Do we agree, and admit, that we overrated Adrian Broner?

He almost bit off more than he could chew in Paulie Malignaggi, which says a lot considering Khan & Hatton stopped Paulie, and Cotto beat him up. Paulie didn't look worse for wear last night either. Now we know for certain that Broner is no rare, once a decade talent, like a Mayweather, Marquez or a Pacquiao.

So, let's take a step back, and reevaluate Broner. Where does he go from here? Should he take a few years to develop his craft before making another run at the ephemeral p4p title? Maybe drop back down to 135? I would say 140, but I don't think he needs to be in the ring with a lot of the guys at 140 yet. Maybe he goes back to 135 and cleans out the division. Face Burns, Vasquez and the like. What do you say?

Nope ;D

Your comparison of Broner to Berto appears quite apt. Will Showtime make the same mistake that HBO made though and pay him millions of dollars to face cans before he faces a top competitor, and loses?

I'd say so. I never thought Broner was the next coming or anything, but I thought he was a damn sight better than he showed last night.

Paulie made some interesting points in his post fight presser. He basically said that Broner was a lot less than he expected, he didn't hit hard at all and that he was a good fighter, but not good enough to carry boxing for the next decade or be the superstar he's being hyped as. Difficult to disagree too much with what he says imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=w4LEyeqLxfE

Comparing Broner to Berto is ap now? This is just foolish.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Comparing Broner to Berto is ap now? This is just foolish.

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Just in the sense of Berto was getting paid millions of dollars to face guys who shouldn't be on HBO. Broner was paid $1.5MM to face Paulie Malignaggi, a 32-year old version of Paulie too. Paulie's last opponent was paid $150k to put it in perspective.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Nope ;D

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Broner proved nothing except he is a lttle punk / piece of shit. Displayed he does not have the power to keep a Maidana, Mathysse , Garcia Pac or JMM off of him. Perfect opponent in pillow mitts Malanaggi. Simply did not throw enough punches to win the title in the champions backyard. Will not rule 140 or 147 weight class. He is best served fighting at 135. I would love to see Broner fight Bradley , he would make the punk gas out in ring. Devon Alexander would out skill this piece of shit .

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

He almost bit off more than he could chew in Paulie Malignaggi, which says a lot considering Khan & Hatton stopped Paulie, and Cotto beat him up. Paulie didn't look worse for wear last night either. Now we know for certain that Broner is no rare, once a decade talent, like a Mayweather, Marquez or a Pacquiao.

So, let's take a step back, and reevaluate Broner. Where does he go from here? Should he take a few years to develop his craft before making another run at the ephemeral p4p title? Maybe drop back down to 135? I would say 140, but I don't think he needs to be in the ring with a lot of the guys at 140 yet. Maybe he goes back to 135 and cleans out the division. Face Burns, Vasquez and the like. What do you say?

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I say you are absolutely right!!

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Comparing Broner to Berto is ap now? This is just foolish.

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Both rushed to the spotlight, over payed and steered very carefully into early trinket matches with so so opponents. Talented but a bit manufactured and groomed..in Broners case literally after a fight. Both flawed in footwork with defensive lapses and both way too hyped up by the networks. When they both finally had a "break out name" fight...layed somewhat of an egg and the luster came off. Oh and of course Al Haymon productions.

They are nothing alike style wise at all. That is what I'm commenting on.

I agree but don't admit, because I've said since day one that he was overrated!

Read every post I've ever written on him, I always said he was far too hyped.


End of the day after last night, name a welterweight that doesn't beat Broner?

Matthysse - hits Broner, stops Broner.
Garcia - hits Broner, stops Broner.
Khan - dances around Broner, scores a very one sided UD over Broner.
Mayweather - I need say no more
Petersen - closer fight but stands a chance.
Guererro - beats Broner on UD.

Guy looked average last night against Paulie who is an average welterweight now.

Broner in the lightweight division is like Mile Tyson fighting in the cruiser weight division, he's massive and compact, however for Broner that doesn't transfer well to welterweight.

As much as he won the fight we realized last night that he was hyped and that his huge knockout ratio in the LW division is down to nothing more than his size in the division.

When he steps up to a weight were he is of average size and weight he's an average fighter.

Nothing like Matthysse who is average size, maybe even small for the weight but still has raw power.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

They are nothing alike style wise at all. That is what I'm commenting on.

