My Top Ten PFP as of 11-23-14

There is no such thing as the “correct” list. Attempts can be made to close the gap by quantification, but in the end, the entirely subjective nature of any list comparing fighters across different weight categories is bound to be the subject of heated debate and the magnate for many incoming arrows.
These days, most of the same names appear on each list.. With the advantage of listing mine after the Pacquiao- Algieri slaughter on November 22, 2014 and keeping in mind that a PFP should reflect a current snapshot in time (thus eliminating Hopkins based on his loss to Kovalev and Andre Ward because of his growing inactivity), here is my list as of November 23,2014: In compiling it, I carefully weighted and analyzed records, style, chin, KO percentages, skill-sets, entire bodies of work, prime years, dominance, and quality of opposition.

Pound for Pound 11/23/14

1. Manny Pacquiao
2 Floyd Mayweather
3. Roman Gonzalez
4. Timothy Bradley
5. Wladimir Klitschko ↑
6. Carl Froch
7. Vasyl Lomachenko
8. Guillermo Rigondeaux
9. Gennady Golovkin
10. Sergey Kovalev *

GGG make his debut as he continues to tear a hole through the middleweight division and knocks out every one he faces. I also include Sergey Kovalev because of his dominating win over Bernard Hopkins. For me, simple logic dictates that if Kovalev handily beats Hopkins, he should replace him on the list. Otherwise, it was wrong to have listed Hopkins in the first place.

As for Pacquiao replacing Mayweather, Manny’s last three fights show a fighter who hardly appears to be fading. I cannot say the same for Mayweather who now fights off the ropes instead of the middle of the ring—a sure sign that something has changed.

Much is being made of Rigondeaux, but given what the Jamaican “Axeman” did to Nonito Donaire recently and given the bore fest Rigondeaux fought against Joseph Agbeko, I think perhaps too much is being made of him. If that has something to do with his outstanding amateur record, then Lomachenko should also get his due by inclusion. Moreover, any guy who can win a fight with one hand against a 52-1 fighter has, to use Jim Lampley’s term, breathtaking skills.


Thus, my list includes four Eastern European fighters and, for the very first time, a switch at the top. This is in stark contrast to the inclusion of Juan Francisco Estrada and Juan Manuel Marquez—both of whom would be next up on my list.

Nice list, but where's Zou Shiming?

I understand subjectivity but honestly, that list is terrible.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

There is no such thing as the “correct” list. Attempts can be made to close the gap by quantification, but in the end, the entirely subjective nature of any list comparing fighters across different weight categories is bound to be the subject of heated debate and the magnate for many incoming arrows.
These days, most of the same names appear on each list.. With the advantage of listing mine after the Pacquiao- Algieri slaughter on November 22, 2014 and keeping in mind that a PFP should reflect a current snapshot in time (thus eliminating Hopkins based on his loss to Kovalev and Andre Ward because of his growing inactivity), here is my list as of November 23,2014: In compiling it, I carefully weighted and analyzed records, style, chin, KO percentages, skill-sets, entire bodies of work, prime years, dominance, and quality of opposition.

Pound for Pound 11/23/14

1. Manny Pacquiao
2 Floyd Mayweather
3. Roman Gonzalez
4. Timothy Bradley
5. Wladimir Klitschko ↑
6. Carl Froch
7. Vasyl Lomachenko
8. Guillermo Rigondeaux
9. Gennady Golovkin
10. Sergey Kovalev *

GGG make his debut as he continues to tear a hole through the middleweight division and knocks out every one he faces. I also include Sergey Kovalev because of his dominating win over Bernard Hopkins. For me, simple logic dictates that if Kovalev handily beats Hopkins, he should replace him on the list. Otherwise, it was wrong to have listed Hopkins in the first place.

As for Pacquiao replacing Mayweather, Manny’s last three fights show a fighter who hardly appears to be fading. I cannot say the same for Mayweather who now fights off the ropes instead of the middle of the ring—a sure sign that something has changed.

Much is being made of Rigondeaux, but given what the Jamaican “Axeman” did to Nonito Donaire recently and given the bore fest Rigondeaux fought against Joseph Agbeko, I think perhaps too much is being made of him. If that has something to do with his outstanding amateur record, then Lomachenko should also get his due by inclusion. Moreover, any guy who can win a fight with one hand against a 52-1 fighter has, to use Jim Lampley’s term, breathtaking skills.


Thus, my list includes four Eastern European fighters and, for the very first time, a switch at the top. This is in stark contrast to the inclusion of Juan Francisco Estrada and Juan Manuel Marquez—both of whom would be next up on my list.

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These lists are subjective so this comment is in no way geared to try and influence your rankings. Just want to offer a different viewpoint. Rigo might not be the most exciting fighter, but much like Sweet Pea Whitaker his style is VERY effective and allows him to dominate and frustrate many guys who are much more exciting in the ring. P4P Rigo matches up with Floyd. If they were the same size, I put that fight at 50/50. 100% chance of it being a snoozefest though.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

I understand subjectivity but honestly, that list is terrible.

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hmm. What does yours look like?

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Nice list, but where's Zou Shiming?

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As soon as he knocks someone out?;D

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

I understand subjectivity but honestly, that list is terrible.

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hmm. What does yours look like?

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im fine with your criteria since p4p does mean just who is the best in your mind and it doesnt necessarily take into account titles or records broken. so ill go with that. and like you, i wont put in ward since he has been inactive for so long.

mayweather
marquez (i thought that marquez beat bradley)
pac
ggg
kovalev
garcia
froch
rigo
bradley
walters

the hard thing is that i feel like there arent too many people that are just clearly the best other than mayweather. marquez is getting old but is still winning. pac is still legit. i feel like gg and kovalev and both very good even though a little unproven.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

There is no such thing as the “correct” list. Attempts can be made to close the gap by quantification, but in the end, the entirely subjective nature of any list comparing fighters across different weight categories is bound to be the subject of heated debate and the magnate for many incoming arrows.
These days, most of the same names appear on each list.. With the advantage of listing mine after the Pacquiao- Algieri slaughter on November 22, 2014 and keeping in mind that a PFP should reflect a current snapshot in time (thus eliminating Hopkins based on his loss to Kovalev and Andre Ward because of his growing inactivity), here is my list as of November 23,2014: In compiling it, I carefully weighted and analyzed records, style, chin, KO percentages, skill-sets, entire bodies of work, prime years, dominance, and quality of opposition.

Pound for Pound 11/23/14

1. Manny Pacquiao
2 Floyd Mayweather
3. Roman Gonzalez
4. Timothy Bradley
5. Wladimir Klitschko ↑
6. Carl Froch
7. Vasyl Lomachenko
8. Guillermo Rigondeaux
9. Gennady Golovkin
10. Sergey Kovalev *

GGG make his debut as he continues to tear a hole through the middleweight division and knocks out every one he faces. I also include Sergey Kovalev because of his dominating win over Bernard Hopkins. For me, simple logic dictates that if Kovalev handily beats Hopkins, he should replace him on the list. Otherwise, it was wrong to have listed Hopkins in the first place.

As for Pacquiao replacing Mayweather, Manny’s last three fights show a fighter who hardly appears to be fading. I cannot say the same for Mayweather who now fights off the ropes instead of the middle of the ring—a sure sign that something has changed.

Much is being made of Rigondeaux, but given what the Jamaican “Axeman” did to Nonito Donaire recently and given the bore fest Rigondeaux fought against Joseph Agbeko, I think perhaps too much is being made of him. If that has something to do with his outstanding amateur record, then Lomachenko should also get his due by inclusion. Moreover, any guy who can win a fight with one hand against a 52-1 fighter has, to use Jim Lampley’s term, breathtaking skills.


Thus, my list includes four Eastern European fighters and, for the very first time, a switch at the top. This is in stark contrast to the inclusion of Juan Francisco Estrada and Juan Manuel Marquez—both of whom would be next up on my list.

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I don't see how you can have Manny before Floyd or have Froch in the with no Ward.

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

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Originally Posted by holmcall

There is no such thing as the “correct” list. Attempts can be made to close the gap by quantification, but in the end, the entirely subjective nature of any list comparing fighters across different weight categories is bound to be the subject of heated debate and the magnate for many incoming arrows.
These days, most of the same names appear on each list.. With the advantage of listing mine after the Pacquiao- Algieri slaughter on November 22, 2014 and keeping in mind that a PFP should reflect a current snapshot in time (thus eliminating Hopkins based on his loss to Kovalev and Andre Ward because of his growing inactivity), here is my list as of November 23,2014: In compiling it, I carefully weighted and analyzed records, style, chin, KO percentages, skill-sets, entire bodies of work, prime years, dominance, and quality of opposition.

Pound for Pound 11/23/14

1. Manny Pacquiao
2 Floyd Mayweather
3. Roman Gonzalez
4. Timothy Bradley
5. Wladimir Klitschko ↑
6. Carl Froch
7. Vasyl Lomachenko
8. Guillermo Rigondeaux
9. Gennady Golovkin
10. Sergey Kovalev *

GGG make his debut as he continues to tear a hole through the middleweight division and knocks out every one he faces. I also include Sergey Kovalev because of his dominating win over Bernard Hopkins. For me, simple logic dictates that if Kovalev handily beats Hopkins, he should replace him on the list. Otherwise, it was wrong to have listed Hopkins in the first place.

As for Pacquiao replacing Mayweather, Manny’s last three fights show a fighter who hardly appears to be fading. I cannot say the same for Mayweather who now fights off the ropes instead of the middle of the ring—a sure sign that something has changed.

Much is being made of Rigondeaux, but given what the Jamaican “Axeman” did to Nonito Donaire recently and given the bore fest Rigondeaux fought against Joseph Agbeko, I think perhaps too much is being made of him. If that has something to do with his outstanding amateur record, then Lomachenko should also get his due by inclusion. Moreover, any guy who can win a fight with one hand against a 52-1 fighter has, to use Jim Lampley’s term, breathtaking skills.


Thus, my list includes four Eastern European fighters and, for the very first time, a switch at the top. This is in stark contrast to the inclusion of Juan Francisco Estrada and Juan Manuel Marquez—both of whom would be next up on my list.

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I don't see how you can have Manny before Floyd or have Froch in the with no Ward.

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because pac just beat algieri convincingly which puts him above floyd obviously.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Nice list, but where's Zou Shiming?

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As soon as he knocks someone out?;D

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Manny hasn't knocked anyone out in 5 or 6 years but he's #1 p4p apparently.... ;D;D;D

New Ring magazine P4P rankings:

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.

2. Wladimir Klitschko

3. Manny Pacquiao

4. Andre Ward

5. Tim Bradley

6. Juan Manuel Marquez

7. Roman Gonzalez

8. Guillermo Rigondeaux

9. Carl Froch

10. Saul Alvarez

IMO a few things spring to mind.
1. Andre Ward drops from 2 to 4. Bullshit , either he stays the same or drops out completely (most definitely the latter due to inactivity.)
2. No GGG.
3. Maybe Gonzalez should be higher. he shouldn't be penalised because it's a division nobody knows much about.
4. Same goes for Rigondeaux
5. Marquez and Bradley are still quite high despite defeats in their last fights while Canelo is lower yet all he did was lose to the #1.
6. Carl Froch on the List. Really???? I'd Have Kovalev, GGG, Danny Garcia , Mikey Garcia and Crawford above him.
I'm sure that's not going to be popular , but hey-ho.
Like I've said before , the whole thing is Bullshit. P4P should be to judge the best fighter on the planet, and Maybe no.2 and no.3 . After that, it becomes a joke.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Nice list, but where's Zou Shiming?

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As soon as he knocks someone out?;D

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Manny hasn't knocked anyone out in 5 or 6 years but he's #1 p4p apparently.... ;D;D;D

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But neither has Floyd unless you count the fluke against Ortiz.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Nice list, but where's Zou Shiming?

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As soon as he knocks someone out?;D

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Manny hasn't knocked anyone out in 5 or 6 years but he's #1 p4p apparently.... ;D;D;D

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But neither has Floyd unless you count the fluke against Ortiz.

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The rebuttal to that is always, Floyd doesn't go for ko's he just outboxes them. Which is true, but Manny doesn't load up for KO's anymore.. He's just aggressive and whatever happens happens. How can we fault Manny for not getting stops when he wins fights and gives his best effort every time... The same can't be said about Floyd. Money looks for cruise control as soon as its available to him.

Just to stay on topic:

My P4P List

1. Floyd (I hate him, but respect him)
2. Manny (His well placed KO loss has made him a smarter fighter to date and still has plenty in the tank)
3. Ward (Most Talented inactive fighter in history)
4. Rigondeaux (One of the most gifted fighters of this generation, Hoping for Santa Cruz so I can prove this ranking)
5. Marquez (His age has finally caught up with him, but what a tactician)
6. GGG (He will move up soon enough, waiting for the right opponent to prove it)
7. Roman Gonzales (Lower weight makes it tough, but deserves top 10)
8. Mikey Garcia (I know i'll catch grief, but this guy has solid fundamentals and next to no weaknesses)
9. Sergey Kovalev (Just Dangerous)
10. 3-Way Tie (Wlad, Saul, Bradley)

Knocking on the door: Danny Garcia, Miguel Cotto, Terrence Crawford

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Originally Posted by holmcall

But neither has Floyd unless you count the fluke against Ortiz.

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Ok so neither of them belong in the top 5.

I dont see how someone who has lost 2 of their last 5 can be number one. Also cant see how a guy who is 3-1 can be anywhere near the list. Its hard to justify him as a top 5 feather let alone a top P4Pr.

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

I dont see how someone who has lost 2 of their last 5 can be number one. Also cant see how a guy who is 3-1 can be anywhere near the list. Its hard to justify him as a top 5 feather let alone a top P4Pr.

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First, Pac did not lose to Bradley. We all know that so his record is really 4-1. As for Lomachenko, an amateur record of 396-1 and he avenged the loss twice. A world champion after 3 pro fights. Beats a guy with a 52-1 record using one hand. gets hosed against Salido who weighed a lot more and who fought dirty and who was seconds away from being waxed.


No. I have no issue with Pac tied with Mayweather based on a snapshot of what is going on RIGHT NOW.

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Originally Posted by cnote111

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by holmcall

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Nice list, but where's Zou Shiming?

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As soon as he knocks someone out?;D

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Manny hasn't knocked anyone out in 5 or 6 years but he's #1 p4p apparently.... ;D;D;D

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But neither has Floyd unless you count the fluke against Ortiz.

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The rebuttal to that is always, Floyd doesn't go for ko's he just outboxes them. Which is true, but Manny doesn't load up for KO's anymore.. He's just aggressive and whatever happens happens. How can we fault Manny for not getting stops when he wins fights and gives his best effort every time... The same can't be said about Floyd. Money looks for cruise control as soon as its available to him.

Just to stay on topic:

My P4P List

1. Floyd (I hate him, but respect him)
2. Manny (His well placed KO loss has made him a smarter fighter to date and still has plenty in the tank)
3. Ward (Most Talented inactive fighter in history)
4. Rigondeaux (One of the most gifted fighters of this generation, Hoping for Santa Cruz so I can prove this ranking)
5. Marquez (His age has finally caught up with him, but what a tactician)
6. GGG (He will move up soon enough, waiting for the right opponent to prove it)
7. Roman Gonzales (Lower weight makes it tough, but deserves top 10)
8. Mikey Garcia (I know i'll catch grief, but this guy has solid fundamentals and next to no weaknesses)
9. Sergey Kovalev (Just Dangerous)
10. 3-Way Tie (Wlad, Saul, Bradley)

Knocking on the door: Danny Garcia, Miguel Cotto, Terrence Crawford

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Very good, Mikey Garcia is an interesting inclusion and I like your using a tie. Ward must go. Fight or leave. Otherwise, good stuff