WHAT IF Tyson Fought Holyfield in 1991? Who wins ?
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WHAT IF Tyson Fought Holyfield in 1991? Who wins ?
Before the imprisonment i think he had enough to win but I feel the fight would be so great that they would have 2 other fights which Evander would win. Holyfiels was the nemesis of Tyson, similar to what he did with Bowe, just finished off their careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV297
Evander didn't finish off Bowe.... Golota and Lennox Lewis via the media finished off Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBefore the imprisonment i think he had enough to win but I feel the fight would be so great that they would have 2 other fights which Evander would win. Holyfiels was the nemesis of Tyson, similar to what he did with Bowe, just finished off their careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV297
Bowe was finished by the time he fought Golota.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaEvander didn't finish off Bowe.... Golota and Lennox Lewis via the media finished off Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBefore the imprisonment i think he had enough to win but I feel the fight would be so great that they would have 2 other fights which Evander would win. Holyfiels was the nemesis of Tyson, similar to what he did with Bowe, just finished off their careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV297
I can see Tyson with Jacobs still with him defeating Holyfield, but even Jacobs had a hard time keeping Tyson on track. By '91 the trains was well off the rails
Evander may have had to survive a knockdown if they fought more towards Tyson's prime but he always had the perfect style to match Tyson. He met pressure with pressure, he never gave Tyson a chance to gather himself, he stayed busy with his hands, and he made openings vs Tyson and landed clean.
Tyson-Bowe would have been nice around that time or later Tyson-Briggs would have been nice, or Tyson-Rahman, or Tyson-Tua, or Tyson-Mercer, or Tyson-Moorer, or Tyson-Morrison....everyone who is anyone will admit they wanted to see Tyson fight more often and fight more of the stars/contenders after his stint in the hoosegow
Tyson was past his prime picking up cheques..for such a small guy tyson really was one of the greatest of all time.
Didn't Tyson go back on tear though after his loss to Douglas?? That jail sentence ate mike up. Don king ate mike and JC Chavez Sr up at the same time. That mfer is still robbing fighters too
Kind of: Henry Tillman, Alex Stewart, Razor Ruddock X 2Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV297
After which he went to jail and then fought a bunch of bums: Peter McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr., Frank Bruno (well WELL past his best granted he had just won a title), Bruce Seldon....I mean that's the opposite of Murderer's Row if I've ever seen one their records looked great, they had good physiques and were impressive LOOKING, but good fighters they were not, and then Holyfield X 2 where Tyson's abilities were put to their first test post prison and obviously he was found out.
Bowe finished off Bowe, by being a lazy fat ass who would rather down a burger than run on a treadmill, Foreman did the same thing during the second half of his career but he was an entirely different breed than BoweQuote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaEvander didn't finish off Bowe.... Golota and Lennox Lewis via the media finished off Bowe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBefore the imprisonment i think he had enough to win but I feel the fight would be so great that they would have 2 other fights which Evander would win. Holyfiels was the nemesis of Tyson, similar to what he did with Bowe, just finished off their careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV297
Bowe joined the US Marines and then quit a week later.
The Holy Spirit!Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV297
I never thought of it this way, but I believe you are correct. Holyfield took what each man had left to give at the elite level.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBefore the imprisonment i think he had enough to win but I feel the fight would be so great that they would have 2 other fights which Evander would win. Holyfiels was the nemesis of Tyson, similar to what he did with Bowe, just finished off their careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyV297
He was a motherfucker to fight, wasn't he?
Tyson was already standing straight up looking for one punch with muchless head movement than the 80s Tyson. Holyfield was in his damnedest best prime in '91. Evander wins this one. A long slow beat down. UD or maybe late stoppage.
by all means, Holyfield would do far better than Tillis
Holyfeild would take it at anytime i fell just a bad match up for Tyson really if you think about it. He had a chin, could recover fast, had stamina for days, could fight inside well and box, more heart then anyone and his head was fucking made of steel. Holyfeild is bad news for most to ever walk into the ring.
Tyson would have decapitated him at 205lb which was what Evander weighed at his peak. Tyson's body shots would split Evander and he would have had broken ribs. Remember what Tyson did to Ruddock, he broke his jaw too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Holyfield's style made it difficult for Tyson to work on the inside. Head to a side, arms in a cross blocking formation protecting the body, ready to roll and counter if Tyson went upstairs...and Evander was constantly moving forward never allowing Tyson to settle and build a rhythm or work his way inside to land cleanly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Also at 205...who's to say Tyson's chin would have been as good at a lower weight? We saw Chris Byrd a relatively iron jawed heavyweight go down to 175 and get trashed by a guy who wasn't that big of a puncher. We've seen RJJ who went down in weight get a bit weaker in the chin.
