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I've heard a lot about Reid being robbed or at least having a close close fight with Calzaghe. He must have been a fine fighter at one time, but seems to have run hot and cold in fights.
Having seen little of him and none in his prime, how good was he?
Groves came close to beating Froch, much like Reid did to Calzaghe, so who was superior?
Reid was good and strong. Had a good chin and a nice over hand right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Was blatantly fouled against Lacy for the first time he'd ever been dropped.
Was beating Ottke and even dropped him in the 6th only for it to be ruled a slip. Pushed Calzaghe hard and at the time I thought Reid won but I did hate Calzaghe back then;D
A rematch between Joe and Robin would have been big business but Warren didnt want to risk it I assume? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GXGOvPQ_R2o
The Ottke fight
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WmXnj7rVQ18
Reid was OK but Groves is better. Reid was fortunate to win the title and could box and punch when required. He caught Joe when he was having his poor period which was due to injury and fought him close. Groves has better skills and would beat Reid with ease.
No, I think you are wrong big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Robin went to Italy and won the WBC title by knockout.
He pushed the one of greatest ever British boxers and super middle weights to a disputed decision. He was on a par with Calzaghe that night. Also, he should have got the decision over Ottke and he floored him. Robin carried good power and would catch Groves at some point.
Don't forget he's also and olympic medal winner. He was class with good skills.
Groves has failed twice now. To be honest I think his resilience is always going to hold him back. They are on about putting him in with Abraham but he's too fragile for any of them bar Ward. Unless he can get with a trainer who can teach him better defence then just putting his gloves up when it starts getting tough.
No you are wrong on this one.
True Robin went to Italy but he was fighting a very weak champion and he had to knock the champion out to get the title anyway.
Joe was injured and he had a patch where he fought poorly that was the only reason it was close.
Groves has lost twice to Froch. No shame there and Froch would do the same to Reid and beat him.
I don't know Reid all that well, but he was obviously a very tough and crafty guy to fight, I'm pretty sure he won the Ottke fight from what I remember, and ran Calzaghe very very close and gave him some real fits. To early to say how Groves stacks up either way, he's almost certainly the more talented athlete, but he may never really iron out his nerves and fight well over 12 rounds, which is pretty paramount to being a world class guy.
I understand he was a bit of a film star, Master must have some of his finest work.:vd:
Yes a lover AND a fighter he was lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I saw him at a Khan weigh in once, he was dressed well
He has not starred in any porn that I am aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkYes a lover AND a fighter he was lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
He apparently did some magazine shootsQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe has not starred in any porn that I am aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkYes a lover AND a fighter he was lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
You are not very aware then.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe has not starred in any porn that I am aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkYes a lover AND a fighter he was lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Dont know about films but he has openly stated in interviews and has been called all sorts of inuendo since being in soft porn mags.
Groves wouldnt beat Reid.
When Reid fought Calzaghe he was fighting the best super middle in the world and could have been awarded the win.
When Groves lost to Froch twice, he lost to at the best, the second best super middle in the world.
Groves doenst get any further.
Reid was a genuine world champ.
Second best to Andre Ward who could probably beat Joe Calzaghe please stop making this stuff up. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rossYou are not very aware then.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe has not starred in any porn that I am aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkYes a lover AND a fighter he was lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Dont know about films but he has openly stated in interviews and has been called all sorts of inuendo since being in soft porn mags.
Groves wouldnt beat Reid.
When Reid fought Calzaghe he was fighting the best super middle in the world and could have been awarded the win.
When Groves lost to Froch twice, he lost to at the best, the second best super middle in the world.
Groves doenst get any further.
Reid was a genuine world champ.
Probably?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSecond best to Andre Ward who could probably beat Joe Calzaghe please stop making this stuff up. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rossYou are not very aware then.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe has not starred in any porn that I am aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkYes a lover AND a fighter he was lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Dont know about films but he has openly stated in interviews and has been called all sorts of inuendo since being in soft porn mags.
Groves wouldnt beat Reid.
When Reid fought Calzaghe he was fighting the best super middle in the world and could have been awarded the win.
When Groves lost to Froch twice, he lost to at the best, the second best super middle in the world.
Groves doenst get any further.
Reid was a genuine world champ.
Second equal best with Bika at least. I think Bika takes Carls head off.
Bika has beaten 3 young u defeated world rated fighters on the trot. Froch uas been dropped and beaten up and given a massive scare by an untested fighter.
Groves isnt that good, Froch is done.
Love Bika but he really struggles at the highest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossProbably?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSecond best to Andre Ward who could probably beat Joe Calzaghe please stop making this stuff up. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rossYou are not very aware then.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe has not starred in any porn that I am aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkYes a lover AND a fighter he was lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Dont know about films but he has openly stated in interviews and has been called all sorts of inuendo since being in soft porn mags.
Groves wouldnt beat Reid.
When Reid fought Calzaghe he was fighting the best super middle in the world and could have been awarded the win.
When Groves lost to Froch twice, he lost to at the best, the second best super middle in the world.
Groves doenst get any further.
