Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
I was going to make a similar post. But wasn't the Ledderman card only two points? I don't think it was unfair. I was never a big Dawson fan but I did follow him as he is from my home state.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
I think he's done. He couldn't be motivated or inspired to come in at weight in initial comeback fight...202 lbs! at opening bell ffs and he looked gun shy and was being caught clean lastnight, by the same punches. Combinations were not there, the jab was inconsistent but available and was just going through the motions assuming all he had to do was hear the final bell to win. Drained and he has always coasted. He looks like a spark out waiting in the wings honestly.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?
Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Totally. He also is delusional. Time for career change.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
I had this fight close and I wasn't upset with the score. If Dawson is struggling with Karpecny, it has to be assumed that he is on his way out. I am and was a fan of Bad Chad's. He's a good, solid boxer. I hope he has one more good performance in him. How about Fonfara? I understand Dawson lost but he's still well known.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?
Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.
I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.
Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?
Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.
I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.
Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.
I think BOTH Pascal and Bute looked horrible in their fight. Both looked like they were done. Bute I understand because Froch chewed him up and savagely beat him, but Pascal just looks unsure of himself. Pavilik just never looked the same to me after the Hop fight. He was very unsure of himself and was tentative vs. Sergio Martinez. I noticed a decline, but maybe I just overanalyzed it.
Taylor had the Winky fight right after, which was a decent performance. I just remember him at times looking unsure and being maneuvered to the ropes easily by Winky. I remember him regressing after Hopkins, to the point where Manny Steward was openly disgusted with him during the Cory Spinks "fight". I agree that Pavilik finished him off, but it seemed that the late rounds always brought the demons of the Hop fight out for him. He took a pretty good beating the last half of their first fight and was definitely exhausted. It looked like he never wanted to go through that again and I think that experience always weighed heavily on his mind after.
If I remember correctly, Winky was very active and ranked #3 P4P when they fought. I don't remember seeing Winky in the ring for years after that loss, and even then he came back to be dominated by Paul Williams and then Peter Quillin. He just didn't have that mental edge in either of those fights, and I can't help but think that Hop is the reason.
Tito was at the zenith of his career. He was coming off an impressive run of beating Sweet Pea (past his best but still the first guy to convincingly beat him), decision over Oscar (i thought Oscar won, but the judges didn't), a dominant decision of David Reid (knocking Reid down multiple times and ruining him), destroying Thiam (I watched it live in Miami), the destruction of Vargas (undefeated Olympian in a classic) and the annihilation of William Joppy (regarded as the solid #2 to Hop and the biggest threat to both Hop and Tito). Hop weighed less than Tito at the weigh in, and put on less weight after. Size had nothing to do with that fight, as Hop was just the better fighter and took his heart, took him to school and took him apart, piece by piece. Tito was never the same again after that loss.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
He'll fight on, but it's pretty obvious that his short reign at the top of the LHW division is long over.
He's a talented guy but when you see him struggling so much against a guy like Karpency, can we really give him much of a chance against a Kovalev or a Stevenson rematch?
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
By the way, Hopkins is a phenom. No denying it. His fight with Kovalev is possibly the biggest fight of 2014. I wish he would take more stringent drug tests. It is my only complaint of him.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Ledderman? What fight were you watching?
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
To be honest, he did look good. His movement was good. He took some shots. Karpency did come up for the fight and may be underrated. Dawson did hurt his hand/shoulder. Even with that he still moved around the ring and Karpency couldn't catch him clean afterwards...
I think Dawson was looking for a gift decision. It could have gone either way. I feel the Ledderman card was a little mean, knowing full well Dawson had to have a good in-road with Showtime and her father is a long standing employee of their rival, HBO.
Be that as it may... I wouldn't want to call it quits yet. I would want to rematch Karpency. He doesn't have to, but rematch him anyways- and, if you cant get the win then, perhaps you should call it a day.
6 fights in 3 years, win 2 (1 against a nobody) - 1 draw - 3 Losses (2 bad stoppages)
I think with that kind of form at 32 it may be tough for him to get back on track.
It's made all the worse with the fact that he is STILL a threat, so even if he wanted to try quickly to get back up there, he may find it hard to get the correct ranked fighters to accept his challenges.
Congrats to you also yk on a decent thread worth reading!
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Ledderman? What fight were you watching?
His daughter Julie was one of the judges
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
To be honest, he did look good. His movement was good. He took some shots. Karpency did come up for the fight and may be underrated. Dawson did hurt his hand/shoulder. Even with that he still moved around the ring and Karpency couldn't catch him clean afterwards...
I think Dawson was looking for a gift decision. It could have gone either way. I feel the Ledderman card was a little mean, knowing full well Dawson had to have a good in-road with Showtime and her father is a long standing employee of their rival, HBO.
Be that as it may... I wouldn't want to call it quits yet. I would want to rematch Karpency. He doesn't have to, but rematch him anyways- and, if you cant get the win then, perhaps you should call it a day.
6 fights in 3 years, win 2 (1 against a nobody) - 1 draw - 3 Losses (2 bad stoppages)
I think with that kind of form at 32 it may be tough for him to get back on track.
It's made all the worse with the fact that he is STILL a threat, so even if he wanted to try quickly to get back up there, he may find it hard to get the correct ranked fighters to accept his challenges.
Congrats to you also yk on a decent thread worth reading!
you could look at this a totally different way tho
6 fights in 3 years, win 2 (1 against a nobody) - 1 draw - 3 Losses (2 bad stoppages)
1 draw? cummon now
1 win against hopkins, cant be sniffed at
1 loss to ward? clearly weight drained
1 loss to stevenson, yeah bad knockout but one punch caught cold and could he have continued?
1 loss the other night, he says he was injured, apparently he clearly didnt use his arm in the last 3
if the ward fight would have been at light heavy, if he hadnt have taken stevenson so lightly? he may never had been in that figt last night
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
I bet B Hop will try and take credit for him losing as he did with Jermaine Taylor and Kelly Pavlik.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
To be honest, he did look good. His movement was good. He took some shots. Karpency did come up for the fight and may be underrated. Dawson did hurt his hand/shoulder. Even with that he still moved around the ring and Karpency couldn't catch him clean afterwards...
I think Dawson was looking for a gift decision. It could have gone either way. I feel the Ledderman card was a little mean, knowing full well Dawson had to have a good in-road with Showtime and her father is a long standing employee of their rival, HBO.
Be that as it may... I wouldn't want to call it quits yet. I would want to rematch Karpency. He doesn't have to, but rematch him anyways- and, if you cant get the win then, perhaps you should call it a day.
6 fights in 3 years, win 2 (1 against a nobody) - 1 draw - 3 Losses (2 bad stoppages)
I think with that kind of form at 32 it may be tough for him to get back on track.
It's made all the worse with the fact that he is STILL a threat, so even if he wanted to try quickly to get back up there, he may find it hard to get the correct ranked fighters to accept his challenges.
Congrats to you also yk on a decent thread worth reading!
you could look at this a totally different way tho
6 fights in 3 years, win 2 (1 against a nobody) - 1 draw - 3 Losses (2 bad stoppages)
1 draw? cummon now
1 win against hopkins, cant be sniffed at
1 loss to ward? clearly weight drained
1 loss to stevenson, yeah bad knockout but one punch caught cold and could he have continued?
1 loss the other night, he says he was injured, apparently he clearly didnt use his arm in the last 3
if the ward fight would have been at light heavy, if he hadnt have taken stevenson so lightly? he may never had been in that figt last night
Good points. It begs the question though whether he is even capable of another performance like he had against Hopkins now.
Re: Chad Dawson- is he done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?
Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.
I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.
Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.
I think BOTH Pascal and Bute looked horrible in their fight. Both looked like they were done. Bute I understand because Froch chewed him up and savagely beat him, but Pascal just looks unsure of himself. Pavilik just never looked the same to me after the Hop fight. He was very unsure of himself and was tentative vs. Sergio Martinez. I noticed a decline, but maybe I just overanalyzed it.
Taylor had the Winky fight right after, which was a decent performance. I just remember him at times looking unsure and being maneuvered to the ropes easily by Winky. I remember him regressing after Hopkins, to the point where Manny Steward was openly disgusted with him during the Cory Spinks "fight". I agree that Pavilik finished him off, but it seemed that the late rounds always brought the demons of the Hop fight out for him. He took a pretty good beating the last half of their first fight and was definitely exhausted. It looked like he never wanted to go through that again and I think that experience always weighed heavily on his mind after.
If I remember correctly, Winky was very active and ranked #3 P4P when they fought. I don't remember seeing Winky in the ring for years after that loss, and even then he came back to be dominated by Paul Williams and then Peter Quillin. He just didn't have that mental edge in either of those fights, and I can't help but think that Hop is the reason.
Tito was at the zenith of his career. He was coming off an impressive run of beating Sweet Pea (past his best but still the first guy to convincingly beat him), decision over Oscar (i thought Oscar won, but the judges didn't), a dominant decision of David Reid (knocking Reid down multiple times and ruining him), destroying Thiam (I watched it live in Miami), the destruction of Vargas (undefeated Olympian in a classic) and the annihilation of William Joppy (regarded as the solid #2 to Hop and the biggest threat to both Hop and Tito). Hop weighed less than Tito at the weigh in, and put on less weight after. Size had nothing to do with that fight, as Hop was just the better fighter and took his heart, took him to school and took him apart, piece by piece. Tito was never the same again after that loss.
There is an unbelievable amount wrong with this post. The most outlandish is that Tito ruined David Reid, David Reid's eye ruined David Reid. I could go on and on but there is too much to correct. The idea Hop ruins everyone is only perpetrated by those that wish to overhype Hops opponents. Seriously, Hop made Taylor a tense fighter years before they fought? Hop gave him stamina issues? C'mon man, you know the sport, you're better than this.
So, Reid wasn't an undefeated titlist who had won a gold medal when Tito fought him?!? I guess I don't know the sport. U can make any qualifier u want but the fact is that was a very impressive run Tito went on and at the time Reid was a very formidable challenger. Reid's eye had nothing to do with what happened in that fight, Titos punch and tenacity did.
Next, if u can't see the difference between Taylor who fought Hop and the guy who was tentative vs Spinks n spit the bit vs Pavilik, u r blind or refuse to see it.
I thought Taylor looked very effective and not tentative against Carl Froch (I was there live too for that one). I also didn't think he was tentative against Pavlik. He was just out-gunned.
