IF you disagree, tell me why..
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IF you disagree, tell me why..
Because Cotto has power, can box very well, and has a trainer who has gone against JMM a number of times. plus the only catchweight they could fight at would have to be like 150 and there's no way JMM handles that well.
I'd probably take JMM to win a compeditive decision. I don't think it would be a one sided ass whipping.
I think Cotto would wallop JMM. The jab Cotto has, the solid defense, the power....JMM is durable and is an all time great but there's only so much the man can do. The style matchup is all wrong.
He's also a lot slower of hand and thought than JMM is.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
And before the Delvin Rodriguez fight, people were calling for Cotto to retire because he was washed up. I don't know why a win of Delvin Rodriguez, who isn't that great, would change this sentiment.
Yes but Delvin Rodriguez is a legitimate Junior Middleweight. JMM is still more of a Junior Welterweight than a Welterweight....Cotto would batter him. Cotto would NEVER have been beaten by Tim Bradley
I am a fan of Cotto but I agree with you on this one. It would be a good fight to see, I also don't think it would be a shutout but I believe JMM would prevail.
Depending on the weight, but at this stage anywhere over 150 & I'd back Cotto.
I don't know why losses to Mayweather and Trout would bring it along....no one is calling for Alvarez to retire and IMO he's lost to both of them as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerHe's also a lot slower of hand and thought than JMM is.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
And before the Delvin Rodriguez fight, people were calling for Cotto to retire because he was washed up. I don't know why a win of Delvin Rodriguez, who isn't that great, would change this sentiment.
Isn't it amazing how one fight changes everything? Before the Rodriguez fight, all anyone could talk about was how much punishment Cotto has taken over his career, how he was all done and how he should retire to preserve his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Now: retirement talk? What retirement talk?
lol
I've thought this would be an epic fight for several years now, and don't see it as either guy being "all wrong" for the other, it would be a war imo. Cotto wouldn't stay on his bicycle and fight like Bradley did, but he would need to use his jab very well and be smart. I could see him getting countered trying to dig the body, but I'm also not sure how Marquez would handle that giving up a good bit of size. Would love to see it.
Pacman had cotto running away and cowering like a frightened stooge.. marquez would teach him a boxing lesson and punish him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
lol so because jmm finally beat pac and pac beat cotto, u say that cotto loses? Am I correct?
cotto is too big for jmm, and he would punish juan with body shots. I say cotto in a split.
Mayweather didn't knock Marquez the fuck out after the 3rd due to ring rust and pure mercy, going on to win every round, Cotto gave Mayweather one of his toughest fights to date, a hell of a lot tougher of a fight than Alvarez did, Cotto would wear him down and spank MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
yea the ones talking about him retiring were the same people who are saying that Marquez would beat him now, Cotto lost to the best p4p fighter in the world, and one of the top 5 guys at 154 who arguably should have a W against Canelo himself in Trout, don't see how that ever equals being doneQuote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerIsn't it amazing how one fight changes everything? Before the Rodriguez fight, all anyone could talk about was how much punishment Cotto has taken over his career, how he was all done and how he should retire to preserve his health.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Now: retirement talk? What retirement talk?
lol
Think the fight would look kinda boring for a while but Cotto can be hurt and stopped Jmm has the power very good counter puncher. As for Cotto would not lose to Bradley i disagree i find that to be a good fight and can see Bradley winning on points. Cotto a good fighter and all but Elite level his best win was a md over a 36 year old Mosley that could easily be a draw. Anyhow i would watch the fight and i think more likely that it could end in ko either way but i think jmm could do it with the right counter.
Cotto needs to come back further than pounding out a gimme showcase in Rodriquez. These two are best of an era, battle worn and near an exit but they can garner more jingle if they opt not to cancel each other out. If that makes sense. Besides the weights are all wrong, Cotto at 147 should be a no go and Marquez above 144 is pushing it.
I think Cotto can make 147 i don't see why not he is not a huge Lmw or anything be another Mexico vs island thing going be some money in it. Both are not getting younger i Jmm not might as well get some more money for retirement before calling a day be a good idea.
Yeah Cotto gave Mayweather a tougher fight than Alvarez did. He also took more of beating than Alvarez did. What that has to do in match up between Marquez and Cotto, I have no fucking idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesMayweather didn't knock Marquez the fuck out after the 3rd due to ring rust and pure mercy, going on to win every round, Cotto gave Mayweather one of his toughest fights to date, a hell of a lot tougher of a fight than Alvarez did, Cotto would wear him down and spank MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Anyway I think Cotto would be competitive the whole fight. He'll have his moments. But Cotto is a very good fighter. Marquez is a great fighter. Great fighters beat very good fighters
He certainly can make 147, even 140 if he wasn't lazy.. IT's well known that Cotto is lazy in the gym, being his own boss in the gym and often training himself even..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I dont know about his work ethic under Roach but he's been a certain way for a long time..
