-
GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
The Adamu fight was my breaking point. I'm starting to question it all. I mean Macklin wanted the fight then he enters negotiations and suddenly he doesn't. What did they offer? K2 is known for being difficult at the negotiations table.
Rumors have spread that Korabov is next and that is unacceptable.
He's 32 years old, if he is ever going to have big fights he needs to start.
Froch, Stevenson, Hopkins, Ward have all said they're interested. Ward has gone as far as to push for it and GGG "isn't ready". This would be okay if he had Martinez lined up or Quillen but he doesn't. He should be happy to take whatever big fight he can get. If he makes 160 as easy as they say he can always come back down.
Hopefully this is just a ploy to get people talking but it seems GGG isn't a good boy.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
The Adamu fight was my breaking point. I'm starting to question it all. I mean Macklin wanted the fight then he enters negotiations and suddenly he doesn't. What did they offer? K2 is known for being difficult at the negotiations table.
Rumors have spread that Korabov is next and that is unacceptable.
He's 32 years old, if he is ever going to have big fights he needs to start.
Froch, Stevenson, Hopkins, Ward have all said they're interested. Ward has gone as far as to push for it and GGG "isn't ready". This would be okay if he had Martinez lined up or Quillen but he doesn't. He should be happy to take whatever big fight he can get. If he makes 160 as easy as they say he can always come back down.
Hopefully this is just a ploy to get people talking but it seems GGG isn't a good boy.
I can't make any sense of this post at all. Macklin wanted the fight with GGG and then didn't? You know they fought each other already right?
-
Yea stupid post. Didn't mention one guy for him at 160. U could apply this argument to Mayweather not fighting GGG at 160. 160 is a prestigious weight class and GGG is getting criticised cz guys won't fight him and the best we come up with is move him to super MW so we can get another average MW world champ?
-
Excuse me, I always switch up Macklin and Murray, darn MM names :-/.
Comparing Floyd who fought multiple champions at 130, a champ at 135, a champ at 140, multiple champions at 147 and multiple champions at 154 to a guy who as of yet has fought no big fights makes no sense.
You say Floyd should move up AGAIN for ANOTHER big fight. GGG hasn't moved up once, there is a very clear difference and I can't figure out why tbis guy keeps getting excused. He's done NOTHING. I want to see him be the fighter I said he could be but so far I'm embarrassed I said he was the best at 160 years ago.
He is 32 years old and needs to get out of that wasteland of a division and go make a big fight, his first big fight
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Excuse me, I always switch up Macklin and Murray, darn MM names :-/.
Comparing Floyd who fought multiple champions at 130, a champ at 135, a champ at 140, multiple champions at 147 and multiple champions at 154 to a guy who as of yet has fought no big fights makes no sense.
You say Floyd should move up AGAIN for ANOTHER big fight. GGG hasn't moved up once, there is a very clear difference and I can't figure out why tbis guy keeps getting excused. He's done NOTHING. I want to see him be the fighter I said he could be but so far I'm embarrassed I said he was the best at 160 years ago.
He is 32 years old and needs to get out of that wasteland of a division and go make a big fight, his first big fight
I disagree with this post. GGG has fought the best possible middleweights out there. Has he turned down a fight at 160? Not that I'm aware of. There are still plenty of good fights for him at 160 including Martinez, Murray, Geale and Sturm (Quillin doesn't count because he's on the other side of the street with networks and promoters). He has not cleaned out the division. In my opinion, he should clean out the division before he moves up. If there comes a point in time, maybe one year from now, where Martinez has retired without facing him, and Murray, Geale and Sturm continue to refuse to face him, then let's reconsider him moving up. At this point though, it's premature.
This is in stark contrast to Ward who has cleaned out the division. Ward should consider moving up in weight now because he's beat everyone at his weight. What else is there left to prove at 168 for Ward? Nothing in my opinion.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Excuse me, I always switch up Macklin and Murray, darn MM names :-/.
Comparing Floyd who fought multiple champions at 130, a champ at 135, a champ at 140, multiple champions at 147 and multiple champions at 154 to a guy who as of yet has fought no big fights makes no sense.
You say Floyd should move up AGAIN for ANOTHER big fight. GGG hasn't moved up once, there is a very clear difference and I can't figure out why tbis guy keeps getting excused. He's done NOTHING. I want to see him be the fighter I said he could be but so far I'm embarrassed I said he was the best at 160 years ago.
