froch didnt do terrible in the fight against groves

i actually had it scored 5-3 for groves (not adding in the KD). by what dan rafael and the british commentators said, you would have thought that froch did nothing and that groves was punishing him the whole fight. that just isnt true. i do believe that groves was winning but froch definitely had his moments and even his rounds. rafael was saying that froch just looked horrible. i disagree. froch looked normal to me. he isnt that fast and is usually there to be hit. i wasnt surprised that he eventually got to groves to win because thats the type of fighter he is. he isnt great technically but he is very resilient.

also, the stoppage was terrible. you cant stop the fight when the other fighter is still swinging. especially if that fighter is winning or has a good chance to win. and it was also a title fight.

I think I had it 6-2 after 8. I was thinking that froch looked off all night but he got caught early, hard, and often. It may have taken him a few rounds to recover. early on they were trying to kill one another. Groves was trying to counter the Froch jab with a right hand, froch trying to counter with his right, then Groves with his, and both punching very hard. I expected somebody to get kod spectacularly. Froch got caught and survived, but it may have taken him some time to recover.

I dissagree

I think Groves stepped up when it mattered and showed everyone that he's the real deal, fierce combo of speed and power and he schooled Froch for me ;-)

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Originally Posted by smashup

I dissagree

I think Groves stepped up when it mattered and showed everyone that he's the real deal, fierce combo of speed and power and he schooled Froch for me ;-)

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He did- wasn't anybody else that hit froch and hurt him. but he let him off.

I had it 78-71.

Froch is too slow for Groves, terrible stoppage saved him his belts.

Groves is the best British fighter right now.. I was in awe watching him fight with so much conviction. That's was exactly the kind of attitude all young fighters should bring to a fight.

Froch talked that shit and got owned. lol The knockdown punch by Groves was one of the most beautiful right hands ive seen in a while. It was thrown at a perfect time and the placement couldnt have been better. That punch was thrown with so much force it fuckin landed twice, went right through his chin and landed on the collar bone..

Froch is done

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Groves is the best British fighter right now.. I was in awe watching him fight with so much conviction. That's was exactly the kind of attitude all young fighters should bring to a fight.

Froch talked that shit and got owned. lol The knockdown punch by Groves was one of the most beautiful right hands ive seen in a while. It was thrown at a perfect time and the placement couldnt have been better. That punch was thrown with so much force it fuckin landed twice, went right through his chin and landed on the collar bone..

Froch is done

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Was that the perfect punch that Froch got up from?

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Originally Posted by Solzier71

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Groves is the best British fighter right now.. I was in awe watching him fight with so much conviction. That's was exactly the kind of attitude all young fighters should bring to a fight.

Froch talked that shit and got owned. lol The knockdown punch by Groves was one of the most beautiful right hands ive seen in a while. It was thrown at a perfect time and the placement couldnt have been better. That punch was thrown with so much force it fuckin landed twice, went right through his chin and landed on the collar bone..

Froch is done

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Was that the perfect punch that Froch got up from?

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It was a combination of his granite chin and champion's pride that got him back up. That's his main asset. Ability to take punishment like a punching bag.

Anyone else got hit by that thunder punch they would have got carried out on a stretcher.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Solzier71

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Groves is the best British fighter right now.. I was in awe watching him fight with so much conviction. That's was exactly the kind of attitude all young fighters should bring to a fight.

Froch talked that shit and got owned. lol The knockdown punch by Groves was one of the most beautiful right hands ive seen in a while. It was thrown at a perfect time and the placement couldnt have been better. That punch was thrown with so much force it fuckin landed twice, went right through his chin and landed on the collar bone..

Froch is done

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Was that the perfect punch that Froch got up from?

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It was a combination of his granite chin and champion's pride that got him back up. That's his main asset. Ability to take punishment like a punching bag.

Anyone else got hit by that thunder punch they would have got carried out on a stretcher.

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That shot was right on the button. You have to be a hard man to get up from that shot.

I had Froch 5 down and all over the place getting old and no answers.

However I thin it had turned and he would have got the stoppage in next round or so.

Wasn't his fault but he has to give the rematch or retire (Lewis - Vitali option really)

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

I had Froch 5 down and all over the place getting old and no answers.

