Andre Ward: If I Beat Sergey Kovalev, Then What? - Boxing News
Good article.
Printable View
I feel bad for Ward, he's too good for his own good and return networks, potential opponents and even fans are leaving him out in the cold. In no other sport would a top 3 athlete be treated with such disrespect.
Floyd got on PPV and the mainstream by fighting Gatti, now Ward needs his "Gatti" - which could be Froch or JCC Jr. Unfortunately those guys seem to have no interest in fighting him, which is just sad because boxing SHOULD be about being the best and ruling your division. Andre is the man to beat to be the man, but these guys want no part of him. That's why boxing is fucked.
I feel for ward too
what would froch make from a fight with ward and what would he make from a fight with chavez jnr?
whats the point in fighting ward?
IMO its ward that needs to adapt and not the fans and the media that need to demand
Ward would more than likely beat froch again but there are lots more match ups with a lot more potential for excitement id rather watch first
i wish that this whole situation with ward could get figured out. i like ward a lot and want to see him fight but fights just arent being made with him.
Dont pitty Ward!
He got in to professinal boxing to make a living from fighting. He knows that what he earns is directly linked to people wanting to watch him. If hes going o use such ugly boring tactics and never move from America to fight then hes not entertaining anyone or even trying to broaden his fan base world wide.
Fighters used to travel the world. This is Wards only option now.
Hes too content to play it safe, holding, elbowing, head butting and all at home.
Would you pay to watch a pay per voew with Ward v anyone? People did with Mike Tyson and Naseem Hamed.
Ward needs to bite the bullet and do what hes paid to and actually fucking entertain instead of send people to sleep!
You mY say in no other sport would a top 3 athlete be disrespected but also, it would be very hard in any other sport for the athlete to disrespect the fans who pay money to see the athlete play their sport at their best ability. Ward cheats to fuck. People pay to see a fight in pro boxing.
Maybe he should get back in the amateurs.
I don't feel bad for him at all but he does suffer from the same disease Rigo does. He's got to technically sound sickness. Odd that Floyd has been making 40 million a fight for more then 5 years suffering from the same illness.
Ward can blame himself for much of his downfall by waiting for everyone to knock on his door. What I don't get is why he has not moved up? Whats he waiting for or rather who. He could break the door down himself by whipping Stevenson or Kovalev. Those could be his Gatti's. Instead he sits and whines and goes on strike.
Floyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Those saying Ward needs to change disgust me. Sport is about being the best not about doing it the way others want. Pathetic to say, sure you can beat everyone but I don't like the way you do it so change for me. Absolutely pathetic. Those same disgusting people are right though, fans won't become more nuanced. Ward needs to come to terms with his lack of appeal.
Yes yoir right "sport" is about being the best which is what amateur boxing is, a sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Professional boxing on the other hand is a business based on entertaining people.
Read the article, he goes into detail why moving up isn't a good option for him. Stevenson is on another network and Kovalev isn't a PPV or even a big money fight for him, and then if he beats Kovalev he's left with nothing else up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
If one of the top P4P boxers (Ward) who is the best in a very exciting division (168lbs) thinks he can't get a PPV fight against the most exciting and devastating KO artist to come along in years (Kovalev)... Then he's lying to himself probably because he's scared. They can make that into a huge fight without much effort. Everyone wants to see Ward get ripped to shreads and Kovalev would tear thru him in few rounds.
Ward would embarrass Kovalev. And that isn't a PPV fight. Kovalev doesn't have the name value.
Dont agree. I enjoy watching but I also love the technical aspects of the sport and the "sweet science" that gets lost in all the highlight reel no hoper madness. If people don't see a knockout by round six they actually feel violated. Ward needs an attitude adjustment not a style change. The ignorant boxing masses are more to blame for Wards present state then Wards style.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossFloyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
I'm not blaming him alone for the status quo. I'm blaming the status quo also. This whole network crap and warring promoters is disgusting. Its not even about boxing anymore. Its becoming like one of those sad reality tv shows like Mountain men or Duck Dynasty. And based on the rise of that dumb ass programming, the viewing public is not getting any smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerRead the article, he goes into detail why moving up isn't a good option for him. Stevenson is on another network and Kovalev isn't a PPV or even a big money fight for him, and then if he beats Kovalev he's left with nothing else up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Imagine telling Nicolino Locche to go out there and take it to him;D
Andre Ward has a judge jab style that's no good for anyone!