He is 32 years old and needs to get out of that wasteland of a division and go make a big fight, his first big fight
I disagree with this post. GGG has fought the best possible middleweights out there. Has he turned down a fight at 160? Not that I'm aware of. There are still plenty of good fights for him at 160 including Martinez, Murray, Geale and Sturm (Quillin doesn't count because he's on the other side of the street with networks and promoters). He has not cleaned out the division. In my opinion, he should clean out the division before he moves up. If there comes a point in time, maybe one year from now, where Martinez has retired without facing him, and Murray, Geale and Sturm continue to refuse to face him, then let's reconsider him moving up. At this point though, it's premature.
This is in stark contrast to Ward who has cleaned out the division. Ward should consider moving up in weight now because he's beat everyone at his weight. What else is there left to prove at 168 for Ward? Nothing in my opinion.
I wonder if Ward has the balls to come down in weight to challenge GGG the way Dawson came down for him. If Ward did that and won he would get a lot of credit I think and would earn a small legion of fans that are on the GGG train.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
GGG has no chance vs Ward. He needs to stay far away from him.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Excuse me, I always switch up Macklin and Murray, darn MM names :-/.
Comparing Floyd who fought multiple champions at 130, a champ at 135, a champ at 140, multiple champions at 147 and multiple champions at 154 to a guy who as of yet has fought no big fights makes no sense.
You say Floyd should move up AGAIN for ANOTHER big fight. GGG hasn't moved up once, there is a very clear difference and I can't figure out why tbis guy keeps getting excused. He's done NOTHING. I want to see him be the fighter I said he could be but so far I'm embarrassed I said he was the best at 160 years ago.
He is 32 years old and needs to get out of that wasteland of a division and go make a big fight, his first big fight
I disagree with this post. GGG has fought the best possible middleweights out there. Has he turned down a fight at 160? Not that I'm aware of. There are still plenty of good fights for him at 160 including Martinez, Murray, Geale and Sturm (Quillin doesn't count because he's on the other side of the street with networks and promoters). He has not cleaned out the division. In my opinion, he should clean out the division before he moves up. If there comes a point in time, maybe one year from now, where Martinez has retired without facing him, and Murray, Geale and Sturm continue to refuse to face him, then let's reconsider him moving up. At this point though, it's premature.
This is in stark contrast to Ward who has cleaned out the division. Ward should consider moving up in weight now because he's beat everyone at his weight. What else is there left to prove at 168 for Ward? Nothing in my opinion.
I wonder if Ward has the balls to come down in weight to challenge GGG the way Dawson came down for him. If Ward did that and won he would get a lot of credit I think and would earn a small legion of fans that are on the GGG train.
That's actually a decent point. Would Ward do the fight at 160? Have they spoken about fighting at middleweight?
-
I apologize for this thread. I had really high hopes for GGG and I've been disappointed by what he's done. He's looked great but beating middle of the road jr middles and middle of the road middleweights is beneath him in my opinion.
When I read his manager say "he's not ready" I reacted with emotion. I honestly think Middleweight is a terrible class and hqs been for 30 years. Its best days are when welters move up. I want better for GGG than beating an old broke down Martinez. Better than beating a fraud like Sturm.
Ward is outgrowing 168, I think that much was obvious from his appearance last fight. And if GGG doesn't fight him soon he probably won't ever fight him. So "he's not ready" hit me hard.
I just don't want to see GGG go to 168 after Froch is washed up and Ward is gone. I've waited for years for GGGs big fights, guess I just have to keep waiting.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I apologize for this thread. I had really high hopes for GGG and I've been disappointed by what he's done. He's looked great but beating middle of the road jr middles and middle of the road middleweights is beneath him in my opinion.
When I read his manager say "he's not ready" I reacted with emotion. I honestly think Middleweight is a terrible class and hqs been for 30 years. Its best days are when welters move up. I want better for GGG than beating an old broke down Martinez. Better than beating a fraud like Sturm.
Ward is outgrowing 168, I think that much was obvious from his appearance last fight. And if GGG doesn't fight him soon he probably won't ever fight him. So "he's not ready" hit me hard.
I just don't want to see GGG go to 168 after Froch is washed up and Ward is gone. I've waited for years for GGGs big fights, guess I just have to keep waiting.
Gee Ron... I really feel bad for you. I'll get a prayer circle started for ya.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
GGG has no chance vs Ward. He needs to stay far away from him.
Absolutely none, jesus christ couldnt help him. Andre ward would make him look like a pedestrian.
Ward Tko9 GGG
Just wake me up when GGG fights an A level opposition..
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
he just doesnt have many people around him to fight. at least he has been active. thats better than most people in his position can say.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
GGG is doing the best he can with what is available for him. He has belts and is the disputed middleweight champion. Sergio is the only one that has a case but he is inactive and ready to retire. What more can GGG do at this weight? I am sure he will move up eventually but maybe he is too small for that yet.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
GGG has no chance vs Ward. He needs to stay far away from him.
At 160? There is every chance Ward gets KTFO by GGG at 160.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Onix
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Excuse me, I always switch up Macklin and Murray, darn MM names :-/.
Comparing Floyd who fought multiple champions at 130, a champ at 135, a champ at 140, multiple champions at 147 and multiple champions at 154 to a guy who as of yet has fought no big fights makes no sense.
You say Floyd should move up AGAIN for ANOTHER big fight. GGG hasn't moved up once, there is a very clear difference and I can't figure out why tbis guy keeps getting excused. He's done NOTHING. I want to see him be the fighter I said he could be but so far I'm embarrassed I said he was the best at 160 years ago.
He is 32 years old and needs to get out of that wasteland of a division and go make a big fight, his first big fight
I disagree with this post. GGG has fought the best possible middleweights out there. Has he turned down a fight at 160? Not that I'm aware of. There are still plenty of good fights for him at 160 including Martinez, Murray, Geale and Sturm (Quillin doesn't count because he's on the other side of the street with networks and promoters). He has not cleaned out the division. In my opinion, he should clean out the division before he moves up. If there comes a point in time, maybe one year from now, where Martinez has retired without facing him, and Murray, Geale and Sturm continue to refuse to face him, then let's reconsider him moving up. At this point though, it's premature.
This is in stark contrast to Ward who has cleaned out the division. Ward should consider moving up in weight now because he's beat everyone at his weight. What else is there left to prove at 168 for Ward? Nothing in my opinion.
I wonder if Ward has the balls to come down in weight to challenge GGG the way Dawson came down for him. If Ward did that and won he would get a lot of credit I think and would earn a small legion of fans that are on the GGG train.
That's actually a decent point. Would Ward do the fight at 160? Have they spoken about fighting at middleweight?
Ward strikes me as the type that wouldn't give any advantage to anyone, I like Ward as a person and he is a great fighter but he doesn't have that blind hunger to be #1 at all costs.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
I think theres no point in GGG moving up yet if he can easily make the weight. Theres still decent fights to be made at 160 for him like Martinez, Quillen, Murray and Sturm. If he can beat all of these fighters he should move up then. As his trainer said it will give him a bigger bargaining tool with Ward and will bring the fight on an even level, not Ward demanding more with his higher p4p ranking. GGG needs to fight the best in the weight class now, I cant see Adama lasting too long with him and this kind of fight does nothing but add another KO onto his record. I hope GGG steps it up the fight after this one.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Shaw: HBO Took a Pass on Golovkin-Geale Fight - Boxing News
Apparently Geale turned down the monte carlo date with GGG because he wanted them to fight on HBO. GGG has an april date with HBO but HBO have passed on a GGG-Geale showdown and apparently James Kirkland is going to fight GGG. I think GGG-Geale is a better match than a Kirkland one, but no doubt GGG-Kirkland would be fireworks whilst it lasted.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Shaw: HBO Took a Pass on Golovkin-Geale Fight - Boxing News
Apparently Geale turned down the monte carlo date with GGG because he wanted them to fight on HBO. GGG has an april date with HBO but HBO have passed on a GGG-Geale showdown and apparently James Kirkland is going to fight GGG. I think GGG-Geale is a better match than a Kirkland one, but no doubt GGG-Kirkland would be fireworks whilst it lasted.
Kudos to Hbo! I mean do we really need to see GGG aginst another B level opponent in geale at this point?
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Shaw: HBO Took a Pass on Golovkin-Geale Fight - Boxing News
Apparently Geale turned down the monte carlo date with GGG because he wanted them to fight on HBO. GGG has an april date with HBO but HBO have passed on a GGG-Geale showdown and apparently James Kirkland is going to fight GGG. I think GGG-Geale is a better match than a Kirkland one, but no doubt GGG-Kirkland would be fireworks whilst it lasted.
Kudos to Hbo! I mean do we really need to see GGG aginst another B level opponent in geale at this point?
Looking at who GGG has faced id say Geale would be top of the list if they did fight. I think Geale would outbox Macklin.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Geale is quite a bit better than Kirkland, but neither would have much of a chance against Golovkin imo. People often say "it will be fireworks while it lasts", to describe a mismatch between two action fighters. Would it really be that riveting to see Golovkin beat the hell out of Kirkland just because both have aggressive styles? They are a completely different level of fighter, and I don't think Kirkland has ever fought at 160 to boot.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Shaw: HBO Took a Pass on Golovkin-Geale Fight - Boxing News
Apparently Geale turned down the monte carlo date with GGG because he wanted them to fight on HBO. GGG has an april date with HBO but HBO have passed on a GGG-Geale showdown and apparently James Kirkland is going to fight GGG. I think GGG-Geale is a better match than a Kirkland one, but no doubt GGG-Kirkland would be fireworks whilst it lasted.
Kudos to Hbo! I mean do we really need to see GGG aginst another B level opponent in geale at this point?
Looking at who GGG has faced id say Geale would be top of the list if they did fight.
I think Geale would outbox Macklin.
I agree with that but I dont think Geale is so much better than GGG's past victims. I pretty much put them in the same bracket.
This can't be seen as a step up fight for GGG, that's for sure.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Geale is quite a bit better than Kirkland, but neither would have much of a chance against Golovkin imo. People often say "it will be fireworks while it lasts", to describe a mismatch between two action fighters. Would it really be that riveting to see Golovkin beat the hell out of Kirkland just because both have aggressive styles? They are a completely different level of fighter, and I don't think Kirkland has ever fought at 160 to boot.
Kirkland wouldn't take a backwards step and would land a few heavy shots I think. But his aggression would no doubt be his demise as well and he would walk onto shots. But it would be good whilst it lasted.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FinitoElDinamita
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Shaw: HBO Took a Pass on Golovkin-Geale Fight - Boxing News
Apparently Geale turned down the monte carlo date with GGG because he wanted them to fight on HBO. GGG has an april date with HBO but HBO have passed on a GGG-Geale showdown and apparently James Kirkland is going to fight GGG. I think GGG-Geale is a better match than a Kirkland one, but no doubt GGG-Kirkland would be fireworks whilst it lasted.
Kudos to Hbo! I mean do we really need to see GGG aginst another B level opponent in geale at this point?
Looking at who GGG has faced id say Geale would be top of the list if they did fight.
I think Geale would outbox Macklin.
I agree with that but I dont think Geale is so much better than GGG's past victims. I pretty much put them in the same bracket.
This can't be seen as a step up fight for GGG, that's for sure.
Hes better than Adama, and if the choice is Geale or Kirkland for his next fight I think he should have taken Geale.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
I think theres no point in GGG moving up yet if he can easily make the weight. Theres still decent fights to be made at 160 for him like Martinez, Quillen, Murray and Sturm. If he can beat all of these fighters he should move up then. As his trainer said it will give him a bigger bargaining tool with Ward and will bring the fight on an even level, not Ward demanding more with his higher p4p ranking. GGG needs to fight the best in the weight class now, I cant see Adama lasting too long with him and this kind of fight does nothing but add another KO onto his record. I hope GGG steps it up the fight after this one.
If GGG was fighting Quillen, Martinez or even Geale then sure stay at MW. But he isn't. As for this proposed Kirkland fight, I've seen him fight enough Jr Middles at Middleweight. I'm beginning to think I'm just not a GGG fan because his people are lying. The story that they can fight all those Middleweights and then move to 168 for Ward is hogwash. Ward will be at 175 soon. If GGGs people said we have no interest in Ward we're cleaning out Middleweight I could support that. But deception from a camp that still hasn't earnned the right to BS is offensive. I'll be a fan when he finally steps up, you all can watch these garbage mismatches I won't
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
I think theres no point in GGG moving up yet if he can easily make the weight. Theres still decent fights to be made at 160 for him like Martinez, Quillen, Murray and Sturm. If he can beat all of these fighters he should move up then. As his trainer said it will give him a bigger bargaining tool with Ward and will bring the fight on an even level, not Ward demanding more with his higher p4p ranking. GGG needs to fight the best in the weight class now, I cant see Adama lasting too long with him and this kind of fight does nothing but add another KO onto his record. I hope GGG steps it up the fight after this one.
If GGG was fighting Quillen, Martinez or even Geale then sure stay at MW. But he isn't. As for this proposed Kirkland fight, I've seen him fight enough Jr Middles at Middleweight. I'm beginning to think I'm just not a GGG fan because his people are lying. The story that they can fight all those Middleweights and then move to 168 for Ward is hogwash. Ward will be at 175 soon. If GGGs people said we have no interest in Ward we're cleaning out Middleweight I could support that. But deception from a camp that still hasn't earnned the right to BS is offensive. I'll be a fan when he finally steps up, you all can watch these garbage mismatches I won't
He does need to step it up and I do agree with that. Its weird how he got fighter of the year and hes not fought anybody decent. I hope he does fight a genuine 160 champion or contender soon because beating nobodies is easy.
