As far as legacy goes put rank these fighters in order.
1. Tito Trinidad
2. Mayweather
3. Kosta tsu
4. Mosley
5. De LaHoya
6. Whitaker
7. Chavez
8. Hopkins
9. Pac
10.
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As far as legacy goes put rank these fighters in order.
1. Tito Trinidad
2. Mayweather
3. Kosta tsu
4. Mosley
5. De LaHoya
6. Whitaker
7. Chavez
8. Hopkins
9. Pac
10.
1. MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
2. Pacquaio
3. Chavez
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. De la hoya
7. Tito
8. Mosley
9. Tszyu
Out of the names u listed, this is my ranking.
If Roy was on there, it would look a lil different
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita1. MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
2. Pacquaio
3. Chavez
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. De la hoya
7. Tito
8. Mosley
9. Tszyu
Out of the names u listed, this is my ranking.
If Roy was on there, it would look a lil different
Me and my friend were having an arguement about why DeLa Hoya was so popular, this list is comprised of other great fighters that floated around De La Hoya in similiar divisions around similiar times, the only one on the list he didn't fight was tzu, all these guys were just as good as him if not better yet recieved less than a quarter in money /popularity as Oscar.
Oscar was popular with the ladies and he had that charisma that few fighters or people possess. He was a pretty good fighter as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry RiceQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita1. MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
2. Pacquaio
3. Chavez
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. De la hoya
7. Tito
8. Mosley
9. Tszyu
Out of the names u listed, this is my ranking.
If Roy was on there, it would look a lil different
Me and my friend were having an arguement about why DeLa Hoya was so popular, this list is comprised of other great fighters that floated around De La Hoya in similiar divisions around similiar times, the only one on the list he didn't fight was tzu, all these guys were just as good as him if not better yet recieved less than a quarter in money /popularity as Oscar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita1. MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
2. Pacquaio
3. Chavez
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. De la hoya
7. Tito
8. Mosley
9. Tszyu
Out of the names u listed, this is my ranking.
If Roy was on there, it would look a lil different
1 Chavez
2 Mayweather
3 Pac
4 ODLH
5 B Hop
6 Mosley
7 Sweat Pea
8 Tito
9 Tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09Oscar was popular with the ladies and he had that charisma that few fighters or people possess. He was a pretty good fighter as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry RiceQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita1. MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
2. Pacquaio
3. Chavez
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. De la hoya
7. Tito
8. Mosley
9. Tszyu
Out of the names u listed, this is my ranking.
If Roy was on there, it would look a lil different
Me and my friend were having an arguement about why DeLa Hoya was so popular, this list is comprised of other great fighters that floated around De La Hoya in similiar divisions around similiar times, the only one on the list he didn't fight was tzu, all these guys were just as good as him if not better yet recieved less than a quarter in money /popularity as Oscar.
Rank them
1.pac... he's done something that's NEVER been done.. start at 106 pounds and dominate everyone up to 150 pounds. sure,he's lost a couple along the way... but he's won titles and had some of the craziest beatings ever administered to fighters... and along the way, he beat a few all time greats and gave them all time great beating.
2. Mayweather ... No one can beat this guy... if he gets ko'ed ..his rankings could drop.
3. Mosely... has done a lot in boxing...and still doing it. at his best, pretty unbeatable.
4 delahoya... same as Mosely.
5. Whitaker... all defense..no offence.
6 Hopkins... has lost all BIG fights...
7. Chavez ... mediocre opposition.
8 Kosta tsu..all he did, he did in one div... but he was the king.
9. Tito Trinidad... one dementional..even at his best, he wasn't the best in his div.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
Just out of curiosity, how could you rank Chavez who was 89-0 at one time and dominated his weight classes until his mid 30's, under Mosely, Hopkins and Whitaker.
It could be debatable between Pac, Floyd and Chavez who is on top even ODLH. Just not cant imagine Mosley, B Hop and Sweat Pea on top of Chavez.
The question is just in good debate and respect your opinion.
PS
Lets not forget Chavez's 86 KO's out of 107 wins.
Just out of curiosity, how could you rank Chavez who was 89-0 at one time and dominated his weight classes until his mid 30's, under Mosely, Hopkins and Whitaker.
It could be debatable between Pac, Floyd and Chavez who is on top even ODLH. Just not cant imagine Mosley, B Hop and Sweat Pea on top of Chavez.
The question is just in good debate and respect your opinion.
*we're in love with the notion that someone can go 89-0... BUT, really..who did he beat? he beat a lot of "B" opposition..ALOT of "c" opposition... they robbed Meldrik Taylor...and Sweet Pea schooled him... is he great?..sure he is... but could he have beaten DLH at lightweight or light welter at anytime of his career?... I don't think so... could he have beaten Mosely..Kostya Tszu?... we know he couldn't beat Sweet Pea... Could he have Beaten May?...Pac? the greatest Mexcan fighter isn't Chavez anyway..it's Salvador Sanchez... .
You still have legacy unfolding or blowing up in their faces with Manny, Hopkins, Mayweather. Mosley should just call it a damn day already. All three could lose their next fights. With the exception of Hopkins all of them fought at one time or another 'comfortably' in same weight range. Honestly my #1 least liked fighter of all time had to be Whitaker when he was active. I hated the fuck, cocky clowny crouching twat...but as far as legacy...accomplishment..all around game skill and names taken etc. I got him easy top three. At lightweight, call me high, but I think he outclasses Mosley. He beat Chavez and gave Oscar a go on the backside. He beats Tszyu, did more and was better than Tito all around. Chavez wasn't a punk and at lightweight a solid boxer puncher who in a hypothetical world given what they did at respected times..he could beat Oscar there.
New here, but I'm going to roll out my opinion anyway and why:
1. Whitaker - unquestioned best in his day and for a while - JCC was a joke and everyone knew it
2. Chavez - beast - he destroyed people in his day and fought a lot of very, very good fighters - not Tiajuana taxi drivers
3. DLH - I can't stand him, but can't knock what he's done and who he has fought
4. Sugar Shane - unquestioned best for a while - considered unbeatable at lightweight and was leaps and bounds ahead of them when he moved up - the DLH fights are classics
5. Hopkins - can't be ignored what he is doing now - I don't think that his middleweight reign has enough names on it to really count and he didn't catch RJJ when he was still truly RJJ - doesn't count
6. Mayweather - I could argue some of the spots above this, but won't - he's not done, but most people don't think that he's taken on the best at his weight since he was at 135, unless you count Cotto at 154.
7. Pac - impressive run is over - impressive fall is underway - but the run was impressive
8. Tito - has a great career - however, I think he clearly lost to DLH, I question his victory over Whitaker, and he was destroyed by Hopkins... good fighter, but not at the elite level of those above him on this list
9. Kostya - beat Zab in impressive fashion - nice fighter - but was never the name that Tito was, even at his best - but he was the best at his weight for a while and it was surprising when he was handled and how he was handled
Quote:
Originally Posted by justaguy
You question Tito's victory over Whitaker??? Tito dominated that fight although I don't give him much credit considering sweet pea was shot
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
I cant say I totally disagree with you.
The perspective im coming from is legacy tho.
If he asked better fighter, pure boxers, defensive fighters or etc these would change my list up a little again.
But as far as looking back on legacies 86 KO's and 107 wins is hard to beat.
*Hey man..i hear u..i hated Sweet Pee...BUT, with age... I've learned to admire him and what he was able to do..crazy.. all these guys had their day in the sun... it really is just some ones opinion... for me..Pac at 106 pounds starting out...then flip to him kicking the crap out of Margarito and Cotto... to me, it's never been done...just awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I notice the Kosta Tszu gets no love..at his best, he was unbeatable. it's has ben rumored MANY times that both Mosely and DeLaHoya skipped over the light welter weight div becuz of KT. Mosely even said"the guy was an animal"...just saying.
At his best he was beaten by Vince Phillips who a few fights before had been eaten alive at WW by Ike Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
*KT didn't even look like KT in that fight... he underestimated him... it happens.. if u think Phillips beat KT at his best... then good for u...
I agree with your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita1. MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
2. Pacquaio
3. Chavez
4. Hopkins
5. Whitaker
6. De la hoya
7. Tito
8. Mosley
9. Tszyu
Out of the names u listed, this is my ranking.
If Roy was on there, it would look a lil different
The second part of what you say is what I mean... Whitaker was not Whitaker... Tito was a young lion, but it's not like his punches were that hard to see coming. He won the fight, no doubt... but he didn't beat the guy that I would consider to be the real Sweet Pea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry RiceQuote:
Originally Posted by justaguy
You question Tito's victory over Whitaker??? Tito dominated that fight although I don't give him much credit considering sweet pea was shot
Glad you found the way friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by justaguyThe second part of what you say is what I mean... Whitaker was not Whitaker... Tito was a young lion, but it's not like his punches were that hard to see coming. He won the fight, no doubt... but he didn't beat the guy that I would consider to be the real Sweet Pea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry RiceQuote:
Originally Posted by justaguy
You question Tito's victory over Whitaker??? Tito dominated that fight although I don't give him much credit considering sweet pea was shot
As far as the question goes taking all things into perspective I don't see how you can rank any of them over Hopkins historically and I cant stand the prick.