Holyfield was just the bigger, badder, bully....ALWAYS. And regardless of time he'd always get Tyson for his lunch money.
I think the most interesting matches for Holyfield would have been Ken Norton and Joe Frazier and the best for Tyson would have been Riddick Bowe and Sonny Liston
Why Bowe? Due to his lack of dedication n presumed fright of Tyson?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHolyfield's style made it difficult for Tyson to work on the inside. Head to a side, arms in a cross blocking formation protecting the body, ready to roll and counter if Tyson went upstairs...and Evander was constantly moving forward never allowing Tyson to settle and build a rhythm or work his way inside to land cleanly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Also at 205...who's to say Tyson's chin would have been as good at a lower weight? We saw Chris Byrd a relatively iron jawed heavyweight go down to 175 and get trashed by a guy who wasn't that big of a puncher. We've seen RJJ who went down in weight get a bit weaker in the chin.
Holyfield was just the bigger, badder, bully....ALWAYS. And regardless of time he'd always get Tyson for his lunch money.
I think the most interesting matches for Holyfield would have been Ken Norton and Joe Frazier and the best for Tyson would have been Riddick Bowe and Sonny Liston
Tyson weighed 217lb peak, I meant Holyfield was 205lb, too small for Tyson. Tyson would have taken the body of Evander.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongHolyfield's style made it difficult for Tyson to work on the inside. Head to a side, arms in a cross blocking formation protecting the body, ready to roll and counter if Tyson went upstairs...and Evander was constantly moving forward never allowing Tyson to settle and build a rhythm or work his way inside to land cleanly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Also at 205...who's to say Tyson's chin would have been as good at a lower weight? We saw Chris Byrd a relatively iron jawed heavyweight go down to 175 and get trashed by a guy who wasn't that big of a puncher. We've seen RJJ who went down in weight get a bit weaker in the chin.
Holyfield was just the bigger, badder, bully....ALWAYS. And regardless of time he'd always get Tyson for his lunch money.
I think the most interesting matches for Holyfield would have been Ken Norton and Joe Frazier and the best for Tyson would have been Riddick Bowe and Sonny Liston
Remember how one dimensional, telegraphed and still able to land on Tyson Ruddock was also.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTyson would have decapitated him at 205lb which was what Evander weighed at his peak. Tyson's body shots would split Evander and he would have had broken ribs. Remember what Tyson did to Ruddock, he broke his jaw too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Foreman literally lifted Holyfield off his feet with shots to the body and he was still shooting off 20 punch hook combos later on. Same thing happened to Tyson after he hit him with the best body shots he had in the 5th of fight #1. 205, 212...Holyfield was just all wrong for Tyson and would have been the one doing the breaking.
Contradictory post are you saying Tyson would have worked Holyfields body and won or Holyfield takes the shots and beats him?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliRemember how one dimensional, telegraphed and still able to land on Tyson Ruddock was also.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTyson would have decapitated him at 205lb which was what Evander weighed at his peak. Tyson's body shots would split Evander and he would have had broken ribs. Remember what Tyson did to Ruddock, he broke his jaw too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Foreman literally lifted Holyfield off his feet with shots to the body and he was still shooting off 20 punch hook combos later on. Same thing happened to Tyson after he hit him with the best body shots he had in the 5th of fight #1. 205, 212...Holyfield was just all wrong for Tyson and would have been the one doing the breaking.
True Tyson was very static against Ruddock but he still was nearer his prime than when he went in jail.
Maybe I'm guilty of Navajo code talking again ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterContradictory post are you saying Tyson would have worked Holyfields body and won or Holyfield takes the shots and beats him?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliRemember how one dimensional, telegraphed and still able to land on Tyson Ruddock was also.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTyson would have decapitated him at 205lb which was what Evander weighed at his peak. Tyson's body shots would split Evander and he would have had broken ribs. Remember what Tyson did to Ruddock, he broke his jaw too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Foreman literally lifted Holyfield off his feet with shots to the body and he was still shooting off 20 punch hook combos later on. Same thing happened to Tyson after he hit him with the best body shots he had in the 5th of fight #1. 205, 212...Holyfield was just all wrong for Tyson and would have been the one doing the breaking.