However I thin it had turned and he would have got the stoppage in next round or so.

Wasn't his fault but he has to give the rematch or retire (Lewis - Vitali option really)

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It would look real bad if he doesn't give a rematch.. People are going to question that victory forever

Styles make fights , Froch has always been easy to hit , Groves fought a good fight , and well the stoppage was a joke.

i just dont see how froch looked any different than normal. groves was just sharper and landed better counters. the difference between this fight and his other fights against counter punchers is that groves hits hard. he made froch fight more timid. i think that groves was just the better man in the ring. i dont think it had anything to do with froch getting old. just like when he fought kessler this last time. froch won but still had a tough time against somebody who was a little sharper than him and was willing to exchange. groves just happened to be a better version of kessler.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Solzier71

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Groves is the best British fighter right now.. I was in awe watching him fight with so much conviction. That's was exactly the kind of attitude all young fighters should bring to a fight.

Froch talked that shit and got owned. lol The knockdown punch by Groves was one of the most beautiful right hands ive seen in a while. It was thrown at a perfect time and the placement couldnt have been better. That punch was thrown with so much force it fuckin landed twice, went right through his chin and landed on the collar bone..

Froch is done

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Was that the perfect punch that Froch got up from?

---

It was a combination of his granite chin and champion's pride that got him back up. That's his main asset. Ability to take punishment like a punching bag.

Anyone else got hit by that thunder punch they would have got carried out on a stretcher.

---

Very true. It was a great punch that would have knocked over mountains but fair play to Froch. He got up...but to me. Groves had his number and I think if the rematch happens Froch could get embarrassed

Froch can't keep making school boy, lazy more mistakes just because he's tough.

He sticks his left hand by his knee after a jab and Groves was landing right hands at will. Froch also threw so many jabs that he didn't even intend to hit Groves with, just flicks, not even real punches.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

i just dont see how froch looked any different than normal. groves was just sharper and landed better counters. the difference between this fight and his other fights against counter punchers is that groves hits hard. he made froch fight more timid. i think that groves was just the better man in the ring. i dont think it had anything to do with froch getting old. just like when he fought kessler this last time. froch won but still had a tough time against somebody who was a little sharper than him and was willing to exchange. groves just happened to be a better version of kessler.

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He kept Kessler on the End of his jab and Mikkel indulged him. Groves was having none of it, the difference is huge. Froch didn't just look old he looked confused, out of ideas and clearly scared at points. I don't think he is frightened of anybody but the thought of the embarrassment he would suffer (after all his mouth in the build up) should what he thought was impossible come true, was his downfall. Carl dug his own trap to fall into and used the stuff he dug out to build another mountain to climb afterwards.

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Originally Posted by 0james0

Froch can't keep making school boy, lazy more mistakes just because he's tough.

He sticks his left hand by his knee after a jab and Groves was landing right hands at will. Froch also threw so many jabs that he didn't even intend to hit Groves with, just flicks, not even real punches.

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Froch was doing some things early that were baffling to me. He has a tendency to square up as he throws a right hand anyway, but last night it was so exagerrated- look at the kd and see it. Also, he would punch and then just kind of stand there or step back like he didn't expect anybody to be punching back at him. Maybe he took groves lightly and his training was lax?

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

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Originally Posted by 0james0

Froch can't keep making school boy, lazy more mistakes just because he's tough.

He sticks his left hand by his knee after a jab and Groves was landing right hands at will. Froch also threw so many jabs that he didn't even intend to hit Groves with, just flicks, not even real punches.

---

Froch was doing some things early that were baffling to me. He has a tendency to square up as he throws a right hand anyway, but last night it was so exagerrated- look at the kd and see it. Also, he would punch and then just kind of stand there or step back like he didn't expect anybody to be punching back at him. Maybe he took groves lightly and his training was lax?

