Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
So this is for a standard boxing punch - I get the following 3 feelings when I use my hips.
1) I rotate my hips and it feels insanely fast and explosive, but not heavy or as heavy as 2
2) I rotate my hips and it feels very heavy and it is also very fast although not as fast and explosive/sudden as 1. It also is easiest to get the form correct with this one ie a full range of motion is easier, I can even do it from both left and right sides easily with this way. Its the most powerful way or at least feels that way.
3) It just feels light and slow and weak
So obviously I scrap 3. But I don't know if 2 or 1 is the correct form?
Its weird you would have thought you would only get one feeling from trying to rotate your hips the same way each time but I get 3 distinct feelings.
Im going with 2, but its odd that I can produce a more sudden more explosive burst that isn't as heavy.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Try looking at the position of your head.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Try looking at the position of your head.
Why does that matter?
My head stays in the same position (well slightly moves out of the way of a shot like a slip) as my body and shoulders rotate for all methods.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Try looking at the position of your head.
Why does that matter?
My head stays in the same position (well slightly moves out of the way of a shot like a slip) as my body and shoulders rotate for all methods.
Head controls the mechanics of the Hips, as it does everything else.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
What's causing the differences you feel?
Different cues. (cues are mental ideas to help you get the technique down the most famous one is "pretend you are grinding a cigarette butt out")
If I turn the "right heel out" its the explosive sudden rotation. (that's cue 1)
If I "pretend there is a fist on my right hip and im trying to punch someone with my right hip" its the extremely heavy and powerful punch. (that's cue 2)
Those were 2 different ques given to me by two different people and they give 2 distinct and different feelings even though its the same movement, even though both cause my right foot to spin.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
When you watch most of the biggest and fastest punchers in boxing it becomes apparent that 99% of them are supporting the head as they punch rather than using it to build momentum.
Punching while supporting the head took me longer to get used to and i would say it can be more difficult to learn than jolt step type punching if your postures bad. however the benefits in terms of mobility, speed, power/strength and endurance are immense.
Also when you look at the biomechanics a punch supporting the head is pulled into the target rather than pushed. Which means when technique is perfect (bone allignment & muscle activation becomes a huge factor) your punch can be as strong as you make it rather than being limited to just your bodyweight/freefall momentum.
Thats just my take on it Scraps way of punching took me longer to learn because i have postural deviances as do 98% of the population. But having lived with the style a few year now its becoming involuntary i can say it was an investment the hard work and years of practicce its taken definently payed off. And the best thing is i can always go back to weight transfer punches when i feel the need, its not like im bound to the back foot for life.
This is what developing as a fighter is about, if you only invest your time into average , easy to learn techniques you will always be an average fighter. There are genetic freaks that just feel how to punch and get it right everytime, to keep the rest of us safe while in with them we have boxing fundamentals and techniques taught by trainers to help guide us to clarity and give us some of the attributes that the talented fighters seem to have naturally, but theres still no comparison.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Also supporting the head makes it easier to gain experiance in judging range and distance.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
If you want a "que" for the technique i would say think perfectly level rotation using every joint, muscle/appendage as levers.
Bottom line is though theres no simple cue that can make you punch the way the greats do, the greats punch the way they do because of a lack of ques and an abbundance of pro-preceptive capabilities that allows them to listen to their bodys more intensively than most..
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
What moves the head is the body, the head doesnt or should not move the body. When it does balance is lost.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
What moves the head is the body, the head doesnt or should not move the body. When it does balance is lost.
Scrap people are going to say this is boxing not ballet!how honestly how do you keep your head off the line of fire or miss punches without moving the headfirst?furthermore if you're off balance momentarily so what. Kenny Weldon's fighters fighters fought with their head over the knee, this included Evander Holyfield, Gerald McClellan and many more greats like Joe Frazier. what is the problem of being momentarily off-balance?
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
What moves the head is the body, the head doesnt or should not move the body. When it does balance is lost.
Scrap people are going to say this is boxing not ballet!how honestly how do you keep your head off the line of fire or miss punches without moving the headfirst?furthermore if you're off balance momentarily so what. Kenny Weldon's fighters fighters fought with their head over the knee, this included Evander Holyfield, Gerald McClellan and many more greats like Joe Frazier. what is the problem of being momentarily off-balance?
How do you move the head? By shifting weight and bending at the hips, a little at the knees. It's your lower body that moves the upper body. If you try to generate the movement from above your waist, you're leaning and breaking posture. An interesting example, I was having a conversation with a coach who has some experience working with spanish speaking students. When he told them (in spanish) to literally move their heads, they would just wiggle their heads around. He learned that to get them to do it right, he had to say what translates to "move your center".
