So underrated this guy. Huge power, great workrate, underrated boxing skill. He was outboxing Martinez until the cut IMO.
It's a shame he let the booze ruin him as a fighter, he was really fun to watch.
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So underrated this guy. Huge power, great workrate, underrated boxing skill. He was outboxing Martinez until the cut IMO.
It's a shame he let the booze ruin him as a fighter, he was really fun to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJTUMPyfojg
Boxing needs more fights like this, and less like Klitschko/Povetkin!
Kelly proved that he wasn't able to deal with adversity and was mentally weak when pushed, he would crumble which is a shame
What? when was this proved?
Say what you like about the guy the Miranda fight was special. Gripping fight that looked like it could go either way.
I don't think mentally weak is accurate, he never quit that takes a certain fortitude...he did lack the ability to adapt inside the ring and obviously his inner demons outside the ring are proving/proved to much to overcome to have a long career.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
I think he lacked the physical tools to adapt to certain styles, he wasn't remotely "weak" or anything like that. He was a great accumulative puncher when he got into a rhythm, but since he wasn't nearly as fast or slick as some he sort of died by the same sword once he was getting beat to the punch. Perhaps he wasn't always in top condition, and he didn't have a rock solid chin either, but there was never a point in a fight where he stopped trying to win imo.
Taylor beat him in the rematch, FACT
Actually scratch that, it seemed a nip and tuck fight when I watched it live. Pavlik pretty much steam rolled him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
Great fight, Larry getting all steamed up and Lennox providing shite commentary. It had it all.
he had heart, but I mean that he wasn't able to deal with emotion in a positive way, it reflected in and out of the ringQuote:
Originally Posted by arminI don't think mentally weak is accurate, he never quit that takes a certain fortitude...he did lack the ability to adapt inside the ring and obviously his inner demons outside the ring are proving/proved to much to overcome to have a long career.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Go watch the Hopkins fight. He pretty much stopped trying the last half of the fight. He continued coming forward but everybody knew he needed a knock out. And he never even tried for it. Hopkins exposed him as being one-dimensional. Hopkins took away Trinidad's left hook and left him hopeless. With Pavlik he took away his right hand. Pavlik had no idea what to do than.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
That is pretty much the thick of it but @ElTerribleMorales has a point even if he was just referencing the Hopkins fight. I kept telling people that the old dog was going to school him because his rinse and repeat style was ready made for Hop.I think that fight took him over the edge. He believed all of his own hype and the pundits that had him as the huge favourite in the fight. He was most likely already teetering on the edge or at least well into the pickling process before that fight but after that the guy was done really.Quote:
Originally Posted by arminI don't think mentally weak is accurate, he never quit that takes a certain fortitude...he did lack the ability to adapt inside the ring and obviously his inner demons outside the ring are proving/proved to much to overcome to have a long career.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
I've seen that fight a handful of times. I know you have a pretty broad idea of what giving up means, but I don't buy that. He couldn't land flush on Hopkins late on, all of his energy was being used against him the whole fight, that's exactly what I meant. Had he tried to force the issue he would have most likely gotten knocked out himself. He was kept on a leash and had his output reduced to nothing, but he was still trying. There's a difference between not being effective and not going postal and getting stretchered out once you're behind.
The first Taylor fight was something special. It was clear he wasn't the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree as it was in Hopkins and Martinez fight but he came back in a big way there. Last time I saw him go wobbly and nearly get ko'd laughing at a guy. Crazy moment. I do think he resigned himself in Hopkins fight, he didn't quit but Hopkins schooled badly and he knew it late.
Obviously he didn't quit. And yes he was still coming forward throwing the same thing over and over. But like I said everybody knew he needed a knock out. And he never went for it. He had accepted his defeatQuote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
I like pavlik and even as late as till a few months ago was hoping he would make a successful comeback. hell the only person who outclassed him was hop, and he was just the latest in a long line of many who that happened to. As it is now I just wish him the best and hope that he can overcome his addictions and lead a relatively normal life, hopefully he doesn't pop in the news in the future for something worse than "skipped out on cab fare".
Yup. Many were never the same after Hop. Tito, Taylor, Tarver, Pavlik and maybe Cloud.
goddammmm!!!!!!!!!!!! i just watched the first 2 rounds and its a fucking slugfest from the 20's holky fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i enjoyed pavlik
his first win over taylor was a cracking fight and a very nice KO
I would say he was overrated if anything. The guy was billed as the second coming of Tommy Hearns and he didn't really dominate the division like people thought he would. He was a massively entertaining fighter though and I always enjoyed watching him scrap.
Pavlik was on a wreck for a short time. At his best, he was really something..
The loss to bernard affected him alot..
Pavlik was a very good fighter and the reason he lost to Hopkins so badly was largely the fact that it was at LHW when Pavlik was a MW. He should never have signed the fight. It was a stupid decision. Hopkins had grown into the weight and Pavlik thought he would walk through a LHW. Silly.
Pavliks other loss to Martinez was a close fight and the best win Martinez has. Pavlik had worked him out in the middle rounds, but got cut, and you sense that like with Hatton towards the end, his stamina simply wasn't there like it had been. That was the difference.
Pavlik lost heart and I was disappointed that he retired. Obviously he was quite troubled and changing trainers wasn't the answer as the problems with Pavlik were there in his hometown too.
Pavlik achieved a lot and did very well, but I just feel that he could have been a bit more.
He was the underdog against Miranda and obviously Taylor. So you could argue he overachieved. There are numerous examples of people handling the role of underdog much easier than favourite.
Cloud is a pressure fighter, he just aged out of being effective as pressure fighters are want to doQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
At both guy's best weight, Taylor was brutally knocked out in a big upset. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
He had a good potential and a great attitude at the start. Then he collapsed mentally and went on vacations with his old demons only to come back with the biggest collection of ugly tattoos ever. Since then, he's wondering like a lost soul in a no man's land.
I'm sorry to hear about his problems.
However, as a fighter - while he had a decent Rocky style backstory - he was a crude fighter, strong and willing, good rhythm pressure box/puncher. Tough and committed.
He was not a skilled boxer, nor a chilling one shot hitter and he was easy to hit. That's why his fights were fun.
If he was fighting in another good decade, he would be a tough 'gatekeeper' who people would have had to beat on their way to a title shot against the champ.
A Robbie Sims, Yvonne Durrell, Gerry Quarry type.
True, but Taylor's lifestyle (and his stamina) caught up to him much like Pavlik's did....all a matter of timing really. Imagine if they had met pre-Hopkins....that would have been a better scrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratAt both guy's best weight, Taylor was brutally knocked out in a big upset. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I've got nothing against Kelly, he was a good hardnosed fighter
I was a huge fan of Taylor, but Pavlik beat the shit out of him.
....in the first fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I don't remember the 2nd to be honest. I was a big Taylor fan and was disappointed when he lost again.