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THIS WAS THE WORST STOPPAGE I HAVE EVER SEEN

I believe Froch is an accident waiting to happen Because in many ways his biggest strength could be his weakness. His capacity to soak up huge shots and huge amounts of punishment are the hallmarks of fighters who can get themselves seriously hurt

We saw this Gerald McClellan because McClellan was able to take those huge shots from Benn and carry on, meant more blows to his brain. We saw this most famously with Ali and the huge blows he was able take from Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Holmes etc

This is what these refs don't get, boxing accidents happen not because the boxers can't take a punch but more because they can take a punch and the irony is because these type of fighters can take a punch, refs are less inclined to stop their fighters, they just think "O he's Froch. He has a granite chin. He's not hurt. He can take a punch"

Because there is NO WAY that ref would have stopped the fight had it been Froch in trouble like that

The ref (Howard Taylor) was a disgrace.

Have you ever seen a ref in any world title fight grab the guy who is meant to be saving from further punishment in a headlock in order to stop the fight ?

I would not even trust that ref to referee a dog fight.

The rematch will happen. It has to. Where can Froch go ?

Also as a side note.

It makes James De Gales performance against Groves (A fight I though he won) look very good. Remember Andre Ward did not handle Froch the way Groves did and Ward is meant to be 2nd only to Mayweather in the P4P lists

I know Froch and Groves or their team will be looking at websites and seeing what the public are saying..... they might even be reading this. So if I was in Frochs team I would tell him to retire

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

i just dont see how froch looked any different than normal. groves was just sharper and landed better counters. the difference between this fight and his other fights against counter punchers is that groves hits hard. he made froch fight more timid. i think that groves was just the better man in the ring. i dont think it had anything to do with froch getting old. just like when he fought kessler this last time. froch won but still had a tough time against somebody who was a little sharper than him and was willing to exchange. groves just happened to be a better version of kessler.

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He kept Kessler on the End of his jab and Mikkel indulged him. Groves was having none of it, the difference is huge. Froch didn't just look old he looked confused, out of ideas and clearly scared at points. I don't think he is frightened of anybody but the thought of the embarrassment he would suffer (after all his mouth in the build up) should what he thought was impossible come true, was his downfall. Carl dug his own trap to fall into and used the stuff he dug out to build another mountain to climb afterwards.

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thats why i said the difference was that groves was sharper than kessler was. so basically, froch had a tough time against an aged kessler and groves was significantly better than that version of kessler.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

i just dont see how froch looked any different than normal. groves was just sharper and landed better counters. the difference between this fight and his other fights against counter punchers is that groves hits hard. he made froch fight more timid. i think that groves was just the better man in the ring. i dont think it had anything to do with froch getting old. just like when he fought kessler this last time. froch won but still had a tough time against somebody who was a little sharper than him and was willing to exchange. groves just happened to be a better version of kessler.

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He kept Kessler on the End of his jab and Mikkel indulged him. Groves was having none of it, the difference is huge. Froch didn't just look old he looked confused, out of ideas and clearly scared at points. I don't think he is frightened of anybody but the thought of the embarrassment he would suffer (after all his mouth in the build up) should what he thought was impossible come true, was his downfall. Carl dug his own trap to fall into and used the stuff he dug out to build another mountain to climb afterwards.

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thats why i said the difference was that groves was sharper than kessler was. so basically, froch had a tough time against an aged kessler and groves was significantly better than that version of kessler.

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Groves was keying more off the right hand of froch than off his jab, at least early on.

Its styles though, Froch is comfortable fighting a Kessler fight, less thinking, more brawling. It wasn't until he was nicely beat up did he come alive against Groves.

On the knock down he was positioned horribly. It was like watching Hatton all over again. The big, invincible, I AM. Then he gets nailed.

Froch took some huge shots in there, the more he took, the stronger he seemed to become. Massive overhand rights to the chin and he started to just walk through them, when he's in rage mode, there aren't many better. The problem is he doesn't seem to have a boxing brain, to adapt and box, only once have I ever thought he tactically outsmarted another fighter. Other than that he just windmills through.

I actually think De Gale would give Froch fits as well, simply because of style. He would expose all of those massive flaws all over again. Where as GGG, who most would say was better, could possibly suit Froch more as he would be ready to war as well.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

I had Froch 5 down and all over the place getting old and no answers.

However I thin it had turned and he would have got the stoppage in next round or so.

Wasn't his fault but he has to give the rematch or retire (Lewis - Vitali option really)

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It would look real bad if he doesn't give a rematch.. People are going to question that victory forever

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Rematch or retire is pathetic. Ruined Lewis' image in my mind. He should rematch or fight another top fighter eg Ward, GGG or someone coming down from light heavy. Retire just shows he knows he got lucky and doesnt have it in him any more, just like Lewis.

Lets not blame froch.

Blame the ref.

Froch got the beating of his life but still came back like a champion.

Groves deserved to win and might have won if not for the stoppage.

We all know froch is in his prime in the championship rounds and WAS starting to improve.

Froch looked like he came from the pub tonight and straight in the ring.

He was slow, nervous and awkard.

Groves made him that way though.

What a great future groves has...

Toe it seemed as though froch wasn't even there.
It was the froch that fought taylor I saw the other night.

The new froch who beat bute was sharp. Wasn't the same on Saturday.

The stoppage was on its way but sure we won't ever know.

Some people think that groves was in position with his wits to suddenly move out the way! Froch was ripe at that point and to me groves was downhill!!

I wonder how groves made that huge gash on the back of carl head as the world thinks groves didn't hit carl
Twice with haymakers to the back of his head

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Toe it seemed as though froch wasn't even there.
It was the froch that fought taylor I saw the other night.

The new froch who beat bute was sharp. Wasn't the same on Saturday.

The stoppage was on its way but sure we won't ever know.

Some people think that groves was in position with his wits to suddenly move out the way! Froch was ripe at that point and to me groves was downhill!!

I wonder how groves made that huge gash on the back of carl head as the world thinks groves didn't hit carl
Twice with haymakers to the back of his head

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Froch looked like a killer against bute but maybe that was because bute wasnt that great to begin with?

He got knocked out by C level andrade unofficially..

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Toe it seemed as though froch wasn't even there.
It was the froch that fought taylor I saw the other night.

The new froch who beat bute was sharp. Wasn't the same on Saturday.

The stoppage was on its way but sure we won't ever know.

Some people think that groves was in position with his wits to suddenly move out the way! Froch was ripe at that point and to me groves was downhill!!

I wonder how groves made that huge gash on the back of carl head as the world thinks groves didn't hit carl
Twice with haymakers to the back of his head

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Froch looked like a killer against bute but maybe that was because bute wasnt that great to begin with?

He got knocked out by C level andrade unofficially..

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Froch struggles wth movement. The only movement zbute gave him was moving ti the ropes, then staying there;)

DeGale would land all over Froch.

i am a fan of both fighters, i think i was edging towards wanting froch to win

there is no way the fight was 5-3 though, 8-0 would have been closer

and people are now saying it was a good stoppage, ive watched it 3 times and i cant see anything that suggests that, there was as much chance of froch getting KOed in the last 3 as Groves

one thing is for certain, froch is a very very tough man, i havent see many fighters take that many massive punches and be rocked that many times and still keep coming

I know what everyone's saying but is everyone trying to say that froch wssnt gonna get the stoppage?
Why was groves covering up like Abraham tight against the ropes?
Why did froch fight back when hit but groves didn't?
Those shots at the stoppage were crushing groves as the ropes help him up!!

His head was going back like butes? Did nobody see that? It's hard to see as all the eyes are on the punches groves landed and not on what froch was landing to the sides and body up
Close from round 2.

The stoppage was early but people gotta give froch a break as he was coming on and very strong and by that time knew he had taken George's biggest and best but had yet done his best which was seconds from coming!
Just really think groves was on his way out due to using up everything trying to get froch out in the first half.

I also think carl turned up unprepared and thinking he had it in a bag.

I agree. He just wanted to eat punches so he walked right into it with his right foot in front of his left lol..

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

I know what everyone's saying but is everyone trying to say that froch wssnt gonna get the stoppage?
Why was groves covering up like Abraham tight against the ropes?
Why did froch fight back when hit but groves didn't?
Those shots at the stoppage were crushing groves as the ropes help him up!!

His head was going back like butes? Did nobody see that? It's hard to see as all the eyes are on the punches groves landed and not on what froch was landing to the sides and body up
Close from round 2.

The stoppage was early but people gotta give froch a break as he was coming on and very strong and by that time knew he had taken George's biggest and best but had yet done his best which was seconds from coming!
Just really think groves was on his way out due to using up everything trying to get froch out in the first half.

