Deonty wilder and other american hw's

The comment George Foreman made about Ruiz Being better has small merit even on paper. Both have faught your "bum of the month" BUT Deonty has beaten Liakovich (yes he was on the down) and Audely Harrison.(yes he has a glass jaw) But I do not recognize a single name on Ruiz's list of opponent. Do not get me wrong, I am happy to see both and both seem decent. But Deonty is bringing more excitement with his perfect Record and all by KO. Look at Tysons list at the 30 fight time and you will see that he too faught bums. This is to be expected. Time will tell but Deonty's record and achievments so far are just a little better. He also has an Olyimpic medal! He must, however, now fight only contenders. If he does and KO's a big name or some big names in the same fashion he has been, we have to then be even more excited. he better not fight the Klitchkos yet. It is a no win situation and In hope his handlers recognize this. Deonty is so young and seems to be a big part of the future. If he wins, then he beat a fading champion(s). If he looses, it would be a big setback just like so many others such as Arreola. It is not a bad move and he should not be critized if he did not fight them. I hope he does not get his ego get in front of regular thinking. I am not saying he would not beat either. I actually think he would but it is not a smart move at this time. Let the Klitchkos retire and maybe Deonty could fight Ruiz at one point. We need a change.

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Deonty definitely needs to fight some contenders in order to get me excited. At this point I don't think much of him. The US could use a good heavyweight, it's been a while.

Default Re: Deonty wilder and other american hw's



Deonty definitely needs to fight some contenders in order to get me excited. At this point I don't think much of him. The US could use a good heavyweight, it's been a while.



WHY DO YOU NOT THINK MUCH OF HIM? AGAIN, COMPARE TO TYSONS REUME AND EVEN FOREMAN AND MANY FIGHTERS?

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Deonty wilder and other american hw's

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What other American heavyweights?

The only other decent one folded against an average Brit.

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Originally Posted by vpasqual123

Default Re: Deonty wilder and other american hw's



Deonty definitely needs to fight some contenders in order to get me excited. At this point I don't think much of him. The US could use a good heavyweight, it's been a while.



WHY DO YOU NOT THINK MUCH OF HIM? AGAIN, COMPARE TO TYSONS REUME AND EVEN FOREMAN AND MANY FIGHTERS?

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Ur comparison is retarted and shows how clueless you are. Tyson won his 1st world title about 18 months after turning pro and beat Larry Holmes in under 3 years. Wilder has been a pro over 5 years and had fought no one of note and is making very little signs of progression.

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Originally Posted by vpasqual123

Default Re: Deonty wilder and other american hw's



Deonty definitely needs to fight some contenders in order to get me excited. At this point I don't think much of him. The US could use a good heavyweight, it's been a while.



WHY DO YOU NOT THINK MUCH OF HIM? AGAIN, COMPARE TO TYSONS REUME AND EVEN FOREMAN AND MANY FIGHTERS?

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I can see the point you are making. Tyson fought a lot worse competition in his first 25 or so but he did it rapidly and then made it count when he got his opportunity and the same can be said about Foreman who fought slugs up until the first Frazier fight. So in that sense the comparison is valid.

He's a dangerous guy with that kind of power behind that reach and height but he's a wild man although in fairness he only goes wild once he buzzes somebody. The potential is most definitely there but unfortunately for him he seems to be still developing while at the same time having high expectations placed on him because of the coverage.

He's now called out the brothers and wants them he says before they retire. Well that should not be all that hard in this market. He should plunk his ass down at ring side for the Povetkin fight and then call Wlad out on the broadcast. I dont think Vitali wants to fight anymore. Fighting Oleg Maskaev does nothing for him. They keep saying they want rounds and keep fighting people who cant provide them.

I think Foreman's point was that Andy Ruiz stepped up and destroyed a fellow young, prime undefeated prospect. While Audley Harrison and Liakovich are much more established names than Joe Hanks, the fact is that Audley is 41 and long been considered a joke, and Liakovich had been on a steady decline for 7 years and hadn't won a serious fight since he beat Brewster in '06.

I think thats one thing boxing is missing: the young prospects don't often end up fighting each other. Too many times they feast on stiffs and journeymen, and then move on to has-beens, and then they get the big money fight. These guys should have to fight each other for the priviledge of fighting a Klitschko.