Cotto is a natural 140-147 and he could make the weight if he really tried..
He sure aint no JMW..
Cotto did better than expected against Floyd only because Floyd fought down to his level and stayed in the pocket..Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYeah Cotto gave Mayweather a tougher fight than Alvarez did. He also took more of beating than Alvarez did. What that has to do in match up between Marquez and Cotto, I have no fucking idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesMayweather didn't knock Marquez the fuck out after the 3rd due to ring rust and pure mercy, going on to win every round, Cotto gave Mayweather one of his toughest fights to date, a hell of a lot tougher of a fight than Alvarez did, Cotto would wear him down and spank MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Anyway I think Cotto would be competitive the whole fight. He'll have his moments. But Cotto is a very good fighter. Marquez is a great fighter. Great fighters beat very good fighters
If Floyd didnt get out of character, Cotto would have got schooled..
Yea thats what i mean why is he not at 147 i mean Bradley fight, Pac fight, and also Jmm fight. Lmw has the ginger thats about it Trout and the other guys name starts with a L are not big attractions. i mean at this point the WW have the bigger names and paydays really no comparison.
You're right and that's another point I want to make.. There are two reasons why Cotto is blowing himself up to fight at 154..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
1. He's too lazy to make 147
2. There are too many killers at 147
He fights at 154 cuz the competition is easier.. Businesswise, there is no reason why he should be fighting in a shallow division when there are shitload of huge paydays at 147..
Well he starts seeing the dollar signs he may put down the junk food. I don't think he beats any of the top WW right now but i don't think he can beat the top Lmw either might as well make more money. I mean as a fighter there no pension got to get all you can before your out of this sport.
He fought the top dog at 147 and was demolished. He jumped up because..age, body, and a guy named Yuri Foreman holding a trinket aka money chip for him. He builds up, gets biggest name and payday at 154 with Mayweather and losses. The Trout loss was his screwed pooch in what was thought another rebound fight by more than a few to bigger things, see Canelo..now he's rebuilding yet again. A go at Marquez may get him a 'name' but not a current statement on where he is actually at in career. Molina holds a 154 trinket ffs. Cotto is not going to wake up one morning and be reborn at 140-147. You don't get that time or the years back.
It has just as much to do with it as Pac/Cotto has to do with how Marquez/Cotto would play out, which is nothing, Marquez doesn't have the speed or volume of punches that Manny has, he fights usually a slow pace which would do him no favors with a guy who isn't as careless as Pacquiao has been in the past, Cotto is himself a GREAT fighter, you don't build up the resume he has by being just good, Bradley doesn't have the boxing ability of Cotto and he still managed to pull rounds away from him, he has pillow fists and still rocked the hell out of Marquez in the 12th, Cotto beats Marquez handily unless Marquez tries to weigh drain him, hell Finitio himself knows it, that's why he called for a catchweight...Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYeah Cotto gave Mayweather a tougher fight than Alvarez did. He also took more of beating than Alvarez did. What that has to do in match up between Marquez and Cotto, I have no fucking idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesMayweather didn't knock Marquez the fuck out after the 3rd due to ring rust and pure mercy, going on to win every round, Cotto gave Mayweather one of his toughest fights to date, a hell of a lot tougher of a fight than Alvarez did, Cotto would wear him down and spank MarquezQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Anyway I think Cotto would be competitive the whole fight. He'll have his moments. But Cotto is a very good fighter. Marquez is a great fighter. Great fighters beat very good fighters
Cotto would beat JMM he would be too big and strong and Miguel is just as quick and seasoned as Marquez. The weight at 150lb would be the deciding factor. What is JMM next fight?
El what wins on his resume are really that great for Cotto i mean his best win is a past it Mosley although not shot still good fighter he was 36 and that fight could of been a draw. Cotto was a good fighter i might give him great but at top level he fell short was never the man of a division really.
He was the man at 147 until he fought Margarito who cheated. At 147 Cotto battered people, he would break jaws and do big damage...he stopped Gianaluca Branco with a hook to the fucking shoulder. JMM is tough, he's smart, but he's not going to take out Cotto. Cotto would win a wide UD or perhaps stop JMM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Cotto's worst fight came when he didn't even have a trainer in his corner vs Pacquiao and he still hung tough. Cotto troubled Floyd more than JMM did that's for certain. Cotto might not be fast but he's got TIMING and timing can beat speed we all know that. Cotto may not be the warrior he used to be but he's got more in the tank than JMM does....and again he certainly would never have lost to Bradley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
HE goes life and death against Juan Diaz.