-
A 32 year old "champion" of 8 defenses yet to take on a top fighter, something is wrong with that picture. And even though there are good fighters that want to fight him everyone seems to give him free reign to pass because he says he's going to fight the top Middleweights even though there is no supportive evidence that he will. In fact there is reasonable evidence other things are in the works.
It's mind bottling
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
GGG is on that Lucian Bute style bum tour.. Shit better come to a halt sometime cuz seriously, it's starting to turn into a joke.
I dont consider him a real champion.. How the hell can you be a champion when you've never fought an elite opposition..
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Elite opposition don't want to fight him. HBO want to match Martinez and Golovkin asap and Golovkin wants the fight. The problem is getting Martinez to take the fight.
You can't really blame Golovkin for not wanting to rush to move up in weight to fight the p4p number two guy who is nearly a light heavy anyway.
-
So they say GGG will take on anyone from 154-175 and a bunch of guys come out and say let's do it, now you can go to fighthype and watch GGGs manager say
"It's UNFAIR to ask him to go to a weight that's beyond him" GTFOoH. Unfair to ask you to do what you say?!
Anyone 154-175, now that challenges have risen both GGG and his manager can be seen(yes GGG is towing the line as well now video on fighthype)saying
"We're concentrating on 160"
Really? Because HBO says you'll be fighting another non-champion Jr Middleweight named Kirkland in April. Who's lying, we can see you don't stand by your word, guess we'll know soon if you're liars or HBO is.
Just a little extra can you believe this f'n guy for ya, when asked what fight he wants most he doesn't say a top guy like Ward, he doesn't say a guy that will help him unify 160 he says....
"Julio Cesar Chavez Jr" and get this
"At 160" as if he can even make 160 haha. I've gone from huge support to frustration with this guy fighting nobodies. Now he's towing the company lines and lying. I'm not even angry anymore, he's simply a fraud I misjudged him.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
I think theres no point in GGG moving up yet if he can easily make the weight. Theres still decent fights to be made at 160 for him like Martinez, Quillen, Murray and Sturm. If he can beat all of these fighters he should move up then. As his trainer said it will give him a bigger bargaining tool with Ward and will bring the fight on an even level, not Ward demanding more with his higher p4p ranking. GGG needs to fight the best in the weight class now, I cant see Adama lasting too long with him and this kind of fight does nothing but add another KO onto his record. I hope GGG steps it up the fight after this one.
I
f GGG was fighting Quillen, Martinez or even Geale then sure stay at MW. But he isn't. As for this proposed Kirkland fight, I've seen him fight enough Jr Middles at Middleweight. I'm beginning to think I'm just not a GGG fan because his people are lying. The story that they can fight all those Middleweights and then move to 168 for Ward is hogwash. Ward will be at 175 soon. If GGGs people said we have no interest in Ward we're cleaning out Middleweight I could support that. But deception from a camp that still hasn't earnned the right to BS is offensive. I'll be a fan when he finally steps up, you all can watch these garbage mismatches I won't
You must hate Andre Ward then for staying at 168 when he actually has cleaned out the division, fought Edwin Rodriguez, made Chad Dawson come down to 168, wanted to fight mismatches against Pavlik and Junior on HBO, and now refuses to move up to 175 where there are multiple competitive fights?
HBO prefers Kirkland to Geale because he's American. It's that simple. Kirkland is a name more casual fans recognize and Geale is an Australian that people aren't as familiar with.
Quillin needs to rematch Rosado before he does anything else in my opinion. He didn't have an extensive amateur career so he should develop more before facing the top middleweights.
Martinez wants his pay day before passing on the torch at 160 against Cotto. If Martinez beats Cotto without injuring himself again, I bet he takes on GGG for his last fight. There is no way to know though. If Martinez ducks GGG after facing Cotto, Quillin is still on Showtime and hasn't rematched Rosado, and Murray and Sturm refuse to face GGG, then at that point, even though GGG hasn't cleaned out the division, I see the point in moving up. Right now moving up would be premature when those fights are still potential options.
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Is there anyone at 160 that he has ducked?
-
Re: GGGs trainer says "he's not ready"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Is there anyone at 160 that he has ducked?
Lol not really I guess since the mw division is kinda weak but if he doesnt attempt to work something out with sturm, martinez, and quillin this year, yea its a duck..
No more geals, macklins, and those other euro joes.. he needs to fight the wolves now.
-
Wolves? Quillin is more like a puppy. Australia is not in Europe. Sturm and Martinez will avoid him.