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Oh nothing at all style-wise. I meant in terms of overrated.

Matthysse is calling Broner out on twitter today:

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Lucas Matthysse ‏@LucasMatthysse 18m
@FightNightX @itzStephieLynne @AdrienBroner @Kingpete26 @DANNYSwift tell el lil danny que firma la contract! soy listo!

Lucas Matthysse ‏@LucasMatthysse
@paulMalignaggi Great Fight Champ, Broner fought a dirty fight, #cowardbroner

Lucas Matthysse ‏@LucasMatthysse
@AdrienBroner I will knock out out like I did the bitch @Kingpete26 , I know you scared of me like @DANNYSwift is. pussies come get some!

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Who was Paullie shouting at the end there? What was it over?

Broner isnt that good but he is class. He will be champ for a long time. He will be no more protected then Pacman, Flloyd or any other boxing cash cow.

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

Who was Paullie shouting at the end there? What was it over?

Broner isnt that good but he is class. He will be champ for a long time. He will be no more protected then Pacman, Flloyd or any other boxing cash cow.

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How high did you rate Paulie Malignaggi @Silkeyjoe? Because most people didn't rate Paulie Malignaggi. Broner could not dominate Paulie Malignaggi the way Miguel Cotto, Ricky Hatton, or Amir Khan did, and this was a passed-prime Paulie Malignaggi.

Broner was being heralded as the next Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather, and after last night's performance, those opinions are going way overboard. He barely beat Paulie Malignaggi. Many people had it a draw or Paulie winning by a point. It's only fair we reel in some of the praise.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

Who was Paullie shouting at the end there? What was it over?

Broner isnt that good but he is class. He will be champ for a long time. He will be no more protected then Pacman, Flloyd or any other boxing cash cow.

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How high did you rate Paulie Malignaggi @Silkeyjoe? Because most people didn't rate Paulie Malignaggi. Broner could not dominate Paulie Malignaggi the way Miguel Cotto, Ricky Hatton, or Amir Khan did, and this was a passed-prime Paulie Malignaggi.

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I rate him highly, he is a very skilled boxer with no punching power. He has only been beaten by top fighters, and the Hatton fight Paulies mind wasnt right, so dont know if that fight should count as much. He was excellent against Senchenko, when he went to Ukraine to fight an unbeaten, highly but wrongly rated fighter. I think Paulie was about 6/1 with the bookies to win that day.

Also, you cant say because other fighters beat someone better then another guy that that guy isnt as good. Garcia was poor against Holt while Peterson was excellent. Doesnt mean Peterson is better then Garcia. JMM was shit against Flloyd but good against Pacman. It doesnt mean much. Khan was great against Zab, Garcia not so much. Every fighter has off days. Broner didnt look great, but I still think he won very comfortable. There are guys who could beat him, but not that many.

I don't overrate fighters because I evaluate them myself I don't need others! Broner is on a well planned schedule thats working well for him. He fights a local hero in the heros home camp and helps that hero sell out a new room thats looking to promote boxing!
He wins the fight easily (8 to 4) if you know how to judge a "pro fight"! He needed the right guy to get in a full 12 rounds safely and Paulie was perfect for that! I see this kid possibly being an out sanding fighter at the age oges of 25 to 27yrs old. He comes fight and fights out of a steppers mold. He can box and he has power but at 147 I didn't think it would be there with a moving target and it wasn't. Although Paulie was on the move ALL nite, wonder why?
Both acquitted themselves very well and its OVER! Move on!! Bika and the Mexican kid stole the show wiith Heart & Soul! Seth & Banks shouldn't be paid, give them expenses and revoke their liscenses for a year! They were a disgrace and an embarassment! Lil dude from Cinn. town looked skillfull and sharp! Ray.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

He almost bit off more than he could chew in Paulie Malignaggi, which says a lot considering Khan & Hatton stopped Paulie, and Cotto beat him up. Paulie didn't look worse for wear last night either. Now we know for certain that Broner is no rare, once a decade talent, like a Mayweather, Marquez or a Pacquiao.

So, let's take a step back, and reevaluate Broner. Where does he go from here? Should he take a few years to develop his craft before making another run at the ephemeral p4p title? Maybe drop back down to 135? I would say 140, but I don't think he needs to be in the ring with a lot of the guys at 140 yet. Maybe he goes back to 135 and cleans out the division. Face Burns, Vasquez and the like. What do you say?