Reid was a genuine world champ.
Second equal best with Bika at least. I think Bika takes Carls head off.
Bika has beaten 3 young u defeated world rated fighters on the trot. Froch uas been dropped and beaten up and given a massive scare by an untested fighter.
Groves isnt that good, Froch is done.
He'd be hard pressed to beat Froch.
He had a fairly close fight with Pineada, who is shit.
He won hands down but still had a tough go with that guy.
I meant Periban. He's so shit I forgot his name lol
But does Groves beat Periban?
Doubt it.
Anyone who has stamina and can punch is going to beat Groves.
Reid was a world champ so to even ask if Robin Reid is better than Groves whos coming off hs second knockout loss just goes to show how well the promoters have done at blinding people to the facts.
George Groves is half shite, b'y
Groves beats Periban.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Based on what?Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkGroves beats Periban.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Getting knocked out twice by Froch?
This is unbelievable! Now Groves beats everyone ever who isnt Ward and Froch:vd:
Reid has a much better chin and is all round tougher.
But I believe speed and overall skill makes Groves better.
However in their peaks it could go either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossBased on what?Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkGroves beats Periban.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Getting knocked out twice by Froch?
This is unbelievable! Now Groves beats everyone ever who isnt Ward and Froch:vd:
Based on Peribans last fight. Has more to do with him than Groves.
Reid was lucky to be champ, Groves could have beaten Nardiello and I doubt Reid would have beaten Froch.
Froch KO'd Reid, not in his 'prime', but I think he stops any version.
Marciano KO'd Joe Louis, Holmes stopped Ali.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Lucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.
So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.
Groves career is not over and even if he does not acheive as much as Reid at the end of his career will be down to luck than talent. If you want me to disect Reids career for you then I will but really it is clear to see that he was not really a world class fighter just fortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.
So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.
He's not a world class fighter!?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterGroves career is not over and even if he does not acheive as much as Reid at the end of his career will be down to luck than talent. If you want me to disect Reids career for you then I will but really it is clear to see that he was not really a world class fighter just fortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.
So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.
He held the WBC world title that he won in the first attempt by knockout traveling to Italy!
He pushed Calzaghe and Ottke hard and could have been given the decisions in both fights, he was the only man to drop Ottke.
He also won a medal at the olympics.
All by luck?
No he's not world class...
As for Georges career not being over yet the title of the thread is was Reid a better boxer than Groves. We can only judge Groves up till now and so far, yes Reid is a better boxer and will always have winning the title at the first attempt.
The only way George could match Reid now is by beating Abraham in Germany then fighting Ward and pushing him so hard he should have been awarded the decision. Then who could his Ottke be?
Now you read that and think, there is no way he's doing all the above.
If Groves has success at world level then maybe , however Reid was world champ so how can we say Groves is better ? Reid won a bronze medal.
Notice the way you say won the title in Italy but not name the fighter? It was Nardiello who was shite look at his record - Groves would beat him.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossHe's not a world class fighter!?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterGroves career is not over and even if he does not acheive as much as Reid at the end of his career will be down to luck than talent. If you want me to disect Reids career for you then I will but really it is clear to see that he was not really a world class fighter just fortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.
So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.
He held the WBC world title that he won in the first attempt by knockout traveling to Italy!
He pushed Calzaghe and Ottke hard and could have been given the decisions in both fights, he was the only man to drop Ottke.
He also won a medal at the olympics.
All by luck?
No he's not world class...
As for Georges career not being over yet the title of the thread is was Reid a better boxer than Groves. We can only judge Groves up till now and so far, yes Reid is a better boxer and will always have winning the title at the first attempt.
The only way George could match Reid now is by beating Abraham in Germany then fighting Ward and pushing him so hard he should have been awarded the decision. Then who could his Ottke be?
Now you read that and think, there is no way he's doing all the above.
The reason why he had a good fight with Calzaghe was because Joe was struggling with injury. Joe fought Rick Thornberry and David Starie (the most boring fight ever) to points after the Reid fight ti illustrate how poor Joe was at that time.
Ottke was a joke champion.
Reid lost to Malinga and Branca at his best. They were jokers at the world class level.
Bika, Froch, Abraham and Kessler would probably beat Reid too
Id actually be very surprised if Groves didnt beat Abraham. I think he would stop him.
Bika would be a good fight and he would have a great chance to beat him but if I was Groves I wouldnt be taking that fight. Froch he could beat in a 3rd fight but doubt he gets the shot and by the time he earns it Froch should be retired. Thats all the champs and hed have a good chance in all of them.
Ward is clearly the best in the div and I think Groves style would make this close, I could see Groves taking the early rounds with Ward coming on strong at the end possibly stopping Groves or winning a close decision.
Apart from the above you have Degale and Callum Smith (who I think are the next best in the div after the champs, Ward and Groves). Smith isnt gonna get a look in as is far to dangerous. Degale is a pickem fight for me.
