Chad Dawson- is he done?

[mikeeod]

I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?

Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.

[holmcall]

Totally. He also is delusional. Time for career change.

[Rantcatrat]

I had this fight close and I wasn't upset with the score. If Dawson is struggling with Karpecny, it has to be assumed that he is on his way out. I am and was a fan of Bad Chad's. He's a good, solid boxer. I hope he has one more good performance in him. How about Fonfara? I understand Dawson lost but he's still well known.

[Rantcatrat]

I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?

Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.

I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.

Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.

[mikeeod]

I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?

Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.

I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.

Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.

I think BOTH Pascal and Bute looked horrible in their fight. Both looked like they were done. Bute I understand because Froch chewed him up and savagely beat him, but Pascal just looks unsure of himself. Pavilik just never looked the same to me after the Hop fight. He was very unsure of himself and was tentative vs. Sergio Martinez. I noticed a decline, but maybe I just overanalyzed it.

Taylor had the Winky fight right after, which was a decent performance. I just remember him at times looking unsure and being maneuvered to the ropes easily by Winky. I remember him regressing after Hopkins, to the point where Manny Steward was openly disgusted with him during the Cory Spinks "fight". I agree that Pavilik finished him off, but it seemed that the late rounds always brought the demons of the Hop fight out for him. He took a pretty good beating the last half of their first fight and was definitely exhausted. It looked like he never wanted to go through that again and I think that experience always weighed heavily on his mind after.

If I remember correctly, Winky was very active and ranked #3 P4P when they fought. I don't remember seeing Winky in the ring for years after that loss, and even then he came back to be dominated by Paul Williams and then Peter Quillin. He just didn't have that mental edge in either of those fights, and I can't help but think that Hop is the reason.

Tito was at the zenith of his career. He was coming off an impressive run of beating Sweet Pea (past his best but still the first guy to convincingly beat him), decision over Oscar (i thought Oscar won, but the judges didn't), a dominant decision of David Reid (knocking Reid down multiple times and ruining him), destroying Thiam (I watched it live in Miami), the destruction of Vargas (undefeated Olympian in a classic) and the annihilation of William Joppy (regarded as the solid #2 to Hop and the biggest threat to both Hop and Tito). Hop weighed less than Tito at the weigh in, and put on less weight after. Size had nothing to do with that fight, as Hop was just the better fighter and took his heart, took him to school and took him apart, piece by piece. Tito was never the same again after that loss.

[Beanflicker]

He'll fight on, but it's pretty obvious that his short reign at the top of the LHW division is long over.

He's a talented guy but when you see him struggling so much against a guy like Karpency, can we really give him much of a chance against a Kovalev or a Stevenson rematch?

[Ron Swanson]

I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?

Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.

I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.

Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.

I think BOTH Pascal and Bute looked horrible in their fight. Both looked like they were done. Bute I understand because Froch chewed him up and savagely beat him, but Pascal just looks unsure of himself. Pavilik just never looked the same to me after the Hop fight. He was very unsure of himself and was tentative vs. Sergio Martinez. I noticed a decline, but maybe I just overanalyzed it.

Taylor had the Winky fight right after, which was a decent performance. I just remember him at times looking unsure and being maneuvered to the ropes easily by Winky. I remember him regressing after Hopkins, to the point where Manny Steward was openly disgusted with him during the Cory Spinks "fight". I agree that Pavilik finished him off, but it seemed that the late rounds always brought the demons of the Hop fight out for him. He took a pretty good beating the last half of their first fight and was definitely exhausted. It looked like he never wanted to go through that again and I think that experience always weighed heavily on his mind after.

If I remember correctly, Winky was very active and ranked #3 P4P when they fought. I don't remember seeing Winky in the ring for years after that loss, and even then he came back to be dominated by Paul Williams and then Peter Quillin. He just didn't have that mental edge in either of those fights, and I can't help but think that Hop is the reason.

Tito was at the zenith of his career. He was coming off an impressive run of beating Sweet Pea (past his best but still the first guy to convincingly beat him), decision over Oscar (i thought Oscar won, but the judges didn't), a dominant decision of David Reid (knocking Reid down multiple times and ruining him), destroying Thiam (I watched it live in Miami), the destruction of Vargas (undefeated Olympian in a classic) and the annihilation of William Joppy (regarded as the solid #2 to Hop and the biggest threat to both Hop and Tito). Hop weighed less than Tito at the weigh in, and put on less weight after. Size had nothing to do with that fight, as Hop was just the better fighter and took his heart, took him to school and took him apart, piece by piece. Tito was never the same again after that loss.

There is an unbelievable amount wrong with this post. The most outlandish is that Tito ruined David Reid, David Reid's eye ruined David Reid. I could go on and on but there is too much to correct. The idea Hop ruins everyone is only perpetrated by those that wish to overhype Hops opponents. Seriously, Hop made Taylor a tense fighter years before they fought? Hop gave him stamina issues? C'mon man, you know the sport, you're better than this.

[Rantcatrat]

By the way, Hopkins is a phenom. No denying it. His fight with Kovalev is possibly the biggest fight of 2014. I wish he would take more stringent drug tests. It is my only complaint of him.

[ruthless rocco]

Ledderman? What fight were you watching?

[walrus]

Ledderman? What fight were you watching?

His daughter Julie was one of the judges

[mikeeod]

I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?

Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.

I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.

Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.

I think BOTH Pascal and Bute looked horrible in their fight. Both looked like they were done. Bute I understand because Froch chewed him up and savagely beat him, but Pascal just looks unsure of himself. Pavilik just never looked the same to me after the Hop fight. He was very unsure of himself and was tentative vs. Sergio Martinez. I noticed a decline, but maybe I just overanalyzed it.

Taylor had the Winky fight right after, which was a decent performance. I just remember him at times looking unsure and being maneuvered to the ropes easily by Winky. I remember him regressing after Hopkins, to the point where Manny Steward was openly disgusted with him during the Cory Spinks "fight". I agree that Pavilik finished him off, but it seemed that the late rounds always brought the demons of the Hop fight out for him. He took a pretty good beating the last half of their first fight and was definitely exhausted. It looked like he never wanted to go through that again and I think that experience always weighed heavily on his mind after.

If I remember correctly, Winky was very active and ranked #3 P4P when they fought. I don't remember seeing Winky in the ring for years after that loss, and even then he came back to be dominated by Paul Williams and then Peter Quillin. He just didn't have that mental edge in either of those fights, and I can't help but think that Hop is the reason.

Tito was at the zenith of his career. He was coming off an impressive run of beating Sweet Pea (past his best but still the first guy to convincingly beat him), decision over Oscar (i thought Oscar won, but the judges didn't), a dominant decision of David Reid (knocking Reid down multiple times and ruining him), destroying Thiam (I watched it live in Miami), the destruction of Vargas (undefeated Olympian in a classic) and the annihilation of William Joppy (regarded as the solid #2 to Hop and the biggest threat to both Hop and Tito). Hop weighed less than Tito at the weigh in, and put on less weight after. Size had nothing to do with that fight, as Hop was just the better fighter and took his heart, took him to school and took him apart, piece by piece. Tito was never the same again after that loss.

There is an unbelievable amount wrong with this post. The most outlandish is that Tito ruined David Reid, David Reid's eye ruined David Reid. I could go on and on but there is too much to correct. The idea Hop ruins everyone is only perpetrated by those that wish to overhype Hops opponents. Seriously, Hop made Taylor a tense fighter years before they fought? Hop gave him stamina issues? C'mon man, you know the sport, you're better than this.

So, Reid wasn't an undefeated titlist who had won a gold medal when Tito fought him?!? I guess I don't know the sport. U can make any qualifier u want but the fact is that was a very impressive run Tito went on and at the time Reid was a very formidable challenger. Reid's eye had nothing to do with what happened in that fight, Titos punch and tenacity did.

Next, if u can't see the difference between Taylor who fought Hop and the guy who was tentative vs Spinks n spit the bit vs Pavilik, u r blind or refuse to see it.

[Master]

I bet B Hop will try and take credit for him losing as he did with Jermaine Taylor and Kelly Pavlik.

[Rantcatrat]

I say he is done. The bigger question/observation, and along the lines of a thread I started, is what happens to guys after they fight Hop? Think about it, Tito, Winky, Jermain Taylor, Pascal, Cloud, Tarver, Pavilik and Dawson all fell apart after fighting him. Taylor and Dawson both got decisions over Hop, and Dawson actually deserved his, neither took career ending punishment and both guys deteriorated significantly immediately after fighting him. Is it mental? Does he make them doubt themselves or become hesitant to miss or get countered?

Anyways, I hate to try and hijack a thread on a different topic, just wondering what happened to Dawson. I feel he is done at this point, missing the desire and mental edge necessary to reach the elite level he was at. Just wondering what caused it, because while he took a horrific beating vs Ward, he already seemed to be damaged goods going into that fight.

I can see why you think that, but I don't think so. Mind you those were all good performances by Hopkins and I mean to take nothing away from him. I just don't think he's done that to anyone.

Pavlik had a few good performances after losing to Hopkins. He beat up Rubio, who went on to stop Lemiuex and is fighting GGG in a few weeks. He also beat up Will Rosinksy, who although not great, is not a slouch either. Ultimately, Pavlik was a much better middleweight than he was above middleweight, which showed against Hopkins. Taylor also beat up Froch for 9 or 10 rounds before losing to him in the final two rounds. But, if anything, Pavlik ruined Taylor. Cloud was exposed by Campillo, lest we forget, before the Hopkins fight. Campillo schooled him and was robbed. Winky is an odd case. I don't think he ever was ruined. Why do you think he was? I think Tito was above his best weight class when he fought Hopkins too. You didn't mention Pascal but he beat up Bute after losing to Hopkins. I just don't see it.

I think BOTH Pascal and Bute looked horrible in their fight. Both looked like they were done. Bute I understand because Froch chewed him up and savagely beat him, but Pascal just looks unsure of himself. Pavilik just never looked the same to me after the Hop fight. He was very unsure of himself and was tentative vs. Sergio Martinez. I noticed a decline, but maybe I just overanalyzed it.

Taylor had the Winky fight right after, which was a decent performance. I just remember him at times looking unsure and being maneuvered to the ropes easily by Winky. I remember him regressing after Hopkins, to the point where Manny Steward was openly disgusted with him during the Cory Spinks "fight". I agree that Pavilik finished him off, but it seemed that the late rounds always brought the demons of the Hop fight out for him. He took a pretty good beating the last half of their first fight and was definitely exhausted. It looked like he never wanted to go through that again and I think that experience always weighed heavily on his mind after.

If I remember correctly, Winky was very active and ranked #3 P4P when they fought. I don't remember seeing Winky in the ring for years after that loss, and even then he came back to be dominated by Paul Williams and then Peter Quillin. He just didn't have that mental edge in either of those fights, and I can't help but think that Hop is the reason.

Tito was at the zenith of his career. He was coming off an impressive run of beating Sweet Pea (past his best but still the first guy to convincingly beat him), decision over Oscar (i thought Oscar won, but the judges didn't), a dominant decision of David Reid (knocking Reid down multiple times and ruining him), destroying Thiam (I watched it live in Miami), the destruction of Vargas (undefeated Olympian in a classic) and the annihilation of William Joppy (regarded as the solid #2 to Hop and the biggest threat to both Hop and Tito). Hop weighed less than Tito at the weigh in, and put on less weight after. Size had nothing to do with that fight, as Hop was just the better fighter and took his heart, took him to school and took him apart, piece by piece. Tito was never the same again after that loss.

There is an unbelievable amount wrong with this post. The most outlandish is that Tito ruined David Reid, David Reid's eye ruined David Reid. I could go on and on but there is too much to correct. The idea Hop ruins everyone is only perpetrated by those that wish to overhype Hops opponents. Seriously, Hop made Taylor a tense fighter years before they fought? Hop gave him stamina issues? C'mon man, you know the sport, you're better than this.

So, Reid wasn't an undefeated titlist who had won a gold medal when Tito fought him?!? I guess I don't know the sport. U can make any qualifier u want but the fact is that was a very impressive run Tito went on and at the time Reid was a very formidable challenger. Reid's eye had nothing to do with what happened in that fight, Titos punch and tenacity did.

Next, if u can't see the difference between Taylor who fought Hop and the guy who was tentative vs Spinks n spit the bit vs Pavilik, u r blind or refuse to see it.

I thought Taylor looked very effective and not tentative against Carl Froch (I was there live too for that one). I also didn't think he was tentative against Pavlik. He was just out-gunned.