I also think carl turned up unprepared and thinking he had it in a bag.

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oh froch was getting that stoppage before the fight was pver but let him get it legit, the stoppage was shit

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

I know what everyone's saying but is everyone trying to say that froch wssnt gonna get the stoppage?
Why was groves covering up like Abraham tight against the ropes?
Why did froch fight back when hit but groves didn't?
Those shots at the stoppage were crushing groves as the ropes help him up!!

His head was going back like butes? Did nobody see that? It's hard to see as all the eyes are on the punches groves landed and not on what froch was landing to the sides and body up
Close from round 2.

The stoppage was early but people gotta give froch a break as he was coming on and very strong and by that time knew he had taken George's biggest and best but had yet done his best which was seconds from coming!
Just really think groves was on his way out due to using up everything trying to get froch out in the first half.

I also think carl turned up unprepared and thinking he had it in a bag.

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oh froch was getting that stoppage before the fight was pver but let him get it legit, the stoppage was shit

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Yes!! The subject is now clarified!

Froch innocent
Groves innocent

Early stoppage true

But groves endurance was empty or close as froch was coming big and strong.

Try and imagine the predictable situation in the following round

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

I know what everyone's saying but is everyone trying to say that froch wssnt gonna get the stoppage?
Why was groves covering up like Abraham tight against the ropes?
Why did froch fight back when hit but groves didn't?
Those shots at the stoppage were crushing groves as the ropes help him up!!

His head was going back like butes? Did nobody see that? It's hard to see as all the eyes are on the punches groves landed and not on what froch was landing to the sides and body up
Close from round 2.

The stoppage was early but people gotta give froch a break as he was coming on and very strong and by that time knew he had taken George's biggest and best but had yet done his best which was seconds from coming!
Just really think groves was on his way out due to using up everything trying to get froch out in the first half.

I also think carl turned up unprepared and thinking he had it in a bag.

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oh froch was getting that stoppage before the fight was pver but let him get it legit, the stoppage was shit

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Yes!! The subject is now clarified!

Froch innocent
Groves innocent

Early stoppage true

But groves endurance was empty or close as froch was coming big and strong.

Try and imagine the predictable situation in the following round

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thats only your opinion

only a minute before the stoppage groves had hit and badly stunned froch, both his hands dropped and his head went down

there was as much chance of another one of those ending the fight

you cant stop a fight based on what the fight was stopped on, if you could you could make a long list of fights that wouldnt have gone the distance

What a load of revisionist bollocks. Now apparently Groves had used up all his energy and was going to gas out? Some people are starting to sound like Froch and Cracken who have been trumpeting the same nonsense post fight as before. They both speak as though Carl was always going to win and there was something predestined about the result. All the evidence suggests otherwise. Tenuous and desperate attempts to salvage some credibility from a disastrous fight in which they both had no answers.

I'm just saying we have seen froch in this position many times and pulls it off except ward because he kept away!
Groves was stationary at that point and was trapped on the ropes before he was turning his back to froch and was stumbling without tripping on feet!!
The ref was holding him up!!

Froch was about to have him in the other corner!!!

Does everyone think groves wasn't gonna be trapped in the other corner??

George was slipping.

Forget the wide margins as that's not what matters.
What matters is what was likely unless froch was gonna go and sit on his arse and not finish off!!

Opinion yes but should be taken into consideration and that makes it no fault of Carl's.

The ref could see groves was in bother and leaning as punches landed.

Froch was gonna carry on hitting him and getting through as we have seen him do many times!! This would be no different and if so I wanna know why without bollox

Nobody had ever seen Groves in that situation before, to assume he couldn't have recovered from being hurt like that isn't fair. To say Froch always comes on late as a means to justify it isn't either, we had never seen anyone beat the hell out of him that badly until then. The ref didn't see shit for the record, he was at a terrible vantage to stop the fight, had no eye contact with Groves and literally grabbed him before he could have even taken a knee or anything:mad:. Gun to my head I do think that Froch would have stopped him as he'd come on in the round prior, but I thought the fight was over in the first round as well. Groves could have clearly continued at that moment and it's impossible to know what would've happened, hence the stoppage being a complete farce.

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

I'm just saying we have seen froch in this position many times and pulls it off except ward because he kept away!
Groves was stationary at that point and was trapped on the ropes before he was turning his back to froch and was stumbling without tripping on feet!!
The ref was holding him up!!

Froch was about to have him in the other corner!!!

Does everyone think groves wasn't gonna be trapped in the other corner??

George was slipping.

Forget the wide margins as that's not what matters.
What matters is what was likely unless froch was gonna go and sit on his arse and not finish off!!

Opinion yes but should be taken into consideration and that makes it no fault of Carl's.

The ref could see groves was in bother and leaning as punches landed.

Froch was gonna carry on hitting him and getting through as we have seen him do many times!! This would be no different and if so I wanna know why without bollox

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this isnt true

Are we in agreement that froch was not gonna get stopped??

Groves has earnt more than just my respect and he will take over when froch had gone!!

But I just think that froch had taken everything groves had and was still coming forward with no doubt or fear but with hunger and desire to weather George and let's be fare here, carl was digging him with combos and I'm on the fence but a stoppage was gonna happen and if people think otherwise then bute should have been given the benefit and Taylor!!

Because George took some big shots in succession at the stoppage.

If you watch that whole situation look at groves taking the shots and watch his head and body language and be honest and tell me why he was running after and almost falling without tripping and at that moment is carl chasing George and if so tell me what carl would have done next if the ref wasn't there because groves in that point in time to me was only going to recieve a full hearted bombardment with no hold back.

Gotta be honest there and think what the ref was thinking and prob could see what was coming next.
Yes we don't know but we have a good idea regardless of how George looked like he can beat mayweather with one eye and a broken leg etc etc.

I think the ref has a heart and was thinking of George.

It's harsh but it has happnd.

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Are we in agreement that froch was not gonna get stopped??

Groves has earnt more than just my respect and he will take over when froch had gone!!

But I just think that froch had taken everything groves had and was still coming forward with no doubt or fear but with hunger and desire to weather George and let's be fare here, carl was digging him with combos and I'm on the fence but a stoppage was gonna happen and if people think otherwise then bute should have been given the benefit and Taylor!!

Because George took some big shots in succession at the stoppage.

If you watch that whole situation look at groves taking the shots and watch his head and body language and be honest and tell me why he was running after and almost falling without tripping and at that moment is carl chasing George and if so tell me what carl would have done next if the ref wasn't there because groves in that point in time to me was only going to recieve a full hearted bombardment with no hold back.

Gotta be honest there and think what the ref was thinking and prob could see what was coming next.
Yes we don't know but we have a good idea regardless of how George looked like he can beat mayweather with one eye and a broken leg etc etc.

I think the ref has a heart and was thinking of George.

It's harsh but it has happnd.

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there was just as much evidence that froch would be stopped as groves

in the same round as it was stopped, 30 seconds or so before the stoppage groves landed a big right and frochs hands dropped and his head sagged

this was the first time that froch had really landed on groves and there was no evidence to suggest that groves was even in trouble, he took two punches and then he ducked under another into the refs arms

when he came out of the headlock he knew exactly what was happening

the view that he would have been stopped anyway has no substance when it comes to assessing this fight only, if that were 2 fighters you had never heard of i dont think that would come in to play

So groves should have taken the 8 count making the scores closer and froch no doubt was landing more from round 7 and likely would have finished stronger and by winning the last few rounds it would have been a draw or split decision!!

So either way it's bollox but he got stopped and when hurt didn't free back like froch did.
Froch just kept coming and that's the difference here.

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

So groves should have taken the 8 count making the scores closer and froch no doubt was landing more from round 7 and likely would have finished stronger and by winning the last few rounds it would have been a draw or split decision!!

So either way it's bollox but he got stopped and when hurt didn't free back like froch did.
Froch just kept coming and that's the difference here.

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You are talking like a complete fanboy who doesn't want to face up to the fact that Groves had the beating of Froch. Groves humiliated your man and you, like Carl, can't admit it. Now you are backtracking and suggesting that if Groves was not about to be stopped that Froch would have obviously won the last few rounds. You are deluded. It is just as likely that Groves could have caught him flush and sparked him out. Points wise for any neutral Froch had a mountain to climb. The judges apparently were not watching with an open mind.