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"Unemployed Britons in Europe are drawing much more in benefits and allowances in the wealthier EU countries than their nationals are claiming in the UK, despite the British government’s arguments about migrants flocking in to the country to secure better welfare payments."
Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU | UK news | The Guardian
They're white people moving in a sea of other white people.
My own stance on immigration has nothing to do with benefits, so I don't really care either way about that. For me it is simply a jobs and wages issue and that local people shouldn't have to compete against people who take basic jobs and depress basic wages. It's just not right. The EU is just an abomination to me, so really it would be best for individual countries to reclaim independence. That way you set proper immigration requirements and caps on those looking to loaf about. I don't hate anybody, but a country needs to control itself in support of its own citizens and permanent residents and not just the elite who want to manipulate cheap labour and mess with local community dynamics.
I do hate them , nobody would get benefits if I had my way , do nothing get nothing.
Other than people that are sick? Injured? People that have worked all their lives and have been made redundant? No help for them while they look for work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
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Originally Posted by ryanmanOther than people that are sick? Injured? People that have worked all their lives and have been made redundant? No help for them while they look for work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Was a simple statement to understand don't you think ?
If you have paid into the system then getting a helping hand is ok .
Giving people a free life on benefits clearly has not worked as people abuse it and take from the honest man.
A hard line approach is needed , we have tried one way now let try something else.
I don't believe in going to a country just to clam benefits, that's not me.
These people aren't economic migrants. There are several million Brits in France, Spain and Italy. These are people who've bought a house abroad and moved the family. The money they're picking up will be mostly child benefit claimed by their "unemployed" mothers. There's a massive difference between a bunch of middle class Brits heading off for a life in the sun moving abroad with hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets and a bunch of dirt poor economic migrants moving the other way to slash labour rates for almost all British workers, take housing and healthcare and education resources away from native Brits and take away large numbers of their jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
By the way Britain had net immigration last year of about 250 000 people. That's a couple of hundred thousand of rick Brits moving abroad and about half a million piss poor motherfunkers moving here to arbitrage everybodys' wages, access to services and quality of life down.
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanOther than people that are sick? Injured? People that have worked all their lives and have been made redundant? No help for them while they look for work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Was a simple statement to understand don't you think ?
If you have paid into the system then getting a helping hand is ok .
Giving people a free life on benefits clearly has not worked as people abuse it and take from the honest man.
A hard line approach is needed , we have tried one way now let try something else.
Yeah it was simple. You said 'nobody would get benefits'.
You said do nothing get nothing. Not 'have done nothing get nothing'.
Your statement was very simple. If you didn't mean it to read how it reads then that is your problem, not a problem of my understanding.
They don't come here and claim benefits Dia. Very very few. Drop in the ocean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
Most illegal immigrants in this country are Australian and American. People have no problem with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThese people aren't economic migrants. There are several million Brits in France, Spain and Italy. These are people who've bought a house abroad and moved the family. The money they're picking up will be mostly child benefit claimed by their "unemployed" mothers. There's a massive difference between a bunch of middle class Brits heading off for a life in the sun moving abroad with hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets and a bunch of dirt poor economic migrants moving the other way to slash labour rates for almost all British workers, take housing and healthcare and education resources away from native Brits and take away large numbers of their jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Now I know we are talking about the migration of EU workers, but the reason most people are ok with the above, but not ok with legal migrants from the EU isn't for the reasons you have said. You may have an objective and reasoned argument against immigration but for many others their real objections are far more insidious, and you know it.
I am not okay with illegal immigrants, no mater were they are from myself as EU immigration goes,Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanMost illegal immigrants in this country are Australian and American. People have no problem with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThese people aren't economic migrants. There are several million Brits in France, Spain and Italy. These are people who've bought a house abroad and moved the family. The money they're picking up will be mostly child benefit claimed by their "unemployed" mothers. There's a massive difference between a bunch of middle class Brits heading off for a life in the sun moving abroad with hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets and a bunch of dirt poor economic migrants moving the other way to slash labour rates for almost all British workers, take housing and healthcare and education resources away from native Brits and take away large numbers of their jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Now I know we are talking about the migration of EU workers, but the reason most people are ok with the above, but not ok with legal migrants from the EU isn't for the reasons you have said. You may have an objective and reasoned argument against immigration but for many others their real objections are far more insidious, and you know it.
you no my stand were I live I see the affects, Jobs, housing, health care.
No mater what people say I have seen, the affects immigration has on the area were I live, we don't
need unskilled workers, what happens to our unskilled that should be employed.!
We are to bloody soft, give jobs and housing to our own FIRST.
I feel extremely sorry we cant, wipe out poverty proved good housing, and health care and jobs
for all, but we can't most of the immigrant workers are from, poverty struck country which at
best, are rebuilding after years of communist rule.
The economic facts are, it has taken years to have jobs, health care, and housing as our country
is run into the ground, by a bunch of posh upper class twerps.
Kirkland said it right because they are rich and have large assets.
The system if allowed to continue , then it need to give people an opt out clause , if you don't want any of your taxes going to dead legs and immigrants then you should be able to have a tax rebate and opt out.
Then if the people who are happy to pay for these people , they can make up the short fall.
That seems very fair to me.
Seems fair. Let the BHL crowd pay for them waste cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Bleeding heart liberals is an American term. It's dumb and witless like your posting. You aren't British or European so get your head out of everyone else's arse it's embarrassing. You are such a wet fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustSeems fair. Let the BHL crowd pay for them waste cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
We'd also have to have an option to opt out of having to pay taxes to fix problems caused by smoking, drinking alcohol, overeating etc. Who is without sin? Do you exercise a lot Al? If not I'd like to not pay tax towards any health costs that you are going to incur for us.
Also, immigrants pay more tax than gets spent on them. Proven. Don't let a simple fact stop you repeating that kind of line. You're entitled to your opinion but at least let it be based on fact. If you don't like foreigners living here then just say it. You have before.
Nobody wants to pay for people that simply refuse to work. Despite how often you imply people do.
It's just some people can understand that making blanket statements (or policies if you were in charge) affects and harms lots of people that do not deserve to be harmed. Therefore people generally try to look for solutions that will solve the problem without ending up harming people that deserve help.
Trying to separate the truly worthy from the 'scroungers' is difficult but it is what governments are trying to do. If you have any solutions that might actually work then say so.
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Originally Posted by ryanmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
We'd also have to have an option to opt out of having to pay taxes to fix problems caused by smoking, drinking alcohol, overeating etc. Who is without sin? Do you exercise a lot Al? If not I'd like to not pay tax towards any health costs that you are going to incur for us.
Also, immigrants pay more tax than gets spent on them. Proven. Don't let a simple fact stop you repeating that kind of line. You're entitled to your opinion but at least let it be based on fact. If you don't like foreigners living here then just say it. You have before.
Nobody wants to pay for people that simply refuse to work. Despite how often you imply people do.
It's just some people can understand that making blanket statements (or policies if you were in charge) affects and harms lots of people that do not deserve to be harmed. Therefore people generally try to look for solutions that will solve the problem without ending up harming people that deserve help.
Trying to separate the truly worthy from the 'scroungers' is difficult but it is what governments are trying to do. If you have any solutions that might actually work then say so.
You don't I have my own private health care.
A large number of immigrants either don't work or earn well below the taxable rate , that is a fact , they also have families who need health care etc.
You honestly believe the equation works ? Well our financial state is testament to the fact is isn't working.
There are a lot of racist people. There is a far bigger group of people who are not racist but are threatenend by people coming into the country and undercutting them for work and employment in general, adding to the schools and doctors rolls meaning more competition for places and services, more competition and increased pricing for housing and so on. Yet if any of these people mention the effect immigration has on them they're immediately classed as racists and bigots.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanMost illegal immigrants in this country are Australian and American. People have no problem with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThese people aren't economic migrants. There are several million Brits in France, Spain and Italy. These are people who've bought a house abroad and moved the family. The money they're picking up will be mostly child benefit claimed by their "unemployed" mothers. There's a massive difference between a bunch of middle class Brits heading off for a life in the sun moving abroad with hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets and a bunch of dirt poor economic migrants moving the other way to slash labour rates for almost all British workers, take housing and healthcare and education resources away from native Brits and take away large numbers of their jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
Now I know we are talking about the migration of EU workers, but the reason most people are ok with the above, but not ok with legal migrants from the EU isn't for the reasons you have said. You may have an objective and reasoned argument against immigration but for many others their real objections are far more insidious, and you know it.
It's possible for their both to be a small minority of people having racist reactions to immigration and an actual majority of the country who are affected by this but are scared to say anything or make much ofa fuss about it due to being branded racist.
The problem is that the political class don't want to talk about immigration. We have a demographic problem where we're going to have a shortage of working people to pay the pensions of an ageing population so the least worst way to deal with this is mass immigration. This is something all the parties have signed on to so the party that used to stand for workers' rights, the Labour party, who campaigned against joining what was then called the Common Market (now European Union) in 1973 because freedom of movement would cut British labour rates, is now busily smearing anybody who doesn't agree with mass immigration as a bigot.
The Conservatives love it because the people who fund the Conservative party get cheap labour and bigger profits.
This is why we're seeing the rise of UKIP and the Front National in France. Actual working people don't have anybody representing them and have politicians actually working against them. It's not going to end well.
Even when you include benefits paid to working immigrants like tax credits the country is better off with them in rather than out -- until they retire and start costing serious money. But the current immigration boom kicks that can thirty odd years down the line past the time when the fiftysomethings running the country in government and the civil service have had their index-linked pensions paid by the new arrivals and then carked it. It's something for the next generations to deal with then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
What would really make things more equal is to let the chattering/political/media/professional metropolitan classes, and I'm thinking particularly London here, experience what the rest of the country has to deal with.
India produces ten million graduates a year. Far more than they need and graduates over the re are working for as little as 5k a year.
So I'm thinking send over a million visas foe English-speaking graduates. Let them come over here and let the graduate/management class in England (currently with an effective zero percent unemployment rate) feel the benfits of immigration. No more pay rises, zero hours contracts, terrified to be the first to go home every day, having to do unpaid weekends and overtime every time the phone rang and so on. Not to mention lots of them being made unemployed, house repossessions and so on. Only then would there be a change in policy. But how do you change policy? How do you pay for our demographic time bomb?
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
We'd also have to have an option to opt out of having to pay taxes to fix problems caused by smoking, drinking alcohol, overeating etc. Who is without sin? Do you exercise a lot Al? If not I'd like to not pay tax towards any health costs that you are going to incur for us.
Also, immigrants pay more tax than gets spent on them. Proven. Don't let a simple fact stop you repeating that kind of line. You're entitled to your opinion but at least let it be based on fact. If you don't like foreigners living here then just say it. You have before.
Nobody wants to pay for people that simply refuse to work. Despite how often you imply people do.
It's just some people can understand that making blanket statements (or policies if you were in charge) affects and harms lots of people that do not deserve to be harmed. Therefore people generally try to look for solutions that will solve the problem without ending up harming people that deserve help.
Trying to separate the truly worthy from the 'scroungers' is difficult but it is what governments are trying to do. If you have any solutions that might actually work then say so.
You don't I have my own private health care.
A large number of immigrants either don't work or earn well below the taxable rate , that is a fact , they also have families who need health care etc.
You honestly believe the equation works ? Well our financial state is testament to the fact is isn't working.
I don't believe it works perfectly. But I believe the solution needs to be something that doesn't punish people that deserve help. Which is a difficult thing to gauge.
Plus far too many of the nitwits dont even speak good enough English to work in most places, and the ones that speak "some" English are causing great consternation and stress with the customers who are struggling to communicate with them. English should be mandatory, both in the UK and US. BHLs make me sick. Sure let 'em all in, that'll be ~goooooood~ for UK society. Nutjob politicians selling the whole place out. Wanna emigrate? LEARN ENGLISH TO A FUNCTIONING LEVEL. :cool: "FUNCTIONING" means being able to converse in great detail about account balances, certificates of deposit, interest rates, other investment details (if they wanna be, oh, say, customer service reps for banking call centers), or electric/gas/water utilities details as regards your monthly statements, etc. (if they wanna work for a call-center in the PSE&G sector) etc... the list goes on. Proficient English should be mandatory, and I should personally write the qualifying exams, me and Miles, to test their butts out as to their literacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
We'd also have to have an option to opt out of having to pay taxes to fix problems caused by smoking, drinking alcohol, overeating etc. Who is without sin? Do you exercise a lot Al? If not I'd like to not pay tax towards any health costs that you are going to incur for us.
Also, immigrants pay more tax than gets spent on them. Proven. Don't let a simple fact stop you repeating that kind of line. You're entitled to your opinion but at least let it be based on fact. If you don't like foreigners living here then just say it. You have before.
Nobody wants to pay for people that simply refuse to work. Despite how often you imply people do.
It's just some people can understand that making blanket statements (or policies if you were in charge) affects and harms lots of people that do not deserve to be harmed. Therefore people generally try to look for solutions that will solve the problem without ending up harming people that deserve help.
Trying to separate the truly worthy from the 'scroungers' is difficult but it is what governments are trying to do. If you have any solutions that might actually work then say so.
You don't I have my own private health care.
A large number of immigrants either don't work or earn well below the taxable rate , that is a fact , they also have families who need health care etc.
You honestly believe the equation works ? Well our financial state is testament to the fact is isn't working.
Stop making huge assumptions about countries you don't live in Brockton. I meet many new working immigrants here every week. They are not the ignorant people you seek to portray them as. They are lectures, professors and heads of department in the universities I work at, so good luck teaching them English. You and Miles both teach English as a foreign language, we get that, but there are many with phds and masters on the forum, so please try and get over yourself.
There are people with phds and masters on this forum? That sounds important. Who?
Coincidentally I have a masters. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
That's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Beautiful. and........One guy has a really Powerful Max-ters degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterCoincidentally I have a masters. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Many used to post here before you dragged the place through the gutter.
I am on one level surprised, considering your constant behind the scenes campaigning I thought you might have stopped to draw breath and actually ask someone about themselves, but on another level not at all surprised that you thought you and Miles were 'special' cases.
I was at the old Wembley Conference Centre to see Jimmy White-vs-John Virgo at The Masters back in the 80's.
Can't beat that one even with a Lamborghini and a top speed of 217mph. My step-dad (cunt though he was) once beat Terry Griffiths at Butlins in Minehead, because Terry challenged him to the best of three frames and he was a decent player who grabbed his chance and beat the Taff so that he could have something to go on about for the next 30 years.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Wow, you learn something new everyday. The forum was home to a plethora of academics that ran away because of Brockton's 'gutter' behaviour. You are clearly a very bad boy, Brockton! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Many used to post here before you dragged the place through the gutter.
I am on one level surprised, considering your constant behind the scenes campaigning I thought you might have stopped to draw breath and actually ask someone about themselves, but on another level not at all surprised that you thought you and Miles were 'special' cases.
On the topic of qualified language instructors, then I assume that me and Brock are indeed experienced, qualified, and brave enough to be classified as such, and on that basis Brock's tongue in cheek statement is probably true. We are qualified to write exams and grade them accordingly. Bachman's 'Fundamental Considerations in Language Testing' is a useful tome in working out how to apply effective testing criteria in a range of environments.
On the topic of immigrants and testing, I don't see the point for temporary immigration. Immigrants come in because of politicians and if politicians are going to be short sighted enough to have immigrants working in bars and factories at the behest of their factory and brewery owning mates, then shame on them. It's a political issue and on every count politics has failed the British people. Where you do need a language requirement is in permanent immigration and citizenship as you are then supposed to be able to survive on your own in that country. You needn't be fluent, but you do need to know the rudiments as mentioned by Brock previously.
Hear me now me gettin badder all de time-- Skunt dere not whatta know how be gwon nah boy. bwahaha As for Bachman's does Lyle have any idea he is a famous scholar?Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWow, you learn something new everyday. The forum was home to a plethora of academics that ran away because of Brockton's 'gutter' behaviour. You are clearly a very bad boy, Brockton! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Many used to post here before you dragged the place through the gutter.
I am on one level surprised, considering your constant behind the scenes campaigning I thought you might have stopped to draw breath and actually ask someone about themselves, but on another level not at all surprised that you thought you and Miles were 'special' cases.
On the topic of qualified language instructors, then I assume that me and Brock are indeed experienced, qualified, and brave enough to be classified as such, and on that basis Brock's tongue in cheek statement is probably true. We are qualified to write exams and grade them accordingly. Bachman's 'Fundamental Considerations in Language Testing' is a useful tome in working out how to apply effective testing criteria in a range of environments.
On the topic of immigrants and testing, I don't see the point for temporary immigration. Immigrants come in because of politicians and if politicians are going to be short sighted enough to have immigrants working in bars and factories at the behest of their factory and brewery owning mates, then shame on them. It's a political issue and on every count politics has failed the British people. Where you do need a language requirement is in permanent immigration and citizenship as you are then supposed to be able to survive on your own in that country. You needn't be fluent, but you do need to know the rudiments as mentioned by Brock previously.
There are some. Most of them probably avoid these topics like the plague though. For obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfWow, you learn something new everyday. The forum was home to a plethora of academics that ran away because of Brockton's 'gutter' behaviour. You are clearly a very bad boy, Brockton! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Many used to post here before you dragged the place through the gutter.
I am on one level surprised, considering your constant behind the scenes campaigning I thought you might have stopped to draw breath and actually ask someone about themselves, but on another level not at all surprised that you thought you and Miles were 'special' cases.
On the topic of qualified language instructors, then I assume that me and Brock are indeed experienced, qualified, and brave enough to be classified as such, and on that basis Brock's tongue in cheek statement is probably true. We are qualified to write exams and grade them accordingly. Bachman's 'Fundamental Considerations in Language Testing' is a useful tome in working out how to apply effective testing criteria in a range of environments.
On the topic of immigrants and testing, I don't see the point for temporary immigration. Immigrants come in because of politicians and if politicians are going to be short sighted enough to have immigrants working in bars and factories at the behest of their factory and brewery owning mates, then shame on them. It's a political issue and on every count politics has failed the British people. Where you do need a language requirement is in permanent immigration and citizenship as you are then supposed to be able to survive on your own in that country. You needn't be fluent, but you do need to know the rudiments as mentioned by Brock previously.
Unfortunately I, too have seen a few sites with some over-the-tops posters that make one wanna' leave. (which is why I'm here) But my honest assessment; Brock may be different, bold, weird topic-driven, over-the-top, trippy, maybe even mushroomed-out, but his demeanor is cool as shit. Not that shit is...well you know what I mean..
Because they have PhD's in Nanotechnology or English Literature or Politics whence their views on commonsense issues in the real world are as haywire as those of anyone else? :scratchchin:Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanThere are some. Most of them probably avoid these topics like the plague though. For obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Brock is clearly enjoying his downtime and having a laugh and some of you are expecting nothing more than a Philosophy seminar or a paragraph based 8 mile rap contest. Plus having to tolerate all the insults he is receiving on a continuous basis. Insults are hardly the height of academic prowess either. When he posts on here he does what he likes and isn't checking into an office. People post how they want and I would love to know who these academics are, the ones who are avoiding populist topics like immigration 'like the plague'. If they are so intelligent and rational, then the power of their arguments would surely sweep us all away. However, they are mute and say nothing and seemingly because Brockton scared them away. In the words of Brock Bwahahahaha! ;D
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Originally Posted by GandalfBecause they have PhD's in Nanotechnology or English Literature or Politics whence their views on commonsense issues in the real world are as haywire as those of anyone else? :scratchchin:Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanThere are some. Most of them probably avoid these topics like the plague though. For obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Brock is clearly enjoying his downtime and having a laugh and some of you are expecting nothing more than a Philosophy seminar or a paragraph based 8 mile rap contest. Plus having to tolerate all the insults he is receiving on a continuous basis. Insults are hardly the height of academic prowess either. When he posts on here he does what he likes and isn't checking into an office. People post how they want and I would love to know who these academics are, the ones who are avoiding populist topics like immigration 'like the plague'. If they are so intelligent and rational, then the power of their arguments would surely sweep us all away. However, they are mute and say nothing and seemingly because Brockton scared them away. In the words of Brock Bwahahahaha! ;D
:lolhaha::rocks::yes::rotflmao: oh wait I forgot: EDIT! ............. BBBBWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by GandalfBecause they have PhD's in Nanotechnology or English Literature or Politics whence their views on commonsense issues in the real world are as haywire as those of anyone else? :scratchchin:Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanThere are some. Most of them probably avoid these topics like the plague though. For obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustThat's what i wanna know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Brock is clearly enjoying his downtime and having a laugh and some of you are expecting nothing more than a Philosophy seminar or a paragraph based 8 mile rap contest. Plus having to tolerate all the insults he is receiving on a continuous basis. Insults are hardly the height of academic prowess either. When he posts on here he does what he likes and isn't checking into an office. People post how they want and I would love to know who these academics are, the ones who are avoiding populist topics like immigration 'like the plague'. If they are so intelligent and rational, then the power of their arguments would surely sweep us all away. However, they are mute and say nothing and seemingly because Brockton scared them away. In the words of Brock Bwahahahaha! ;D
There are 100s of members of this site. Of course some have Masters and some have PHDs.
I'm sure they aren't here in an academic capacity. They would just be boxing fans that happen to have those qualifications. But I'm sure that looking at some thread titles would not entice them into the discussions. I don't think it's being suggested that Brock has frightened away a score of academics that used to discuss the merits of Plato, Mill and Thoreau.
It is true though that there are some good posters that aren't about much/at all now because for them the feel of the place changed and so just doesn't pique their interest anymore.
It's the same old forum to me with most of the same old faces and most of them for the good. No qualms on the health of the place on my part. Only a few AWOL really and then some new blood always coming through. I couldn't care less who has qualifications really.