Balance is one of the core fundamentals of fighting. It never benefits you to be off balance. There are times when you can get away with it, sure. But if you wanna learn based on stupid shit you can get away with sometimes you're gonna have a bad time.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
What moves the head is the body, the head doesnt or should not move the body. When it does balance is lost.
Scrap people are going to say this is boxing not ballet!how honestly how do you keep your head off the line of fire or miss punches without moving the headfirst?furthermore if you're off balance momentarily so what. Kenny Weldon's fighters fighters fought with their head over the knee, this included Evander Holyfield, Gerald McClellan and many more greats like Joe Frazier. what is the problem of being momentarily off-balance?
How do you move the head? By shifting weight and bending at the hips, a little at the knees. It's your lower body that moves the upper body. If you try to generate the movement from above your waist, you're leaning and breaking posture. An interesting example, I was having a conversation with a coach who has some experience working with spanish speaking students. When he told them (in spanish) to literally move their heads, they would just wiggle their heads around. He learned that to get them to do it right, he had to say what translates to "move your center".
Balance is one of the core fundamentals of fighting. It never benefits you to be off balance. There are times when you can get away with it, sure. But if you wanna learn based on stupid shit you can get away with sometimes you're gonna have a bad time.
How else would you get inside if you didn't lower your head? if you look at football players and rugby players even hockey players, Muay thai fighters they lower their heads to get inside.yes there off-balance temporarily.it's called entering the mouth of the lion.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
What moves the head is the body, the head doesnt or should not move the body. When it does balance is lost.
Scrap people are going to say this is boxing not ballet!how honestly how do you keep your head off the line of fire or miss punches without moving the headfirst?furthermore if you're off balance momentarily so what. Kenny Weldon's fighters fighters fought with their head over the knee, this included Evander Holyfield, Gerald McClellan and many more greats like Joe Frazier. what is the problem of being momentarily off-balance?
How do you move the head? By shifting weight and bending at the hips, a little at the knees. It's your lower body that moves the upper body. If you try to generate the movement from above your waist, you're leaning and breaking posture. An interesting example, I was having a conversation with a coach who has some experience working with spanish speaking students. When he told them (in spanish) to literally move their heads, they would just wiggle their heads around. He learned that to get them to do it right, he had to say what translates to "move your center".
Balance is one of the core fundamentals of fighting. It never benefits you to be off balance. There are times when you can get away with it, sure. But if you wanna learn based on stupid shit you can get away with sometimes you're gonna have a bad time.
How else would you get inside if you didn't lower your head? if you look at football players and rugby players even hockey players, Muay thai fighters they lower their heads to get inside.yes there off-balance temporarily.it's called entering the mouth of the lion.
Its called bending the knees.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
What moves the head is the body, the head doesnt or should not move the body. When it does balance is lost.
Scrap people are going to say this is boxing not ballet!how honestly how do you keep your head off the line of fire or miss punches without moving the headfirst?furthermore if you're off balance momentarily so what. Kenny Weldon's fighters fighters fought with their head over the knee, this included Evander Holyfield, Gerald McClellan and many more greats like Joe Frazier. what is the problem of being momentarily off-balance?
How do you move the head? By shifting weight and bending at the hips, a little at the knees. It's your lower body that moves the upper body. If you try to generate the movement from above your waist, you're leaning and breaking posture. An interesting example, I was having a conversation with a coach who has some experience working with spanish speaking students. When he told them (in spanish) to literally move their heads, they would just wiggle their heads around. He learned that to get them to do it right, he had to say what translates to "move your center".
Balance is one of the core fundamentals of fighting. It never benefits you to be off balance. There are times when you can get away with it, sure. But if you wanna learn based on stupid shit you can get away with sometimes you're gonna have a bad time.
How else would you get inside if you didn't lower your head? if you look at football players and rugby players even hockey players, Muay thai fighters they lower their heads to get inside.yes there off-balance temporarily.it's called entering the mouth of the lion.
Its called bending the knees.
Still going to get hit with that left hook unless you bend your knees and chin down!
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So this is for a standard boxing punch - I get the following 3 feelings when I use my hips.
1) I rotate my hips and it feels insanely fast and explosive, but not heavy or as heavy as 2
2) I rotate my hips and it feels very heavy and it is also very fast although not as fast and explosive/sudden as 1. It also is easiest to get the form correct with this one ie a full range of motion is easier, I can even do it from both left and right sides easily with this way. Its the most powerful way or at least feels that way.
3) It just feels light and slow and weak
So obviously I scrap 3. But I don't know if 2 or 1 is the correct form?
Its weird you would have thought you would only get one feeling from trying to rotate your hips the same way each time but I get 3 distinct feelings.
Im going with 2, but its odd that I can produce a more sudden more explosive burst that isn't as heavy.
No sure what you are talking about, but
1. there are several ways to throw same punches
2. Maybe!!!, but I am not sure by one, there is the ultimate technique to throw punches
3. In most cases, you gotta be faster than the opponent and deliver a blow with a force slightly higher than the KO/KD limit
if we take point 3 as a basic to develop the best technqiue, again, you can throw a punch using multiple techniques. It depends on your body type and current physical shape. We will write more about it at sugarboxing
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Scrap as you can see the great lamon Brewster is working the elbow and the knee is his form acceptable for throwing a body shot is this proper mechanics and most importantly could balance?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2h6E6cd8Y
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Scrap as you can see the great lamon Brewster is working the elbow and the knee is his form acceptable for throwing a body shot is this proper mechanics and most importantly could balance?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2h6E6cd8Y
That is not a good demonstration, He is giving.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Scrap as you can see the great lamon Brewster is working the elbow and the knee is his form acceptable for throwing a body shot is this proper mechanics and most importantly could balance?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2h6E6cd8Y
That is not a good demonstration, He is giving.
agree, LB technique is quite ugly
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Scrap as you can see the great lamon Brewster is working the elbow and the knee is his form acceptable for throwing a body shot is this proper mechanics and most importantly could balance?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2h6E6cd8Y
That is not a good demonstration, He is giving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NVSemin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Scrap as you can see the great lamon Brewster is working the elbow and the knee is his form acceptable for throwing a body shot is this proper mechanics and most importantly could balance?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2h6E6cd8Y
That is not a good demonstration, He is giving.
agree, LB technique is quite ugly
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Scrap as you can see the great lamon Brewster is working the elbow and the knee is his form acceptable for throwing a body shot is this proper mechanics and most importantly could balance?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rk2h6E6cd8Y
That is not a good demonstration, He is giving.
Right! LB isn't a high level coach. Fact. Scrap what is the correct bio-mechanics for this technique?
Don't agree with any of you, I think that's a great demonstration. It's exaggerated as hell of course, but a demonstration should be. He explains starting position, weight transfer, hip rotation and moving after even when you miss.
Re: Feeling 3 distinct feelings during hip rotation!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WayneFlint
Watch gerald mclellan, Hearns, Hagler, ezzard charles all punch supporting the head when power and speed is required, manny has the speed he has because he supports his head.
What do you mean exactly can you explain?
What moves the head is the body, the head doesnt or should not move the body. When it does balance is lost.
Scrap people are going to say this is boxing not ballet!how honestly how do you keep your head off the line of fire or miss punches without moving the headfirst?furthermore if you're off balance momentarily so what. Kenny Weldon's fighters fighters fought with their head over the knee, this included Evander Holyfield, Gerald McClellan and many more greats like Joe Frazier. what is the problem of being momentarily off-balance?
How do you move the head? By shifting weight and bending at the hips, a little at the knees. It's your lower body that moves the upper body. If you try to generate the movement from above your waist, you're leaning and breaking posture. An interesting example, I was having a conversation with a coach who has some experience working with spanish speaking students. When he told them (in spanish) to literally move their heads, they would just wiggle their heads around. He learned that to get them to do it right, he had to say what translates to "move your center".
Balance is one of the core fundamentals of fighting. It never benefits you to be off balance. There are times when you can get away with it, sure. But if you wanna learn based on stupid shit you can get away with sometimes you're gonna have a bad time.
How else would you get inside if you didn't lower your head? if you look at football players and rugby players even hockey players, Muay thai fighters they lower their heads to get inside.yes there off-balance temporarily.it's called entering the mouth of the lion.
Lowering your head doesn't mean you're off balance. Ever done a deadlift or squat???
Muay Thai fighters don't lower their heads to get inside, Thai style clinching is ALL about posture. If the other guy can break you down, you're gonna get your ass kicked. The most common entry is to reach inside punches (forearm block to biceps for example) then transition to collar ties or inside arm control. Occasionally guys will say slip outside a jab or parry it that way then step forward into a nice position. But they definitely don't lower their heads, and they DEFINITELY aren't off balance.
Your football and rugby examples don't work either. Those guys aren't off balance. You can't be to tackle somebody, if you are you bounce off.
This is just body mechanics. You should be able to move through the full range or motion of your hips and knees in perfect balance from your stance. If not, your stance is either wrong or you have movement pattern dysfunctions that need to be addressed.
Heres a clip of nicolino Locche moving his head without moving the knees. I fought guys who move the head instead of bending the knees they ain't easy to hit.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWuBdlEPOzo
