Junior DID ruin Martinez.

He ruined Sergio by being SO FUCKING CLUELESS during the whole fight..... that Sergio thought he could easily school and humiliate his next opponent as well. Unfortunately for Sergio, Murray turned out to be a REAL prizefighter. And because of that, Sergio very nearly lost a decision many think he should have lost anyway.

So my friends... there you have it.
Junior DID ruin Martinez.


;)

chavez broke martinez' hand.
chavez wrecked martinez' knee.
chavez almost KO'd martinez.

martinez certainly didn't look very good in his last fight.

Well I guess you could make a case that chavezs head fucked martinez hand up by being punched repeatedly, on a serious note I'm not sure chavez won't have lingering effects.

You're such a whinny little bitch. Always bitching about Chavez Jr and Canelo and every mexican fighter out there. Shut the fuck up already man. "Has a pretty decent chin" Pretty decent? That statement alone shows how much of a fucking hater you are. BOOO FUCKING HOOOO "He comes in overweight so much heavier than day before" Welcome to fucking boxing dumbfuck. I guess since Puerto Rico aint got shit going so you are just focusing on attacking mexican boxers. Martinez is clearly not the same fighter he was 3-4 fights ago. Even you yourself said JR would KO him in the rematch so wtf are you talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysnbg7z07kw



Down boy! Down!
I've told VD to put a fucking muzzle on you.


So.... should I put you down for "Yes, I think Junior ruined Martinez."?

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

chavez broke martinez' hand.
chavez wrecked martinez' knee.
chavez almost KO'd martinez.

martinez certainly didn't look very good in his last fight.

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It's pretty much that simple.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

chavez broke martinez' hand.
chavez wrecked martinez' knee.
chavez almost KO'd martinez.

martinez certainly didn't look very good in his last fight.

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It's pretty much that simple.

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And simple is what you do best. Anything beyond that, it overheats the empty space between your ears. Yeah... Chavez broke Martinez's hand (dumbass).... with his face. What a fucking loser you are, clown. You're so angry all the time... you can't distinguish between facts and bullshit.

I love exposing your ignorant ass. It has become fun for me. I look forward to seeing your ridiculous posts, so I can make fun of them. BTW... when are you going to make another baseball bat post? I miss those.

Im just a white boy from San Diego. I take nobodies side. My opinion is just an opinion. Im not into the name calling. And will take no part in it. My opinion is Martinez is not the same fighter he was before. The movement he showed in the Chavez fight was not there. To say Martinez was ruined in the Chavez fight is a valid statement. Why it's upsetting some posters so much is baffling to me.

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Originally Posted by Scott22

Im just a white boy from San Diego. I take nobodies side. My opinion is just an opinion. Im not into the name calling. And will take no part in it. My opinion is Martinez is not the same fighter he was before. The movement he showed in the Chavez fight was not there. To say Martinez was ruined in the Chavez fight is a valid statement. Why it's upsetting some posters so much is baffling to me.

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Sensible opinions are always welcome, Scott. Pay no mind to the private war going on.
We always do that. :)

There's a couple of reasons why I disagree with the "ruined" theory.

1. Had Martinez given himself enough time to come back properly from the knee injury he suffered, he would've been fine. He made a mistake in judgement. Either that, or the rehab didn't go as planned.

2. You're absolutely right. Martinez is definitely NOT the same fighter he was before. But it wasn't just because or after the Chavez fight. Martinez is 38 years old. His decline has probably been going on for some time now. Against Chavez he looked sharp and fast because he was..... fighting Chavez. Fighting someone as one-dimensional and slow as Chavez will make most great fighters look even greater.

3. People mention his hand. Again, Martinez has been susceptible to injuries, including hand ones, for a long time. And if he hurt it against Chavez, it was because he was smashing it against Chavez's face the WHOLE fight.