Personally, I think Deontay kills Andy Ruiz. I don't think that's a compeditive fight.

Deontay's resume may not be the greatest, but he has UNDENIABLE physical tools and IMO he has shown boxing skill to go along with it.

Now how is he going to do when a guy stands up to his power and hits him back? Who knows. But Deontay has the potential to be the guy to carry HW boxing in the post-Klitschko era. He is a monster, soft opposition or not.

If Wilder can take a good shot , he could be a big force.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Personally, I think Deontay kills Andy Ruiz. I don't think that's a compeditive fight.

Deontay's resume may not be the greatest, but he has UNDENIABLE physical tools and IMO he has shown boxing skill to go along with it.

Now how is he going to do when a guy stands up to his power and hits him back? Who knows. But Deontay has the potential to be the guy to carry HW boxing in the post-Klitschko era. He is a monster, soft opposition or not.

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Exactly.

And that's why they fight after all. Cleverly is a living, breathing example of what you said and what I have said hundreds of times. Its hard to be on a bit of a downer so early after such a great weekend of fisticuffs but that's the truth of it. Poor kid almost sounds suicidal. That's because he was kept in the dark and fed shit all day from those around him. Probably hasn't heard the word "no" in 5 years.
To many belts, to few money spots, to much emphasis on the 0. That is why at times I get a little pissed off with some of the old vs new comparisons and when people look at the 20 loses on the scratching post and ignore the 200 plus fights or 150 fights. You fight that often and you are going to lose. You might even lose to a sub-par opponent. Better to deal with adversity early.

Having said all that these poor bastards are products of their environment.

He could definitely be the American Nathan Cleverly. We have to wait until he gets in the ring with somebody decent and they hit him on the chin. But there's that huge right hand and you can only be hopeful that he can take a punch, flattens everybody and brings some excitement and some mainstream coverage back to boxing.

I'll buy into him the one time yet to be seen when he faces a fresh viable talent and adversity and conquers it. Ruiz may not be the second coming either, but at least he has done that. Anyone with eyeballs can look at an early Tyson and see Wilder hasn't shown half that physical speed and ability while dispatching of his early cannon fodder. Did anyone actually watch him in the Audley set up?! There is zero comparison. Show us something , until then its all might, maybe, if, could, when, and hope.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Personally, I think Deontay kills Andy Ruiz. I don't think that's a compeditive fight.

Deontay's resume may not be the greatest, but he has UNDENIABLE physical tools and IMO he has shown boxing skill to go along with it.

Now how is he going to do when a guy stands up to his power and hits him back? Who knows. But Deontay has the potential to be the guy to carry HW boxing in the post-Klitschko era. He is a monster, soft opposition or not.

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Exactly.

And that's why they fight after all. Cleverly is a living, breathing example of what you said and what I have said hundreds of times. Its hard to be on a bit of a downer so early after such a great weekend of fisticuffs but that's the truth of it. Poor kid almost sounds suicidal. That's because he was kept in the dark and fed shit all day from those around him. Probably hasn't heard the word "no" in 5 years.
To many belts, to few money spots, to much emphasis on the 0. That is why at times I get a little pissed off with some of the old vs new comparisons and when people look at the 20 loses on the scratching post and ignore the 200 plus fights or 150 fights. You fight that often and you are going to lose. You might even lose to a sub-par opponent. Better to deal with adversity early.

Having said all that these poor bastards are products of their environment.

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I don't really know how anyone could say that Wilder kills Ruiz when Ruiz has been matched tougher than Wilder has. The primary reason that people are skeptical on Wilder is that he has been matched so soft.

I don't even think I would put him in with world beaters at this stage, but how can he improve if he isn't facing someone that is already finished. For example, I'm not suggesting that he get in the ring with Pulev tomorrow. However, there are a ton of heavyweights that they could match him with that would better demonstrate where Wilder's potential lies. Spzilka, Kaufmann, Grano, Hanks, Hamer, Jennings, Mansour, Glazkov, perhaps Chagaev. These guys aren't the top of the division by any means, but at least they are in their prime with winning records. They'll punch back.

Twenty nine or thirty fights now and he's still fighting tomato cans. Unfortunately there's probably a good reason why.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I don't really know how anyone could say that Wilder kills Ruiz when Ruiz has been matched tougher than Wilder has.

