Who will be remembered as the greater fighter: Bernard Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather?

I think Bernard Hopkins had a greater career than Floyd Mayweather.

He fought the best, while Floyd avoided many of the better boxers in and around his division.

Floyd avoided Williams, Margarito, prime Mosley, Morales, prime De La Hoya, Casamayor, Tszyu, Forrest and of course Pacquiao.

I remember Hopkins once offered to fight a heavyweight Oleg Maskaev when Oleg had the WBC title.

Legacy wise Hopkins and its not really that close. If you measure the success of a fighter based on their bank account, ppv numbers or trinket collection then Floyd.

Greater fighter? Floyd
Greater career? Floyd

Was this a joke thread?

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

Was this a joke thread?

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Sometimes I have to wonder if these guys really believe the shit they say. It's mind boggling. ;D

Mayweather isn't fit to carry Hopkins jockstrap

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

Was this a joke thread?

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Sometimes I have to wonder if these guys really believe the shit they say. It's mind boggling. ;D

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To even debate this would be mind boggling its so ridiculous. One man has been concerned with legacy his entire career. The other money.

In what ways is Bernard Better than Floyd?

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

In what ways is Bernard Better than Floyd?

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He fought everybody, most of them in their prime.

Floyd avoided many, or waited until they faded (Mosley was 40 when Floyd fought his, De La Hoya was past his best). Floyd fought a lot of clubfighters/fringe contenders like Ortiz, Mitchell, and Maidana.

None

Floyd might be remembered as a good businessman

Hop might be remembered as an old fart fighter

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

In what ways is Bernard Better than Floyd?

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He fought everybody, most of them in their prime.

Floyd avoided many, or waited until they faded (Mosley was 40 when Floyd fought his, De La Hoya was past his best). Floyd fought a lot of clubfighters/fringe contenders like Ortiz, Mitchell, and Maidana.

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actually floyd probably fought tougher opposition. bhop did clean out the MW division but most of the people he fought werent really that good. the fight that really put him over was against tito who was a welter. same with de la hoya. i would say that floyds best wins are better than hopkins best wins.

but its a joke of a thread anyways. floyd is a top 20 p4p of all time. bernard basically sealed his legacy because of his age. floyd sealed his with his greatness.

Floyd fans - it's not even debatable. Fact.

Hop fans - it's not even debatable. Fact.

lol. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I think Bernard Hopkins had a greater career than Floyd Mayweather.

He fought the best, while Floyd avoided many of the better boxers in and around his division.

Floyd avoided Williams, Margarito, prime Mosley, Morales, prime De La Hoya, Casamayor, Tszyu, Forrest and of course Pacquiao.

I remember Hopkins once offered to fight a heavyweight Oleg Maskaev when Oleg had the WBC title.

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We have to base that on several variables. To me, we have to base that on:
1. Technical Skills
2.Competition Faced
3. KO and Knock Down ration
4. Odds of either fighter losing and then winning against the odds
and...
5. Who made more noise by calling out the top guys.

We should start the discussion from there, or add any other variables to the mix.

if Floyd is still beating up grown men who can be his kids on a championship level in 10 years then he can make a case for how good he is, until then

Hopkins - Former Undisputed Middleweight champion with 20 defenses (not 22 cause he was robbed in both fights against Taylor), 3 time Light Heavyweight champ (two time lineal), oldest champion in any weight class, oldest world champion to successfully defend title, and oldest champion to unify world titles, wins over the likes of John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Robert Allen, Antwun Echols, Felix Trinidad, Joppy, De La Hoya, Eastman, Taylor (he was robbed in both fights), Tarver, Winky Wright, Calzaghe (again, I felt he won it), Pavlik, Pascal (should have a W on both fights), Cloud, and Shumenov

c'mon now people

If you're one of the many who go on about Floyd ducking and dodging everyone, and waiting until very one was old to fight them, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and you're not worth talking to about it.

I would love to hear who exactly people think Hopkins beat that puts him so highly above Floyd. I remember a time when Hopkins was picked apart for his opponents because the consensus was that his best wins (Trinidad, De La Hoya) were against smaller opponents who had no business fighting at middleweight. ;D

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

if Floyd is still beating up grown men who can be his kids on a championship level in 10 years then he can make a case for how good he is, until then

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Ok well I guess by that criteria, Bernard Hopkins is the greatest fighter of all time, because there's no other fighter in history who has been so good at that age.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I think Bernard Hopkins had a greater career than Floyd Mayweather.

He fought the best, while Floyd avoided many of the better boxers in and around his division.

Floyd avoided Williams, Margarito, prime Mosley, Morales, prime De La Hoya, Casamayor, Tszyu, Forrest and of course Pacquiao.

I remember Hopkins once offered to fight a heavyweight Oleg Maskaev when Oleg had the WBC title.

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Floyd Mayweather is a America’s worst nightmare : A young, RICH, black man who is confident as hell to the point of cockiness. Although his antics are annoying as hell, the reason people hate Floyd is because he is a black man who’s UNBROKEN.

People hate, and I do mean HATE, to see a black man who is confident. The amount of hate that this man is generating from non-blacks is utterly insane.

You have got strategists all over the damn internet trying to come up with blueprints on how to defeat Mayweather.

Like I have said before, a million times, is that boxing, as well as other combat sports, are all SYMBOLIC.

Many non-black men, whether they admit it, or not, are intimidated by black men, and many of them feel empowered when they see a non-black man kick a black man’s ass in anything; especially fighting.

I’ve noticed ever since the advent of MMA, white and other non-black men have become more confident than ever when it comes to challenging black men.

They finally feel as if they have an answer to the hand-to-hand combat problem when it comes to black men. I will tell you one thing, many brothers reading this better recognize; because other races of men aren’t taking these damn courses for their health.

The thought of besting a black man in hand-to-hand combat is their chief motivation; and many cats don’t have a clue as to what’s going on.

All of a sudden, you’ll begin to notice non-black men who are LOOKING to pick fights with you out of nowhere; literally trying to PROVOKE you into a fight. They will feel bold enough to do this because they know something that YOU DON’T.

And if black men think that they are going to get by off of a damn intimidation “Scary black guy” factor, they got another thing coming.

Many of the younger black men swim like women when they fight. No technique at all, just wild as hell and running your mouth won’t work these days brothers. You are going to be forced to SHOW and PROVE

Just watch James Toney get his ass kicked by Randy Couture, yeah sure Toney was out of shape and past his best, but so was Couture.

Even though I am a boxer, I definitely plan on adding grappling techniques to my repertoire;

The bottom line is this: many non-black men measure their manhood in comparison to black men. That’s the main reason why they are damn near drooling at the thought of Floyd Mayweather’s defeat. They are looking for any confirmation that they can get that they are, somehow, manlier than what they perceive black men to be.

Floyd took half of his prime years off. Why? Cause he picked his fights and was rich. Shares half the blame for the biggest non fight in history and retired instead of honouring a rematch contract with Oscar. The question is who will historians remember as the greater fighter. It makes little difference whether or not one believes Floyd beats Hopkins in some hypothetical. When you take all things into account Hopkins wins hands down. Just his age alone almost wins the thing let alone his list of accomplishments at his advanced age throughout his 26 years. Like I said, not even close. Prove me wrong and make the case the other way. And don’t speak down to me like somehow I'm blinded by something and don’t believe what I'm saying. A question was asked and I answered it because I believe it to be so or I would not have said so.

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Originally Posted by denilson200

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I think Bernard Hopkins had a greater career than Floyd Mayweather.

He fought the best, while Floyd avoided many of the better boxers in and around his division.

Floyd avoided Williams, Margarito, prime Mosley, Morales, prime De La Hoya, Casamayor, Tszyu, Forrest and of course Pacquiao.

I remember Hopkins once offered to fight a heavyweight Oleg Maskaev when Oleg had the WBC title.

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Floyd Mayweather is a America’s worst nightmare : A young, RICH, black man who is confident as hell to the point of cockiness. Although his antics are annoying as hell, the reason people hate Floyd is because he is a black man who’s UNBROKEN.

People hate, and I do mean HATE, to see a black man who is confident. The amount of hate that this man is generating from non-blacks is utterly insane.

You have got strategists all over the damn internet trying to come up with blueprints on how to defeat Mayweather.

Like I have said before, a million times, is that boxing, as well as other combat sports, are all SYMBOLIC.

Many non-black men, whether they admit it, or not, are intimidated by black men, and many of them feel empowered when they see a non-black man kick a black man’s ass in anything; especially fighting.

I’ve noticed ever since the advent of MMA, white and other non-black men have become more confident than ever when it comes to challenging black men.

They finally feel as if they have an answer to the hand-to-hand combat problem when it comes to black men. I will tell you one thing, many brothers reading this better recognize; because other races of men aren’t taking these damn courses for their health.

The thought of besting a black man in hand-to-hand combat is their chief motivation; and many cats don’t have a clue as to what’s going on.

All of a sudden, you’ll begin to notice non-black men who are LOOKING to pick fights with you out of nowhere; literally trying to PROVOKE you into a fight. They will feel bold enough to do this because they know something that YOU DON’T.

And if black men think that they are going to get by off of a damn intimidation “Scary black guy” factor, they got another thing coming.

Many of the younger black men swim like women when they fight. No technique at all, just wild as hell and running your mouth won’t work these days brothers. You are going to be forced to SHOW and PROVE

Just watch James Toney get his ass kicked by Randy Couture, yeah sure Toney was out of shape and past his best, but so was Couture.

Even though I am a boxer, I definitely plan on adding grappling techniques to my repertoire;

The bottom line is this: many non-black men measure their manhood in comparison to black men. That’s the main reason why they are damn near drooling at the thought of Floyd Mayweather’s defeat. They are looking for any confirmation that they can get that they are, somehow, manlier than what they perceive black men to be.

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Man you have to come up for air off that tired tirade brother. That last part reads like a comedy skit. Not being a fan of Mayweather isn't a 'non black' thing...it's a prevent-defense arsehole with a god complex thing.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Floyd took half of his prime years off. Why? Cause he picked his fights and was rich. Shares half the blame for the biggest non fight in history and retired instead of honouring a rematch contract with Oscar. The question is who will historians remember as the greater fighter. It makes little difference whether or not one believes Floyd beats Hopkins in some hypothetical. When you take all things into account Hopkins wins hands down. Just his age alone almost wins the thing let alone his list of accomplishments at his advanced age throughout his 26 years. Like I said, not even close. Prove me wrong and make the case the other way. And don’t speak down to me like somehow I'm blinded by something and don’t believe what I'm saying. A question was asked and I answered it because I believe it to be so or I would not have said so.

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Longevity is only one factor. Bhop has really raised his legacy because of it. That doesn't mean that he is the best fighter ever. Other than longevity, what else does Bhop have over Floyd? I ask it honestly. Cleaning out his division is the only thing I can think of but his list of opponents at middleweight aren't that impressive. Floyd could have done the same thing but chose to move up in weight to fighter better competition.

Bernard Hopkins was a dirty cheating piece of shit who deliberately rabbit punched, low blowed, arm twisted, hip punched, head butted, elbow punched, faked injury and wrassled throughout his fights. Tactics which should have led to many points being deducted and several DQ's over the course of his career..
Was he crafty? Yes.
Did he win a lot of fights in a row? Yes.
Does this make him better than a naturally gifted athlete and boxing genius like Floyd Mayweather? Not a chance.

Floyd has gone 18 years without a loss. A 5 division world champion with 10 world titles and the lineal champion in 4 weight classes. His amateur record of 84-6 is superb. The highest paid athlete in the world in 2014, 2013, 2012 is remarkable. After having bought out his own contract, he has promoted himself for half his career and has earned over $400million in the fight game.

Has Hopkins accomplished a lot? Yes.
More than anyone expected? Certainly!
Is he the oldest guy to be good at ANYTHING? Absolutely!!
Does this make him a better fighter? NO!!

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Floyd took half of his prime years off. Why? Cause he picked his fights and was rich. Shares half the blame for the biggest non fight in history and retired instead of honouring a rematch contract with Oscar. The question is who will historians remember as the greater fighter. It makes little difference whether or not one believes Floyd beats Hopkins in some hypothetical. When you take all things into account Hopkins wins hands down. Just his age alone almost wins the thing let alone his list of accomplishments at his advanced age throughout his 26 years. Like I said, not even close. Prove me wrong and make the case the other way. And don’t speak down to me like somehow I'm blinded by something and don’t believe what I'm saying. A question was asked and I answered it because I believe it to be so or I would not have said so.

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1. Floyd announced his retirement in June 2008. On May 2009, he announced he would be coming back to fight JMM in July 2009. Mayweather got hurt in training and the bout was pushed back to September 2009. So Mayweather was officially retired for about 11 months.

2. Bernard's accomplishments: fantastic career, and has had longevity like no one else in the history of boxing. Are we going completely off of longevity though? In that case, we don't need to talk anymore about it, because Bernard Hopkins is the undisputed #1 of all time, surpassing everyone. If we're talking about opposition beat (and I believe we are, because that always becomes the topic of discussion with Mayweather), who did he beat that puts him so far above Mayweather?

Why are guys like Trinidad and De la Hoya (both who really didn't belong at MW), Tarver, Wright, Pavlik, Pascal, Cloud, and whoever else you want to throw in there so much better than the guys Mayweather fought?

And when we talk about accomplishment, why don't we also talk about shortcomings, of which Floyd has none even after 18 years of professional fighting? Hopkins came up short vs Jones (no shame there, prime Jones was practically unbeatable), came up short vs Jermain twice, came up short vs Calzaghe and Dawson. Now granted, you can make the argument that those losses were in the advanced part of his career (but really, when you're talking about Hopkins, 40 wasn't an advanced part of his career), which is fair enough, but then again I'd have to ask who Hopkins beat during his 10 plus years as middleweight king that was so far above who Mayweather beat?

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Floyd took half of his prime years off. Why? Cause he picked his fights and was rich. Shares half the blame for the biggest non fight in history and retired instead of honouring a rematch contract with Oscar. The question is who will historians remember as the greater fighter. It makes little difference whether or not one believes Floyd beats Hopkins in some hypothetical. When you take all things into account Hopkins wins hands down. Just his age alone almost wins the thing let alone his list of accomplishments at his advanced age throughout his 26 years. Like I said, not even close. Prove me wrong and make the case the other way. And don’t speak down to me like somehow I'm blinded by something and don’t believe what I'm saying. A question was asked and I answered it because I believe it to be so or I would not have said so.

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Longevity is only one factor. Bhop has really raised his legacy because of it. That doesn't mean that he is the best fighter ever. Other than longevity, what else does Bhop have over Floyd? I ask it honestly. Cleaning out his division is the only thing I can think of but his list of opponents at middleweight aren't that impressive. Floyd could have done the same thing but chose to move up in weight to fighter better competition.

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I know it is but I swear to God that when questions such as this get asked there are certain people that default to Floyd w/o even thinking about it. Its not just his longevity but its what he accomplished during it and how old he was when he started it. Maybe many of these people believe Bieber is better then the Stones. I've gone to bat for Floyd on just as many occasions as I've gone to bat for Hopkins and I wouldn't hang out with either of them.

When an historian looks at these questions he or she takes everything into account. Collecting trinkets although impressive I guess is not what it used to be. Floyd never unified one division he fought in. He never had to right. He was calling is own shots and anyone else in any of those 7 divisions would have been rubbed out right. He gets credit for no time served and yes I realize how good he was but he actually under achieved and at every question or any inquiry to the reasons there is always an excuse.

The question is, "who will be remembered as the greater fighter" I'm saying that it will be Hopkins if people bother to actually take an honest look. To be perfectly clear, I don't see anyone presently fighting that compares overall and even further I cant think of anyone who has retired over the last decade that compares which include many of my favourites who I cheered for when they fought him.

If anyone would like to do a comparison and make the case on the front page of this forum in favour of Mayweather and lay it on the line against Hopkins then I'm your huckleberry. Let me know when you'd like to make the submissions.

Now discussing pure in-ring ability, the two areas where Floyd usually dwarfs everyone else (discipline and ring intelligence), Hopkins matches him, and probably exceeds him in the discipline category. Both guys were master boxers, true ring generals. That being said, Mayweather had more adaptability to change gears if something wasn't working. He had more depth in his game, whereas Hopkins was more apt to stick to his one style. When Hopkins ran up against a bad style for him (Taylor, Dawson) he wasn't able to make the adjustments and find a way to win, even in the rematches. Floyd was always able to make adjustments and get better as the fight progressed, and in the few rematches he had, he was always a different man in the second fight and went on to dominate.

Mayweather had more tools in his arsenal, and had superior athletic ability than Bhop. When I say better athlete, I'm speaking of speed, agility and reflexes (all of which Hopkins had an abundance of, but Mayweather's levels were off the charts). Mayweather was also the better puncher (something that isn't said too often).

Did Bernard ever hold a belt at 168? I don't think so. I was just thinking that if he so, he'd be a three weight class champion above 160, which has to be rare.

The OP's question cannot be answered yet because both fighters are still fighting.

Will Kovalev go on to have a HOF career? Will Bernard beat Stevenson to become the lineal champion before bowing out? Will Floyd fight GGG or even Kid Chocolate or even have another celebrated win at 147?

With all that said, although Bernard's opposition may be better, he lost to the best he faced: Joe Calzaghe, Sergiy Kovalev, Roy Jones, Jermain Taylor, Chad Dawson. Floyd never faced a Calzaghe or Roy Jones but he also hasn't lost. They both beat Oscar.

Who we admire more and who is ranked historically higher are two different things, I think.

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Originally Posted by denilson200

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I think Bernard Hopkins had a greater career than Floyd Mayweather.

He fought the best, while Floyd avoided many of the better boxers in and around his division.

Floyd avoided Williams, Margarito, prime Mosley, Morales, prime De La Hoya, Casamayor, Tszyu, Forrest and of course Pacquiao.

I remember Hopkins once offered to fight a heavyweight Oleg Maskaev when Oleg had the WBC title.

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Floyd Mayweather is a America’s worst nightmare : A young, RICH, black man who is confident as hell to the point of cockiness. Although his antics are annoying as hell, the reason people hate Floyd is because he is a black man who’s UNBROKEN.

People hate, and I do mean HATE, to see a black man who is confident. The amount of hate that this man is generating from non-blacks is utterly insane.

You have got strategists all over the damn internet trying to come up with blueprints on how to defeat Mayweather.

Like I have said before, a million times, is that boxing, as well as other combat sports, are all SYMBOLIC.

Many non-black men, whether they admit it, or not, are intimidated by black men, and many of them feel empowered when they see a non-black man kick a black man’s ass in anything; especially fighting.

I’ve noticed ever since the advent of MMA, white and other non-black men have become more confident than ever when it comes to challenging black men.

They finally feel as if they have an answer to the hand-to-hand combat problem when it comes to black men. I will tell you one thing, many brothers reading this better recognize; because other races of men aren’t taking these damn courses for their health.

The thought of besting a black man in hand-to-hand combat is their chief motivation; and many cats don’t have a clue as to what’s going on.

All of a sudden, you’ll begin to notice non-black men who are LOOKING to pick fights with you out of nowhere; literally trying to PROVOKE you into a fight. They will feel bold enough to do this because they know something that YOU DON’T.

And if black men think that they are going to get by off of a damn intimidation “Scary black guy” factor, they got another thing coming.

Many of the younger black men swim like women when they fight. No technique at all, just wild as hell and running your mouth won’t work these days brothers. You are going to be forced to SHOW and PROVE

Just watch James Toney get his ass kicked by Randy Couture, yeah sure Toney was out of shape and past his best, but so was Couture.

Even though I am a boxer, I definitely plan on adding grappling techniques to my repertoire;

The bottom line is this: many non-black men measure their manhood in comparison to black men. That’s the main reason why they are damn near drooling at the thought of Floyd Mayweather’s defeat. They are looking for any confirmation that they can get that they are, somehow, manlier than what they perceive black men to be.

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Although some of your comments may be true (I wouldn't know cos I don't live in the USA.), I can't understand the relevance of this to the thread. The original question was relating to 2 Black guys and comparing them , so this "they hate him cos he's black!" business is meaningless.
For the record, I'm not Black and I have a very high estimation of Mayweather. Of course , he's the greater fighter, after all, he's never been beat, so we can't gauge how good he is.
as for this Bullshit about Mayweather avoiding everyone, well that's a joke. He constantly is fighting naturally bigger men just to even things up a bit. It's not his fault that nobody his size can get anywhere near him, that's why he's no.1 Pound for Pound.