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I bet he moves down in weight before a serious challenger comes up. This fight was, yet again, about the lack of power of Paulie than it had to do with Broner making a good showing.

Paulie shouldn't even be in boxing IF he can't keep a guy off of him. And it seems as how he has gotten older, he has lost more power.... you can't any respect from anyone with that sorta stuff Paulie. Quit it.

But, this fight showed me a lot about Broner too- he won't fight a REAL live and hard hitting Welter or Jr. Welter EXCEPT for an ageing JMM (who is a small guy himself and bulked up) and a Tim Bradley who hits just as soft as Paulie does- but against Manny, Rios, Garcia, Khan, Thurman, Bailey, Provodnik- guys that can punch and take a punch- Broner won't last.

He is not the next great one. Sorry. I put more stock in Danny Garcia any day!

It says alot when a guy is boasting about being a "three time champion at only 23" and being mentioned in the same sentences as greats but in the next breath all you hear is he's young and still green, has time to develope etc etc. It shines a light on exactly how shallow trinkets are. Its obviously not that he is an outstanding flawless fighter, he's just not. The mention of him in the same sentence with Mayweather is embarrassing..and Mayweather is low on my list of favorites. He like Berto has a huge risk of needing to learn on the job once he gets into the REAL fights against top tier threats. He is doing it backwards, and once you are on the mount, mentally the way he thinks of himself etc and at a peak network exposure you don't get a do'over to face lesser guys and improve. He is playing with fire with that God think, tall hands low walking in literally a straight line lastnight with near zilch side to side, head movement..and its going to get him burned. I'm telling ya.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

It says alot when a guy is boasting about being a "three time champion at only 23" and being mentioned in the same sentences as greats but in the next breath all you hear is he's young and still green, has time to develope etc etc. It shines a light on exactly how shallow trinkets are. Its obviously not that he is an outstanding flawless fighter, he's just not. The mention of him in the same sentence with Mayweather is embarrassing..and Mayweather is low on my list of favorites. He like Berto has a huge risk of needing to learn on the job once he gets into the REAL fights against top tier threats. He is doing it backwards, and once you are on the mount, mentally the way he thinks of himself etc and at a peak network exposure you don't get a do'over to face lesser guys and improve. He is playing with fire with that God think, tall hands low walking in literally a straight line lastnight with near zilch side to side, head movement..and its going to get him burned. I'm telling ya.

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Flash Garcia or Bam Bam Rios hurts him...

Again, I was wrong to count Paulie out. I'll eat crow on that. I don't rate Paulie highly. I think someone who was touted as the heir apparent to Floyd Mayweather would do better against a person of Paulie's caliber. At the same time, for a 23 year old, Broner did well. He'll be a good talent in and around the welterweight division. He's vulnerable too and clearly not unbeatable, which will make for fun match-ups.

Without going into details and giving everyone food for thought on this forum, people like Broner are as the Late James Brown sang on one of his songs,"talking Loud and saying nothing." When you try too hard to be great sometimes you are just masking your fear and sometimes the louder someone is, the less great he appears but he got the decision and let us see who he is scheduled to fight next. Maybe he is the guy that throws stones in a glass house or maybe this was a confidence building fight. when I was a child I heard a story about a man with no arms telling a man with no legs he was going to punch him in the mouth and the guy with no legs threatened to kick the ass of his adversary. The blind man holding a cup tea took a seat and said,"This shit I must see." In time we'll all see so there will be loads of fights between now and then you see!

We cant answer this question until he has reired because he may have just had a bad night which doesnt mean he has been over rated.

Did i think he would do a worse job than a washed up hatton dd to prime Malignaggi? No but there will be other nights o prove himself. If that is an indication of what level hes at then hes got alot of improving to do

I know people are going to be tempted to shit all over Broner because he went to a split decision with Paulie, a guy who was dominated by Khan and Hatton. And I realize that people are going to nitpick his entire career from now until he retires because, like Floyd Mayweather, he is a genuine asshole outside of the ring.

But there's no escaping the fact that this is a 23 year old kid with extraordinary talent and physical attributes. This is a special kid who has the potential to carry boxing in the post-Mayweather/Pacquaio era (that is probably only a few short years away). He's young: he's going to have the "growing pains" of fighting guys with different styles (say what you want about Paulie, but he's slick as grease) and having to figure them out. I've seen Floyd struggle against guys early on in his career that were complete nobodies. And I've seen him have tough fights with guys that were considered journeymen (Emanuel Augustus). Same thing with Ray Leonard and a bunch of other greats. So giving up a few rounds to grizzled vets like Paulie and De Leon at this age, I don't think that's so awful.

His big problem, of course, is his ego and bravado in the ring. Going into that shell and letting guys tee off on him: he needs to realize that even though they aren't hurting him, they're stealing rounds. I've never seen Floyd just give away rounds just defending, he's always used his great defense to set up offense. But I'm very excited about Broner, he's a young, talented, EXCITING fighter.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that Broner was jumping TWO weight divisions and fighting a champ. Put that in context: name someone else in boxing that you'd pick right now to jump TWO weight divisions and beat one of the champions (for argument's sake, the weakest champ in the division even). That's an incredible feat unto itself.

I think the odds against Paulie were just outright insulting and I always knew Paulie would put up a fight as he should do against a man moving up two weight divisions. My only problem is that Paulie started a little too fast against a known slow starter. He could have done less to bank those first 4 rounds and be fresher later.

Having said that, Broner is definitely overrated, but I have never rated him. He clearly doesn't carry all that much power into this division and he is lazy. He takes so much time off in a 36 minute fight. Paulie did the best he can, but he doesn't have the power to make you respect him. Other fighters at 140/147 will do much better than Malignaggi based on power alone. Khan would bamboozle Broner, though probably get rocked his usual 3/4 times. Matthyse and Maidana would flatten him.

Broner/Judah would be a fair next fight and that would be interesting. Judah hates being stalked down, but there is no doubt that Judah could land his money punches through that leaky guard.

Next coming of Mayweather, my arse! Paulie landed over 200 punches. On that basis alone Ricky Hatton is more Floyd Mayweather than Adrien Broner.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Next coming of Mayweather, my arse! Paulie landed over 200 punches.

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Well if you take into account the fact that he threw nearly 850 punches against an opponent who stood right in front of him (often completely stationary) for 12 rounds, landing just over 200 punches isn't that big a deal.

We shouldn't kid ourselves into thinking that Broner would let a guy like Matthyse tee off on him like he let Paulie. Very few of those 200 punches were clean, meaningful shots. And 0% of them could bust a grape.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Next coming of Mayweather, my arse! Paulie landed over 200 punches.

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Well if you take into account the fact that he threw nearly 850 punches against an opponent who stood right in front of him (often completely stationary) for 12 rounds, landing just over 200 punches isn't that big a deal.

We shouldn't kid ourselves into thinking that Broner would let a guy like Matthyse tee off on him like he let Paulie. Very few of those 200 punches were clean, meaningful shots. And 0% of them could bust a grape.

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The point is obvious and it hasn't taken Malignaggi alone to show that Broners defence is porous as he gets hit a lot often. His defense just isn't very effective.

My point stands, Ricky Hatton is more Floyd Mayweather than Broner. By conceding 200+ punches I think a case can be made for Paulie getting the draw. No boxer risks losing rounds by letting an opponent tee off for fun and Broner did lose his share of the rounds.

The only explanation is that Broner doesn't have a sound defence and is easy to hit. Paulie just expanded on what DeLeon did. Broner has an obvious blueprint and someone with a bit of output AND pop will have him in trouble.

He is overrated and it will be fun if he does try to fight a meaningful opponent. It is all smoke and mirrors. He fought Malignaggi who is a likeable guy, but not proven top tier WW material. He has been walked through before and Broner couldn't do anything with him.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The point is obvious and it hasn't taken Malignaggi alone to show that Broners defence is porous as he gets hit a lot often. His defense just isn't very effective.

My point stands, Ricky Hatton is more Floyd Mayweather than Broner. By conceding 200+ punches I think a case can be made for Paulie getting the draw. No boxer risks losing rounds by letting an opponent tee off for fun and Broner did lose his share of the rounds.

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His defense is very effective. He stood right in front of a guy, unmoving, for 12 rounds and hardly got touched with anything. I can probably count on one hand how many times he got hit flush in the head.

A case can be made for Paulie getting a draw? Based on the number of punches he landed? This is the pros, not the amateurs. Fights aren't scored by who lands the most punches. I had money on Paulie and I still saw that Broner clearly won the fight.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

And that's not even mentioning the fact that Broner was jumping TWO weight divisions and fighting a champ. Put that in context: name someone else in boxing that you'd pick right now to jump TWO weight divisions and beat one of the champions (for argument's sake, the weakest champ in the division even). That's an incredible feat unto itself.

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Is that really such a big deal? Name a belt holder as "weak" as Paulie? There are welterweight "prospects" that would have started big favourite against him. Also he is not super slick, as shown by Hatton, Khan, Cotto, N'Dou etc. He's a good tough boxer that gets his face smashed to bits against genuine world-class fighters.

Broner is a good young talent. However, he looked ordinary against a man picked specifically for him to look spectacular against. If you struggle to a points victory over Paulie you certainly wont be "carrying the sport" into the future. Thank fuck.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The point is obvious and it hasn't taken Malignaggi alone to show that Broners defence is porous as he gets hit a lot often. His defense just isn't very effective.

My point stands, Ricky Hatton is more Floyd Mayweather than Broner. By conceding 200+ punches I think a case can be made for Paulie getting the draw. No boxer risks losing rounds by letting an opponent tee off for fun and Broner did lose his share of the rounds.

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His defense is very effective. He stood right in front of a guy, unmoving, for 12 rounds and hardly got touched with anything. I can probably count on one hand how many times he got hit flush in the head.

A case can be made for Paulie getting a draw? Based on the number of punches he landed? This is the pros, not the amateurs. Fights aren't scored by who lands the most punches. I had money on Paulie and I still saw that Broner clearly won the fight.

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Seriously? His defence is shockingly average. You don't get hit 200 times with an effective defence. It doesn't happen. He is flat footed and punches wail on through a leaky guard. He gets hit in every fight and now is in a division in which he cannot stop any of the top fighters.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Seriously? His defence is shockingly average. You don't get hit 200 times with an effective defence. It doesn't happen.

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That's a terribly simplistic view of what happened. He stood right in front of the guy, unmoving, and Paulie could hardly touch him. Punch stats are always flawed, especially when you have a guy who stands still and lets his opponent tee off. I gaurentee you Paulie didn't land 200 clean blows.

If you think Broner's defense is average, you don't know boxing.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Is that really such a big deal?

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I don't know, is it? Name ONE guy you'd pick to go up two weight classes right now and beat a champ at that weight.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Seriously? His defence is shockingly average. You don't get hit 200 times with an effective defence. It doesn't happen.

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That's a terribly simplistic view of what happened. He stood right in front of the guy, unmoving, and Paulie could hardly touch him. Punch stats are always flawed, especially when you have a guy who stands still and lets his opponent tee off. I gaurentee you Paulie didn't land 200 clean blows.

If you think Broner's defense is average, you don't know boxing.

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What?!

You are an idiot. Hatton had better defence than Broner as I already said. Broner gurns and turns his shoulder, but he is getting tagged to the body a lot. You are blind to not see it.

The kid has has 27 pro fights, 108 rounds. He is still learning how to fight- we'll see down the road if, tonight, we saw how good he is, or if it was a step in the learning process.
(I was going to give James Toney as an example, but in his 27th fight he kod Michael Nunn. Didn't look great against Reggie Johnson after that, however.)

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

And that's not even mentioning the fact that Broner was jumping TWO weight divisions and fighting a champ. Put that in context: name someone else in boxing that you'd pick right now to jump TWO weight divisions and beat one of the champions (for argument's sake, the weakest champ in the division even). That's an incredible feat unto itself.

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Thats more testament to how cluttered up and rubbish the multi division trinkets grabs are now. It's very over played and exactly by careful design. He was already 'unofficialy' at welter when he hood winked Escobedo. Guerrero pulled a leap frog too.

Well he jump up 12 pounds and i can name fighters who have done that and won belts vs better people. I mean there are so many divisions that jumping up one is kinda of a joke compared to what it use to be and most of the guys cut weight and should be at the weight they end up hydrated to.

Wow boxing fans never cease to amaze me, Broner could beat Khan, Peterson, Cano, Lopez, Maidana, Berto, Judah, Paris, Perez, Burns for sure and I'll give him a fair shot against everyone but the elite.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Is that really such a big deal?

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I don't know, is it? Name ONE guy you'd pick to go up two weight classes right now and beat a champ at that weight.

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There are currently around 80 belt holders. Name them and I'm pretty sure we'll find several fighters that could step up two weight classes.