Printable View
I don't think he can after watching Saturdays fight against a totally lost and out of shape Stiverne.
I also think his power is seriously over rated too, his jab looked great but he was putting full force into those right hands and the one punch power simply wasn't there against a bona fide World Class fighter.
He took a few good shots but don't see him taking Wlads power
I'll have to see another fight against a top fighter to make a better assessment.
I'm intrigued by this one. Writing Wilder off is just as silly as claiming him as the second coming as far as I'm concerned. He will bring something new to the Klitschko table.
Unless Wlad goes berserk and sparks him in a flash Wilder will get the chance to land his bombs as Wlad wont hit back under attack. He was hitting through Stiverns guard and still hurting him. The power is there for me.
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. I fancy Wilder over Wlad more than I do Fury purely on the premise that Wilder is naturally more aggressive. That (if anything) is going to get the job done over Wlad.
There's something i don't like about Wilder's style when he's up close and throwing (wasting) those massive wide left and right hooks, he get's too close to his man, smothers his work, stands square on and ends up landing with the middle of his forearms due to his massive reach.
Maybe inexperience showing through ?
I thought Wilder was the most dangerous opponent for Wlad before Saturday. Have no idea how anyone can think his power is overrated? Anyone he hits is getting hurt.
If he sparked out Wlad in one round I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
He's got power but i don't think it's anywhere as impressive as any of us hoped stepping up to World Level.
Let's be honest here, i think most of us thought he'd bang Stiverne out for the count or force the ref to stop it when he landed his big punches but for me it isn't the same type of power someone like Lennox carried in his right hand as an example. ;)
Can you imagine if he got Wlad going? He went mental when it was Audley Harrison. Imagine the carnage if he had a shot at stopping the champion of the whole world. No one at ringside would be safe from those windmills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
Are you suggesting he could do Vitali in the same fight? ;D
On this very website the lot of you guys were a okay with Stiverne weighing 243 against Arreola.
What was he this weekend? 239 i believe?
It was even listed as tale of the tape...barn burner if Bermaine weighed 243. Vs arreola.
Now he is fat and pudgy LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
I never mentioned his weight - Ever.
He's out of shape - Fact
Wilder is a shit "in fighter" - Fact
How does coming in lighter than he has make him out of shape?Quote:
Originally Posted by smashupQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
I never mentioned his weight - Ever.
He's out of shape - Fact
Wilder is a shit "in fighter" - Fact
And if it is a FACT wilder is shitty inside...then that should mean a fact that the HW division aint shit.
This was a championship fight and the winner is shit....ok
I see it the complete opposite to you Smash.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashupQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
He's got power but i don't think it's anywhere as impressive as any of us hoped stepping up to World Level.
Let's be honest here, i think most of us thought he'd bang Stiverne out for the count or force the ref to stop it when he landed his big punches but for me it isn't the same type of power someone like Lennox carried in his right hand as an example. ;)
I didn't think Wilder showed a lack of power - it looked deadly to me - I saw Stiverne being much tougher than I and most thought. Wilder wouldn't beat Lennox Lewis in a million years apart from the couple of times he landed good ones and ironed him out.
His power may be fine but its his delivery and leaky recovery that leaves him in very vulnerable spot. The arsenal is pretty basic, jab, straight right and very little body work. That lead wide uppercut is an accident waiting to happen. I can't see him jabbing with a two handed master jabber like Wlad and that mauling added on those thin legs would not go well at this stage I believe. Basically for his size and height I don't think Wildrr is all that strong.
He could hang with the version of Lennox that struggled with Bruno.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI see it the complete opposite to you Smash.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashupQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
He's got power but i don't think it's anywhere as impressive as any of us hoped stepping up to World Level.
Let's be honest here, i think most of us thought he'd bang Stiverne out for the count or force the ref to stop it when he landed his big punches but for me it isn't the same type of power someone like Lennox carried in his right hand as an example. ;)
I didn't think Wilder showed a lack of power - it looked deadly to me - I saw Stiverne being much tougher than I and most thought. Wilder wouldn't beat Lennox Lewis in a million years apart from the couple of times he landed good ones and ironed him out.
Of course not the version Steward molded. Lennox grew into a force of nature overtime.
Wilder.in 33 fights still hasnt had 100 pro rounds under his belt.
That's funny because the broadcast team were saying how effective Wilder was while fighting in close during the replays.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashup
Yes, I say Wilder puts Wlad out cold. Wilder's got the reach and the speed to touch Wlad's chin and when he touches his chin Wlad's going to wake up on the canvas.
At least he's quite interesting, and might revive heavyweight boxing across the pond for a while.
I suspect that he has got as far as he has because he is a magnificent physical specimen of an athlete. 6 foot 7, not fat, decent coordination and (as we now know) a decent chin and stamina too. He has sparkd out a lot of bums too, so his record has its fair share of padding.
I wonder if he has actually learnt the trade, though. His technique is pretty flawed and anyone can see he windmills those huge punches.
Fighting against the much shorter and limited Bermane was one thing, but I wonder whether he will get found out when he meets someone who he can't physically dominate. Someone like Wlad is the same size, but he has excellent technique and boxing smarts too.
The big question, of course, is the perception that Wlad is a bit chinny ....... And that does always give a big hitter a perceived chance against Wlad.
If Vitali was still fighting, I don't think I would give Deontay a cat in hell's chance against him!
I think Wilder would always have a punchers chance.
I don't think he would beat Wlad 2 out of ten times now.
I do think some more experience against bigger quality fighters could improve his chances.
I'm thinking like Fenster, it wouldn't surprise me (after seeing the Stiverne fight) if he KOed Wald and it wouldn't surprise me if he was KOed.
I would like to see the Fury fight happen.
Tyson in his prime went the distance a couple of times. Hopkins took Kovalev the distance. Yet no-one would deny the power of Kovalev or Tyson and Wilder has better KO record than the both of em.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashup
It can be hard to knock out an average journeyman if they are slippery and defensive enough
I'd say he has the best chance of anyone out there now - he should maybe fight Fury for the right
I just seen Bryant Jennings has got shot at Klitschko - know nothing about him apart from his name. Is it a mismatch (I know most Klit fights are but is he big enough physically ??)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
That's exactly how i see him now he's faced a solid opponent.
I really don't think he's as strong as people seem to think.
I think Wlads left hook will land because Wilder leaves himself so wide open and someone with his (Wlads) size and reach is very easily gonna exploit that opening and land.
Wilder broke his right hand early in the fight which probably explains why it went twelve. If he doesn't manage to break his hand against Junior he can win. Junior can't jab and grab all night against somebody the same size as him but with the same reach and more mobile.
At some point Wilder will manage to land something substantial and Junior's china chin is going to have to stand up to that right hand.
I think a Zelenoff rematch is in order first...:lickish:
I kid, I kid...:cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I see his (windmilling) of punches a part of zestful youth" and a sign of aggression.
This means when he smells blood he goes all out. (IMO) thats a good thing.
The youtube compilations of his KO's shows it is second nature for him- to end a fight when the oppurtunity presents itself...and that's IMO what Wlad lacks...that killer's instinct.
And most of all...Like Lennox Lewis when he started out wasn't over 230...Just imagine when Deontay fills that 6'7 power punch into 235lbs +? And learns leverage-which comes in time, man this dude is likely to hurt people each time out.
Damn!
Was Stiverne that good a measuring stick?
I only see Areola on his record as a remotely decent test for Stiverne and that being very generous.
I didn't see anything at all from Wilder that made me think he can beat Wlad.
His reach will be nullified for a start and he's nowhere near as strong as Wlad, with limited skills and punch variations.
Wlads just signed to fight Jennings anyway so that leaves Fury free now so wonder if he'll fight Wilder next?
@ Smashup- Legit question. He was a measuring stick, buit how good of a measuring stick?
I guess it depends on the what the individual thought going into the fight.
We did have a few different opionions here. Questions both had to answer,
On one hand Stivern did his job like he was supposed to- he won the title.
Then there is Wilder's resume.
Was Malik a decent opponent going in? I dunno, subjective I guess to each of us.
or Audley Harrison? This is the guy Haye fought to get to Wlad. Was Audly that good then.. but not when Wilder fought him, he became something other than a worthy foe? He went 3-1 since-getting starched by Price, bad or good Wilder's resume? I dunno.