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitDont agree. I enjoy watching but I also love the technical aspects of the sport and the "sweet science" that gets lost in all the highlight reel no hoper madness. If people don't see a knockout by round six they actually feel violated. Ward needs an attitude adjustment not a style change. The ignorant boxing masses are more to blame for Wards present state then Wards style.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossFloyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
for once I do actually agree with ross
wards style is punch on the way in and once he is in he holds/spoils
he rarely punches and then stays in a position to land a few more or throw another combination or whatever
hes like the best in the world at being first to the punch and doesn't need anything else
and I don't think wards style can be compared to mayweathers
Its Wards constant negative tactics that have turned people off. He used to think he was Roy Jones till he got dropped and then he turned in to a cross between Hopkins and Ruiz with all the holding.
He also limits his appeal by only fighting in America.
For as poor as some think Bika is, watch the last 2 rounds of that fight;D bika just takes it to Ward and tries not to let him cling on like a limpet and it works. He has Ward hurt and running!
might sound daft but his approach to his personality or boxing persona isn't very interesting either
for a start son of god makes him sound stoopid
should call himself warrior ward or ass kicking andre or something
I like Ward personally and I appreciate the problems he seems to be having with his promoter.
I also understand he wants the big fights, the big paydays, and that the respect he craves is tied to them, but he is going to have to put that aside and just start fighting.
He needs to start taking every fight he can. Ward doesn't have an especially fan friendly style, doesn't talk a lot of trash, doesn't disrespect women or visit night clubs, in other words he is a quiet, Christian family man who is a boxer. If he started fighting 3 times a year he would be getting the attention he wants and, eventually, those big fights, in my opinion.
Nah you guys are taking things to extremes.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitDont agree. I enjoy watching but I also love the technical aspects of the sport and the "sweet science" that gets lost in all the highlight reel no hoper madness. If people don't see a knockout by round six they actually feel violated. Ward needs an attitude adjustment not a style change. The ignorant boxing masses are more to blame for Wards present state then Wards style.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossFloyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
for once I do actually agree with ross
wards style is punch on the way in and once he is in he holds/spoils
he rarely punches and then stays in a position to land a few more or throw another combination or whatever
hes like the best in the world at being first to the punch and doesn't need anything else
and I don't think wards style can be compared to mayweathers
The idea after all is to hit and not get hit
Not stand there in the pocket when that's not your style so Johnny fan base can get his ko fix
Ward is a safety first fighter and his style is a lot like Floyds especially in versatility. Rigo also shares that quality. Its like watching a surgeon. They almost make the opponent look silly and in so doing ruin the fight for that portion of the viewing public better suited to wearing togas. Him and Floyd share all kinds of qualities and subtle nuance. Wards also most likely the best switch hitter in boxing and can even do it on the fly and that's why there were so many bumps in the Kessler fight. Kessler was like a deer in the headlights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
You missed my point. Ward is supposed to be one of the best fighters in the game. Pitting him against a pure KO artist SHOULD be enough to attract an audience. Its Ward that is lacking the star power to make this a PPV fight. Ward is the one who spoils the PPV....
Make a highlight reel of Kovalev's wake of destruction and people will want to watch him fight anyone.
If you make a highlight reel of Ward grabbing and hugging guys and you may be able to play it in a bathhouse.
Ward is dirty and boring. Period.
Bullshit!Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitNah you guys are taking things to extremes.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitDont agree. I enjoy watching but I also love the technical aspects of the sport and the "sweet science" that gets lost in all the highlight reel no hoper madness. If people don't see a knockout by round six they actually feel violated. Ward needs an attitude adjustment not a style change. The ignorant boxing masses are more to blame for Wards present state then Wards style.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossFloyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
for once I do actually agree with ross
wards style is punch on the way in and once he is in he holds/spoils
he rarely punches and then stays in a position to land a few more or throw another combination or whatever
hes like the best in the world at being first to the punch and doesn't need anything else
and I don't think wards style can be compared to mayweathers
The idea after all is to hit and not get hit
Not stand there in the pocket when that's not your style so Johnny fan base can get his ko fix
Ward is a safety first fighter and his style is a lot like Floyds especially in versatility. Rigo also shares that quality. Its like watching a surgeon. They almost make the opponent look silly and in so doing ruin the fight for that portion of the viewing public better suited to wearing togas. Him and Floyd share all kinds of qualities and subtle nuance. Wards also most likely the best switch hitter in boxing and can even do it on the fly and that's why there were so many bumps in the Kessler fight. Kessler was like a deer in the headlights.
If Ward was made to fight by the rules he would look like he did against Bika in the last two rounds.
Which is why Kovalev would destroy him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThe idea after all is to hit and not get hitQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitDont agree. I enjoy watching but I also love the technical aspects of the sport and the "sweet science" that gets lost in all the highlight reel no hoper madness. If people don't see a knockout by round six they actually feel violated. Ward needs an attitude adjustment not a style change. The ignorant boxing masses are more to blame for Wards present state then Wards style.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossFloyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
for once I do actually agree with ross
wards style is punch on the way in and once he is in he holds/spoils
he rarely punches and then stays in a position to land a few more or throw another combination or whatever
hes like the best in the world at being first to the punch and doesn't need anything else
and I don't think wards style can be compared to mayweathers
Not stand there in the pocket when that's not your style so Johnny fan base can get his ko fix
this is absolutely true
thing is tho, to attract the fans, get the fights and make the money, you have to have something that that is attractive to the fans
I personally think ward lacks that attraction in the ring and with his persona out of the ring, I think he deserves a break but I think there needs to be a rethink in his camp/promotion
he could be a superstar with a few tweaks
and like I say I think dropping the son of god name would be a massive start
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossBullshit!Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitNah you guys are taking things to extremes.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitDont agree. I enjoy watching but I also love the technical aspects of the sport and the "sweet science" that gets lost in all the highlight reel no hoper madness. If people don't see a knockout by round six they actually feel violated. Ward needs an attitude adjustment not a style change. The ignorant boxing masses are more to blame for Wards present state then Wards style.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossFloyd throws nice clean crisp punches standing in punching distance. He doesn't rely on throwing an overhand right aimed at going over the opponents shoulder just to lurch in and hold. Floyd is nice to watch. Ward isn't. Ward his hideous.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
for once I do actually agree with ross
wards style is punch on the way in and once he is in he holds/spoils
he rarely punches and then stays in a position to land a few more or throw another combination or whatever
hes like the best in the world at being first to the punch and doesn't need anything else
and I don't think wards style can be compared to mayweathers
The idea after all is to hit and not get hit
Not stand there in the pocket when that's not your style so Johnny fan base can get his ko fix
Ward is a safety first fighter and his style is a lot like Floyds especially in versatility. Rigo also shares that quality. Its like watching a surgeon. They almost make the opponent look silly and in so doing ruin the fight for that portion of the viewing public better suited to wearing togas. Him and Floyd share all kinds of qualities and subtle nuance. Wards also most likely the best switch hitter in boxing and can even do it on the fly and that's why there were so many bumps in the Kessler fight. Kessler was like a deer in the headlights.
If Ward was made to fight by the rules he would look like he did against Bika in the last two rounds.
You don't like him. Fair enough. I don't either but I know a brilliant technician when I see one.
But that's like asking Pep to fight like Saddler or Locche to fight like Jofre. Its not the boxers fault that some fight fans don't understand boxing and also make up the majority of the ppv buying public.Why should he dummy down his abilities to suit them? The two powder puncher defensive wizards I mentioned filled the house every time they fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
this is absolutely true
thing is tho, to attract the fans, get the fights and make the money, you have to have something that that is attractive to the fans
I personally think ward lacks that attraction in the ring and with his persona out of the ring, I think he deserves a break but I think there needs to be a rethink in his camp/promotion
he could be a superstar with a few tweaks
and like I say I think dropping the son of god name would be a massive start
Ward is my hometown fighter (Oakland). There is no question he is a great technician. BUT...it comes down to what boxing/sports are ultimately about......it's a business. I'm not saying that is a good thing, but it's a reality. Andre doesn't possess a style of fighting that sells tickets...but unfortunately for him...he also does not possess a personality (Floyd) to sell tickets either. And i can tell you from watching his career up close...the guy just doesn't want to promote himself outside of the bay area. He really makes no effort. Maybe he is ok with that. if he isn't...he has to shake things up for himself.