No one disputes that Martinez has been on a downhill slide. But to give Chavez credit for somehow "ruining" Martinez..... especially since Chavez has been Martinez's most dominant victory in his last few fights...... is giving Chavez credit where credit is most certainly NOT due. And THAT is my problem with the whole "ruining" theory.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Scott22

Im just a white boy from San Diego. I take nobodies side. My opinion is just an opinion. Im not into the name calling. And will take no part in it. My opinion is Martinez is not the same fighter he was before. The movement he showed in the Chavez fight was not there. To say Martinez was ruined in the Chavez fight is a valid statement. Why it's upsetting some posters so much is baffling to me.

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Sensible opinions are always welcome, Scott. Pay no mind to the private war going on.
We always do that. :)

There's a couple of reasons why I disagree with the "ruined" theory.

1. Had Martinez given himself enough time to come back properly from the knee injury he suffered, he would've been fine. He made a mistake in judgement. Either that, or the rehab didn't go as planned.

2. You're absolutely right. Martinez is definitely NOT the same fighter he was before. But it wasn't just because or after the Chavez fight. Martinez is 38 years old. His decline has probably been going on for some time now. Against Chavez he looked sharp and fast because he was..... fighting Chavez. Fighting someone as one-dimensional and slow as Chavez will make most great fighters look even greater.

3. People mention his hand. Again, Martinez has been susceptible to injuries, including hand ones, for a long time. And if he hurt it against Chavez, it was because he was smashing it against Chavez's face the WHOLE fight.



No one disputes that Martinez has been on a downhill slide. But to give Chavez credit for somehow "ruining" Martinez..... especially since Chavez has been Martinez's most dominant victory in his last few fights...... is giving Chavez credit where credit is most certainly NOT due. And THAT is my problem with the whole "ruining" theory.

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Don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to be more concern with not giving Chavez credit than you do with the valid points presented to you. I say that because you never even mentioned the knock down. Which is what caused his knee injury. Im far from a Chavez fan. But I think he earned himself some respect for rallying and almost scoring the knock out in the last round. Most fighters who had been dominated the way he was dominated for 11 rounds would of just packed it in and accepted there loss. They would of just settled for the distance. Chavez didn't. He went for it. That should be respected. At least in my opinion it does.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

You're such a whinny little bitch. Always bitching about Chavez Jr and Canelo and every mexican fighter out there. Shut the fuck up already man. "Has a pretty decent chin" Pretty decent? That statement alone shows how much of a fucking hater you are. BOOO FUCKING HOOOO "He comes in overweight so much heavier than day before" Welcome to fucking boxing dumbfuck. I guess since Puerto Rico aint got shit going so you are just focusing on attacking mexican boxers. Martinez is clearly not the same fighter he was 3-4 fights ago. Even you yourself said JR would KO him in the rematch so wtf are you talking about?

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That's what it's all about.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Ok, I think we've all had a good laugh. But time to get serious.

Let's address this myth that Junior somehow "ruined" Martinez in their recent fight.
Only Chavez Jr. nuthuggers, and/or those with a boxing IQ of 0.00001 (not necessarily mutually exclusive groups) seriously claim this bullshit.

• FACT: Martinez schooled and exposed the clueless Junior for 11 1/2 rounds.
• FACT: For 11 1/2 rounds, it was as lopsided a beating as anyone has seen in a long time.
• FACT: Had it not been 'cause Junior has a pretty decent chin, he would've been KTFO'ed much earlier in the fight.
• FACT: Junior habitually comes into fights with a huge size advantage. How? By cheating. For which he has been caught and suspended. And at least half a dozen other times, he's been suspected of doping by refusing to provide urine tests.

But......

In the interest of always giving even the worst nuthuggers at least a shadow of the benefit of the doubt... I've generously made it my business to see whether there is any merit to this ridiculous theory. And by golly I found something!

You see.... Junior DID ruin Martinez.

He ruined Sergio by being SO FUCKING CLUELESS during the whole fight..... that Sergio thought he could easily school and humiliate his next opponent as well. Unfortunately for Sergio, Murray turned out to be a REAL prizefighter. And because of that, Sergio very nearly lost a decision many think he should have lost anyway.

So my friends... there you have it.
Junior DID ruin Martinez.


;)

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I think the fact you started this thread shows its on your mind , and you are trying to reason with yourself , but its all IF'S AND BUT'S .
For me you do seem to give Mexican fighters a bad rap.
Get over it.

I'm actually with @TitoFan on this one. I don't really think Junior did shit to ruin Martinez. If Khan loses his next fight, is it because Julio Diaz fucked him up so bad with the knockdown and shaking him up? Get a grip guys. Mexican boxing has so much to be proud of now, it baffles me how any of you have bought into the Chavez Jr. bullshit Arum has sold you. Alvarez, Mares, Leo Santa Cruz, Ceja, Andy Ruiz to name a few current quality fighters, why do you continuosly defend/support a drugs cheat who doesn't even respect his own father for what he was gifted? This isn't a Puerto Rico vs. Mexico argument (because there isn't one, Mexico is kicking the crap outta PR right now), it is an argument against the absurd theory that Junior's outclassing somehow had anything to do with Martinez looking poor against Murray. He didn't look great against Barker & Macklin for fucks sake. At 38, with his hands down style, Martinez is naturally declining. If he wasn't, Big Bob and Don Jose wouldn't have allowed Martinez anywhere near their prodigal son.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Ok, I think we've all had a good laugh. But time to get serious.

Let's address this myth that Junior somehow "ruined" Martinez in their recent fight.
Only Chavez Jr. nuthuggers, and/or those with a boxing IQ of 0.00001 (not necessarily mutually exclusive groups) seriously claim this bullshit.

• FACT: Martinez schooled and exposed the clueless Junior for 11 1/2 rounds.
• FACT: For 11 1/2 rounds, it was as lopsided a beating as anyone has seen in a long time.
• FACT: Had it not been 'cause Junior has a pretty decent chin, he would've been KTFO'ed much earlier in the fight.
• FACT: Junior habitually comes into fights with a huge size advantage. How? By cheating. For which he has been caught and suspended. And at least half a dozen other times, he's been suspected of doping by refusing to provide urine tests.

But......

In the interest of always giving even the worst nuthuggers at least a shadow of the benefit of the doubt... I've generously made it my business to see whether there is any merit to this ridiculous theory. And by golly I found something!

You see.... Junior DID ruin Martinez.

He ruined Sergio by being SO FUCKING CLUELESS during the whole fight..... that Sergio thought he could easily school and humiliate his next opponent as well. Unfortunately for Sergio, Murray turned out to be a REAL prizefighter. And because of that, Sergio very nearly lost a decision many think he should have lost anyway.

So my friends... there you have it.
Junior DID ruin Martinez.


;)

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You start such a serious thread and have the audacity to start a sentence with the word 'and'? There's typos, then there's idiocy.

If Jr has been caught so many times and is well known for cheating...
Surely Martinez would have him tested?
Surely the wbc would have him tested?
Surely whichever argentine authority deal with this stuff would have him tested?

Deal with the loss mate, and move on.

My fucking christ. This is all the more reason to hate this spring insomnia. Whats wrong with this thread and just forget this fucking nonstop Puerto Rican/ Mexican rivalry. Jr did not wreck Martinez! and anyone who tries to suggest it while at the same time shitting on this author for starting this thread is a moron.

Next thing you know I'll be a Mexican hater. Grow the fuck up. The suggestion that Chavez wrecked Martinez is horseshit and I'm not from Puerto Rico. Geography has squat to do with it. He didn't wreck Martinez because of his Murray showing and thinking it is sheer lunacy. And while you are at it throw an extra pinch of salt on those fries.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

I think the fact you started this thread shows its on your mind , and you are trying to reason with yourself , but its all IF'S AND BUT'S .
For me you do seem to give Mexican fighters a bad rap.
Get over it.

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Let's say for the sake of argument that I do give ALL Mexican fighters a bad rap (which I don't).
Still.... let's say I do.

Now I ask... does that in any way change the facts of the JCC Jr - Martinez fight?

Please try and get past who is stating the points, and try to concentrate on the points themselves.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by outspoken

I guess since Puerto Rico aint got shit going so you are just focusing on attacking mexican boxers.

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That's what it's all about.

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No, my mentally-challenged friend. THIS is what it's all about.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

My fucking christ. This is all the more reason to hate this spring insomnia. Whats wrong with this thread and just forget this fucking nonstop Puerto Rican/ Mexican rivalry. Jr did not wreck Martinez! and anyone who tries to suggest it while at the same time shitting on this author for starting this thread is a moron.

Next thing you know I'll be a Mexican hater. Grow the fuck up. The suggestion that Chavez wrecked Martinez is horseshit and I'm not from Puerto Rico. Geography has squat to do with it. He didn't wreck Martinez because of his Murray showing and thinking it is sheer lunacy. And while you are at it throw an extra pinch of salt on those fries.

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Man, oh man! You guys can pick strange subjects to argue about.
I don't think the Chavez fight ruined Martinez but I don't think it helped him either.
Injuries are part of boxing and sometimes they can be ruinous. Giving Chavez credit for the injury is some kind of knee jerk reaction I don't understand.
Boxing, the fight game is what hurt that knee, in my opinion.

Martinez might have ruined himself by not giving himself enough time for his knee to heal properly and rehabilitate it properly before jumping into a fight with another real tough competitor, he only has himself to blame for re-injuring himself and well being out for the rest of the year, pretty black and white

Rematch!!!!

Junior did not ruin Sergio. 1 round would not do that to Martinez. Junior caused the knock down and injury but that does not constitute ruining Sergio. I hope Martinez comes back stronger as he has worked hard to get to where he is at, which is the top of the game.

Sergio has some very interesting challenges at this weight with Kid Chocolate and GGG but he may go for the money fights which may be the rematch with Junior, Alvarez or Floyd. All would be excellent fights.

I'd just like to say please keep it kind of civil since this is the main, open, for all to see forum, if you want to make this into a who's the baddest wetback thread, don't.

Age ruined Martinez

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Originally Posted by 0james0

Age ruined Martinez

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I agree. Sergio has been around the block and pinning his issues on a fight he had in his late thirties does not make sense. As far as anyone getting ruined I think Chavez is ruining Chavez. He seems to approach boxing in a half assed manner. He has built in popularity of his father's fan base. Freddy Roach basically said Chavez is lazy. I think saying Chavez ruined Sergio is giving him too much credit. They are both doing that just fine themselves.

This is just a skirmish in the ongoing battle between @TitoFan and @violentdemise. How an Argentinian can be brought into a fight betweens fans of Mexican and Puerto Rican boxers, I have no idea.

Junior didn't ruin anything. Martinez is 38 years old! He's been a professional boxer for something like 15 years. Martinez was at his best below middleweight. Did he look unbeatable in the Barker and Macklin fights? I'll answer that: no, he didn't. Don't forget Junior's team wouldn't face Martinez for years. What did Junior do to ruin him anyway? Put his head in front of his left hand to be hit? I don't get it. Is his punch resistance worse for wear since the Junior fight? Since he's been at middleweight, he's been down against Macklin and Barker. He was also stopped by Margarito in 2002!

By the way, as far as the drug testing goes, Junior said no to drug tests, and he had power in that negotiation. Martinez took the terms as suggested by Junior. In their next fight, if it happens, which I see no need for (as a boxing fan, I'd rather see a fight with Geale or Golovkin), Martinez has publicly stated Junior must take tests. Is Junior willing to comply?

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

I'd just like to say please keep it kind of civil since this is the main, open, for all to see forum, if you want to make this into a who's the baddest wetback thread, don't.

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You really think us men will let ourselves be ordered around by a woman? C'mon guys, lets start a riot! ;D

Too bad I didn't make this into a poll.
It'd be about 100-3 so far.