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At the end of the day, a resume is only a paper trail. It's two men going into the ring. You don't win a fight by having the best resume.

And it's not like we're talking about a huge difference in resumes. They've both been feeding off bums for the most part. All Ruiz has is one win over an undefeated prospect.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I don't really know how anyone could say that Wilder kills Ruiz when Ruiz has been matched tougher than Wilder has.

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At the end of the day, a resume is only a paper trail. It's two men going into the ring. You don't win a fight by having the best resume.

And it's not like we're talking about a huge difference in resumes. They've both been feeding off bums for the most part. All Ruiz has is one win over an undefeated prospect.

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That's fair, but Ruiz is incredibly unheralded compared with Wilder. If Wilder is as good as they say he is, why haven't they challenged him more? Now, this might be a case of too much hype, too soon. He didn't have a big amateur career etc. That's fine. I guess this is the perfect example of backlash to hype. It's like when Broner's hype train slowed way down after his fight with Paulie Malignaggi. If they weren't making him out to be the next Floyd Mayweather, we would think he was a developing fighter on his way, but making him out to be the next great thing, sort of soured people's view on him once he had some difficulty from a passed his prime, light-punching fighter.

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Originally Posted by vpasqual123

The comment George Foreman made about Ruiz Being better has small merit even on paper. Both have faught your "bum of the month" BUT Deonty has beaten Liakovich (yes he was on the down) and Audely Harrison.(yes he has a glass jaw) But I do not recognize a single name on Ruiz's list of opponent. Do not get me wrong, I am happy to see both and both seem decent. But Deonty is bringing more excitement with his perfect Record and all by KO. Look at Tysons list at the 30 fight time and you will see that he too faught bums. This is to be expected. Time will tell but Deonty's record and achievments so far are just a little better. He also has an Olyimpic medal! He must, however, now fight only contenders. If he does and KO's a big name or some big names in the same fashion he has been, we have to then be even more excited. he better not fight the Klitchkos yet. It is a no win situation and In hope his handlers recognize this. Deonty is so young and seems to be a big part of the future. If he wins, then he beat a fading champion(s). If he looses, it would be a big setback just like so many others such as Arreola. It is not a bad move and he should not be critized if he did not fight them. I hope he does not get his ego get in front of regular thinking. I am not saying he would not beat either. I actually think he would but it is not a smart move at this time. Let the Klitchkos retire and maybe Deonty could fight Ruiz at one point. We need a change.

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I think ol'e boy George has gone daft!!

People forget that Wilder destroyed an undefeated prospect in the name of Kelvin Price... so he has fought a prospect, he demolished him. No doubt Wilder smashes both Hanks and Ruiz. A good prospect for Wilder would be a Bryant Jennings- but I don't wanna see that fight just yet, because I like them both.

Got to love the viral marketing

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

People forget that Wilder destroyed an undefeated prospect in the name of Kelvin Price... so he has fought a prospect, he demolished him. No doubt Wilder smashes both Hanks and Ruiz. A good prospect for Wilder would be a Bryant Jennings- but I don't wanna see that fight just yet, because I like them both.

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Uhm yeah I've never seen this kelvin price fight but dam he musta been a beast cause he was a prospect at 38...shit if that's the gem in wilders record you're really reaching!!!

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

That's fair, but Ruiz is incredibly unheralded compared with Wilder. If Wilder is as good as they say he is, why haven't they challenged him more?

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That's true, but people heralded David Tua a lot more than, let's say, Chris Byrd, who was a much better fighter. He was a knockout artist. Or look at Valero, who people wanted to see against Pac, even though 99% of his resume was against guys who should be flipping burgers. It's easy to get excited about someone who goes out there and destroys people.
Andy Ruiz is a fat boy with 14 ko's in 20 fights. Deontay is a giant who looks like he's carved out of marble and has 28 straight KO's and I don't think he's seen the 6th round in any of them. It's obvious which one people will be more excited about.

But I agree 100% that he should be facing better opposition by now. I think stepping up to Audley Harrison is a decent step up from the stiffs he was fighting, but my problem is he should have stepped up to an Audley Harrison 8 or 9 fights ago, or maybe more.

If he doesn't take on a serious threat in his next fight, he deserves to get shit on.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Andy Ruiz is a fat boy with 14 ko's in 20 fights. Deontay is a giant who looks like he's carved out of marble

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;D

That's what I was thinking. Imagine standing them next to each other and asking people to pick who the better prospect is. They'd think you were having a laugh.

For sure. He looks like a fat baby. He doesn't even look like an athlete. No disrespect to him because looks are deceiving and he for sure can fight, but damn.

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Originally Posted by vendettos

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deonty wilder and other american hw's

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what other american heavyweights?

The only other decent one folded against an average brit.

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my point corrected. There are no other decent american he's i only see wilder and ruiz.

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Originally Posted by beanflicker

for sure. He looks like a fat baby. He doesn't even look like an athlete. No disrespect to him because looks are deceiving and he for sure can fight, but damn.

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deonty is not who you are referring too i hope. He is slim and chisled. Tall and lanky for a hw. 6'7" 224 lbs. Speaking as a former trainer and fighter, i can say this:

"most tall and lanky fighter have or should have very decent power and prime examples are dick tiger and thomas hearns amongst others"

actually, because he is not 250-260+ is one reason some people are counting him out already. Stupid, because he is at a prime weight for boxing given his height.

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No I was talking about Andy Ruiz.

Not winning any Mr Olympia titles any time soon

But it's not a beauty contest. He has physical assets but you could line up power hitters knocking over window washers and guys sculpted like Lee Haney who imploded and fill a few dump trucks. I think Foreman may have been coming at it from seeing Ruiz having just a little more substance over Wilders piled on packaging and push. That and being closer to a Ruiz physique in comeback and also laughed at, or seeing as how Deontay is a Olympic medalist like himself?! I think fans have learned to look beyond the window displays pumped up today and look for proof.

Having said all this:

Who do we all think is the better prospect? I think deonty runs away with it and i am quite shocked to see ruiz's name even mentioned with deonty's. would never had thought of him if foreman had not made his comments.

shocked!!!

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Deontay for sure. To me, he's doing the right things like training with the Klitschko's and learning about distance. If a guy with his reach and power learns how to utilize reach and distance, he's going to be a motherfucker to fight.

Andy Ruiz to be honest strikes me as a poor man's Chris Arreola so far. Big fat guy, relatively short reach for a heavyweight.

Honestly, people can talk shit all they want about Deontay's opposition, but you had to pick a guy to potentially carry the HW division post Klitschko era, would you really pick Ruiz over Deontay? Come on...

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Originally Posted by beanflicker

deontay for sure. To me, he's doing the right things like training with the klitschko's and learning about distance. If a guy with his reach and power learns how to utilize reach and distance, he's going to be a motherfucker to fight.

Andy ruiz to be honest strikes me as a poor man's chris arreola so far. Big fat guy, relatively short reach for a heavyweight.

Honestly, people can talk shit all they want about deontay's opposition, but you had to pick a guy to potentially carry the hw division post klitschko era, would you really pick ruiz over deontay? Come on...

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finally a knowledgable boxing person!!!! This ruiz deonty thing has been driving me crazy. All and i mean all contacts i have with anyone who even knows boxing a bit can not believe foremans comments.

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Andy Ruiz and John McDermott were seperated at birth.

^hahah

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

People forget that Wilder destroyed an undefeated prospect in the name of Kelvin Price... so he has fought a prospect, he demolished him. No doubt Wilder smashes both Hanks and Ruiz. A good prospect for Wilder would be a Bryant Jennings- but I don't wanna see that fight just yet, because I like them both.

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Uhm yeah I've never seen this kelvin price fight but dam he musta been a beast cause he was a prospect at 38...shit if that's the gem in wilders record you're really reaching!!!

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Let's be fair to what's taking place today- age doesn't determine a fighter's ability anymore. Bernard Hopkins- as much of a freak of nature he is- has dispelled that.

Particularly for HW's, a good and athletic guy can start at 21-22 and go well into his early 40's by having about 35-45 fights. Sure, a good portion of them will be bums he fought in about a 2-3 year stretch, but if he shows PROMISE in the gym- which a lot of us discount in our rantings and ramblings on the internet- he can prove to be a good fighter.

So, let's be fair now.