The issue I take with the theory of the gatti like opponent for ward is why is it onus on the opponent to make ward exciting/entertaining? I'll also argue that Ward had already had an opportunity of this when he ko'd the weight drained and technically flawed dawson. Dawson was in enough of the public's eye and ward looked good enough dropping dawson that he could have fought another name after that and turned it up maximizing his star status.
I have to agree with Ross on this one. The unpalatable style of Ward as well as the fact that he's a primadonna (wants to fight in oakland, only in his weight, wont fight his friend, Direll) stifles any star power he could had. For those making the mayweather comparisons. Floyd offering to fight maidana the way he did, was was stupid but it made the fight more interesting for the casual fans, as does him acting like an a$$ outside the ring... but Floyds ability to stand in front of an opponents and use head movement and shoulder rolls to frustrate them while they flail away still has one important thing over both Rigo and ward. It doesn't stop the action. The hug and slug style that ward uses where he lands a lead shot, ties you up and then hits you on the break not only stifles his own offense with the clinch, but it stifles the opponents too which creates lulls in the action. As does rigo's out running opponents by a country mile for the majority of a round and then sticking and landing sharp punches without following up (like a miniature direll). There are no punches being thrown, no offensive showcase and no defensive showcase when fighters are clinched and smothered or so far away from each other that they're out of range. Being aggressively offensive will win you fans and PPV dates but probably shorten your career. Being aggressively defensive tends to put you in the chris byrd or winky wright category. You'll beat some people by playing the spoiler, and extend your career, but noone wants to watch you. However he's going to complain about lack of opponents and money, step up or step out.
Most guys aren't comfortable playing a "character" like Floyd, Haye, ect do. And most guys can't pull it off without look transparent, even if they wanted to.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
The fact is, being in the top 3 best should be enough. The fact that it isn't spells a lot of trouble for boxing. It means that boxing is no longer about sport, it's about spectacle, and boxing IS NOT going to out-spectacle the UFC in the long run. Boxing is not going to compete in the "blood" game with guys getting kicked and elbowed in the head.
The goal of boxing is to hit and not get hit. It's not Andre Ward's responsibility to make sure he gets punched and knocked down a bunch of times so his fights are exciting and compelling. That responsibility lies with his opponent.
To ask a guy to fight stupidly just for the sake of entertainment is ridiculous. Don't hate on Ward, hate on his 168lb peers who haven't been good enough to make a compelling fight with him.
The problem lies in Ward's attitude. "If I beat Kovalev, then what?" In beating Kovalev, Ward would have moved up in weight and taken on a guy who is thrashing everyone he fights. Kovalev is arguably the most violent and imposing fighter in Ward's weight range. By beating him Ward would be showing that he's interested in furthering his career by challenging himself and striving to take on the best possible opposition. People may even respect him if he shows more talent than just hugging.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Undisputed
Also, Kovalev could in theory be Ward's Gatti. He's a very rough around the edges KO fighter that should be easily beat by a superior boxer like Ward.
Ward should take another champion hugger as an example. Wlad has no opposition. He's better than every other heavyweight, and has been for years. But he keeps fighting and he keeps destroying. He's beat so many shitty guys so convincingly for so many years that some people now believe he's possibly an ATG. Even tho most people hate Wlad's style just like they hate Ward's he's somehow got respect and history will be kind to him because his record is going to look like the record of a great fighter...and at least he bothered to fight and not just sit around saying things like "Yeah I could fight that guy...but then what?"
With all due respect I don't view it the way you do. I watch boxing for its built in diversity and the individualism it represents pugilisticly. I could give two shits about a bag of Doritos advertised on a banner or another slippery stupid decal on the ring apron. I watch it for what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Its pretty freakin sad that in this enlightened day and age, pure boxers get kicked to the curb because they wont leave their tool box in the dressing room before they enter the ring. Boxing is actually devolving and its a group effort based on instant gratification from fans that don't know what a feint is to broadcasters who feed that weakness. Technically gifted pugilists expected to abandon the very skills that got them there because the fight has to be done before the pizza arrives. Its an enabler sandwich.
I am not disagreeing with you. The "casual" sports fan would rather see two guys pummel each other in a brawl. I am not a fan of it...but that is unfortunately the reality. Of course Andre can't transform himself into a Floyd like personality. But what he CAN do is make a better effort to promote himself nationally/internationally. You can't just sit around Oakland and expect people to come knocking on your door...regardless of how skilled he may be. At the end of the day....maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he is content being a god loving nice guy with a non crowd pleasing style. But if he isn't happy with his current situation...he is the only one that can try to change it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerMost guys aren't comfortable playing a "character" like Floyd, Haye, ect do. And most guys can't pull it off without look transparent, even if they wanted to.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
The fact is, being in the top 3 best should be enough. The fact that it isn't spells a lot of trouble for boxing. It means that boxing is no longer about sport, it's about spectacle, and boxing IS NOT going to out-spectacle the UFC in the long run. Boxing is not going to compete in the "blood" game with guys getting kicked and elbowed in the head.
I just don't know what he can do himself personally. It takes a lot of money and backing to get a guy over. HBO invested HEAVILY in Floyd with all the 24/7 specials and promotion for the mega fights. In turn, Floyd expanded on that with appearances everywhere that made him a household name.
Floyd was in the exact same boat as Ward is now for years. He was under a promoter (Arum) who had no faith in his selling potential and was too busy devoting all his energy into DLH. Floyd was ducked because he was a super talent with no name value, so he couldn't get big fights because the big names wanted to fight other big names and didn't want to take a huge risk fighting Floyd for little reward.
It sucks. Andre is taking the right step now by trying to get away from Goossen, because they have proved to be absolutely USELESS in building Ward up.
Fuck me, I bet Mayorga could generate more viewers for a match with Golovkin than Ward could generate against Kovalev.
You have to sell yourself. As a pro boxer you are selling yourself to the fans. Tyson Fury is doing it now. You have to promote yourself. On top of being a good salesman you have to have a good product.
Now Mayorga may not have won all his fights but he certainly entertained in the build up and the fight itself, you always get value for money no matter who hes fighting.
Ward on the other hand cant sell fuck all and if he did, people would ask for their money back because he promised them a sublime display of fighting skill when all they ended up getting was a load of holding, mauling, elbowing and head butting.
Man. Maybe I'm off the cliff but I actually like Ward and just wished he would get his arse in the ring??? I think he has that gnarly grind and gritty style that you love in spots, but want to spray paint the screen black in others. I understand frustration and injury for him but you can't just go out and pop off about "if I were to fight Kovalev and win...then what" and expect someone to keep a straight face. Just start with fighting...someone. He took a bad rap on last fight as he embarrassed a decent challenger and had the tables turned. It was Rodriquez going dirty and ugly. He's letting it all pass him by as 175 is in a mix with Stevenson blowing out a top mutual victim, even Hopkins staying more active and unifying and at 168 Froch has banked two of his most impressive victories destroying Bute and Groves 2. Ward is a fookin craft master but if he wants to fall back on "then what" he can blame himself. That kinda tells me Kovalev has already sent him a welcome to the neighborhood basket..
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter that he has no fights because no one wants to watch him anyways.
I hate his style, his boring fights and his attitude.
So yeah I don't give a shit, hope he retires.
people are such idiots here. ward is the best in the world besides mayweather hands down. it doesnt matter if his style is boring or not. as boxing fans, we should want to see him fight. i understand casual fans not caring but those claiming to be boxing fans saying that they want ward to retire and not want to watch him fight because he is boring is ludicrous. seriously. wards talent doesnt come around very often. he is actually very underrated because people think that he is boring in and out of the ring. i question if some of you are actual fans of boxing.
i love watching ward fight just like i love watching mayweather fight. i love watching any tactician fight because i love boxing, not just brawling. i agree that ward should just fight kovalev if he has the opportunity, but i do understand that if ward beats him then kovalev will just be another bum. it would probably be better for him to take a few more fights at 168 then go up and wait until kovalev, stevenson, or bhop take each other out so that ward can fight the undisputed best LHW.