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Originally Posted by denilson200

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I think Bernard Hopkins had a greater career than Floyd Mayweather.

He fought the best, while Floyd avoided many of the better boxers in and around his division.

Floyd avoided Williams, Margarito, prime Mosley, Morales, prime De La Hoya, Casamayor, Tszyu, Forrest and of course Pacquiao.

I remember Hopkins once offered to fight a heavyweight Oleg Maskaev when Oleg had the WBC title.

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Floyd Mayweather is a America’s worst nightmare : A young, RICH, black man who is confident as hell to the point of cockiness. Although his antics are annoying as hell, the reason people hate Floyd is because he is a black man who’s UNBROKEN.

People hate, and I do mean HATE, to see a black man who is confident. The amount of hate that this man is generating from non-blacks is utterly insane.

You have got strategists all over the damn internet trying to come up with blueprints on how to defeat Mayweather.

Like I have said before, a million times, is that boxing, as well as other combat sports, are all SYMBOLIC.

Many non-black men, whether they admit it, or not, are intimidated by black men, and many of them feel empowered when they see a non-black man kick a black man’s ass in anything; especially fighting.

I’ve noticed ever since the advent of MMA, white and other non-black men have become more confident than ever when it comes to challenging black men.

They finally feel as if they have an answer to the hand-to-hand combat problem when it comes to black men. I will tell you one thing, many brothers reading this better recognize; because other races of men aren’t taking these damn courses for their health.

The thought of besting a black man in hand-to-hand combat is their chief motivation; and many cats don’t have a clue as to what’s going on.

All of a sudden, you’ll begin to notice non-black men who are LOOKING to pick fights with you out of nowhere; literally trying to PROVOKE you into a fight. They will feel bold enough to do this because they know something that YOU DON’T.

And if black men think that they are going to get by off of a damn intimidation “Scary black guy” factor, they got another thing coming.

Many of the younger black men swim like women when they fight. No technique at all, just wild as hell and running your mouth won’t work these days brothers. You are going to be forced to SHOW and PROVE

Just watch James Toney get his ass kicked by Randy Couture, yeah sure Toney was out of shape and past his best, but so was Couture.

Even though I am a boxer, I definitely plan on adding grappling techniques to my repertoire;

The bottom line is this: many non-black men measure their manhood in comparison to black men. That’s the main reason why they are damn near drooling at the thought of Floyd Mayweather’s defeat. They are looking for any confirmation that they can get that they are, somehow, manlier than what they perceive black men to be.

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Damn, I wanted to reply to this thread but when I read the words of our resident profit @denilson200 I was left speechless. Denilson, you say you are a boxer and non black men quiver at the prospect of fighting a black man. I would love to meet you in the ring @denilson200 and my fear, if any, would arise from your talent and your size only. After we fought, I wont say I would kick your ass but I am confident that would occur, our post fight hug would be exceptionally long as I spend many nights dreaming of holding you close.

Before Denilson gets himself banned I thank him for reminding me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgTuarwFm6s

I am not one to jump up and say ban anyone. The past couple of people who got banned I disagreed with but @denilson200 has shown his hatred of the white race has made him incapable of any type of normal banter. In this case I don't think he belongs here. I am sure there are many anti-white forums he can find to freely voice his opinion. If others think @denilson200 should stay to remind us how spiteful the human race can be I understand and withdraw my complaint. I still would like to hug him.;)

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Originally Posted by walrus

I am not one to jump up and say ban anyone. The past couple of people who got banned I disagreed with but @denilson200 has shown his hatred of the white race has made him incapable of any type of normal banter. In this case I don't think he belongs here. I am sure there are many anti-white forums he can find to freely voice his opinion. If others think @denilson200 should stay to remind us how spiteful the human race can be I understand and withdraw my complaint. I still would like to hug him.;)

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I'll bet he's just some really angry white guy.

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

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Originally Posted by walrus

I am not one to jump up and say ban anyone. The past couple of people who got banned I disagreed with but @denilson200 has shown his hatred of the white race has made him incapable of any type of normal banter. In this case I don't think he belongs here. I am sure there are many anti-white forums he can find to freely voice his opinion. If others think @denilson200 should stay to remind us how spiteful the human race can be I understand and withdraw my complaint. I still would like to hug him.;)

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I'll bet he's just some really angry white guy.

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You are a genius. He must just be a shill. No one can be that bad. It's probably a frequent member here in drag. I can't believe I fell for it. @denilson200, you rock.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

In what ways is Bernard Better than Floyd?

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He fought everybody, most of them in their prime.

Floyd avoided many, or waited until they faded (Mosley was 40 when Floyd fought his, De La Hoya was past his best). Floyd fought a lot of clubfighters/fringe contenders like Ortiz, Mitchell, and Maidana.

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actually floyd probably fought tougher opposition. bhop did clean out the MW division but most of the people he fought werent really that good. the fight that really put him over was against tito who was a welter. same with de la hoya. i would say that floyds best wins are better than hopkins best wins.

but its a joke of a thread anyways. floyd is a top 20 p4p of all time. bernard basically sealed his legacy because of his age. floyd sealed his with his greatness.

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I would LOVE for you to explain how you think Floyd faced tougher competition. No way and it isn't even close. Floyd hasn't faced nearly as many top guys as Hop. It's not even close. That statement just completely overshadows any valid points you may have made.

Both guys are close and depending on how you weigh the criteria is how you will rank each guy against the other. If you like consistency, multiple titles at multiple weights and no losses you favor Floyd. If you like longevity, historical accomplishments and quality of opposition you favor Hop.

The one aspect of this debate that is asinine is the question of who fought tougher comp. it's not even close. Look at the number of P4P ranked fighters each guy fought while those guys were in their prime and ranked P4P at the time of the fight. This is the only objective method for weighing quality of opposition. Hop wins big here. Not even close...

One of them deliberately bent and broke the rules at every possible occasion in order to win.
The other used superior skills, talent and athleticism to dominate almost every opponent they faced over 18 years.

Who is the greater fighter... The cheater or the virtuoso?

I don't really give a shit, bickering over the legacies of people who werent in the same weight class and could never have been rivals is waste of time imo. This thread is basically proof of why. All that said though, I take Floyd!!!;D

It boils down to whether you prefer longevity over dominance(I certainly don't), how much credit you give a guy for taking fights as opposed to winning them(I actually think FLoyd has more quality wins, but Hopkins has really been through a hell of a gauntlet in the last ten years and has no doubt taken on tougher challenges in that time), and of course white prejudice:p

It's interesting to note that when Hopkins was Floyds age(which is old!!!) he had basically just emerged on the scene beating Tito. What he has done since then is freakish without question, but on the flip side I don't think Hopkins middleweight reign was THAT impressive as the big fights evaded him in those days regardless.

When Floyd is Hopkins' age, he won't be fighting. He'll likely be living in a beach home in Mexico, surrounded by several young male prostitutes who resemble Justin Bieber.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

In what ways is Bernard Better than Floyd?

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He fought everybody, most of them in their prime.

Floyd avoided many, or waited until they faded (Mosley was 40 when Floyd fought his, De La Hoya was past his best). Floyd fought a lot of clubfighters/fringe contenders like Ortiz, Mitchell, and Maidana.

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actually floyd probably fought tougher opposition. bhop did clean out the MW division but most of the people he fought werent really that good. the fight that really put him over was against tito who was a welter. same with de la hoya. i would say that floyds best wins are better than hopkins best wins.

but its a joke of a thread anyways. floyd is a top 20 p4p of all time. bernard basically sealed his legacy because of his age. floyd sealed his with his greatness.

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I would LOVE for you to explain how you think Floyd faced tougher competition. No way and it isn't even close. Floyd hasn't faced nearly as many top guys as Hop. It's not even close. That statement just completely overshadows any valid points you may have made.

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so they have one common opponent and that is de la hoya. that wasnt an impressive win at all for bhop because i knew that de la hoya was way too small and was actually surprised that he did so well. mayweather did the opposite and went up in weight to fight him. and tito (who really made bhop a bigger name) was a one dimensional fighter who was very good at what he did but easily got outboxed (watch the de la hoya and winky fights). plus tito was a welter, not a middleweight.

those are probably his biggest wins along with probably tarver. most of his wins from tarver on were more impressive because of age instead of who they were against. for example, we were all impressed that he beat pascal, not because pascal is great but because bhop was old and did it convincingly (in their second fight at least). most of his wins at middleweight werent that impressive because his opposition wasnt great. look at the list of guys he fought and you will realize that no name really sticks out.

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by denilson200

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I think Bernard Hopkins had a greater career than Floyd Mayweather.

He fought the best, while Floyd avoided many of the better boxers in and around his division.

Floyd avoided Williams, Margarito, prime Mosley, Morales, prime De La Hoya, Casamayor, Tszyu, Forrest and of course Pacquiao.

I remember Hopkins once offered to fight a heavyweight Oleg Maskaev when Oleg had the WBC title.

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Floyd Mayweather is a America’s worst nightmare : A young, RICH, black man who is confident as hell to the point of cockiness. Although his antics are annoying as hell, the reason people hate Floyd is because he is a black man who’s UNBROKEN.

People hate, and I do mean HATE, to see a black man who is confident. The amount of hate that this man is generating from non-blacks is utterly insane.

You have got strategists all over the damn internet trying to come up with blueprints on how to defeat Mayweather.

Like I have said before, a million times, is that boxing, as well as other combat sports, are all SYMBOLIC.

Many non-black men, whether they admit it, or not, are intimidated by black men, and many of them feel empowered when they see a non-black man kick a black man’s ass in anything; especially fighting.

I’ve noticed ever since the advent of MMA, white and other non-black men have become more confident than ever when it comes to challenging black men.

They finally feel as if they have an answer to the hand-to-hand combat problem when it comes to black men. I will tell you one thing, many brothers reading this better recognize; because other races of men aren’t taking these damn courses for their health.

The thought of besting a black man in hand-to-hand combat is their chief motivation; and many cats don’t have a clue as to what’s going on.

All of a sudden, you’ll begin to notice non-black men who are LOOKING to pick fights with you out of nowhere; literally trying to PROVOKE you into a fight. They will feel bold enough to do this because they know something that YOU DON’T.

And if black men think that they are going to get by off of a damn intimidation “Scary black guy” factor, they got another thing coming.

Many of the younger black men swim like women when they fight. No technique at all, just wild as hell and running your mouth won’t work these days brothers. You are going to be forced to SHOW and PROVE

Just watch James Toney get his ass kicked by Randy Couture, yeah sure Toney was out of shape and past his best, but so was Couture.

Even though I am a boxer, I definitely plan on adding grappling techniques to my repertoire;

The bottom line is this: many non-black men measure their manhood in comparison to black men. That’s the main reason why they are damn near drooling at the thought of Floyd Mayweather’s defeat. They are looking for any confirmation that they can get that they are, somehow, manlier than what they perceive black men to be.

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Damn, I wanted to reply to this thread but when I read the words of our resident profit @denilson200 I was left speechless. Denilson, you say you are a boxer and non black men quiver at the prospect of fighting a black man. I would love to meet you in the ring @denilson200 and my fear, if any, would arise from your talent and your size only. After we fought, I wont say I would kick your ass but I am confident that would occur, our post fight hug would be exceptionally long as I spend many nights dreaming of holding you close.

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You may well be able to kick my ass in the ring or in a cage.

I don't under-estimate anyone.

I'm not gonna sit up here and say that I'm super talented at boxing but I just do boxing, sparring for fun and other forms of combat sports to keep me in shape and so should everyone else.

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

One of them deliberately bent and broke the rules at every possible occasion in order to win.
The other used superior skills, talent and athleticism to dominate almost every opponent they faced over 18 years.

Who is the greater fighter... The cheater or the virtuoso?

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Do you recall the Victor Oritz knockout by Mayweather? Hopkins is dirtier but Mayweather is far from clean.

Hopkins and Mayweather are both dirty fighters.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

One of them deliberately bent and broke the rules at every possible occasion in order to win.
The other used superior skills, talent and athleticism to dominate almost every opponent they faced over 18 years.

Who is the greater fighter... The cheater or the virtuoso?

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Do you recall the Victor Oritz knockout by Mayweather? Hopkins is dirtier but Mayweather is far from clean.

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That was a legit KO.
Ortiz deliberately fouled him, kissed him on the cheek, tapped gloves the ref told them to resume fighting.
Ortiz walked towards Floyd with his hands down.
Floyd KO'd him. Fair play. Not dirty.