Who wins!? Pavlik when he beat Miranda, Taylor & Lockett or Golovkin who's just beaten Stevens & Macklin ?
It's a pick em for me!
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Who wins!? Pavlik when he beat Miranda, Taylor & Lockett or Golovkin who's just beaten Stevens & Macklin ?
It's a pick em for me!
Id pick Pavlik.
Stevens hit Golovkin plenty but I doubt he had the weight of punch that Pavlik does he also doesn't have his strength or will to win.
Pavlik was a deceivingly good fighter. He looked slow and basic but he was strong and had good fundamentals and if Golovkin did move up and face Froch he would find out somewhat what it would have been like to face Pavlik.
Golovkin doesnt move his head, his power is intimidating fighters to perform but even Stevens who was beaten by Brinkley was encouraged to throw against him. Its just a stregth advantage like Abraham had. Remember what everyone thought of Abraham before he moved to supermiddle and that to me is Golovkin.
Golovkin may fare just as baddly as abraham did if he moved up to supermiddle but that's because I think he's already an undersized middle not due to their similarity of styles. I don't think golo and abraham are at all alike in their style. Golo has yet to rely on his power to bail him out, its not like he looses rounds being outboxed and then lands a hail mary punch like abe had a tendency to do. I would have loved to have seen this and and would have been epic probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Great matchup. I think Golovkins work rate would carry him to victory. But, he's never tasted power like Pavliks right hand. Pavlik could box a bit too as evidenced by the second Taylor fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
Abraham and Golovkin are nothing alike aside from having power imo, in fact the way Stevens fought Golovkin was more of an Abraham approach. GGG has a good workrate considering his poise, he creates his own openings behind the jab and doesn't give rounds away.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I think Pavlik was willing to sponge too many punches in order to make his own point and Golovkin is levels above with just more gears. He can fight behind the jab to set up body work and the way Pavlik had to set up shop first would work bad against him and keep Kelly on his heels big time.
I'm still not completely sold on GGG. I think Pavlik was a beast and broke down fighters that wanted to stand in front of him. Pavlik by knockout in a bloody battle.
Pavlik would fuck his shit up.. GGG needs to stop speaking english cuz he sounds rubbish.. Good boy Good boy sounds fuckin retarded.
Prime Pavlik would kill his ass
Agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
You are wrong, Sir. GGG would do the same thing to Pavlik that he did to Stevens.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
I do agree that he should talk through an interpreter. He sounded bad, but showed a set of testes you don't see every day, in the attempt.
The GGG-Abraham comparison is weird. They fight nothing alike. Pavlik might have had success forcing him onto the backfoot. But remember Taylor had Pavlik stumbling all over the shop like a pisshead. Exciting fight whilst it lasts before Pavlik is ironed out.
Golovkin seems to be getting a bit of stick over the Stevens fight, but it was Stevens who went into his shell, if GGG had got a bit reckless and then splattered by one of those big lefthooks there'd be a hundred "I told you he was a hype job" threads
The words you use are not correct English , so what's your point ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
GGG ALL DAY! Pavlik is one dimensional and a little ponderous. He was a very big middleweight but I think GGG has enough defense and enough brains to land his hardest shots and a good enough chin to take Pavlik's punches.
It would be a hell of a scrap though
I'll take GGG but really it's a crazy pick-em fight to me. I think Kelly was really underrated for his boxing skill.
GGG would win he is a quality fighter and operator. Pavlik hit hard and could box a little but he was put down by Miranda and Taylor and Golovkin would punish and finish him off if he had that chance.
I've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think the excessive alcohol also took its toll on him by that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
Only if he had stayed at 160. Once he moved up, he has had much less success. The Hopkins fight is a perfect example. By the way, it made no sense to take that fight. Why face Hopkins at 170 in his second fight above 160? Why not fight once or twice more at a catchweight of 165 or at super middleweight?Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think he relied on his physicality at 160 to be effective, which is fine, but when that went, he didn't have that extra umph to set himself apart from the competition. If you think about it, what's his best win above 160?
At 160, Pavlik versus GGG would have been one heck of a scrap. I haven't seen GGG beat anyone as good as a prime Jermain Taylor yet. If GGG walks through Murray, I'll reassess the question.
Pavlik V GGG one winner Golovkin, all I could is Pavlik taking a bad beating, what ever you think
Kelly would have been poleaxed.
JT, not an extremely big power puncher rocked the hell out of Kelly. GGG is a different ball game! GGG would pour on the pressure and really work over Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Pavlik-Quillen is a better more even matchup
Wouldn't you agree that from what we've seen a prime Pavlik is a much better boxer than current Kid Choc?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongJT, not an extremely big power puncher rocked the hell out of Kelly. GGG is a different ball game! GGG would pour on the pressure and really work over Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Pavlik-Quillen is a better more even matchup
Pavlik had serious boxing skill IMO, hard stinging jab, great stamina, great punch output, tough as nails.
Yeah he got put down by JT (I don't remember Miranda knocking him down) but that was an accumulation of blows from a great combo, which he easily recovered from.
GGG might win but it wouldn't be a cake walk. He'd have to eat a ton of hard leather himself to get the W.
If I remember right pavlik was bein overly cocky and stuck his chin out like an idiot and that led to the kdQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Not sure that the weight was a major factor here. I think it was a style thing and I remember being I think 1 of 2 people on another forum picking Hopkins via schooling. Even the die hard fans of Hopkins were picking Pavlik to win and many were picking Kelly by stoppage across the net and boxing world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratOnly if he had stayed at 160. Once he moved up, he has had much less success. The Hopkins fight is a perfect example. By the way, it made no sense to take that fight. Why face Hopkins at 170 in his second fight above 160? Why not fight once or twice more at a catchweight of 165 or at super middleweight?Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think he relied on his physicality at 160 to be effective, which is fine, but when that went, he didn't have that extra umph to set himself apart from the competition. If you think about it, what's his best win above 160?
At 160, Pavlik versus GGG would have been one heck of a scrap. I haven't seen GGG beat anyone as good as a prime Jermain Taylor yet. If GGG walks through Murray, I'll reassess the question.
After all he just ko'd the guy that beat him twice and then followed it up with a 12 round beating with a catch I think of 166. Pavliks people thought that Hopkins would take them over the top stardom wise and were most likely confident on winning and winning big. Imo the Taylor Kelly fought was not the same fighter that Hopkins fought and I don't think they actually considered that. They were to busy riding the wave. I'm not sure Kelly beats the same Taylor Bernard fought.
I think that Russian freak knocks Pavlik out.
From a styles point of view, Bernard had Kelly's number. No doubt. On the other hand, to face a fighter of Bernard's caliber at 170, the highest weight Kelly had ever fought at, with 20/20 hindsight wasn't the right move. A twelve round beating on Taylor at 166, after knocking him out, isn't a true foray into a higher weight class.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitNot sure that the weight was a major factor here. I think it was a style thing and I remember being I think 1 of 2 people on another forum picking Hopkins via schooling. Even the die hard fans of Hopkins were picking Pavlik to win and many were picking Kelly by stoppage across the net and boxing world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratOnly if he had stayed at 160. Once he moved up, he has had much less success. The Hopkins fight is a perfect example. By the way, it made no sense to take that fight. Why face Hopkins at 170 in his second fight above 160? Why not fight once or twice more at a catchweight of 165 or at super middleweight?Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think he relied on his physicality at 160 to be effective, which is fine, but when that went, he didn't have that extra umph to set himself apart from the competition. If you think about it, what's his best win above 160?
At 160, Pavlik versus GGG would have been one heck of a scrap. I haven't seen GGG beat anyone as good as a prime Jermain Taylor yet. If GGG walks through Murray, I'll reassess the question.
After all he just ko'd the guy that beat him twice and then followed it up with a 12 round beating with a catch I think of 166. Pavliks people thought that Hopkins would take them over the top stardom wise and were most likely confident on winning and winning big. Imo the Taylor Kelly fought was not the same fighter that Hopkins fought and I don't think they actually considered that. They were to busy riding the wave. I'm not sure Kelly beats the same Taylor Bernard fought.
I think that Russian freak knocks Pavlik out.
However, the bottom line is that Kelly wasn't effective over 160. His best win is that win over Taylor. That's really all he's done since leaving the middleweight division. I just think he was tall and long at 160, but he lost those advantages above that.
The question here is whether he would be able to hold GGG at bay with his jab and right hand. I'm not sure he can, but GGG hasn't faced anyone at Pavlik's level yet. Not even close.
I've never seen Pavlik as some masterful boxer and really he sabotaged what was a great frame a lot of the time. Never looked to set guys on end of a snap jab and he would get a step ahead of himself with power on the inside. Golovkin has a compact power jab in there, great for flat feet often in a straight line. I think of war horse McKart seriously pounding his body and knocking him off balance for the KD. Golovkin is just to dang deep.
Golovkin sends him to the bar before the 4th round
You're right. Pavlik may not have been dropped if he wasn't messing around sticking his chin out. Showed abit of inexperience there but usually always shows good punch resistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by arminIf I remember right pavlik was bein overly cocky and stuck his chin out like an idiot and that led to the kdQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
If he were to meet Golovkin his feet would need to be a lot quicker and if he wasn't able to land something big early on if would be a pretty brutal beating for him. It's hard to picture anyone bullying Pavlik but I think that's the way it would go with GGG wearing him down round after round and forcing a stoppage.
I've always blamed Pavlik's downward slide on Jack Loew for accepting the Hopkins fight.
I can still remember Loew saying, "It isn't if we are going to knock Hopkins out, it's which round." What a mistake! Overlooking Hopkins, probably not the worst mistake in boxing, but pretty close.
Yeah blame the guy who accepted a fight in which his fighter received a career high payday. What a skanless muthafukka that Jack Loew isQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed