Roy Jones at 168 was the perfect fighter IMO. Fastest hands P4P with legit KO power in both hands, DAMN
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Roy Jones at 168 was the perfect fighter IMO. Fastest hands P4P with legit KO power in both hands, DAMN
Roy was a near perfect ATHLETE, not a perfect fighter.
Big, big difference, as evidenced when he slowed.
Love Roy, but by no means was he the ultimate boxer.
Ali was not a perfect boxer either but he the greatest heavyweight champion ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoMight
Roy was breathtaking and showed a great athlete can beat a great boxer(s) Toney and Hopkins.
You're right, Ali wasn't a perfect boxer, but we found out once he athleticism faded about his mental and physical toughness, if not boxer... he was a near perfect 'fighter'Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli was not a perfect boxer either but he the greatest heavyweight champion ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoMight
Roy was breathtaking and showed a great athlete can beat a great boxer(s) Toney and Hopkins.
Probably not. He stopped Virgil Hill with a body shot!
Y'all musta forgot!
There will always be guys who think they can duplicate another's style but what made Jones special was reflex, instinct and athletic speed in buckets, but he wasn't perfect in fundamentals and unfortunately he could not master a second skin-adapt when it all caught up. He's training Jessie Vargas now and on the Manny v Algeiri undercard he looked like he had bulked up..was trying to emulate Roy to the T in the late rounds.
Roy Jones Jr.
A 'special' boxer, but his Star faded fast.
His career was long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Yeah after 15 years of (virtually) undefeated boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Meh, people hark on technique too much I think. Virtuosos in any field often get away with breaking the rules, often that's what makes them great. Roy had the technique, he was an olympic gold medalist (fuck South Korea), but he was a freak athlete who was able to make up his own rules to great results.Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoMight
Roy's boxing technique and skill was off the charts. A better example of a technically flawed guy was Prince Naseem, who would throw himself off balance with his power shots and get tangled up with the other guy all the time. Roy was never off balance, could throw power shots and blistering combos from any angle, going forward or backwards. Pure poetry in motion. He was sound fundamentally for sure.
IMO there willl always be great fghters every so often, but it wil be unique to their own heavan-given talents.
There will only be one Ray Robinson.
One Joe Louis
One Rocky Marciano
One Cassius Clay
One Pernell Whittaker
One Julio Cesar Chavez
One Roy Jones Jr .
& Yes, one Floyd Mayweather who has won 18 years, without a loss added to his record, never dropped to a knee or on his back, just a standing 8 from a glove scraping the canvas.
Even though RJJ has several high profile names he didnt fight, & was dropped by Honey Boy Devalle in his prime, there hasnt been a reflex master with twitch muscle movement like his IMO, 4 left hooks in a row???!!! Freak like talents.
No there will never be anothr RJJ, but there will be other greats to come!
I think the Roy Jones of 1990 to 1996 beats the living shit out of everyone who thinks they are the GOTY between 195 lbs to 154 lbs. Just no competition.
Roy was the most talented fighter I have ever seen. Unlike most, I feel that Roy did learn the basics bust instinctively knew that fighting in an unorthodox manner would be more effective for him. Roy's career is a disappointment to me, however, as I feel that he was too good of a businessman n missed the fights that would've sealed his legacy.
I can throw 4 left hooks in a row, always have been able to do that, since I was 12 or 13, and I'm 50 now. I once saw Schoolboy Ramirez- he was 66-10 at the time- throw more than 40 left hand punches in a row in a fight at the Forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
That said, when you talk about RJJ, you don't pick the right things to be impressed by (4 hooks in a row is easy) but you don't see how he cheated himself. He had tremendous natural gifts and the chances of those being replicated by somebody that chooses to exercise them in the same way are slim. Those gifts led him to ignore the basics, after a point because there is no denying that his father schooled him well, and that cost him later.
As to if he was the 'greatest', no, no way. Ezzard Charles fought from 160 to HW and he'd beat Jones all the way, so would guys like Conn, or Burley or Moore, and others. It is just silly- just makes me laugh- the 'he was the fastest ever' nonsense. Have you seen everybody else? There were no fast guys before? Heavens...And, you know, smart guys neutralize your gifts. RJJ was so concerned with his gifts that he never learned that, and he fought mostly dumb guys and old guys.
I have thought for years now that Toney thought Jones would be easy, and he was struggling with weight and didn't worry enough. Then he got in the ring, knowing he could do 12 rounds in his sleep,and thinking that Jones (chin in the air hands at his hips) would be easy. But the speed suprised him and he wasn't mentally prepared to work. At that, while RJJ clearly won the fight, he didn't beat up Toney; the KD was more a shoulder block than a punch. I just wish Toney would have taken the fight seriously- he didn't even run into the ring- or that RJJ would have fought him at 175 or 190. Then I wouldn't have had to hear this Jones is God nonsense for all these years.
I think it is unlikely that Roy Jones will be born again or clone himself. It is a possibility, but I assume that kind of thing is very, very rare. Even Jesus is having a very hard time with that, so I can only assume it will be equally difficult for Roy too.
People can rate or disregard Roy as much as they like because in most ways I can see their point of view however, I am in no doubt whatsoever that there is no one (bar none) in history that can use their bodies quite like Roy could.
That combination of balance, speed and power - with his typical form, as consistent as it was over 12 whole rounds; was quite a thing to behold.
I mean, if he wasn't the most athletic (fighter ever), he was certainly the most balletic, that's for sure!
None of the poll options are correct.
The law of entropy determines that there will always be a recurrence of a similar or better fighter than has already been.
That aside, Roy Jones's style is based around split second timing, lightening speed and outstanding reflexes.
These qualities will of course manifest themselves again and again as they are staples of boxing. An amazing natural talent simply need to meet early, sustained, quality training.
Already, David Haye is basically a longer/heftier version of Jones!
And of course Jones was special, such a combination represents probably the sharpest of all boxing skills combined, in my opinion.
Very true, fast flexible and totally relaxed made for no need to let his hands go they are out there already and some wild strides and risks others wouldnt get away with.Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoMight
Great fun to see, we were privileged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Pffft.
Roy Jones' ability to mobilise and stabilise his body with far greater exertion and control than any, is what makes him uniquely special.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
David Haye is relatively clumsy in that regard. Poor comparison.
Max Power mussa forgot... SMH :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Max oh Max. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Pffft.
They stole his gold medal in South Korea, let's look back at his whole career
There has been no one like and and there will never be anyone like him. Roy is unique.
I'd like to see someone do a film study of Roy Jones, showing his boxing skills, for those of us who think he just had athleticism and reflexes.
Well I for one...truly feel I hold RJJ in the proper light, which is why I stated that while there will never be another RJJ, there will also never be another (please see first paragraph-as I never claimed RJJ was better than JCC, to PBF fighters before there era, let alone fighters after ther eras.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldI can throw 4 left hooks in a row, always have been able to do that, since I was 12 or 13, and I'm 50 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
When did you do this in a championship fight? I could probably throw 214 in a row, but until one does it in a championship fight, then it appears you have miscontrued my point, no major...
I once saw Schoolboy Ramirez- he was 66-10 at the time- throw more than 40 left hand punches in a row in a fight at the Forum.
That said, when you talk about RJJ, you don't pick the right things to be impressed by ..
So will you pick the right right things and I will take it from there--as below you state he had tremendous gifts, but I fail to see you name them... or who he used it against and how it went down, so please break it down!
(4 hooks in a row is easy) but you don't see how he cheated himself.
If not on this thread there have been many posts where I stated he relied on talent, so by the time his reflexes faded he had no skills that could've allowed him to survive as long as an Archie Moore or a Bhop.
He had tremendous natural gifts and the chances of those being replicated by somebody that chooses to exercise them in the same way are slim.
Sounds similar to what I said above....there hasnt been a reflex master with twitch muscle movement like his IMO...
Those gifts led him to ignore the basics, after a point because there is no denying that his father schooled him well, and that cost him later.
As to if he was the 'greatest', no, no way.
Tell that to the other posters here who said that, I don't see me makin the claim he was the greatest, if so , highlight it and I will acknowledge it
Ezzard Charles fought from 160 to HW and he'd beat Jones all the way, so would guys like Conn, or Burley or Moore, and others. It is just silly- just makes me laugh- the 'he was the fastest ever' nonsense.
I mentioned his talents as a reflex master, not sure why you are adressing me with comments that it is silly and makes you laugh that he was the...fastest ever. If I said that please highlight it, bold it underline it..
Have you seen everybody else?
Yes I have, in fact I named several at the top of my post and stated each one has unique talents, in fact several posters {liked it}
There were no fast guys before?
Sure there were and will always be. Ray Robinson for one, Ray Leonard another, Pac & PBF just to name a few. Once again, I dont recall stating RJJ's greatest talents was that he was the fastest ever.
Heavens...And, you know, smart guys neutralize your gifts. RJJ was so concerned with his gifts that he never learned that, and he fought mostly dumb guys and old guys.
Now it sounds like you are belittling RJJ, first you stated his pop schooled him, now you stated Roy never learned...certain things like smart guys who neutralize your gifts, then after that you stated he fought dumb guys, sorry sir, I'm confused about these statements.
I have thought for years now that Toney thought Jones would be easy, and he was struggling with weight and didn't worry enough. Then he got in the ring, knowing he could do 12 rounds in his sleep,and thinking that Jones (chin in the air hands at his hips) would be easy. But the speed suprised him and he wasn't mentally prepared to work.
A few sentences before you seem to question RJJ'speed, but here you praise it...
At that, while RJJ clearly won the fight, he didn't beat up Toney; the KD was more a shoulder block than a punch. I just wish Toney would have taken the fight seriously- he didn't even run into the ring- or that RJJ would have fought him at 175 or 190. Then I wouldn't have had to hear this Jones is God nonsense for all these years.
Why did Roy fade when his speed and reflexes slowed? Was it because he didn't have the fundamentals to fall back on?
Great question.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Of course, he was never a tight in balance fighter he went in and thought he could do what he always did which was move when striking and choose angles at will. He couldnt do that as well later carrying weight and less so the older and less fit he got. Where as if he went back to basics he would of had survival skills that would of kept him out of trouble so he could choose when and where to go loopy and all out on someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Still loved his style though. Like Naz they were like shooting stars. Nice to behold,erratic,flamboyant , all or nothing, burn out faster. Then theres other stars.
Great points.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreOf course, he was never a tight in balance fighter he went in and thought he could do what he always did which was move when striking and choose angles at will. He couldnt do that as well later carrying weight and less so the older and less fit he got. Where as if he went back to basics he would of had survival skills that would of kept him out of trouble so he could choose when and where to go loopy and all out on someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Still loved his style though. Like Naz they were like shooting stars. Nice to behold,erratic,flamboyant , all or nothing, burn out faster. Then theres other stars.
Question do you remember when RJJ was accussed of taking roids? androstenedione, is contained in GNC's Ripped Fuel. I think he tested positive once.
I wonder, because RJJ only had one stoppage of note IMO afterwards- Harding, after that maybe two stoppages in ten years?:-\
I believe in the common saying (the last thing to leave is one's power) his physique softened and he doesnt eat bad food, doesnt do drugs or alcohol. So he lost his muscle mass, physique and his youth succumbed to father time leaving RJJ with...:eek:
What do you think would have happened if Roy learned the fundamentals? Would he have had more success after the Ruiz fight?
I mean, Ali was able to adapt when his speed faded. Floyd adjusted his style when he moved up to the higher weights.
Point noted. Above I questioned how his body deteriorated post use of Ripped Fuel, but my badd you just made me remember he went in thick as a CW fighting a HW. Could it have really just been the drastic weight loss to move back down to fight Tarver that hurt him more than anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Naw, Appearently Jr. didn't turn out the same as Sr. Jr. kids are going into hip hop no Jr. III's for the ring.
Roy Jones Jr.'s boys keep it real on the farm - ESPN
I like how people bring up the fact that he got whipped when he got older as some kind of proof that he had no skills and was all athletics.
Have you people seen SRR past 35? Pernell Whitaker? Ray Leonard?
Think you are taking it to the extreme, no one is saying NO skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I think he had outrageous skills. Ones others could'nt deal with, but they were limited and tied to his fitness and reflexes that is all.
I get what people are saying, Roy got used to being the fastest, smartest guy in the ring and the style that he developed depended on him being the athletic marvel he was. I just get irked when people insinuate that he never had the skills to begin with, or that he was technically flawed and just used his athleticism to carry him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Guys who try to get by on their athletics get exposed quick on the world stage, we all know that. They don't win gold medals and go 15 years as an undefeated p4p great. Not saying that's what you're saying, but I see a lot of people saying that kind of shit. And you know what?? THEY MUSTA FORGOT
Yeah for sure , I think what Greynotsoold and others agree on is that technically the style wouldnt hold up on its own.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI get what people are saying, Roy got used to being the fastest, smartest guy in the ring and the style that he developed depended on him being the athletic marvel he was. I just get irked when people insinuate that he never had the skills to begin with, or that he was technically flawed and just used his athleticism to carry him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Guys who try to get by on their athletics get exposed quick on the world stage, we all know that. They don't win gold medals and go 15 years as an undefeated p4p great. Not saying that's what you're saying, but I see a lot of people saying that kind of shit. And you know what?? THEY MUSTA FORGOT
I can dig that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre