Are PPVs ruining boxing?

2014 already has more PPVs lined up than almost any previous year. Between January and July, there are 6 ppvs. That's a PPV per month.

Canelo vs. Angulo
Pacquiao vs. Bradley II
Mayweather vs. Maidana
Martinez vs. Cotto
Canelo vs. Lara
Junior vs. GGG

It's unfortunate because (1) it limits growth and (2) it requires boxing fans to pay a large amount of money to watch fights. To grow, boxing needs to appeal to as large a section of society as it can. The audience for a PPV is limited. Imagine how many people would watch Floyd if he fought on a regular network for one of his fights. Consider that HBO has 1.1 million people tune in for a Kovalev fight and HBO is a subscription based network.

At $70 per HD PPV event, if you bought every one of the above fights, that's $420 in addition to the cable subscription fees of $10-$15 per month per channel. Annually, before you include the prices of tickets for boxing events, it comes out to around $500. A basketball or soccer fan pays nothing to be fan. And they wonder why boxing is a niche sport?

Yes.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

2014 already has more PPVs lined up than almost any previous year. Between January and July, there are 6 ppvs. That's a PPV per month.

Canelo vs. Angulo
Pacquiao vs. Bradley II
Mayweather vs. Maidana
Martinez vs. Cotto
Canelo vs. Lara
Junior vs. GGG

It's unfortunate because (1) it limits growth and (2) it requires boxing fans to pay a large amount of money to watch fights. To grow, boxing needs to appeal to as large a section of society as it can. The audience for a PPV is limited. Imagine how many people would watch Floyd if he fought on a regular network for one of his fights. Consider that HBO has 1.1 million people tune in for a Kovalev fight and HBO is a subscription based network.

At $70 per HD PPV event, if you bought every one of the above fights, that's $420 in addition to the cable subscription fees of $10-$15 per month per channel. Annually, before you include the prices of tickets for boxing events, it comes out to around $500. A basketball or soccer fan pays nothing to be fan. And they wonder why boxing is a niche sport?

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Fighters make more money on PPV. After everything was added up Saul Alvarez took home around 5 to 6 million for the Angulo fight. If that fight wasn't on PPV he would of only took home 1.3 million. It makes sense to put it on PPV. As long as fights turn a profit they'll be on PPV

Obviously I would rather have the fights on regular HBO/ShowTime. But that's not the case. Not everything is free. I'm not gonna not watch the fights. So I'll just pay for all of them and watch them. Really it's not even all that much.

Yes

My interest has waned over last 3-4 years as I now don't pay for ppv fights or even see them if its on one of the subscription channels.

On saying that I am going to pay for Froch Groves II.

And I'm a fight fan - how is the casual fan ever going to come on board ?

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Yes

My interest has waned over last 3-4 years as I now don't pay for ppv fights or even see them if its on one of the subscription channels.

On saying that I am going to pay for Froch Groves II.

And I'm a fight fan - how is the casual fan ever going to come on board ?

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That's there problem.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

2014 already has more PPVs lined up than almost any previous year. Between January and July, there are 6 ppvs. That's a PPV per month.

Canelo vs. Angulo
Pacquiao vs. Bradley II
Mayweather vs. Maidana
Martinez vs. Cotto
Canelo vs. Lara
Junior vs. GGG

It's unfortunate because (1) it limits growth and (2) it requires boxing fans to pay a large amount of money to watch fights. To grow, boxing needs to appeal to as large a section of society as it can. The audience for a PPV is limited. Imagine how many people would watch Floyd if he fought on a regular network for one of his fights. Consider that HBO has 1.1 million people tune in for a Kovalev fight and HBO is a subscription based network.

At $70 per HD PPV event, if you bought every one of the above fights, that's $420 in addition to the cable subscription fees of $10-$15 per month per channel. Annually, before you include the prices of tickets for boxing events, it comes out to around $500. A basketball or soccer fan pays nothing to be fan. And they wonder why boxing is a niche sport?

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Fighters make more money on PPV. After everything was added up Saul Alvarez took home around 5 to 6 million for the Angulo fight. If that fight wasn't on PPV he would of only took home 1.3 million. It makes sense to put it on PPV. As long as fights turn a profit they'll be on PPV

Obviously I would rather have the fights on regular HBO/ShowTime. But that's not the case. Not everything is free. I'm not gonna not watch the fights. So I'll just pay for all of them and watch them. Really it's not even all that much.

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No doubt it it is good for the fighters.