Liakhovhich was a world champ- & Wilder got that on his resume. When Helenious beat Liakhovich only 3 fights ago for him..was that a bum win his record? I'm not sure how much stock of Liakhovich dropped from that to Wilder.
To me Stiverne's measuring was-
Could Wilder go 12 rounds (stamina)-Yes
Could he take a punch from a guy who isn't called a pillow puncher? Yes
If adversity comes, can he deal with it (fractured) hand-Yes
Would he fall of his game and show his youth? (NO-he stuck to the plan;lead with the jab)
Question smashup- who would be a good measuring stick for him now & what do you think that would consist of?
I have no critique for you, just to learn from a different perspctive through lenses other than my own.
fury smokes wilder
Given your recent post about the size of Wilder's head, I'll take that as an omen of Wilder's victory :)
Dont be daft!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
In another fight or two, I'd say he will be a very formidable challenge for Wlad.
Maybe even now, but he is pretty naïve about the clinch game and Wlad could write a book on riding, tangling up and generally holding his opponent.
Wlad's right hand and hook are more tried and true as well.
Wlad's chin though...
Other than landing the big one and getting Wlad out of there early there isn't a way he beats Wlad, hes a very poor man's version of Wlad. Everything Wilder can do Wlad does better, I suspect Wlad's power to be better as well.
Not claiming Wilder can beat Wlad right now. The old fox knows too many tricks in order to survive.
But claiming Wilder's power is overrated is downright laughable. Yeah.... the guy has 32 knockouts in 33 fights, but his power is overrated. Let's forget about Stiverne's high guard and astonishing chin. But here's the most telling argument of all.......
How much power do you really need to break Wlad's glass jaw??
I'd go out on a limb and say Wilder has more than enough.
One thing you miss when you have no rounds is preparing for the sheer ugliness and physicality, grinding inside with same size or tactic. Doing the rewatch on Showtime and can't get over how Wilder gets moved around. Watch the legs and feet alone, dude is or prone to be square most of the time with a step off and really, really open. He throws the exact same low hands response while straight tall. He proved a beard the other night. He went 12 rounds and kept his composure well. Earned the glory. But I think Wlad destroys him.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashupQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
That's exactly how i see him now he's faced a solid opponent.
I really don't think he's as strong as people seem to think.
I think Wlads left hook will land because Wilder leaves himself so wide open and someone with his (Wlads) size and reach is very easily gonna exploit that opening and land.
After researching the fight I have some confidence Deontay could beat Wlad. I think Wlad has too many old time tricks up his sleeve but I give Wilder some chance.
Wilder has 14 years on wlad. Too much advantage IMO.
Wladimir wins every round and knocks Wilder out with almost certainty.
It comes down to a punchers chance for Wilder.
Thing is, I don't see Wilder landing anything much of great significance on Wlad and to be honest, I learned 2 things..
Wilder's power is not totally stunning as it was against bummy opponents, but still very hard of course and...
Wlad has a strong enough chin to take some of Wilder's shots should he land any anyway.
I would say it's a fat chance.
@walrus,Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus
I grant you this about Wilder, I much prefer Wlad to fight these types of big power opponents because even if they aren't as strong or good as Wlad, they always have a punchers chance.
Guys like Jennings have no avenue for victory or even really survival at all.
You fool! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Lennox was 38 and beat Vitali.
Vitali retired unbeaten at 41.
Foreman bombed out guys at 45.
Holyfield took it to some strong fighters at his 40's.
Larry Holmes beat Ray Mercer at 42.
Wladimir's age is the new prime. He will start to decline before too much longer though, but even then can hang on to the top for a lot longer if he likes, he's good enough.
Recently, Thompson wasted David Price, a Wilder clone, and held his own against Pulev. In his 40's.
This ain't no track meet @brocktonblockbust, it's HW boxing.
Most whipper snappers know not to fuck with the silverbacks on the street. And the same applies to pro-boxers as well I reckon.
He would get knocked spark out.
Wladimir knows how Wilder fights, he's sparred with him a few times. I believe Wlad breaks him down and stops him. Wlad is too technically skilled and Wilder is too wild.