Chris Eubank says fighting prime Roy Jones or James Toney would have been suicide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Var1...id=P-8mBF4OASA


Starts at about 23 minutes. I know there are a lot of people who slag Roy Jones and say he ducked Eubank and others, and that Eubank would have given him serious trouble.

Here Eubank admits a) that he never had any desire to chase those big fights and b) fighting prime Roy (and James Toney) would have been suicide.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Var1...id=P-8mBF4OASA


Starts at about 23 minutes. I know there are a lot of people who slag Roy Jones and say he ducked Eubank and others, and that Eubank would have given him serious trouble.

Here Eubank admits a) that he never had any desire to chase those big fights and b) fighting prime Roy (and James Toney) would have been suicide.

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He is right. Old age and time away form the ring sometimes brings perspective and honesty.


He's said this before about Roy, but this is the first time I've read about him saying such about James Toney.

It wasn't just Eubank that Roy missed at 168. He missed Benn, Collins, Nunn, Gracianno, and Liles as well. Toney was a HUGE win for him, but he didn't take on any tough fighters at 168 after that. And while I think Roy could've beaten all of those guys, u don't get credit for mythical wins...

I've heard him say this before.

But as honest as he is, I don't believe Jones wanted any of Eubank either.

Jones ducked Collins in their primes and he's still ducking him today.

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

I've heard him say this before.

But as honest as he is, I don't believe Jones wanted any of Eubank either.

Jones ducked Collins in their primes and he's still ducking him today.

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In order for it to be consider a duck the fighter supposedly being ducked must actually be a threat to the fighter supposedly doing the ducking. Collins was never, ever a threat to Jones. Not than. Not now.

Credit to Eubank. He acknowledged that the 168 guys from across the pond were in their own little island and that's why it was never necessary to cross the pond and likewise for Jones and Toney. Good deal Eubank. Revising history is great, but Calzaghe wasn't relevant here til after Hatton was. There was no demand, Dariusz Michalczewski was in more demand than Joe Calzaghe or anyone else around the weight class. Dariusz got beat by Julio Gonzalez and when Roy destroyed Gonzalez, it was written off. Not fair to criticize any of these guys for not beating an American. If Jeff Lacy had never come along, no one here would have ever given a fuck about Calzaghe but he still would have been a millionaire. That era of super middleweights existed on their own island, and that is not anybody's fault. It was simply the way to make money. Fighters don't fight really to prove who's best, it's to make the most money. So does everyone else posting here.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

It wasn't just Eubank that Roy missed at 168. He missed Benn, Collins, Nunn, Gracianno, and Liles as well.

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Did he miss them or did they miss him?

Benn fight never happened because Benn was promoted by Don King and Don's stipulation for making that fight was for him to get a 3 fight option on Roy (because he knew Roy would destroy his fighter and Don wanted to walk out with the winner one way or the other). Roy didn't want to deal with Don so the fight never happened.

Roy was the best p4p fighter, the guy who all these idiots should have been stepping over their mothers to fight. Why should the #1 p4p in boxing have to chase fight and conform to the stipulations of inferior fighters? These guys should have been coming to Roy, not the other way around.

Eubank was the only one of them to have the balls to admit it, but they all had the same logic as Eubank: Tiger, Eubank, Benn, Collins, ect were all making huge money fighting in their home towns and they had no desire to go over to America and risk getting destroyed by Roy Jones.

None of them were any real threat against Roy at 168. Roy or James Toney would have beaten the shit out of any of those good 'ol chaps.

Have heard Eubank say something similar before - openly admits it.

Benn wouldn't have ducked anyone.

I think Benn would have had a better chance v Jones than Eubank. Have to be honest I can't remember anything about Toney's career at Super Middle ?!?

Time to check boxrec.........:-\

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Have heard Eubank say something similar before - openly admits it.

Benn wouldn't have ducked anyone.

I think Benn would have had a better chance v Jones than Eubank. Have to be honest I can't remember anything about Toney's career at Super Middle ?!?

Time to check boxrec.........:-\

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You must remember the Johnathan Ross show where Toney and Micky Rourke were taking the piss out of Chris and Benn.

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Originally Posted by Master

You must remember the Johnathan Ross show where Toney and Micky Rourke were taking the piss out of Chris and Benn.

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Yes, Toney would have murdered both guys. Nigel was a great puncher but wasn't the most skilled. A primitive fighter like him would have gotten picked apart by RJJ and Toney.

Because Roy has looked like shit for the last 10 years being washed up, people assume that all it took was a big puncher and they could have knocked Roy out in his prime. Roy was one of the hardest guys to hit clean in boxing history, and he had HUGE power at 168 in both hands.

At 168, there's nobody in the history of boxing that was more a threat to you than RJJ

LMFAO @ Roy ducking Collins.. Who the fuck is Collins? smh

VD couldnt be more correct.. One actually has to be a " threat " for anybody to duck them..

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Have heard Eubank say something similar before - openly admits it.

Benn wouldn't have ducked anyone.

I think Benn would have had a better chance v Jones than Eubank. Have to be honest I can't remember anything about Toney's career at Super Middle ?!?

Time to check boxrec.........:-\

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You must remember the Johnathan Ross show where Toney and Micky Rourke were taking the piss out of Chris and Benn.

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yes thats all remember of him at that weight though !

oh and he kayoed Nunn didnt he - that might have been middleweight ?

Yeah that was at middleweight, whipped Nunn in his own home town in Iowa.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h227sP9Gc-I

James was amazing

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Yeah that was at middleweight, whipped Nunn in his own home town in Iowa.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h227sP9Gc-I

James was amazing

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Huge mistake on Nunn's part. He wanted to impress his crowd so he stayed in the pockets too long instead of using his legs. He could have easily won a decision had he boxed more..

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Yeah that was at middleweight, whipped Nunn in his own home town in Iowa.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h227sP9Gc-I

James was amazing

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Huge mistake on Nunn's part. He wanted to impress his crowd so he stayed in the pockets too long instead of using his legs. He could have easily won a decision had he boxed more..

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Brilliant fight from both undefeated and talented fighters.

Yeah Nunn won pretty much every round then BOOOM that left hook from hell. That was some Frazier/Ali 15th round shit.

Dm was the Leinel champ at 175 so Jones should of fought the guy no excuse for that one. So Dm lost go Julio and he was 35 and if was sd i mean at that age Jones got koed by Taver and was done with his prime by then. That fight i feel should happened he should of fought Dm he was the champ at 175.

160: Julian Jackson, G-Man were too guys Roy should've fought. Instead his best win was over a still green Hop n a blowout of contender Thomas Tate.

168: Benn, Eubank, Collins, Gracciano, Nunn, Liles were all threats who he missed. He had a great win over Toney, but the rest were guys like Thornton, Brannon, n Vinny Paz (yes, former 135 n 154 journeyman titlist).

175: missed Darius, his biggest threat n lineal champ. Griffith win was probably his best win. Other wins included del Valle, an ancient Mcallum, ancient Reggie Johnson (former 160 titlist), Glenn Kelley, ancient Virgil Hill, and a good win over Tarver who had to harass him to fight. Tarver stretched him I'm the rematch.

190: Vasilly Jirov, Oneil Bell, Mcormack, Braithwaite would've all loved to fight him for the payday. Roy never fought at 190 but would say he was going to to try n overcome the Roycott n sell out a quarter of an arena.

Heavy: beat the most limited titlist in Ruiz. To put the significance into perspective, an out of shape and fat James Toney beat Ruiz as well. Jones backed out of a fight with Douglas after his daddy told him to n never even signed to fight Tuson, Holy, Lewis... Etc despite saying he wanted to.

Now with all of those missed opportunities some is going to ask if Roy missed them, or they missed Roy. Roy ducked them. They can't make Roy get in the ring with them. Roy wanted nothing to do with top competition after the Toney fight until he started getting beat by everyone. Then he would jump in n get his head handed to him.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

160: Julian Jackson, G-Man were too guys Roy should've fought. Instead his best win was over a still green Hop n a blowout of contender Thomas Tate.

168: Benn, Eubank, Collins, Gracciano, Nunn, Liles were all threats who he missed. He had a great win over Toney, but the rest were guys like Thornton, Brannon, n Vinny Paz (yes, former 135 n 154 journeyman titlist).

175: missed Darius, his biggest threat n lineal champ. Griffith win was probably his best win. Other wins included del Valle, an ancient Mcallum, ancient Reggie Johnson (former 160 titlist), Glenn Kelley, ancient Virgil Hill, and a good win over Tarver who had to harass him to fight. Tarver stretched him I'm the rematch.

190: Vasilly Jirov, Oneil Bell, Mcormack, Braithwaite would've all loved to fight him for the payday. Roy never fought at 190 but would say he was going to to try n overcome the Roycott n sell out a quarter of an arena.

Heavy: beat the most limited titlist in Ruiz. To put the significance into perspective, an out of shape and fat James Toney beat Ruiz as well. Jones backed out of a fight with Douglas after his daddy told him to n never even signed to fight Tuson, Holy, Lewis... Etc despite saying he wanted to.

Now with all of those missed opportunities some is going to ask if Roy missed them, or they missed Roy. Roy ducked them. They can't make Roy get in the ring with them. Roy wanted nothing to do with top competition after the Toney fight until he started getting beat by everyone. Then he would jump in n get his head handed to him.

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That is hyper critical of Roy.

I am sure G Man was not champion when Roy was around at middleweight.

Beating Toney is better than all those other fighters.

Dariuz was a threat but Roy was the man so he had to come to him.

Roy never fought at cruiser weight in his prime.

Roy beating Ruiz was great for any fighter coming from such low weights.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

Now with all of those missed opportunities some is going to ask if Roy missed them, or they missed Roy. Roy ducked them. They can't make Roy get in the ring with them. Roy wanted nothing to do with top competition after the Toney fight until he started getting beat by everyone. Then he would jump in n get his head handed to him.

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Same old bullshit. Yawn.

From a 2012 interview

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Who was the best fighter you ever fought?

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By far, Michael Watson in our second fight

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Is it true that you wanted nothing to do with the Michael Nunn & James Toney?

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Thats interesting, because I signed to fight both Nunn and James Toney. As part of the contract with Don King for Nunn, where I was the first fighter to get one over on him when me and Nigel drew. And as part of the contract with SKY for James Toney, where I was the first fighter to sign for a TV company direct, but he lost to Roy Jones.

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Did Roy Jones Jr duck you?

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It was never mandated. But I asked Roy Jones about 10 or 12 years ago if he'd said back in 93 that the one fighter he thought would give him problems and had reservations of taking on was me. He told me yes that was true

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Did you take on all the toughest challenges in your career in your opinion?

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“As world champion, what you want to avoid is a southpaw who is 6ft or more and unbeaten or been world champion. Rocchigiani and Calzaghe were fights that no other fighter would take. I took them, even though they weren’t even mandated.

“Not even Roy Jones, rated as the best pound-for-pound fighter in history by some writers, would take that fight even when it was mandated to.”
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Personally I have always thought that Chris would have been Roys toughest fight.
I also believe that Chris would have kicked the living shit out of James legend it his own mind wind bag Toney. Quite possibly the most overrated fighter in history.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quite possibly the most overrated fighter in history.

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How anyone could watch prime James and come to that conclusion is beyond me. One of the most underrated guys ever.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quite possibly the most overrated fighter in history.

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How anyone could watch prime James and come to that conclusion is beyond me. One of the most underrated guys ever.

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I have never seen this prime James Toney. When was that and who was that against? Sorry but a little shoulder roll off the ropes and ducking a punch from a no hoper is not greatness. Who did he beat? He managed a win over the body snatcher and Jirov at cruiser. He's probably the reason they moved the yard stick north. He's a blowhard who never accomplished squat and I'll say it again, one of the most overrated underachieving wind bags ever. I'd like to know who this James Toney is everyone keeps yacking on about year in and year out. The guy should be on the show "Urban Legends"

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quite possibly the most overrated fighter in history.

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How anyone could watch prime James and come to that conclusion is beyond me. One of the most underrated guys ever.

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I have never seen this prime James Toney. When was that and who was that against? Sorry but a little shoulder roll off the ropes and ducking a punch from a no hoper is not greatness. Who did he beat? He managed a win over the body snatcher and Jirov at cruiser. He's probably the reason they moved the yard stick north. He's a blowhard who never accomplished squat and I'll say it again, one of the most overrated underachieving wind bags ever. I'd like to know who this James Toney is everyone keeps yacking on about year in and year out. The guy should be on the show "Urban Legends"

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Here is an objective list...

1. Roy

2. Toney

3. Hops

50 years from now, nobody is going to watch old fights of hopkins and be in awe.. they will just say " oh that guy who fought into old age with an unwatchable style "...

People will always look back at a young Roy and Toney and be mesmerized by their capablities..

Toney-McCallum 1, Nunn, Jirov, and Sam peter 1.. case closed..

Even when toney was fat and out of shape, he beat a prime Peter ( unofficially ) with his skills alone.. who does that? Lol

Only a natural fighter can do that, a true throwback. Can hopkins do that?

And lol @ hops being more impressive than George Foreman.. his KO over Moorer is greater than anything hops ever did which includes robbing the fans with fake shoulder injuries, crying like a bitch against calzaghe, groveling on the floor for free points against a shot roy... he's pathetic..

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quite possibly the most overrated fighter in history.

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How anyone could watch prime James and come to that conclusion is beyond me. One of the most underrated guys ever.

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I have never seen this prime James Toney. When was that and who was that against? Sorry but a little shoulder roll off the ropes and ducking a punch from a no hoper is not greatness. Who did he beat? He managed a win over the body snatcher and Jirov at cruiser. He's probably the reason they moved the yard stick north. He's a blowhard who never accomplished squat and I'll say it again, one of the most overrated underachieving wind bags ever. I'd like to know who this James Toney is everyone keeps yacking on about year in and year out. The guy should be on the show "Urban Legends"

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I normally agree with you but Toney beat an undefeated Nunn (in his home town), McCallum (although I thought he lost), he did have some bad performances because of weight issues but he moved up weight and schooled Barclay with beautiful display of boxing/brutality, ko Williams was quality, outboxing Jirov in a classic and the rest at heavyweight was a bonus.

Calzaghe vs Toney, who would have won?

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Calzaghe vs Toney, who would have won?

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At their best I would say Joe Calzaghe, he would box from the outside, James was too dangerous close up with the right hand.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Quite possibly the most overrated fighter in history.

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How anyone could watch prime James and come to that conclusion is beyond me. One of the most underrated guys ever.

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I have never seen this prime James Toney. When was that and who was that against? Sorry but a little shoulder roll off the ropes and ducking a punch from a no hoper is not greatness. Who did he beat? He managed a win over the body snatcher and Jirov at cruiser. He's probably the reason they moved the yard stick north. He's a blowhard who never accomplished squat and I'll say it again, one of the most overrated underachieving wind bags ever. I'd like to know who this James Toney is everyone keeps yacking on about year in and year out. The guy should be on the show "Urban Legends"

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I normally agree with you but Toney beat an undefeated Nunn (in his home town), McCallum (although I thought he lost), he did have some bad performances because of weight issues but he moved up weight and schooled Barclay with beautiful display of boxing/brutality, ko Williams was quality, outboxing Jirov in a classic and the rest at heavyweight was a bonus.

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He caught Nunn asleep after he dominated James for the entire fight. Yes he beat Mike in a close one but that's it. He robbed Tiberi. Iran was an overachiever short on everything skill wise and made a name for himself by having Tommy's number. James Toney has no business even being mentioned with the best super mids in the business let alone the great fighters. Sorry man but this is one of those times when facts say otherwise about the life and times of James Toney. He's got a big mouth and a catchy nic. That's about it. He was a no better hev than middle or super middle. He just didn't do anything except show shades of brilliance on highlight reels against for the most part over the hill fighters.

James Toney skills are natural and instinctive. The moves he had at such an early age could not be taught. He was a skilled genius in the ring.

Is Roy Jones the GOAT?

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Is Roy Jones the GOAT?

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No, he is the greatest boxer I have seen since 1986.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

Is Roy Jones the GOAT?

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H2H, Roy is the greatest of all time before HW..

Roy Jones: BHOP, Toney, Griffith (rematch), Tarver (first fight), Ruiz. Those r his biggest wins, only guy he ever beat rated p4p at the time was Toney.

James Toney: Mike Mcallum, Michael Nunn, Prince Charles Williams, Evander, Jirov, Sam Peter, Ruiz, Reggie Johnson. Mcallum n Nunn were ranked p4p, Evander, Jirov n Peter were impressive wins though.

Hop: Tito, Oscar, Winky, Tarver, Pascal, Pavilik, Cloud. When he beat them Tito (2), Winky (3), Tarver (6), and Pavilik (4) were all p4pguys. Not to mention close, disputed losses to Taylor (undefeated n p4p for second fight), n Joe C(#2).

Anyone who days Roy is the GOAT doesn't know boxing. Straight up. If u say "Roy is talented n could've beaten anyone 160-175 in history of the sport", that makes sense. If u r one of the few clowns on here saying everyone ducked Roy n his wins over Glenn Kelley n Vinny Paz make him the GOAT, u don't know the sport at all.

I've never heard anybody on boxing inside ever slag Toney's skill.

Manny Steward said he was a legend at the Kronk gym, that he would show up and yell "LET THE BEATINGS BEGIN" and beat the shit out of everyone, and that's when they had Hearns, Mccllelan, ect.