Cotto is better in all aspects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYou're right and that's another point I want to make.. There are two reasons why Cotto is blowing himself up to fight at 154..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
1. He's too lazy to make 147
2. There are too many killers at 147
He fights at 154 cuz the competition is easier.. Businesswise, there is no reason why he should be fighting in a shallow division when there are shitload of huge paydays at 147..
Cotto's "too lazy to make 147", but it's quite alright for JMM to be fighting at that weight. That's pretty damn hilarious even by your standards. Especially when you consider that JMM started as a featherweight, while Cotto began pretty much at junior welter. I actually considered not posting, because you're pretty transparent with your attempts to bait. But your ridiculous claims are a bit much to just let slide.
Think about it (at least try)... One guy travels all the way from 126 to 147 and above, and it's ok. But the other guy, who started at 140, is considered "too lazy" because he can't make 147 anymore. Priceless.
Opinions fall along predictable lines, with some agreeing with you and others not. I'll continue the predictability and state that of course I'd favor Cotto. Adding, however, that I've always been a huge JMM fan, and consider him an all-time great. However, Cotto is an all-time great in his own right, and with more tools in his arsenal than you've ever given him credit for.
So for the purposes of this particular discussion, I'll forego the technical reasons why.... as I know they'd be fully wasted on you, and I've already used up my self-allotted 3 minutes of attention to your thread.
El Kabong I have to disagree he was never the man at 140, 147 and 154 there were other champs who were there and hand the ring rating also lineal champs. Also he lost to Margarito in the fight to be the top guy now a lot shit on that fight still lost the damn thing. Also let me say this what name at elite level does he have on his resume. The only one was Mosley at 36 which could of been a draw ended up being a md. I say this i am kinda sick of people putting down Bradley not power puncher but got a hell of chin and very well rounded i don't see why he could not pull off a ud against Cotto done just as well at top level fights if not better. When it came to his big fights you got Mosley fucking close and, Pac destroyed him, Mayweather he gave a good fight but clearly lost and was looking like he was done by the 12 and Margarito which he lost. Now he did comeback and beat Margarito but that was after he got the living shit beat out of him by Pac and Mosley and scandal thing so how good was that win. Cotto a good fighter and all but his resume lacks a tad and winning the big fights kinda came short most of the time i just think 147 has the bigger pay days is all.
You are not understanding the concept, Tito..There are different levels and circumstances when moving up weight divisions.. A natural featherweight like Marquez moving up two divisions to 147 and a natural 140-147 guy in Cotto jumping up to 154 are totally different.. totally different..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYou're right and that's another point I want to make.. There are two reasons why Cotto is blowing himself up to fight at 154..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
1. He's too lazy to make 147
2. There are too many killers at 147
He fights at 154 cuz the competition is easier.. Businesswise, there is no reason why he should be fighting in a shallow division when there are shitload of huge paydays at 147..
Cotto's "too lazy to make 147", but it's quite alright for JMM to be fighting at that weight. That's pretty damn hilarious even by your standards. Especially when you consider that JMM started as a featherweight, while Cotto began pretty much at junior welter. I actually considered not posting, because you're pretty transparent with your attempts to bait. But your ridiculous claims are a bit much to just let slide.
Think about it (at least try)... One guy travels all the way from 126 to 147 and above, and it's ok. But the other guy, who started at 140, is considered "too lazy" because he can't make 147 anymore. Priceless.
Opinions fall along predictable lines, with some agreeing with you and others not. I'll continue the predictability and state that of course I'd favor Cotto. Adding, however, that I've always been a huge JMM fan, and consider him an all-time great. However, Cotto is an all-time great in his own right, and with more tools in his arsenal than you've ever given him credit for.
So for the purposes of this particular discussion, I'll forego the technical reasons why.... as I know they'd be fully wasted on you, and I've already used up my self-allotted 3 minutes of attention to your thread.
IT's easier for a natural 147 guy to boil down to 140 or move up to 154 as opposed to a naturally small guy like Marquez jumping up multiple weight divisions..
I think Cotto is a damn good fighter and a lot bigger, stronger, more powerful than Marquez.
An aging, hittable, more stationary Marquez could be in trouble with Cotto.
Marquez could also outbox Cotto and befuddle him. However, I see Cotto being a daunting task for JMM. Just because he seems to have Mannys number doesn't necessarily mean he'd whip Cotto.
The title of the thread may be true if you are talking aboit a weight drained cotto in the later rounds, but throughing out the weight issues marquez has never been able to handle the outside style. So if your toughting skill wise I completely disagree. Cotto would out point marquez.
Cuz It's much better going life and death against DeMarcus Corley and Ricardo Torress, right? Say what you want about Diaz but his record includes wins over Acelino Freitas, Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. All Torres has is a very bad stoppage win over Kendall Holt and a SD win over Mike Arnaoutis that he didn't even deserve.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_langQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
HE goes life and death against Juan Diaz.
Cotto is better in all aspects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYou are not understanding the concept, Tito..There are different levels and circumstances when moving up weight divisions.. A natural featherweight like Marquez moving up two divisions to 147 and a natural 140-147 guy in Cotto jumping up to 154 are totally different.. totally different..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYou're right and that's another point I want to make.. There are two reasons why Cotto is blowing himself up to fight at 154..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
1. He's too lazy to make 147
2. There are too many killers at 147
He fights at 154 cuz the competition is easier.. Businesswise, there is no reason why he should be fighting in a shallow division when there are shitload of huge paydays at 147..
Cotto's "too lazy to make 147", but it's quite alright for JMM to be fighting at that weight. That's pretty damn hilarious even by your standards. Especially when you consider that JMM started as a featherweight, while Cotto began pretty much at junior welter. I actually considered not posting, because you're pretty transparent with your attempts to bait. But your ridiculous claims are a bit much to just let slide.
Think about it (at least try)... One guy travels all the way from 126 to 147 and above, and it's ok. But the other guy, who started at 140, is considered "too lazy" because he can't make 147 anymore. Priceless.
Opinions fall along predictable lines, with some agreeing with you and others not. I'll continue the predictability and state that of course I'd favor Cotto. Adding, however, that I've always been a huge JMM fan, and consider him an all-time great. However, Cotto is an all-time great in his own right, and with more tools in his arsenal than you've ever given him credit for.
So for the purposes of this particular discussion, I'll forego the technical reasons why.... as I know they'd be fully wasted on you, and I've already used up my self-allotted 3 minutes of attention to your thread.
IT's easier for a natural 147 guy to boil down to 140 or move up to 154 as opposed to a naturally small guy like Marquez jumping up multiple weight divisions..
Oh, I understand biased double standards quite perfectly, thank you. ;)
Styles make fights. Marquez doesn't have the power to keep Cotto off of him the way Manny did. Neither does JMM have the skill to dodge Cotto like Mayweather did- and even Mayweather got hit, cut and hurt a little when he fought Cotto.
Cotto brutalizes JMM over how long it takes. Most likely the ref or the corner would have to stop it.
:cool:
Marquez has not been stopped once in his entire career. Now he's suppose to not only stopped but brutalized by a fighter who's gone on record saying he'll rather quit than get hit to many times? Seriously? Come the fuck on with that nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Doggs, u need to wake up. Guys like torres and corley had cotto out on his feet, caught em so hard dude started doing the Rican salsa dance. You might argue that those bouts were at 140 but the fact is, 140 was cotto's best weight.. he was a beast at the weight but was vulnerable at the same time ..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYou are not understanding the concept, Tito..There are different levels and circumstances when moving up weight divisions.. A natural featherweight like Marquez moving up two divisions to 147 and a natural 140-147 guy in Cotto jumping up to 154 are totally different.. totally different..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYou're right and that's another point I want to make.. There are two reasons why Cotto is blowing himself up to fight at 154..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
1. He's too lazy to make 147
2. There are too many killers at 147
He fights at 154 cuz the competition is easier.. Businesswise, there is no reason why he should be fighting in a shallow division when there are shitload of huge paydays at 147..
Cotto's "too lazy to make 147", but it's quite alright for JMM to be fighting at that weight. That's pretty damn hilarious even by your standards. Especially when you consider that JMM started as a featherweight, while Cotto began pretty much at junior welter. I actually considered not posting, because you're pretty transparent with your attempts to bait. But your ridiculous claims are a bit much to just let slide.
Think about it (at least try)... One guy travels all the way from 126 to 147 and above, and it's ok. But the other guy, who started at 140, is considered "too lazy" because he can't make 147 anymore. Priceless.
Opinions fall along predictable lines, with some agreeing with you and others not. I'll continue the predictability and state that of course I'd favor Cotto. Adding, however, that I've always been a huge JMM fan, and consider him an all-time great. However, Cotto is an all-time great in his own right, and with more tools in his arsenal than you've ever given him credit for.
So for the purposes of this particular discussion, I'll forego the technical reasons why.... as I know they'd be fully wasted on you, and I've already used up my self-allotted 3 minutes of attention to your thread.
IT's easier for a natural 147 guy to boil down to 140 or move up to 154 as opposed to a naturally small guy like Marquez jumping up multiple weight divisions..
Oh, I understand biased double standards quite perfectly, thank you. ;)
Its not like cotto is any better or significantly stronger at above 140...
At a catchweight of 145 or even at an official 147, marquez would punch a 3rd eye in him...