But, think about it. If you are a soccer or baseball fan you can watch games for free all the time, even the biggest games of the season. Occasionally, you shell out for tickets to a game. If you are a boxing fan, you're dropping over $500 just to watch events without including the cost of tickets for matches. How can the sport grow if it costs so much money to be a fan?

The networks and promoters (and fighters) aren't after growing boxing, they're after making money. If there were ten boxers who could carry a PPV there'd be twenty to thirty PPVs a year.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

2014 already has more PPVs lined up than almost any previous year. Between January and July, there are 6 ppvs. That's a PPV per month.

Canelo vs. Angulo
Pacquiao vs. Bradley II
Mayweather vs. Maidana
Martinez vs. Cotto
Canelo vs. Lara
Junior vs. GGG

It's unfortunate because (1) it limits growth and (2) it requires boxing fans to pay a large amount of money to watch fights. To grow, boxing needs to appeal to as large a section of society as it can. The audience for a PPV is limited. Imagine how many people would watch Floyd if he fought on a regular network for one of his fights. Consider that HBO has 1.1 million people tune in for a Kovalev fight and HBO is a subscription based network.

At $70 per HD PPV event, if you bought every one of the above fights, that's $420 in addition to the cable subscription fees of $10-$15 per month per channel. Annually, before you include the prices of tickets for boxing events, it comes out to around $500. A basketball or soccer fan pays nothing to be fan. And they wonder why boxing is a niche sport?

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Fighters make more money on PPV. After everything was added up Saul Alvarez took home around 5 to 6 million for the Angulo fight. If that fight wasn't on PPV he would of only took home 1.3 million. It makes sense to put it on PPV. As long as fights turn a profit they'll be on PPV

Obviously I would rather have the fights on regular HBO/ShowTime. But that's not the case. Not everything is free. I'm not gonna not watch the fights. So I'll just pay for all of them and watch them. Really it's not even all that much.

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No doubt it it is good for the fighters.

But, think about it. If you are a soccer or baseball fan you can watch games for free all the time, even the biggest games of the season. Occasionally, you shell out for tickets to a game. If you are a boxing fan, you're dropping over $500 just to watch events without including the cost of tickets for matches. How can the sport grow if it costs so much money to be a fan?

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The sport grows at it's own pace. Always has. It'll never been as high as them other sports. But it will always be around. Boxing is immortal. It will never die

Only in America

PPVs are damaging to the sport but more importantly, the shrinkage of quality matchups due to politics is the bigger problem imo..

I had no issues ordering Don King ppvs in the 90s..

Yeah, boxing was beginning to get ruined by ppv in the mid-1980s, and it's just got worse and worse with each decade.

At least then, PPV was saved for only the biggest fights featuring the biggest Draws, and free tv still hosted plenty of World Championship fights. Then these promoters started trying to put every piece of $#!t fight on ppv... even if it featured guys that were not Draws.

It's bull$#!t, people pay for HBO, then they gotta pay extra for the Boxing event on HBO...

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

PPVs are damaging to the sport but more importantly, the shrinkage of quality matchups due to politics is the bigger problem imo..

I had no issues ordering Don King ppvs in the 90s..

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agreed - I paid for every fight going up to a few years ago

Good point. We don't pay for the Super Bowl or the World Series. If these fights were on regular TV it may cut the purse at first but if it allowed boxing to be to become mainstream again it would probably increase revenue over time. Stupid to limit boxings appeal in such a way but I guess for now the number crunchers figured it was the way to go. It just pissed me off I pay for Showtime and HBO and they make these fights that shouldn't be ppv.

Make the Superbowl ppv and watch the millionaire players become billionaires but only a small group of people paying for it. Sport would die.

Blame the government for not stepping in... if I was a promoter, id do the same thing..

Make golf ppv, basketball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey let's piss everyone off.

You have to remember too that the sports mentioned above all have cities and regions associated with their namesakes. Fighters are their own entity. What I'm hoping for is a fight network to be formed that charges a monthly subscription fee and then has all of the big cards, like the WWE has just formed and what I heard is being formed by the UFC. What do those companies all have though?? A central organizing body. That's the real killer of boxing. The fcking mass of Bulshit that operates it's events.

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Originally Posted by DannyV297

You have to remember too that the sports mentioned above all have cities and regions associated with their namesakes. Fighters are their own entity. What I'm hoping for is a fight network to be formed that charges a monthly subscription fee and then has all of the big cards, like the WWE has just formed and what I heard is being formed by the UFC. What do those companies all have though?? A central organizing body. That's the real killer of boxing. The fcking mass of Bulshit that operates it's events.

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Thats why boxnation is great. It may not be great for English cards but its US shows are top notch

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

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Originally Posted by DannyV297

You have to remember too that the sports mentioned above all have cities and regions associated with their namesakes. Fighters are their own entity. What I'm hoping for is a fight network to be formed that charges a monthly subscription fee and then has all of the big cards, like the WWE has just formed and what I heard is being formed by the UFC. What do those companies all have though?? A central organizing body. That's the real killer of boxing. The fcking mass of Bulshit that operates it's events.

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Thats why boxnation is great. It may not be great for English cards but its US shows are top notch

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I wish there was an American Version.

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Originally Posted by Master

Make golf ppv, basketball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey let's piss everyone off.

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Shhh... don't say that too loud. They're probably already planning it.

PPV is like a virus. It's just gonna continue to spread to unworthy fights (it has already), and eventually to sports we now watch for free. It's the ever-present tendency of the capitalist world. Some may not remember life before cable TV, but it used to be that broadcasted programs were free. All you had to do was buy the TV set. Same goes for bottled water, pay toilets, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

So we can piss and moan all we want. Soon enough we'll have Joe Blow fighting Mike Schmuck on PPV for a "mere" $200 PPV fee, and we'll still be bitching while reaching into our pockets to shell out the money.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Blame the government for not stepping in... if I was a promoter, id do the same thing..

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Absolutely, that's why promoters get no love

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Originally Posted by Master

Make golf ppv, basketball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey let's piss everyone off.

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Oh yeah, they're going to be pissed. At you!
Don't go outside for a few weeks, you are going to have people carrying golf clubs, hockey sticks, baseball bats and I don't know what all looking for you.

The problem isn't PPV. PPV is a necessity in a SPECTACLE-driven sport like boxing. People here who are drawing comparisons to other sports like basketball, hockey, baseball, ect are missing the point completely. These are totally different things. Baseball teams play 162 games a season. Hockey and basketball teams play 82 games a season. Compare that to the average PPV fighter, who may fight 1-3 times a year. There's a lot more luster involved in a PPV fighter's boxing match. Yeah, it'd be great if we got EVERYTHING for free, me me me, gimme gimme gimme, blah blah blah. Grow up, that's not how the world works. There is a lot of overhead cost involved in putting off these shows.

The problem is there is the lack of free content and "give-back" by the promotion companies, which also acts as a way of getting the general public introduced and emotionally invested in the fighters. Look at the UFC: they were putting on exciting fights for YEARS and nobody gave a shit. It wasn't until The Ultimate Fighter and the free finale where people got to know and get invested in the fighters that it blew up. The UFC are constantly putting out free cards on FOX to introduce fans to up and comers.

When you're making EVERYTHING a PPV, including a lot of fights that really shouldn't, you're not giving the general public a chance to attach to these fighters.

But it's not going to change, because these lousy PPVs are still making big money off the names alone.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

The problem isn't PPV. PPV is a necessity in a SPECTACLE-driven sport like boxing. People here who are drawing comparisons to other sports like basketball, hockey, baseball, ect are missing the point completely. These are totally different things. Baseball teams play 162 games a season. Hockey and basketball teams play 82 games a season. Compare that to the average PPV fighter, who may fight 1-3 times a year. There's a lot more luster involved in a PPV fighter's boxing match. Yeah, it'd be great if we got EVERYTHING for free, me me me, gimme gimme gimme, blah blah blah. Grow up, that's not how the world works. There is a lot of overhead cost involved in putting off these shows.

The problem is there is the lack of free content and "give-back" by the promotion companies, which also acts as a way of getting the general public introduced and emotionally invested in the fighters. Look at the UFC: they were putting on exciting fights for YEARS and nobody gave a shit. It wasn't until The Ultimate Fighter and the free finale where people got to know and get invested in the fighters that it blew up. The UFC are constantly putting out free cards on FOX to introduce fans to up and comers.

When you're making EVERYTHING a PPV, including a lot of fights that really shouldn't, you're not giving the general public a chance to attach to these fighters.

But it's not going to change, because these lousy PPVs are still making big money off the names alone.

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That's a pretty good point.

However, boxing has no major network backing it, like UFC has Fox. It's only on premium cable so it's audience is inherently limited, and the biggest fighters in boxing never even fight on premium cable.

I don't know UFC, but did their biggest stars ever participate on UFC Fox?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

That's a pretty good point.

However, boxing has no major network backing it, like UFC has Fox. It's only on premium cable so it's audience is inherently limited, and the biggest fighters in boxing never even fight on premium cable.

I don't know UFC, but did their biggest stars ever participate on UFC Fox?

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Yeah, the UFC have put big stars on UFC Fox. Actually, the first one they ever did featured a main event for the Heavyweight title between Cain Velasquez (current HW champ) and Junior Dos Santos (former champ).

Now these cards aren't up to PPV standards, but they are usually headlined by a championship fight, or at least by a fight between two fan favorites/top contenders.

Now if Top Rank, GBP, ect went to a major network and said "hey, we'll give you these free fights headlined by a big name", I'm sure they could get it. I'm not saying put Floyd vs Canelo on free TV. But Canelo vs Angulo? Why not? Why not a bounce-back fight like Pacquiao/Rios? Give them the big upcoming punchers, Kovalev, Stevenson, GGG, and back it up with upcomers.

But they won`t do that, because boxing is set up to be very short sighted. It goes night to night like a travelling circus and is only concerned with squeezing every nickel out of every fight without thought going into developing the future. Put Canelo on free TV, draw big crowds, and use Canelo`s spotlight to shine a light on some up and comers on the undercard. Tell the people their stories with well produced video packages.

Instead we have a handful of guys with all the heat and a ton of other guys left in the cold. And what happens when Pac and Mayweather are retired... they`re going to be scrambling for another cash cow but it won`t be there because they never put in the work to develop anyone.

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

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Originally Posted by Master

Make golf ppv, basketball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey let's piss everyone off.

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Oh yeah, they're going to be pissed. At you!
Don't go outside for a few weeks, you are going to have people carrying golf clubs, hockey sticks, baseball bats and I don't know what all looking for you.

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Tyson has got my back who has got their Tiger Woods?

Ppv will kill off careers like Canelo who is young and has to fight top fighter each time because of the demand of ppv.

I'm convinved most sports will be either PPV or else some kind of subscribtion based service. In football less and less gets shown on English tv and theres already talk of the World Cups being shown on Sky Sports.

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Originally Posted by Master

Make golf ppv, basketball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey let's piss everyone off.

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What a dumb arse person you are.
No wonder nobody responds to you

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

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Originally Posted by Master

Make golf ppv, basketball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey let's piss everyone off.

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What a dumb arse person you are.
No wonder nobody responds to you

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Please piss off.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

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Originally Posted by Master

Make golf ppv, basketball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey let's piss everyone off.

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What a dumb arse person you are.
No wonder nobody responds to you

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Please piss off.

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No can do!

Stream it like the rest of us do. When they can guarantee a knockout or a masterful performance, I can guarantee i'll find the money to pay for it. In the meantime, these matches are horrible and you're either paying to see one guy put on a showcase against an outmatched/rehyped opponent... or 2 guys that profess bad blood but fight like its about the money.

Just my opinion, but:
Canelo/Angulo was only worth paying for in Mexico - everyone knows Angulo was going to wear down and floyd didnt put much wear and tear on Canelo, but no matter who won, the Mexican people won. I liked watching the fight but i wouldn't pay for it.

Martinez/ Cotto- One hasn't fought since he beat Junior and accumulated ring rust and injuries and the other one has looked better recently but that wont erase how many miles and wars have been put on him over the years.

Pac and Bradley- many of the people buying this aren't doing so for an intriguing match up. They are paying for pac to right a wrong. Bradleys not a bad guy, but the bad taste his gift decision left in the mouths of fight fans can only be washed away with justice.

Floyd /Maidana- People will pay for the chance to see if MM can land a miracle punch or to have something to talk about Monday morning around the water cooler. How many of us think that a.) maidana would drop Mayweather with one punch B.) could land the succession of punches that would put floyd on his back for 10? c.) that this fight could go either way? based on what maidana did to "all flash and no cash" broner....

PPV hasn't been about boxing or sport in a while. Its shrink wrapping animosity, shticks, the next guy trying to do the impossible and slapping a 50 dollar price tag on it. It's a a sad reality that everyone knew that people knew Tyson fights would last 2 rounds but pay the money anyway. Why? because you know you were going to see a knockout or see someone else pull off a rarity and last till the end of the fight taking brutal Tyson punches for 12 rounds. It was a win-win. Boxing doesn't offer these type of deals anymore. I missed the days that right before a big PPV, i'd start pacing and get nervous, run to the the bathroom 2 twice because I didn't want to miss anything. Sit on the edge of my seat the entire time. I'd have all my friends over and everyone had a drink in hand and i'd find a sucker bet me that I couldn't call the outcome and the punch that would end it.

Now, I sit and watch the fights in front of a laptop jumping from feed to feed, and the most action happens when the chick catches me drooling over the top rank girls and tries to kills the streaming window.:-\

2 reasons why boxing became a niche sport in the U.S. The 1st major reason was that boxing was taken out of high schools and college in the mid 1950s, what this did was limit the sport to future participants. The 2nd major reason for its decline was that top level fighters urged by their promoters began gravitating towards fighting on HBO and Showtime exclusively instead, which are 2 premium networks with a small subscription compared to the big boys like ABC, NBC, Fox, CBS, which is free network tv. And that's how boxing is in the state it is in now, hardly any future participants in the U.S. and hardly shown to the casual viewer or sports fan.

American football and baseball are the top 2 most participated sport and the 2 most watched in the U.S. The 2 sports are supported at every level, especially during high school, plus they are shown on network tv, where the casual viewer and casual sports fan can watch without paying a dime.

Another example, compare boxing to MMA, where the basics of the sport which is wrestling is participated at the high school and college level, plus MMA is actually free on network tv for most of its fights, minus the big PPVs. MMA would be in the same state as boxing if wrestling was taken out of the high schools and colleges and if MMA went strictly to HBO and Showtime, but Dana White is too smart for that. Yes, many boxing fans may hate him, but the man ain't stupid.

No sport can survive without replenishing its fan base and future participants. Boxing within 60 years, coming from being the no. 2 sport behind baseball at the time in the U.S. in terms of popularity and participation to its current state as a niche sport. It is what it is.

No they are not. What is ruining boxing is rival promoters not willing to do business and corrupt organisations fixing rankings and hiring corrupt judges. Thats all thats ruining boxing.

In MMA the best fight the best. Why isnt it the same in boxing?

Maybe eroding. I do think boxing will look quite different within the next decade. If boxing was a plant PPV would be its root and the symbiotic relationship between promoters and broadcasters the over watering gardener.

They are now overcompensating in damage control for the exit of Floyd and Manny by increasing the dose.

Lots of light in the tunnel though with great fighters coming up around the world. Be good to get rid of these guys to be honest(in relationship to the ppv ?) and people ought not expect replacements. He could make 20 million fighting a ring tailed lemur and that's part of the problem. Guys like Floyd come around once in a generation with few exceptions.

You always hear about that 1% theory in our western economic systems where a small group have all the wealth well its kind of been that way with boxing over this past decade and personified by PPV. The world seems or seemed to revolve around 6 to 8 fighters. That is a pretty constricted market place in this new globally connected world and one that has to collapse on the weight of itself. I think the exit of Manny and especially Floyd might just start boxing back to re-potting itself and establishing a new root base. A few years of short term pain I suspect and ppv numbers start to dwindle and with that boxers salaries. They may try to revamp it but I truly believe its days are numbered and that pun was not intended.

You guys have to realize that with Manny and Floyd gone, you're also taking about a ton of revenue also leaving with them.

Boxing needs it's superstars, it's always been an "attraction" sport. And I just don't see anyone on the horizon that can carry the torch.

Especially now with MMA gaining so much popularity and replacing boxing as the world's premier combat sport.

Boxing is in rough shape.

Given the puke-provoking undercards, I do indeed.

Aren't PPV an extension of the live gate? Live TV needs sponsors to air, Sponsors need the audiance viewership for value to be there. For most non-title fights, people just don't have much intrest in watching. PPV makes it easier for the fighter to get a fair cut of the gate. I think a better model would be to go to POD Casts. I would definately stream Martinez vs Cotto or Provodnikov vs Algieri but would have a hard time buying the PPV. If there were a POD Cast @$5-10 bucks, I would buy it in a heart beat. It's not the PPV that hurts boxing, it's the promoter.

When Floyd and Pacqiao retires, they both will take a lot of revenues and whatever little interest that is in boxing with them. I can't wait for that day. Boxing has to really hit rock bottom for a lot of reformation to take place. It has to get really worse before it gets better. Problem is will boxing rebound with MMA now being the top combat sport in terms of participation and viewership?

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

No they are not. What is ruining boxing is rival promoters not willing to do business and corrupt organisations fixing rankings and hiring corrupt judges. Thats all thats ruining boxing.

In MMA the best fight the best. Why isnt it the same in boxing?

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MMA doesn't have many top fighters.

The best fighting the best is more like trash fighting trash....for PEANUTS.