1. may
2. oscar
3. chavez
4. pac
5. hop
6. Pernell
7. Lennox
8. tit0
9. kostya
Chavez
Whitaker
Pac
Hopkins
De LaHoya
Mayweather
Tito Trinidad
Mosley
Kosta tszyu
Like the place, bud - much more BOXING talk... imagine that :DQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitGlad you found the way friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by justaguyThe second part of what you say is what I mean... Whitaker was not Whitaker... Tito was a young lion, but it's not like his punches were that hard to see coming. He won the fight, no doubt... but he didn't beat the guy that I would consider to be the real Sweet Pea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry RiceQuote:
Originally Posted by justaguy
You question Tito's victory over Whitaker??? Tito dominated that fight although I don't give him much credit considering sweet pea was shot
All great fighters deserving of their legacies.
But this is why I'll never rank Oscar over Trinidad:
Oscar Cleans Up On Tito’s Leftovers Again - De La Hoya Beats a Shell of Mayorga
Oscar was the "perfect storm" of boxing popularity. Olympic gold medalist... fully bilingual... "boy next door good looks"... charming (albeit calculated) TV personality. He was the quintessential crossover star. Pretty good fighter, too. But his record pales in comparison with Trinidad's... and toward the end of their respective careers they chose two very different tacks. Oscar went after the "calculated", smaller, big-name opponents... thinking strictly legacy. It backfired big-time against Manny Pacquiao. Trinidad went after bigger and bigger game... finally losing a fight he should've never fought... against RJJ.
Of course, Oscar will always have the much bigger fan base. He carefully crafted his popularity with both Mexicans and Americans. Trinidad cared only about representing his small island as proudly as he could.
Compare their records... and you'll see that Trinidad blew out the better and scarier opponents, including some with previously undefeated records. They both failed at middleweight... but Trinidad gave a much better account of himself at that weight than Oscar by several orders of magnitude.
The popular Trinidad-hater line about his being one-dimensional looks pretty ridiculous when held up against his stellar record and knockout ratio. Before he beat Oba Carr (before Oscar then beat Oba, too ;) ), Oba Carr was considered "all that". A great up-and-coming fighter. After Trinidad beat him... Carr was nobody. The typical folly of fickle boxing fans. Oh well.... c'est la vie.
Just my opinion, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Great post, I co-sign everything you said.
i don't know how u don't rank Oscar over Tito...they both fought eachother and Oscar was robbed... there's not debating Tito lost that fight by at least three rounds or more... where-ever Tito is ranked, Oscar should one ahead of him...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
Fighters Tito popped their cherry
Yori Campus
Oba Carr
Oscar De La Hoya
David Reid
Fernando Vargas
Only Oscar was able to go on to other things, everybody else was ruined
Adding in all the variables these are his top wins
1. Joppy
2. Vargas
3. Reid
4. Carr
5. Blocker
6. Campus
7. De La Hoya
8. Thiam
Only one missing from this list is Ike Quartey, he decided to throw a temper tantrum and retire after he was robbed against De La Hoya.
Tito would fight any and everybody no matter if it was high risk low reward or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
And many agree with you, stinkybug. But many disagree also. Consider that the fight was held in Las Vegas, not San Juan. And that Oscar was the darling and the cash cow of the major networks. There was no incentive to rob Oscar. He threw the fight away in the last three rounds, running for his life.
Oscar was the better boxer, yes. But IMO, Trinidad was the better fighter, AND... had the better and more impressive career.
I thought Trinidad beat Oscar, by one point, though neither 'covered themselves with glory.' His fight with Carr, on the other hand, was very well fought, Trinidad, I mean. And watch the Larry Barnes fight and that beautiful hook after the slip that brought about the end of the fight.
Oscar, when trained by Jesus Rivero, was on his way to being one of the very very best. But Oscar was never a puncher; he was always a fast, skilled boxer that could hit pretty good. He hit less good as he moved up, and, in trying to be something he wasn't, he neglected his skill and his jab.
It really irritates me when people say Oscar deserved to lose to Tito because he ran in the championship rounds..
There is a point system for a reason and oscar scored more regardless of whether he ran in the later rounds.
U ask any Puerto Rican and of course they are gonna say Tito is better but most objective, neutral fans knows Oscar accomplished more..
Oscar > Tito
I'm not Puerto Rican and I'm not neutral. Grew up in Mexican neighborhoods and boxed in Mexican gyms...and Trinidad beat Oscar by a point. They both sucked- don't get that wrong- Oscar was scared and trinidad couldn't get to him. But Felix won by a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Point system means 'by rounds', not by punches.
Oscar won more rounds..Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI'm not Puerto Rican and I'm not neutral. Grew up in Mexican neighborhoods and boxed in Mexican gyms...and Trinidad beat Oscar by a point. They both sucked- don't get that wrong- Oscar was scared and trinidad couldn't get to him. But Felix won by a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Point system means 'by rounds', not by punches.
No. I had it 2-2-1 after five ( and after watching it many times, it is always the same, though I sometimes who I think won which rounds changes). The Oscar won 6,7,8. Then he gave away 9,10,11,12.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaOscar won more rounds..Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI'm not Puerto Rican and I'm not neutral. Grew up in Mexican neighborhoods and boxed in Mexican gyms...and Trinidad beat Oscar by a point. They both sucked- don't get that wrong- Oscar was scared and trinidad couldn't get to him. But Felix won by a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Point system means 'by rounds', not by punches.
Oscar didn't fight the last four like he thought he had it won. He ran like he feared for his life. I think he came into the ring scared, prepared for the fight scared. At some point in the 8th round Trinidad hurt him and it re-ignited that fear. I think it was a hook to the belly late in that round.
Also...Oscar's big punch was the hook, right? In the 4th round or so, Trinidad hooks off the DLH hook and lands. Count the hooks Oscar throws after that. He was scared to death that whole night.
I agree with grey I had it the same, it how you scored the early rounds that mattered which determined the winner.
*I disagree... I think their careers mimick eachothers in many ways... BUT fought impressive opposition... Do I think Tito was more exciting..yea... but DeLaHoya wasn't far behind...Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
And many agree with you, stinkybug. But many disagree also. Consider that the fight was held in Las Vegas, not San Juan. And that Oscar was the darling and the cash cow of the major networks. There was no incentive to rob Oscar. He threw the fight away in the last three rounds, running for his life.
Oscar was the better boxer, yes. But IMO, Trinidad was the better fighter, AND... had the better and more impressive career.
so, the deciding factor is when they went head to head... man, I don't just pick this stuff out of the air... it's right there. the fight happened. If u can't honestly watch that fight and say"DLH won"... then ur simply a Tito fan.
so I read ur post... I haven't done this in awhile, but I had time..i watched the fight again..a fight I had DLH winning years ago by 3 or 4 points.... this is what I got after watching it today. if no even rounds, cuz I hate even rounds...I have 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9 for DLH/ 4,10,11,12 for Tito... if u have even rounds... 1 and 2 maybe even..but for sure not Tito's...in that case I have 3,5,6,7,8,9 DLH to 4,10,11,12
I had no close rounds going to Tito..all his rounds were desisive.
if that doesn't convince u...then let me say that it's on google as one of the worst decisions ever.
if that doesn't change ur mind... compubox had it 263 landed for DLH to 116 for Tito... and that's becuz DLH didn't even throw many punches after the 10th round...
case closed...DeLaHoya was robbed.
p.s... the last rounds DLH stopped throwing... he actually thought he was boxing... BUT through-out the fight...to include the last rounds...what DLH did was nothing less of spectacular boxing..just amazing. the air he had to move like that through-out the fight it incredible.
Unfortunately Kostyas legacy went down the ranks when he didnt pursue Phillips #2 immediatley.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
He was handled and steered back on course after that one.
Full points for taking on a very hungry and extreme trained younger fighter in Hatton (at the time Hatton was going 24 rounds etc) I think Kostya thought he could time him coming in square and break him down,(which in his prime we all recon he would of done on a good night but fate did exactly to him what he did to Chavez at the same stages in their careers.
Threads drifted off from"Legacy" a touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
Did you leave 10 blank so we can fill in our own choice?
*I tend to remember Tyszu hurt a lot as well... BUT ur right, he should've rematched VP ... but I just don't think it was high on his agenda...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreUnfortunately Kostyas legacy went down the ranks when he didnt pursue Phillips #2 immediatley.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstinkybug
He was handled and steered back on course after that one.
Full points for taking on a very hungry and extreme trained younger fighter in Hatton (at the time Hatton was going 24 rounds etc) I think Kostya thought he could time him coming in square and break him down,(which in his prime we all recon he would of done on a good night but fate did exactly to him what he did to Chavez at the same stages in their careers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreThreads drifted off from"Legacy" a touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
Did you leave 10 blank so we can fill in our own choice?
This thread is dedicated to De La hoya, these were the greats who floated around the same divisions in the same era as Oscar but did not receive anywhere near the star power as him, although they were just as good if not better, he fought everybody on this list except Tszyu.
He maid Tito a cash cow post their fight, along with Mayweather and Pac.
There was no great to put at 10, but here are some options
Quartey
Vargas
Forrest
Joppy
Page
Judah lol
Meldric Taylor