True Tyson was very static against Ruddock but he still was nearer his prime than when he went in jail.
Saying that the biggest spots I can remember Holyfield sponging big body shots that he didn't crumble and could bounce back, and against Tyson he already had. For me its a non hypothetical really. We're talking 5 years not era vs era or decades. Holyfield aged and took damage as much as Tyson did in that time. It was Holyfield being literally compared to a walking corpse in 96'.
Holyfield takes it for me. Tyson at that time with bum trainers like Aaron Snowell, stood up straight, didn't use his jab, hardly went to the body, became a 1 dimensional head hunter and hardly worked out in the gym. A much younger and much less worn down Holyfield stops Tyson even earlier than the '96 fight. This is prime Holyfield we're talking about.
Now if Tyson had Rooney in his corner along with the rest of the D'amato camp that would be a different story, but this version of Tyson was on a downward spiral in the ring and outside of it. I give Tyson no shot of beating Holyfield, considering what we know of Holyfield's chin and will.
Holy beats any version of Tyson. He has the style advantage and he had a "thing" for Tyson. Evander would always be motivated n up his game for Tyson. He was a warrior, n lived the challenge n style of going toe to toe with a "Goliath". He would always have issues with Byrd, Ali, Jimmy Young...etc. he didn't like to chase guys n waste punches. Tyson, Tua, Frazier, Norton, Shavers...etc. we're made for him.
Holyfield beats him every time no matter the year.
You all know nothing. Tyson 1986 version destroys any version Holyfield.
Tyson in 1991 was on the slide but he took the bombs from Ruddock so he certainly could take the punches of Evander who was smaller.
Holyfield ha a chance to fight Tyson but chose Foreman instead.
Well for a number of reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
1. Bowe's lack of fights against other top tier heavyweights especially power punchers
2. Bowe's willingness to give up his height and reach to fight on the inside which is what Tyson always needed vs the taller, lankier, fighters he faced.
3. Bowe and Tyson were from the same neighborhood
4. The excellent records both had at the time
I hate that "Well in his prime he was unbeatable" bullshit...Tyson was better in his prime, but let's not go crazy (as Tyson fans ALWAYS do)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yeah Evander chose Foreman...wow, what a pushover :rolleyes: ....might I add that Tyson wanted 0 part of Foreman in his comeback and for good reason, Foreman would have killed Tyson.
Utter nonsense Tyson chose Ruddock who was far more dangerous than Foreman. If Foreman wanted Tyson then he could also have not taken the Holyfield fight where he had even less chance of winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell for a number of reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
1. Bowe's lack of fights against other top tier heavyweights especially power punchers
2. Bowe's willingness to give up his height and reach to fight on the inside which is what Tyson always needed vs the taller, lankier, fighters he faced.
3. Bowe and Tyson were from the same neighborhood
4. The excellent records both had at the time
I hate that "Well in his prime he was unbeatable" bullshit...Tyson was better in his prime, but let's not go crazy (as Tyson fans ALWAYS do)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yeah Evander chose Foreman...wow, what a pushover :rolleyes: ....might I add that Tyson wanted 0 part of Foreman in his comeback and for good reason, Foreman would have killed Tyson.
Ruddock could hit harder than Holy with one shot, but he was no where near as mobile or versatile as evander was. Additionally, ruddock had no right hand n loaded up with "the smash" hybrid he threw. Evander would always be able to land the jab consistently, counter effectively, and overwhelm Tyson with four and five punch combinations. Holy was past his prime when they fought as well, but his mentality n style would always be too much for Mike Tyson.
Foreman KO'd Cooney for a shot at Tyson....Tyson didn't want the fightQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterUtter nonsense Tyson chose Ruddock who was far more dangerous than Foreman. If Foreman wanted Tyson then he could also have not taken the Holyfield fight where he had even less chance of winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell for a number of reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
1. Bowe's lack of fights against other top tier heavyweights especially power punchers
2. Bowe's willingness to give up his height and reach to fight on the inside which is what Tyson always needed vs the taller, lankier, fighters he faced.
3. Bowe and Tyson were from the same neighborhood
4. The excellent records both had at the time
I hate that "Well in his prime he was unbeatable" bullshit...Tyson was better in his prime, but let's not go crazy (as Tyson fans ALWAYS do)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yeah Evander chose Foreman...wow, what a pushover :rolleyes: ....might I add that Tyson wanted 0 part of Foreman in his comeback and for good reason, Foreman would have killed Tyson.
I feel like Tyson was made for Foreman, even more so than Evander. George would've looked spectacular destroying Mike. He would've weathered the early storm n manhandled Mike and hit him like no one else could, including Lennox. George could be outboxed, but short, squat, aggressive fighters were his favorite.
Tyson fought Ruddock after he and King were sued for pulling out of a earlier contracted fight with Ruddock in Canada and instead fought "a less dangerous"...Buster Douglas :-X Douglas actually knew how to put his punches together too.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterUtter nonsense Tyson chose Ruddock who was far more dangerous than Foreman. If Foreman wanted Tyson then he could also have not taken the Holyfield fight where he had even less chance of winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell for a number of reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
1. Bowe's lack of fights against other top tier heavyweights especially power punchers
2. Bowe's willingness to give up his height and reach to fight on the inside which is what Tyson always needed vs the taller, lankier, fighters he faced.
3. Bowe and Tyson were from the same neighborhood
4. The excellent records both had at the time
I hate that "Well in his prime he was unbeatable" bullshit...Tyson was better in his prime, but let's not go crazy (as Tyson fans ALWAYS do)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yeah Evander chose Foreman...wow, what a pushover :rolleyes: ....might I add that Tyson wanted 0 part of Foreman in his comeback and for good reason, Foreman would have killed Tyson.
Holyfield was the champion and after a Tyson fight fell through because he was flattened by Douglas Holyfield was well within right to make a inaugural defense with massively popular cash cow Foreman. Tyson was up next and was set but he couldn't keep his dick in his pants and hands off the women..oh and had a 'hurt rib'. Enter Francisco Damiani then Bert Cooper.
Foreman and Tyson would have been a juggernaut event, HUGE! George basically called him out fight by fight in comeback.
Personally, I think Tyson did right not fighting George. His (TYson's) potential loss would prove nothing to me.
All this shit about Foreman being to big and strong for Tyson;D
Look at their respective fights with Alex Stewart. Tyson wiped him out inside a round, using him as a comeback opponent. Formean got beat up and a gift decision and coincidentally had a harder time with Stewart than he did with Holyfield.
it was probably barry mcguigan that got me into boxing
but the Tyson pomp was one of the most memorable and enjoyable times for me in the sport
so im probably a fantasist but Tyson in his prime would have KOed Hollyfield in the first half of the fight
its such a pity the dream didn't last a bit longer
Mike Tyson is the ONE GUY whose losses never stuck to his legacy
"Oh he was past his prime"
"Sure he lost, but if Cus were still around!"
"He didn't train hard enough"
"He never should have left Rooney"
"Don King ruined him"
"In his prime he was unbeatable!"
Just one excuse after another and the complete denial that Mike Tyson had an easy era pre Holyfield and Lewis. The only differences in "Prime" Tyson and post prison Tyson are: a little more aggression, he stopped moving his head in round 3-4 as opposed to round 5-6, and he would throw 2-3 punches more often than just 1-2 big ones.....that is IT but that is also what happens to pressure fighters in general. Pressure fighters typically fade out of the sport by/around 27 years old just because the body can't handle the pace they set OR they have just worn themselves down by turning easier fights into battles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
cheer up
A way for you to understand the decline in Mike Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Mike Tyson became less effective and opponents had an easier time with him after leaving Rooney as his trainer because he wasnt being taught to do what made him great.
Wladamir Klitschko on the other hand is like Tyson in reverse. His opponents used to hurt him and knock him out, whereas when he got with Steward he was being taught to do what now makes him successfull. Tysons was the headmovement and combinations, Wlads is the leaning and holding;)
Would this Wlad beat the Wlad that Sanders defeated? Yes, different fighter. Would the Tyson that beat Holmes and Spinks have lost to the Tyson that waded in to punches against Douglas? No, different fighter, not doing what made him successful.
Tyson losing to Holyfield, Douglas, Lewis etc should be taken as seriously as you take Wlads losses to Sanders and Brewster. He is now a different fighter.
I'd go with Tyson for sure.