Does anybody care about the Cruiserweight division?

I saw two posters talking about who the greatest CW of all time was - Evander Holyfield - and I realized I didn't have any point to argue because I could care less out the CW division, historically or present day.

Now, I'm not saying the CWs can't be good to great fighters, and I'm not saying CW fights can't be good, exciting bouts worth watching.

I just have a problem with it philosophically. I always saw it as a division for people too big for (or two lazy to cut down to) LHW but too scared to get in there with the big boys. If you fight at the 200 limit, you're walking around at at least 210lbs. I reckon most are 215-220. Some no doubt walk around at close to or above 230. If you're that big, why not fight in the money division? Why toil away in a division no one seems to care about?

I think the division stinks, it should be abolished and those bums should be forced to cut to 175 or fight HWs. What says you??

I think it's just thinning out an already thin HW division.

It was fun a few years ago with O'Neil Bell, Mormeck, David Haye, Guillermo Jones, Darnell Wilson, Kelvin Something n Enzo Mac n cheese, etc.

It was even fun with Thomas Adamek recently as champ, but now I couldn't name any of the champs outside of maybe Huck n Jones if they are still there?

It's gone to shit.

No

Cruiserweights, for sure.

The Cruiserweight division is a division, just like any other division. It features big strong boxers which are all approximately the same size, well-rounded skilled and all extremely athletic (as opposed to the HW division where they come in all shapes and sizes and various traits).

There is nothing bad about it, and it is thoroughly perplexing why anyone should think that a weight-class is "bad" or "good".

It MUST obviously stay, it was introduced for a reason.

A better question would be, when should we introduce the NEXT weight class (like I dunno, "Super-Cruiser" or something lol)

The only problem with the Cruiser division imo, is that when it was introduced and then later modified, it has since caused IMMENSE confusion on what it means to be a "Heavyweight" and has led to many illegitimate comparisons of ancient HW's to current HW's even though they have absolutely nothing in common except for the fact that they were at different points in time, nominally CALLED "HW's".

Some argue that amateur boxing got it correct by making the new weight class beyond HW (Super-HW) as this avoided the confusion.

Was of a division... the guys there very rarely compete with the LH's, and when they go to HW they don't do any better than someone that could have started off as a HW OR a LH.

Sure, we had Evander Holyfield. But we also had Michael Moorer, Muhammad Ali and a host of other LH's that did much more from coming from 175.

Just abolish it. But they won't. Because of sanctioning fees, etc. The only man worth watching at CW is Marco Huck- and I wish that Huck and Adonis Stevenson hook it up!!!

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Was of a division... the guys there very rarely compete with the LH's, and when they go to HW they don't do any better than someone that could have started off as a HW OR a LH.

Sure, we had Evander Holyfield. But we also had Michael Moorer, Muhammad Ali and a host of other LH's that did much more from coming from 175.

Just abolish it. But they won't. Because of sanctioning fees, etc. The only man worth watching at CW is Marco Huck- and I wish that Huck and Adonis Stevenson hook it up!!!

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That's a silly opinion. How many light heavies or below have climbed their way into HW competitiveness? Moorer, Byrd, Adamek, Toney and not many others.

In Ali's time the average boxer at HW was only 200lbs (Cruiser). So that doesn't really count. It didn';t make sense to have a CW division then, but it does now.

What do you mean Michael Moorer accomplished more at HW than Holyfield?

He was a champ sure but he did F/A compared with Holyfield.

If haters can just put it aside for a moment they would be forced to agree that David Haye is right up there as well, don't try to tell me he isn't skilled.

Eddie Chambers, yeah a real punch bag that guy!

Mormeck was good.

There are plenty of good boxers at Cruiser and always has been. The CW division is the natural launch pad for smaller fighters to enter the HW division where the cash is, this possibly causes an emigration of the best fighters from Cruiser to Heavy beyond their natural weight class.

Take away Cruiser, and this^ will apply to the LHW division again, as it did previously and it's the same situation except the boxers who step up would have to build/fatten up even FURTHER from their natural weight if they want to compete at HW. A deplorable situation.

Cruiser must stay. Obviously.

A "super-cruiser" division is just around the corner.

Has some of the most entertaining fighters in it and has had some of the best fights over the last few years. Far better then a lot of divisions out there.

cruiserweight division has not been good really ever. i think that we need the division but i think that the real good fighters usually skip cruiser from LHW or at least take a very short stop there to get to HW. maybe its just the fact that the fighters understand that cruiser isnt a popular weight class so they dont want to stick around.

Holyfield ruled it. David Haye did for a bit but otherwise not a brilliant division but I do care about it.

Of course I care.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

The Cruiserweight division is a division, just like any other division.

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Thanks, Plato! I agree though, it's a lot more legitimate than any of the Jr or super divisions at the lower weights when you think about it. The difference between a LHW and HW can be nearly 100 pounds! Not fair to accuse these guys of being scared to move up and not have the same opinion about 154 or 168 pounders or anyone else. All they are doing is cutting weight and fighting against guys about their size, just as everyone save for the HWs do. If a guy can make cruiser comfortably, that makes him a MUCH smaller man than someone like Wladimir is. As far as body weight percentage, its the equivalent of expecting a featherweight to fight a middleweight.

It has no prestige, history or champions.

The problem is, it's a bit of an"inbetweeny" division, but you can't scrap it because the HW's are so big nowadays , there has to be something there. Dare I say, perhaps there should be either/or both of;
1. A division between LHW and CW, because the gap is too big to step up naturally.
2. A HW and a SUPER HW division. This means some CW's could move up to HW as they won't be dwarfed.
Before everybody replies with "not more fucking divisions!" , perhaps some of the lower weight divisions should be scrapped or integrate? In this day and age Men are naturally bigger than they were 20 , 30 or 40 years ago. The lower weights are probably pretty dangerous health wise as well.
I mean, let's be fair the quality of the smaller fighters is brilliant, but what does a 5,6,7 or 8 weight World Champion mean? It's bollocks really.

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

The problem is, it's a bit of an"inbetweeny" division, but you can't scrap it because the HW's are so big nowadays , there has to be something there. Dare I say, perhaps there should be either/or both of;
1. A division between LHW and CW, because the gap is too big to step up naturally.
2. A HW and a SUPER HW division. This means some CW's could move up to HW as they won't be dwarfed.
Before everybody replies with "not more fucking divisions!" , perhaps some of the lower weight divisions should be scrapped or integrate? In this day and age Men are naturally bigger than they were 20 , 30 or 40 years ago. The lower weights are probably pretty dangerous health wise as well.
I mean, let's be fair the quality of the smaller fighters is brilliant, but what does a 5,6,7 or 8 weight World Champion mean? It's bollocks really.

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There is no need or demand for 17 divisions, 3 is enough, 8 is great.
50% of divisions need to be scrapped

The cruisers have to feel like the ugly daughter standing next to the prom queen for the family photo. Though today the 'massive' heavyweight division isn't exactly making noise and covering itself in glory either??? Its always been a bit of a transition point for smaller heavy's chasing the money, fame or just growing quick. They cannot all be Holyfield, or even Orlin Norris for that matter. Really if we're knocking off divisions we can start with all this Jr or Spr stuff. Especially considering a fair amount of guys today don't even stick to it and require catchweights for no reason whatsoever! Thinking about it, a guy under the radar is Mchunu Thabiso at cruiser and I think he is one of the best pure boxers going today.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

The cruisers have to feel like the ugly daughter standing next to the prom queen for the family photo. Though today the 'massive' heavyweight division isn't exactly making noise and covering itself in glory either??? Its always been a bit of a transition point for smaller heavy's chasing the money, fame or just growing quick. They cannot all be Holyfield, or even Orlin Norris for that matter. Really if we're knocking off divisions we can start with all this Jr or Spr stuff. Especially considering a fair amount of guys today don't even stick to it and require catchweights for no reason whatsoever! Thinking about it, a guy under the radar is Mchunu Thabiso at cruiser and I think he is one of the best pure boxers going today.

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I agree that if you want to eliminate diviions, the ones that should be targeted are the "inbetween" divisions definitely!

I will reiterate something important. The division immediately before HW, will ALWAYS be a launch pad division for the best guys in it to turn HW later for more money even if it isn't their natural weight.

There is nothing wrong with the cruiser division at all, if it's eliminated, the LHW division again becomes the launch pad except it's too far a gap these days to breach from 175. Cruiser class is absolutely necessary, and soon, an even heavier class will be established, Cruiser will be a normal division and the new class will become the HW launch pad for smaller fighters and guys will be complaining about THAT division then.

I like the division :-X it's just a matter of making decent fights ;) Toney-Jirov was at Cruiser and was fantastic :D

The division has got some good talent (Hernandez, Huck, Drozd, Lebedev, Chakhkiev, Mchunu, Makabu) and quality fights are in the works ;)

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

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Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

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140, 130, 122, 115, 108 and 105 are a waste ;) lets go back to 8 :cool:

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

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Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

---

Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

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You may have a case for eliminating Jr. divisions but not cruiser.

There will be a "super-cruiser" or something in time when it becomes necessary.

You can no longer expect light-HW's at 175 to make the enormous jump into the HW division where the average boxer is now 235-240lbs. That is a jump of 60lbs!

I see an appreciable level of talent at Cruiser and there have been excellent boxers come out of that division exclusively.

The division prior to HW will always be a launch pad for HW, it's just how it plays out.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

---

Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

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You may have a case for eliminating Jr. divisions but not cruiser.

There will be a "super-cruiser" or something in time when it becomes necessary.

You can no longer expect light-HW's at 175 to make the enormous jump into the HW division where the average boxer is now 235-240lbs. That is a jump of 60lbs!

I see an appreciable level of talent at Cruiser and there have been excellent boxers come out of that division exclusively.

The division prior to HW will always be a launch pad for HW, it's just how it plays out.

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Then we should adjust the weight limit of the LH's... A middle fighting at Super Middle is fine. A Middle at LH can work over time. But there really is no difference in size and ability of a 175 guy and a 185 guy. No difference.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

---

Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

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You may have a case for eliminating Jr. divisions but not cruiser.

There will be a "super-cruiser" or something in time when it becomes necessary.

You can no longer expect light-HW's at 175 to make the enormous jump into the HW division where the average boxer is now 235-240lbs. That is a jump of 60lbs!

I see an appreciable level of talent at Cruiser and there have been excellent boxers come out of that division exclusively.

The division prior to HW will always be a launch pad for HW, it's just how it plays out.

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LMFAO Dawson would be killed in the ring against the likes of Lebedev, Chakhiev, Huck. Huck went toe to toe with Povetkin, a top 5 heavy FFS

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

---

Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

---

You may have a case for eliminating Jr. divisions but not cruiser.

There will be a "super-cruiser" or something in time when it becomes necessary.

You can no longer expect light-HW's at 175 to make the enormous jump into the HW division where the average boxer is now 235-240lbs. That is a jump of 60lbs!

I see an appreciable level of talent at Cruiser and there have been excellent boxers come out of that division exclusively.

The division prior to HW will always be a launch pad for HW, it's just how it plays out.

---

Then we should adjust the weight limit of the LH's... A middle fighting at Super Middle is fine. A Middle at LH can work over time. But there really is no difference in size and ability of a 175 guy and a 185 guy. No difference.

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What about the other 15 pounds :confused:

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

---

Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

---

You may have a case for eliminating Jr. divisions but not cruiser.

There will be a "super-cruiser" or something in time when it becomes necessary.

You can no longer expect light-HW's at 175 to make the enormous jump into the HW division where the average boxer is now 235-240lbs. That is a jump of 60lbs!

I see an appreciable level of talent at Cruiser and there have been excellent boxers come out of that division exclusively.

The division prior to HW will always be a launch pad for HW, it's just how it plays out.

---

Then we should adjust the weight limit of the LH's... A middle fighting at Super Middle is fine. A Middle at LH can work over time. But there really is no difference in size and ability of a 175 guy and a 185 guy. No difference.

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my god your posts just get worse and worse. First of all. LHW is 175. Cruiser is 200. The size difference is pretty similar if not more then a MW and a LHW, which is 3 divisions compared to 2. Second of all abolishing the Cruiser would mean a guy would jump from fighting 175 pound guys to 240+ which again is stupid. So you make the change to 185 or 190. Its still a big jump but possibly acceptable but what do the poor super middleweights then do? Jump from 168 to 190? Cmon man think before you speak.

The obvious eliminations are the jr divisions. Jr Fly, Jr Bantom and Jr Feather are unneccessary for me and just makes winning belts in multi weight classes easy and pretty meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

---

Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

---

You may have a case for eliminating Jr. divisions but not cruiser.

There will be a "super-cruiser" or something in time when it becomes necessary.

You can no longer expect light-HW's at 175 to make the enormous jump into the HW division where the average boxer is now 235-240lbs. That is a jump of 60lbs!

I see an appreciable level of talent at Cruiser and there have been excellent boxers come out of that division exclusively.

The division prior to HW will always be a launch pad for HW, it's just how it plays out.

---

Then we should adjust the weight limit of the LH's... A middle fighting at Super Middle is fine. A Middle at LH can work over time. But there really is no difference in size and ability of a 175 guy and a 185 guy. No difference.

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my god your posts just get worse and worse. First of all. LHW is 175. Cruiser is 200. The size difference is pretty similar if not more then a MW and a LHW, which is 3 divisions compared to 2. Second of all abolishing the Cruiser would mean a guy would jump from fighting 175 pound guys to 240+ which again is stupid. So you make the change to 185 or 190. Its still a big jump but possibly acceptable but what do the poor super middleweights then do? Jump from 168 to 190? Cmon man think before you speak.

The obvious eliminations are the jr divisions. Jr Fly, Jr Bantom and Jr Feather are unneccessary for me and just makes winning belts in multi weight classes easy and pretty meaningless.

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I can only agree with SilkyJoe.

The Jr. divisions are pretty meaningless now, basically undermined by guys fighting very often now at catchweights.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

There is no great difference between a Great Cruiser and a Great LH that is 5 or 6 pounds overweight at fight night.

It's a waste of a division...

---

Oh so you don't think that Cruisers come in shape now?

What about the cruisers that come in around 210-215lbs at fight night? O'Neil Bell, Mormeck?

Are they just LightHeavies who tuck a few extra hamburgers in overnight too?

First the HW division is overweight, now the cruisers are too?

GTFOOH!

---

Talent wise... I would put Chad Dawson up against any Cruiser- and Dawson is on his downslide- and he would be no better or worst fighting a good LH. Punch power, skill, speed and stamina.

The weight classes are due a revision... and while we are at it, the 135 to 147 weight divisions are being abused.

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The same talented Dawson who came in 202 lbs a fight before last, and then was out punched and even outboxed in spots but the world renowned Tommy Karpency ;D