I think that's his only problem. He is just not aggressive enough for a professional. He needs to ask himself if he wants it at this level...
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I think that's his only problem. He is just not aggressive enough for a professional. He needs to ask himself if he wants it at this level...
Hes playing the waiting game.
Letting froch and groves battle it out and see if he can pick up the pieces.
True. In a nutshell, I think he's a fringe contender level fighter.
Nonsense. He is just not aggressive enough. Groves will get slaughtered by Froch and Degale is no where NEAR being able to cope with Froch's pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Degale needs to become more vicious... hit a guy 5 times in the face on the way down after a vicious shot.
He plays around in the ring too much. He needs to fight.
Now I much prefer Groves to DeGale, but if you know your boxing you can clearly see that DeGale would give Froch more problems than Groves but I believe they could both beat Froch on their best day.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaNonsense. He is just not aggressive enough. Groves will get slaughtered by Froch and Degale is no where NEAR being able to cope with Froch's pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Degale needs to become more vicious... hit a guy 5 times in the face on the way down after a vicious shot.
He plays around in the ring too much. He needs to fight.
Froch struggles against quick, defensive, "not aggressive" fighters like Ward and quick aggressive fighters like Taylor.
You are overestimating aggression, but DeGale has some very good tools.
I personally think he's just not good at using them.
degale will be world champ one day
and groves and degale both have a very good chance of beating froch
I believe in a rematch degale will beat groves
I like groves though and would be shouting his corner in that fight
Wtf?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Based on what? What has DeGale done since the Groves fight? Who has he fought?
The euro title that is it. Which was a snoozefest, just like pretty much all his fights since Groves.
Groves has been KOing decent level fighters every fight since he fought DeGale, now he is the Mandatory world challenger. I think DeGale is lucky to be as high as he is in the rankings.
I think Groves stops DeGale early if they fight again, simply because Groves seems to have improved a lot since their fight, whereas DeGale at best has stayed the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosWtf?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Based on what? What has DeGale done since the Groves fight? Who has he fought?
The euro title that is it. Which was a snoozefest, just like pretty much all his fights since Groves.
Groves has been KOing decent level fighters every fight since he fought DeGale, now he is the Mandatory world challenger. I think DeGale is lucky to be as high as he is in the rankings.
I think Groves stops DeGale early if they fight again, simply because Groves seems to have improved a lot since their fight, whereas DeGale at best has stayed the same.
yes groves opposition has been decent but no better than degales
who has he beat that degale wouldn't? if you put both their opponents together which is the best?
in terms of belts as you bring it up, degale has won the European and the wbc silver
groves has defended the british, won the commonwealth and an inter-continental
degales achievements are probably marginally better, not that I think it means anything really, just answering your question :)
I agree DeGale would have beaten them but he didnt, Groves has fought better opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosWtf?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Based on what? What has DeGale done since the Groves fight? Who has he fought?
The euro title that is it. Which was a snoozefest, just like pretty much all his fights since Groves.
Groves has been KOing decent level fighters every fight since he fought DeGale, now he is the Mandatory world challenger. I think DeGale is lucky to be as high as he is in the rankings.
I think Groves stops DeGale early if they fight again, simply because Groves seems to have improved a lot since their fight, whereas DeGale at best has stayed the same.
yes groves opposition has been decent but no better than degales
who has he beat that degale wouldn't? if you put both their opponents together which is the best?
in terms of belts as you bring it up, degale has won the European and the wbc silver
groves has defended the british, won the commonwealth and an inter-continental
degales achievements are probably marginally better, not that I think it means anything really, just answering your question :)
As far as the Achievements go, Groves is fighting fora world title,while DeGale is still fighting at euro level.
As far as Groves is concerned, he by passed the Euro level straight to world.
I would argue that since their fight degale has fought the best fighter either has fought, and im not sure in general groves opposition has been betterQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosI agree DeGale would have beaten them but he didnt, Groves has fought better opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosWtf?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Based on what? What has DeGale done since the Groves fight? Who has he fought?
The euro title that is it. Which was a snoozefest, just like pretty much all his fights since Groves.
Groves has been KOing decent level fighters every fight since he fought DeGale, now he is the Mandatory world challenger. I think DeGale is lucky to be as high as he is in the rankings.
I think Groves stops DeGale early if they fight again, simply because Groves seems to have improved a lot since their fight, whereas DeGale at best has stayed the same.
yes groves opposition has been decent but no better than degales
who has he beat that degale wouldn't? if you put both their opponents together which is the best?
in terms of belts as you bring it up, degale has won the European and the wbc silver
groves has defended the british, won the commonwealth and an inter-continental
degales achievements are probably marginally better, not that I think it means anything really, just answering your question :)
As far as the Achievements go, Groves is fighting fora world title,while DeGale is still fighting at euro level.
As far as Groves is concerned, he by passed the Euro level straight to world.
you say that groves has passed euro level straight to world, but he hasn't yet, he hasn't fought at euro level, yes he will get a crack at the world title before degale
on paper groves last fight seemed to be a tough one but it didn't turn out that way
to be fair both have fought a similar level of fighter since, in terms of titles degale has progressed more but groves has the chance to hit the peak first
I hope he wins and I hope they fight again and I hope he wins again :)
DeGay isn't aggressive enough also he isn't good enough.
He needs to sort out his promoter shit and then try and get some momentum. 17 fights in four and half years. Headlining Kent shopping centres.
I think Groves has improved way past him. If they fought now I'd bet on Groves to KO him.
its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Groves fighting for a world title encapsulates my overall point on Degale- he isn't aggressive enough. And fighters who are not aggressive, you have to question their heart and skill level and their confidence in their skill level.
Groves FEELS confident enough and has a better mean spirit (for lack of a better term) than Degale. That's the main difference between those two.
Degale not just needs to step it up in terms of fighters he's facing, but he needs to become more aggressive in the ring. If he ain't come to kill nobody in the ring, don't bother stepping into it.
In the Groves fight, Degale was supposed to be all over Groves. He let Groves off of the hook, being soft, taking breaks in rounds and slacking off- he lost on points as a result of that.
It's clear Degale has the chin, he also has the skill- whether he becomes a world champion or not depends on not just his heart, but how quickly he can bring the heat straight down the middle of the pike.
Groves apparently is ready to bring that heat- regardless of the skills or tools Groves has. You have to respect that about him over Degale.
Compare Froch to both of them... do you see Froch slacking around in the ring, being soft, backing off and letting guys off the hook when he has them? Even in fights he was losing on points- to Taylor and to Ward, Froch NEVER stepped back and gave up because he BELIEVED he should 1. not only be in there, but 2. that he had a chance to win that fight, and FIGHT because that's what he was/is being paid to do- regardless of how the fight was/is going.
Same thing with Manny Pacquiao when he tried to change his personal habits to become a more softer and gentler Manny- two straight losses, one by vicious ko. Manny "says" he is back to the old Manny- I can only hope so, because not only do I wanna see action vs. Rios, but I don't want anyone to get hurt based on being a soft-cow.
Sure, a fighter getting hurt, going out in a blaze of glory is one thing- swinging while you're going down. But, to get hurt because you came to the ring slacking off? Backing away? Giving space? Or to lose because you want to be lethargic? WTF?? What about your training all of those months??
Degale has to become more aggressive, or it will be a very short and non-descript career for him. He has the tools, he has the chin, he also has moderate power- he just needs to get that killer mentality. He has to.
While Ward and Degale both won Olympic Gold Medals, Ward at the 04 Olympics and Degale at the 08, and while they both have the same temperament and calm/sensible demeanor about them, the main difference between them as pro's is that when Ward steps into the ring, he knows that while he is a very skilled boxer, he also has to fight and fight hard...
As boring as they say Ward is, the fact that his disposition in the ring when he fights is clear- clear in terms of who's the boss, who has more aggression and who comes to REALLY fight.
Degale needs to watch Ward to see what we're talking about. Ward comes to let his hands go and mix it up. Degale is still trying to be the nice guy at the wrong time- come to fight, or go home with a broken spirit, broken mind and broken body!!
That and the issue of Degale's promoter. Whoever it is, they are doing a terrible job at handling him. I hope they don't destroy him like how they are looking to destroy David Price and how they killed Audley Harrison and NEARLY ended David Haye.
Just like the illusion that is your boxing knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
ha jesusQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosJust like the illusion that is your boxing knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
is that the end of our debate then?
Sorry mate, let me clear this up.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44ha jesusQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosJust like the illusion that is your boxing knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
is that the end of our debate then?
I am a fairly open minded guy, I take people's opinions and points and if they're right and I am wrong, then I take it on the chin and I am happy that I've learned something in the argument.
Or if the person is wrong and disagrees with me but still accepts my points to an extent while sticking by their own, I respect that even if I disagree with them.
But then there are people so blatantly wrong and unwilling to listen to anything but the voices of the unjustly large egos they've created inside their unfathomably small heads. These people get swiftly dropped from the appointments they had with my patience.
You fit somewhere between scenario 2-3.
I will add that this is not intended as an insult, it's just honesty.
honestly pal, I would say that currently you are closer to number 3Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosSorry mate, let me clear this up.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44ha jesusQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosJust like the illusion that is your boxing knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
is that the end of our debate then?
I am a fairly open minded guy, I take people's opinions and points and if they're right and I am wrong, then I take it on the chin and I am happy that I've learned something in the argument.
Or if the person is wrong and disagrees with me but still accepts my points to an extent while sticking by their own, I respect that even if I disagree with them.
But then there are people so blatantly wrong and unwilling to listen to anything but the voices of the unjustly large egos they've created inside their unfathomably small heads. These people get swiftly dropped from the appointments they had with my patience.
You fit somewhere between scenario 2-3.
I will add that this is not intended as an insult, it's just honesty.
I am willing to hear your point and perhaps consider you dropping somewhere nearer to number 2, but so far you have said nothing to back anything up you have said
all you have said is groves has fought better fighters than degale, I don't agree, I believe their opposition has been very similar and if anything degales has been slightly tougher
I think the only reason groves is above degale in the rankings is because of their fight (which is understandable)
It's not just for the fact that he's knocking people out, it's the experience he gained from fighting a Glen Johnson, or the excellent knockout of one of the top British fighters of the division in Paul Smith.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44honestly pal, I would say that currently you are closer to number 3Quote:
Originally Posted by VendettosSorry mate, let me clear this up.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44ha jesusQuote:
Originally Posted by VendettosJust like the illusion that is your boxing knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
is that the end of our debate then?
I am a fairly open minded guy, I take people's opinions and points and if they're right and I am wrong, then I take it on the chin and I am happy that I've learned something in the argument.
Or if the person is wrong and disagrees with me but still accepts my points to an extent while sticking by their own, I respect that even if I disagree with them.
But then there are people so blatantly wrong and unwilling to listen to anything but the voices of the unjustly large egos they've created inside their unfathomably small heads. These people get swiftly dropped from the appointments they had with my patience.
You fit somewhere between scenario 2-3.
I will add that this is not intended as an insult, it's just honesty.
I am willing to hear your point and perhaps consider you dropping somewhere nearer to number 2, but so far you have said nothing to back anything up you have said
all you have said is groves has fought better fighters than degale, I don't agree, I believe their opposition has been very similar and if anything degales has been slightly tougher
I think the only reason groves is above degale in the rankings is because of their fight (which is understandable)
Or again maybe the knockout of a heavy puncher in Sierra?
I don't see how the guys DeGale fought are better when HALF of the guys he fought since Groves were coming off of losses mate, come on.
You just have to look. You wanna fight for a world title but your fighting unknown fighters coming off of losses?
Only 1 of Groves opponents since Degale came in off a loss and that was Johnson, the rest all came into fight groves after a win and he KOd them all.
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I personally think Groves has looked much more solid over the last year or so. A year ago I thought he had zero chance against Froch, now I think it could be a good fight.
I just think Groves is a far better fighter than DeGay ,Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterMaybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44its a marketing illusionQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I personally think Groves has looked much more solid over the last year or so. A year ago I thought he had zero chance against Froch, now I think it could be a good fight.
DeGay still throws the over hand shot like he is swinging an axe , he is one paced and average for my money.
I have warmed to De Gale since he has been on channel 5. he only just lost to Groves and the fight could have gone either way. I think both have progressed well for the limited fights they have had and there is no way De Gale will get a fight with Froch as he is with another promoter. He has been interviewed in boxing news this week and his best bet would be Biko.
You mean with Sakio Bika? I can like that fight for him. It's a BIG step up. But Bika is beatable, he punches hard, but very beatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Bika's last outing vs. Perriban showed me that after all of these years, Bika's skill level is going to be what it is- like a Ricardo Mayorga. Very awkward and very wild.
If Degale boxes and moves then this can be a very easy UD for a belt for him.
that would set up a good fight with Froch/Groves or even the middleweights below like Macklin and Murray.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaYou mean with Sakio Bika? I can like that fight for him. It's a BIG step up. But Bika is beatable, he punches hard, but very beatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Bika's last outing vs. Perriban showed me that after all of these years, Bika's skill level is going to be what it is- like a Ricardo Mayorga. Very awkward and very wild.
If Degale boxes and moves then this can be a very easy UD for a belt for him.
James Degale's gob is pretty aggressive, that's about it.
Groves has come on leaps and bounds since their fight, and Froch has no good reason to give him a shot.
He's a nightclub fighter who just picked the wrong promoter because he thought it would be easy life, then he met George Groves. He will never recover from that because of Groves significant improvements in performance since.
Master fight selection and judgement by Adam Booth at the time I think, yet again he stuffs one up Warren.
DeGay made his pro debut as Olympic champion and he was booed by a British crowd in his first fight.
That sums him up for me , he just isnt that good a pro , doesn't fight enough and he thinks he is way better than he actually is.
ya.. He's like a C level fighter and has very low boxing IQ..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
I remember him talking so much shit about Groves. He sounds pretty stupid
he was booed because he is a nob, not really anything to do with his boxing abilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44he was booed because he is a nob, not really anything to do with his boxing abilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
He was booed because he talks big and fights like a twat.
Hey... I notice he still gets booed from his own crowd. The Groves fight could have gone either way. I think they handed it to Groves because Groves showed more heart in the ring and more positivity about the fight.
With that being said, there is NOTHING wrong with DeGale's skills. He has decent power. What he doesn't have is the right fighting attitude.
All the talk aside, someone like a Naseem Hamed had oddles of bad attitude- but he more than made up for it in the ring with exciting and convincing wins. You know why? Hamed came to fight- and fight hard and be aggressive and hit people.
DeGale needs to learn that OR get out of the ring.
On this current path, he will be a non-descript Olympian who "may" win a minor belt, or even a piece of the world title, but nothing more.
He has the talent and skills to be much more than that.
As Brits we don't like a lot of talk!
Unless your talk is what Groves did, he soaked up the bs DeGale said and basically said "we shall see in the ring" and we did.
I had Groves a bit further ahead than the judges did but that's my opinion.
DeGale has developed a little power which he needs, and he needs to lose the shoulder roll sort of style he's developed and be more aggressive.
Basically, he needs to forget all of that fancy stuff and all of that technical posing in the ring that "may" have helped him win that Olympic Gold Medal, and fight.... just fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
RJJ/Hamed/Mayweather/Broner all pose from time to time and look stylish, but they never forget to kick a dude's arse. Degale needs to kick arse first and then pose.
DeGale can learn a lot from Calzaghe and Froch- how Calzaghe puts up such high punch outputs and how Froch keeps it going and coming at you, all night long.