Then you have Chavez, Stieglitz, Rodriguez, Oosthuizen, Love, Dirrell and Periban abd I think Groves is head and shoulders above these guys bar maybe Chavez depending how he looks at the weight. Judging by the 1st Vera fight he aint up to much. I class a prime Reid in with this guys.
"Possibly" is close to the reality. Joe always found a way to win when things werent going his way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Cold hearted, and "never lose" attitude sums of Joe.
Eubank himself said that those "slaps" were hurtful.
To be far styles make fights ,Thulani Malinga took a prime Benn to a questionable decision , and then beat Benn so he was no joker.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNotice the way you say won the title in Italy but not name the fighter? It was Nardiello who was shite look at his record - Groves would beat him.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossHe's not a world class fighter!?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterGroves career is not over and even if he does not acheive as much as Reid at the end of his career will be down to luck than talent. If you want me to disect Reids career for you then I will but really it is clear to see that he was not really a world class fighter just fortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.
So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.
He held the WBC world title that he won in the first attempt by knockout traveling to Italy!
He pushed Calzaghe and Ottke hard and could have been given the decisions in both fights, he was the only man to drop Ottke.
He also won a medal at the olympics.
All by luck?
No he's not world class...
As for Georges career not being over yet the title of the thread is was Reid a better boxer than Groves. We can only judge Groves up till now and so far, yes Reid is a better boxer and will always have winning the title at the first attempt.
The only way George could match Reid now is by beating Abraham in Germany then fighting Ward and pushing him so hard he should have been awarded the decision. Then who could his Ottke be?
Now you read that and think, there is no way he's doing all the above.
The reason why he had a good fight with Calzaghe was because Joe was struggling with injury. Joe fought Rick Thornberry and David Starie (the most boring fight ever) to points after the Reid fight ti illustrate how poor Joe was at that time.
Ottke was a joke champion.
Reid lost to Malinga and Branca at his best. They were jokers at the world class level.
True about styles but remember the Malinga v Nardiella fight that was awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlTo be far styles make fights ,Thulani Malinga took a prime Benn to a questionable decision , and then beat Benn so he was no joker.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNotice the way you say won the title in Italy but not name the fighter? It was Nardiello who was shite look at his record - Groves would beat him.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossHe's not a world class fighter!?Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterGroves career is not over and even if he does not acheive as much as Reid at the end of his career will be down to luck than talent. If you want me to disect Reids career for you then I will but really it is clear to see that he was not really a world class fighter just fortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He should ave got the decisions over the only two super middle weight champs to retire undefeated. Thats not luck, thats class.
So far Groves hasnt acheived half as much.
He held the WBC world title that he won in the first attempt by knockout traveling to Italy!
He pushed Calzaghe and Ottke hard and could have been given the decisions in both fights, he was the only man to drop Ottke.
He also won a medal at the olympics.
All by luck?
No he's not world class...
As for Georges career not being over yet the title of the thread is was Reid a better boxer than Groves. We can only judge Groves up till now and so far, yes Reid is a better boxer and will always have winning the title at the first attempt.
The only way George could match Reid now is by beating Abraham in Germany then fighting Ward and pushing him so hard he should have been awarded the decision. Then who could his Ottke be?
Now you read that and think, there is no way he's doing all the above.
The reason why he had a good fight with Calzaghe was because Joe was struggling with injury. Joe fought Rick Thornberry and David Starie (the most boring fight ever) to points after the Reid fight ti illustrate how poor Joe was at that time.
Ottke was a joke champion.
Reid lost to Malinga and Branca at his best. They were jokers at the world class level.
???Quote:
Originally Posted by rossMarciano KO'd Joe Louis, Holmes stopped Ali.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Two guys who aren't Robin Reid got beat by fighters they would likely have beaten had they fought years earlier... What's your point?
I don't think Marciano or Holmes would get a W if they faced either of those guys in their primes, I do think Froch would beat Reid, maybe not as heavily...
Do you have anything productive to discuss with me, or are you going to grasp at more vague parallels to make another nonpoint.
You have no idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB???Quote:
Originally Posted by rossMarciano KO'd Joe Louis, Holmes stopped Ali.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Two guys who aren't Robin Reid got beat by fighters they would likely have beaten had they fought years earlier... What's your point?
I don't think Marciano or Holmes would get a W if they faced either of those guys in their primes, I do think Froch would beat Reid, maybe not as heavily...
Do you have anything productive to discuss with me, or are you going to grasp at more vague parallels to make another nonpoint.
You point out that Froch in his prime beat Reid who was well outside of his is the same as as those other foghters getting beaten.
People discount Calzaghes win over Eubank just the same.
Master said he doubted Reid would beat Froch, I pointed out that he had lost to Froch, but not during Reid's prime. I added my opinion that I thought Froch would likely beat him in his prime too.
That's it. Do you think I was trying to infer something more than that?
You brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
The point is prime Froch beats prime Reid. Styles do make fights and Groves is more fluid and faster than Reid so I think George would beat him.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossYou brought up the result of the fight as if it was relevant but as I pointed out, beating a 37 year old Reid is as relevant as Calzaghes win over Eubank, Marcianos over Louis and Holmes over Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB