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Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
I think we can nominate Stiverne as rivaling the caliber of Leon Neon Spinks and Buster Douglas as a HW Champ.
No excuses, I like Stiverne, but he did seem a bit "out of it" (maybe because of eating so many straight rights from the big punching Wilder) but did you see his non-existent footwork after round 6? He stood squared-up, no head movement, never even tried to duck under any shots that I saw, didn't make a fuck of a lotta sense to me.
The fat shit looked woefully out of shape to me as well, pudgy, sluggish, waddling like a duck.
Pudgy, sluggish, waddling like a duck. Seriously, wtf? happened to him? he's right he was "flat"----
though I would say more like "fat" bwahaha
How hard did this dude train for Wilder? You're going in against a chiseled 29 year old Adonis with a big cock and a small head, shoulders like Atlas, 32 KOs------ Stiverne looked like he was in the shape to fight a buffet table at an all-you-can-eat Mexican restaurant.
bad conditioning, and even WORSE FIGHT PLAN.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
He looked in better shape on the scales for this fight than he did against Arreola. Exactly the same weight as the Arreola rematch but about 10lbs lighter than the first fight!
I have a feeling you backed Stiverne because he reminded you of older days fighters (bat the skill) but you have been backing the wrong horse.
He fought and looked no different in this fight than any other. He just happened to fight someone who could jab and move.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
I think it's fair to say that Bermane is not going to go down as an all time great heavyweight champion, he seems to me to be a decent solid journeyman who (to some extent) lucked out by being in the right place at the right time to benefit from some boxing politics and a shocking lack of depth in the division. None of that is his fault, of course.
If you look back through boxing history, he is not the only solid pro who found himself in a position beyond his wildest dreams.
You can make an argument that several tough journeymen found themselves as 'champions', such as James J Braddock, Tim Witherspoon, Trevor Berbick and others.
I think these guys, and Stiverne, are slightly different from Leon Spinks and Buster Douglas. They were fighters who produced one (and only one) magnificent career defining performance at just the right time, and against someone who was ready to be taken. You might add Gene Tunney and Bonecrusher Smith etc to that list.
There is another category of fighter, such as Primo Carnera, Nikolai Valuev but I won't go into that here!.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I think it's fair to say that Bermane is not going to go down as an all time great heavyweight champion, he seems to me to be a decent solid journeyman who (to some extent) lucked out by being in the right place at the right time to benefit from some boxing politics and a shocking lack of depth in the division. None of that is his fault, of course.
If you look back through boxing history, he is not the only solid pro who found himself in a position beyond his wildest dreams.
You can make an argument that several tough journeymen found themselves as 'champions', such as James J Braddock, Tim Witherspoon, Trevor Berbick and others.
I think these guys, and Stiverne, are slightly different from Leon Spinks and Buster Douglas. They were fighters who produced one (and only one) magnificent career defining performance at just the right time, and against someone who was ready to be taken. You might add Gene Tunney and Bonecrusher Smith etc to that list.
There is another category of fighter, such as Primo Carnera, Nikolai Valuev but I won't go into that here!.
Good post!
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
I think it's fair to say that Bermane is not going to go down as an all time great heavyweight champion, he seems to me to be a decent solid journeyman who (to some extent) lucked out by being in the right place at the right time to benefit from some boxing politics and a shocking lack of depth in the division. None of that is his fault, of course.
If you look back through boxing history, he is not the only solid pro who found himself in a position beyond his wildest dreams.
You can make an argument that several tough journeymen found themselves as 'champions', such as James J Braddock, Tim Witherspoon, Trevor Berbick and others.
I think these guys, and Stiverne, are slightly different from Leon Spinks and Buster Douglas. They were fighters who produced one (and only one) magnificent career defining performance at just the right time, and against someone who was ready to be taken. You might add Gene Tunney and Bonecrusher Smith etc to that list.
There is another category of fighter, such as Primo Carnera, Nikolai Valuev but I won't go into that here!.
Good post!
witherspoon wasnt a jouneyman
thing is with so many titles stiverne has the opportunity to be "world champ"
theres been worse champions tho
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Well I think you have to automatically put those guys above Stiverne because Leon beat Ali, Buster beat Tyson and Stiverne beat Chris Arreola HAHAHA ;D;D;D
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Does the man make the belt or the belt make the man? It really makes no difference who would have won Saturday. Stiverne was a paperweight and that's what the WBC has been since Vitali vacated. Wilder is now that paperweight. You guys may have that American heavyweight title holder but he's not the heavyweight champion. Lets see if he makes it real. Take Fury as the optional he is entitled to and then make the Wlad fight. Beat Wlad and then you can call yourself heavyweight champion.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
I can see why you would say Witherspoon wasn't a journeyman. I'm not insulting these guys at all, but I do wonder whether Tim would have risen quite as far as he did if he was fighting in the 30s or the 70s. The early 1980s weren't halcyon days for the heavyweight division.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
No one could be worse than Douglas. This is what happens with newly crowned champions... they enjoy their money for a little while and forget to train up for the fights ahead.
Same thing happened to Vernon Forrest, Buster Douglas, Neon Leon, Shannon Briggs, Lennox Lewis the first time around, and a host of others....
I felt kinda bad for Stiverne being matched with Wilder for his first defence. Should have given him a much more beatable opponent...
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Losing to an in shape 6'7 power puncher doesn't make him bad.
If we're going by fighters who lost the belt quickly then the 1980's has quite a few of those.
Remember 1990's Tyson beat Bruce Seldon who won a vacant title & took 10 rounds to stop joe hipp, then got dropped by what punch from tyson?
Stiverne cant be worse than that.
He got beat by a fighter that will make u look bad.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
No one could be worse than Douglas. This is what happens with newly crowned champions... they enjoy their money for a little while and forget to train up for the fights ahead.
Same thing happened to Vernon Forrest, Buster Douglas, Neon Leon, Shannon Briggs, Lennox Lewis the first time around, and a host of others....
I felt kinda bad for Stiverne being matched with Wilder for his first defence. Should have given him a much more beatable opponent...
He fought Manswall and knocked him out in 2 and won,
The WBC International (because "world" is not enough)
The WBC USA Title
and The WBA Fedelatin title(because there are so many Latino heavyweights)
He unfortunately missed out on the Oceana version, the Paba, Fedecentro, Fedecaribre, Europe and Africa. To many belts, to little time.
He then beat Austin for the second place errrr silver WBC which somehow set up a full title eliminator with Arreola in defense of the silver or in layman's terms the right to be called #1 contender for a vacant belt. Then and I'm sure it has nothing to do with Arreolas relationship with the Sulaiman family Chris gets to fight the guy he just lost to for the WBC full title. Once Stiverne slabbed him, the WBC then forced the mandatory on him. Had Chris won, Mexico would have declared a National holiday and Chris would have been fighting optionals until retirement.
Confused? I am and I just typed it.
Anyway Bermane had to fight him.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
No one could be worse than Douglas. This is what happens with newly crowned champions... they enjoy their money for a little while and forget to train up for the fights ahead.
Same thing happened to Vernon Forrest, Buster Douglas, Neon Leon, Shannon Briggs, Lennox Lewis the first time around, and a host of others....
I felt kinda bad for Stiverne being matched with Wilder for his first defence. Should have given him a much more beatable opponent...
Some here claimed wilder fought 32 tomato cans...how much easier of a contender did he need? LOL.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
I give Wilder full credit, he won the fight cleanly and lop-sidedly. On another note, Wilder seems to generally suck. Whenever Stiverne teed-off on Wilder, he seemed to lose his balance on them skinny lil' legs pretty easily. If Stiverne wasnt such a waddling duck, if he could have thrown 4 or 5 punch combos on steady feet, Wilder;s chin was wide open for a KO.
Any decent HW like Klit, or even Haye, would KO the bum. Make no bones about it---
WILDER IS A BUM. and we just found out that Stiverne is even more of a bum.
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Compare who they beat to get the belt to who Stiverne beat.
Compare who beat them to who beat Stiverne.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
I give Wilder full credit, he won the fight cleanly and lop-sidedly. On another note, Wilder seems to generally suck. Whenever Stiverne teed-off on Wilder, he seemed to lose his balance on them skinny lil' legs pretty easily. If Stiverne wasnt such a waddling duck, if he could have thrown 4 or 5 punch combos on steady feet, Wilder;s chin was wide open for a KO.
Any decent HW like Klit, or even Haye, would KO the bum. Make no bones about it---
WILDER IS A BUM. and we just found out that Stiverne is even more of a bum.
Then call him king of the HW's aka (BUMS) Then that makes Wlad the Emperor of them LOL!
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
No one could be worse than Douglas. This is what happens with newly crowned champions... they enjoy their money for a little while and forget to train up for the fights ahead.
Same thing happened to Vernon Forrest, Buster Douglas, Neon Leon, Shannon Briggs, Lennox Lewis the first time around, and a host of others....
I felt kinda bad for Stiverne being matched with Wilder for his first defence. Should have given him a much more beatable opponent...
Some here claimed wilder fought 32 tomato cans...how much easier of a contender did he need? LOL.
Good point. I never was one that claimed Wilder was a tomato can, though. I always regarded him as a legitimate fighter. I felt, however, he starletted his way into a title fight without earning it.
Whatever it is that happened to Stiverne that night, I hope he fixes it.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
No one could be worse than Douglas. This is what happens with newly crowned champions... they enjoy their money for a little while and forget to train up for the fights ahead.
Same thing happened to Vernon Forrest, Buster Douglas, Neon Leon, Shannon Briggs, Lennox Lewis the first time around, and a host of others....
I felt kinda bad for Stiverne being matched with Wilder for his first defence. Should have given him a much more beatable opponent...
Some here claimed wilder fought 32 tomato cans...how much easier of a contender did he need? LOL.
Good point. I never was one that claimed Wilder was a tomato can, though. I always regarded him as a legitimate fighter. I felt, however, he starletted his way into a title fight without earning it.
Whatever it is that happened to Stiverne that night, I hope he fixes it.
It seems they both had questions to answer LOL! Wilder answered his a bit better.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
He is more like Botha and Sam Peter.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Stiverne was much better than Spinks or Buster LOL Get real!
He produced a dismal.. dismal.. effort though, no denying that!
Might as well of handed his title to Wilder.
What he attempted to do in round 12, he should have started no later than round 3!
Shit corner too! Like they weren't even watching there fighter or something!
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Stiverne was much better than Spinks or Buster LOL Get real!
He produced a dismal.. dismal.. effort though, no denying that!
Might as well of handed his title to Wilder.
What he attempted to do in round 12, he should have started no later than round 3!
Shit corner too! Like they weren't even watching there fighter or something!
Let it go! The division is poor that I want to shoot their lazy and talentless asses.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Stiverne was much better than Spinks or Buster LOL Get real!
He produced a dismal.. dismal.. effort though, no denying that!
Might as well of handed his title to Wilder.
What he attempted to do in round 12, he should have started no later than round 3!
Shit corner too! Like they weren't even watching there fighter or something!
Let it go! The division is poor that I want to shoot their lazy and talentless asses.
Nobody mentioned anything about the quality of the division.
Meaningless stab in the dark there.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Oleg Maskaev wasn't all that great a champ neither was Sam Peter neither was Shannon Briggs
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
Stiverne was much better than Spinks or Buster LOL Get real!
He produced a dismal.. dismal.. effort though, no denying that!
Might as well of handed his title to Wilder.
What he attempted to do in round 12, he should have started no later than round 3!
Shit corner too! Like they weren't even watching there fighter or something!
Let it go! The division is poor that I want to shoot their lazy and talentless asses.
Nobody mentioned anything about the quality of the division.
Meaningless stab in the dark there.
I did and it is poor.
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I did and it is poor.
....but the champ ain't ;)
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Re: Was Stiverne worse of a HW Champ than Spinks and Buster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
I think we can nominate Stiverne as rivaling the caliber of Leon Neon Spinks and Buster Douglas as a HW Champ.
No excuses, I like Stiverne, but he did seem a bit "out of it" (maybe because of eating so many straight rights from the big punching Wilder) but did you see his non-existent footwork after round 6? He stood squared-up, no head movement, never even tried to duck under any shots that I saw, didn't make a fuck of a lotta sense to me.
The fat shit looked woefully out of shape to me as well, pudgy, sluggish, waddling like a duck.
Pudgy, sluggish, waddling like a duck. Seriously, wtf? happened to him? he's right he was "flat"----
though I would say more like "fat" bwahaha
How hard did this dude train for Wilder? You're going in against a chiseled 29 year old Adonis with a big cock and a small head, shoulders like Atlas, 32 KOs------ Stiverne looked like he was in the shape to fight a buffet table at an all-you-can-eat Mexican restaurant.
bad conditioning, and even WORSE FIGHT PLAN.
At least Spinks and Douglas were in shape for at least 1 fight and both beat legends.
