Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stiverne

Here he is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl...-ts=1421914688

Tell you what after years of hating Wlad and him boring me half to death over and over, his last fight was a breath of fresh air because he actually went on the offensive and looked devastating doing it.

That left Hook is a heavy heavy bomb to drop on an opponent.

Holmes is chatting utter shit.

Larry is spot on. Spot on. His piston-like jab would decapitate the K bros. Bang on.

Larry is half right. Wilder sparks Wlad, but Bermane "GIVE ME WATER UGGGHH" Stiverne would never beat Wlad and that's cold fact.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Larry is spot on. Spot on. His piston-like jab would decapitate the K bros. Bang on.

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I already commenting on this thread on BoxingScene..

Basically, Holmes is butt hurt that Wlad destroyed his legacy and knows he wouldn't make a decent opponent anymore.

And so has joined the same club as Shavers, "the nostalgia delusion club" ey @Master ;)

He rags Wlad to maintain his own legacy.

I always liked Holmes and respect his boxing.. But this was pathetic!

Wlad would easily beat all these guys, knock all of them out, Holmes, Stiverne, Wilder.. And everybody knows it! :)

Holmes was a really good fighter, but he always had a chip on both shoulders. I can't recall him ever saying anything remotely positive about any other heavyweight who ever lived.

I am not a big Wlad fan, though I respect him a lot, but even I can see that he has an excellent jab that's right up there with Larry's (albeit it a different type of jab)

Holmes would beat Wlad as he has better skill, heart, talent and jab.

What the fuck is this "Wlad has no heart" business???? The dude was being told by everyone AND HIS OWN BROTHER to retire after the loss to Lamon Brewster and here we are 10 years later and he is THE MAN of the division, head and shoulders above everyone else! From 3 knockdowns against Sam Peter, like a phoenix Wlad's career rose from the ashes and he's dominated ever since. Think about that just for 1 second....At the lowest point in Wladimir's career, he fought the guy nobody else wanted to fight, he jumped at the opportunity to prove himself as a professional and look what he has achieved since then....you can't argue with his success.

"You just have to jump on them"....them....#1 Vitali is retired #2 Nobody "jumped on Vitali" #3 fighters have talked the same shit about Wlad for over 10 years and it's been over 10 years since anyone has followed through on ANY threat against Wlad.

I don't know if Larry is upset that Wlad is passing him on the longest reigning champion list or if he's just trying to cheer for Wilder or maybe he feels forgotten, but whatever it is he's talking a bunch of bullshit.

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Originally Posted by X

Holmes was a really good fighter, but he always had a chip on both shoulders. I can't recall him ever saying anything remotely positive about any other heavyweight who ever lived.

I am not a big Wlad fan, though I respect him a lot, but even I can see that he has an excellent jab that's right up there with Larry's (albeit it a different type of jab)

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Great post. And because of it I'll level with you the early Holmes jab, was faster than Wlad's.

But Early Holmes weighed about 200lbs... He would be knocked out by the Wlad jab ;)

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by X

Holmes was a really good fighter, but he always had a chip on both shoulders. I can't recall him ever saying anything remotely positive about any other heavyweight who ever lived.

I am not a big Wlad fan, though I respect him a lot, but even I can see that he has an excellent jab that's right up there with Larry's (albeit it a different type of jab)

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Great post. And because of it I'll level with you the early Holmes jab, was faster than Wlad's.

But Early Holmes weighed about 200lbs... He would be knocked out by the Wlad jab ;)

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There you go on about the weight again. Give it a rest. :):)

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Originally Posted by Master

Holmes would beat Wlad as he has better skill, heart, talent and jab.

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GTFOOH @Master,

Come on mate, I know your not warm to Wlad, but hey, I have deep respect for Holmes, but even if you don't swallow he wouldn't make a good Wlad opponent, he certainly couldn't beat Wlad. Everything Holmes did, Wlad does better. He is kind of a "Super-Holmes".

I have rarely seen as much heart in a fighter as Wlad, who else has ever come back from such setbacks to become the dominant champ? Nobody ever!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by Master

Holmes would beat Wlad as he has better skill, heart, talent and jab.

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GTFOOH @Master,

Come on mate, I know your not warm to Wlad, but hey, I have deep respect for Holmes, but even if you don't swallow he wouldn't make a good Wlad opponent, he certainly couldn't beat Wlad. Everything Holmes did, Wlad does better. He is kind of a "Super-Holmes".

I have rarely seen as much heart in a fighter as Wlad, who else has ever come back from such setbacks to become the dominant champ? Nobody ever!

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Wlad is not super Holmes. You are deluded mate.

Watch Wlad closely he is vulnerable which is why he holds so much. I guarantee you that Vitali, Lennox, Holmes, Tyson type aggression would see him crumble. There is no one out there with that calibre.

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Originally Posted by X

Holmes was a really good fighter, but he always had a chip on both shoulders. I can't recall him ever saying anything remotely positive about any other heavyweight who ever lived.

I am not a big Wlad fan, though I respect him a lot, but even I can see that he has an excellent jab that's right up there with Larry's (albeit it a different type of jab)

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Holmes was and probably still is, an honest to God tough guy. As a lot of people used to say, a very serious dude.
Here is the only time I heard him say something remotely positive about about another HW. When asked if he ever fought Foreman, Holmes said, 'No, thank God!'
Foreman was setting across the table from him (a round table of HW fighters) so I'm not sure if Holmes was serious or just showing some respect. Lol
How Spinks ever beat him, twice, I'll never know, just got old overnight I guess.

Its really unusual how Wlad completely polarises people's opinions about his capability as a fighter.

I wonder if it's because he actually fights like an amateur boxer, controlling distance and pace, probing with his jab, shutting down the action when it moves inside etc.

He has got away with a few technical flaws because he is the outstanding physical specimen of his generation, and has succeeded in melding that style (and he had pretty much mastered it as an amateur already) and bringing his physical advantages to bear.

He has never brought the sport into disrepute, is a great ambassador for the game, never ever turns up unfit, hasn't dodged anyone in over ten years - apart from his brother;D -he is articulate, intelligent and (dare I say it) White ..... He should be the biggest and most popular champion in history.

I think people like their world champions to have a scent of destruction about them, to get hit, to go down and get up, to 'prove' themselves in a few wars. Wlad has done it all on his own terms, no Don King, only really fights in Europe etc. His problem is the lack of drama in most of his fights, and this is the entertainment business after all. Mayweather has the same issue, but he bigs up the drama outside the ring instead!

Mark my words, 5 years after he retires, people on this board will have him right up there with the ATGs.

Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.

The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.

The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).

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:rolleyes:

A career defining fight is? Because I could ask about the "career defining fights" of Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis et al and we'll see how you define the term.

Opposition has been a joke? He just smashed the fuck out a gold medal winner...you know ANOTHER ONE! He's taken 0's off of a ton of fighters, he's fought the best, he's beat the best, and he's not slipped once in over 10 years give the guy a fucking break.

He's struggled? Against who? He probably hasn't lost 10 rounds in 10 years Master!

He doesn't provide excitement....people said that when he KO'd Ray Austin in 2 rounds and I'm tired as fuck of the bitching about it. Wlad fights at a higher level than anyone else out there he has 53 KO's....53 man!!! Out of 66 total fights!!!!

Oh ... yeah like the time Larry swore he about to decapitate Tyson with an uppercut only his arm got caught in the ropes...

Wlad has a devastating jab, he's like Floyd, he could win a fight on his jab alone. How many times has he wobbled people with it, it looks like a Bruce Lee super duper one inch punch

Wladimir Klitschko had a real Itch-ko

it bothers him that he gets no respect from ANYONE, but he doesn't deserve any more respect than a Ken Norton or a Joe Frazier.

He certainly doesnt deserve the respect of an Ali, a Lewis, a Holyfield, a Tyson.

FOR EXAMPLE: Tyson's competition which was above average (Pinklon Thomas, Bonecrusher Smith, Ruddock, Berbick, Holmes 38 yrs old, Mike Spinks) was certainly far far more talented than Wladimir's competition.

Wlad kills both, and I don't see either as being the "best" that Wlad has fought, they'd be just be the average opponent for him.

I mean really, do you think that Wlad is going to plod on to those idiot straight rights Wilder was throwing? Probably not!

Do you think those left hooks he landed had enough to drop Wlad? That's debatable!

Wlad stops them both!

As much as I respect the legend that is Larry Holmes as a fighter, I just seem to like him less and less as a man every time I hear him speak. He seems to think he's the greatest HW of all time which is fair enough (I disagree, although I can understand anyone who chooses to agree, he was very good) but he really needs to get a grip when talking about other fighters. Wlad is not the most exciting HW, he has weakness' that have been highlighted in the past but he has tremendous tools and he uses the tools he has to protect the weakness' and that has turned him into a formidable fighter that has now ruled for about 10 years. I actually think Wlad's Jab is up there with Holmes'.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.

The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).

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:rolleyes:

A career defining fight is? Because I could ask about the "career defining fights" of Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis et al and we'll see how you define the term.

Opposition has been a joke? He just smashed the fuck out a gold medal winner...you know ANOTHER ONE! He's taken 0's off of a ton of fighters, he's fought the best, he's beat the best, and he's not slipped once in over 10 years give the guy a fucking break.

He's struggled? Against who? He probably hasn't lost 10 rounds in 10 years Master!

He doesn't provide excitement....people said that when he KO'd Ray Austin in 2 rounds and I'm tired as fuck of the bitching about it. Wlad fights at a higher level than anyone else out there he has 53 KO's....53 man!!! Out of 66 total fights!!!!

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I said he is an ATG heavyweight what more do you want me to say.

When you are up with ATG the the second paragraph applies which all still stands.

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.

The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).

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Sad thing about history is how loss(es) makes a fighter look ordinary to those who look back on it- as opposed to living through it.- Cooney is that example of it.

Cooney 6'5 25-0 23 ko's Walking through Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young- he was a massive specimen with a power punch & a chin. Yet Holmes proved his skill level could nullify, height, jab & power. -& when Cooney hurt him to the body, will power pulled him out- thats what he questions about Wlad--even stating Wlad is good technically, but theres more to boxing than skill.

Wlad vs Puritty good example- Wlad is throwing nicely, bustin' through Puritty's guard- - then by round 7-8 Puritty is throwin' wild shit, - Dog fight is on.

He's got little skill, but full of will! Guard up high, Wlad's gas tank- on low..Fool don'e punched himself out..against a 1/2 skill fighter whose will pulled him through, now Wlad is on the canvas...oops Rd11- Wlad is fighting backward, flopping backwards, no inside game-so he's trying to clinch his way outta dog fight. He lost to a determined fighter, not a skilled one.

Same with Sanders: every time Sanders landed- Wlad's instinct was to grab-clinch (total sign) that he can't scrap like a dog to get out of it...he got dropped at the moment he tried to clinch. Cory @ this time is totally squared up- but Wlad's instinct was now was to cover while plodding forward- no balance.

In his deepest moments of his career- Wlad never tried to fight his way out- he clinched & flopped his way out.

Now that he has gained the ability to effectively clinch- he's been able to avoid the dog fight...especially since today's HW's are oversized poodles.

Holmes simply pointed that out.

Holmes proved at the time a 6'5 boxer which was massive, could be whooped....

Larry Holmes was a great Champion, far better than both Klitschko brothers Larry was underrated
his crime he beat the shit out of Ali, not Larry's fault Ali's for carrying on boxing for way to long.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

FOR EXAMPLE: Tyson's competition which was above average (Pinklon Thomas, Bonecrusher Smith, Ruddock, Berbick, Holmes 38 yrs old, Mike Spinks) .

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Don't forget Tony Tucker!!

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Sad thing about history is how loss(es) makes a fighter look ordinary to those who look back on it- as opposed to living through it.- Cooney is that example of it.

Cooney 6'5 25-0 23 ko's Walking through Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young- he was a massive specimen with a power punch & a chin. Yet Holmes proved his skill level could nullify, height, jab & power. -& when Cooney hurt him to the body, will power pulled him out- thats what he questions about Wlad--even stating Wlad is good technically, but theres more to boxing than skill.

Wlad vs Puritty good example- Wlad is throwing nicely, bustin' through Puritty's guard- - then by round 7-8 Puritty is throwin' wild shit, - Dog fight is on.

He's got little skill, but full of will! Guard up high, Wlad's gas tank- on low..Fool don'e punched himself out..against a 1/2 skill fighter whose will pulled him through, now Wlad is on the canvas...oops Rd11- Wlad is fighting backward, flopping backwards, no inside game-so he's trying to clinch his way outta dog fight. He lost to a determined fighter, not a skilled one.

Same with Sanders: every time Sanders landed- Wlad's instinct was to grab-clinch (total sign) that he can't scrap like a dog to get out of it...he got dropped at the moment he tried to clinch. Cory @ this time is totally squared up- but Wlad's instinct was now was to cover while plodding forward- no balance.

In his deepest moments of his career- Wlad never tried to fight his way out- he clinched & flopped his way out.

Now that he has gained the ability to effectively clinch- he's been able to avoid the dog fight...especially since today's HW's are oversized poodles.

Holmes simply pointed that out.

Holmes proved at the time a 6'5 boxer which was massive, could be whooped....

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Gerry Cooney was tough but wins over old Ron Lyle and old Ken Norton and old Jimmy Young did not mean he was ready for Larry Holmes. Cooney was 25-0-0 but he had never been tested by a guy in his prime at the time, he didn't fight Marvis Frazier or Carl Williams, or Renaldo Snipes or Tim Witherspoon...are you kidding me? Sure he could punch but his boxing never got tested the deepest he went into a fight before Holmes was 8 rounds...8!!! And he lasted 13 with Holmes, why so long???? Couldn't Larry have ended it sooner???


Purrity, for fucks sake Wlad was 22 when that fight happened. He was young, he was beating the fuck out of Ross and just got tired, it happens ESPECIALLY to young fighters and the fact that Wlad could go back to that fight, look at it objectively, and then correct the mistakes THAT is the sign of a true champion! Ross Purrity's manager really dodged a bullet with his fighter's health allowing that fight to continue, but that's how it works sometimes.

Sanders was a power punching southpaw....imagine if Earnie Shavers was a southpaw, would Ali have fought him? Would Holmes have fought him? Sanders didn't help himself by training more on the golf course than he did in the ring, but what a talent. He threw short, quick, precise punches from a southpaw stance and they packed a wallop....Wlad wasn't out cold, Wlad didn't get counted out with his back on the canvas, he got caught, couldn't recover and that's that. He went back, took note of the mistakes he made and hasn't made them sense....that learning process, that ability to cover his flaws, that makes him a great fighter. Since that loss Wladimir has fought a number of southpaws and none have given him trouble...none are the puncher Corrie was (r.i.p) but none have given Wlad trouble.

Mike Tyson did PLENTY of clinching, Ali did PLENTY of clinching....can people not accept that Wladimir is the best heavyweight in the world? It's not by a small margin either he just absolutely tooled the best the division had to offer in Pulev, he just smacked the life out of the guy and with his 3rd best punch too!

No one is picking on Wlad. We have said he is a great champion. When you are against the elite in history then he falls short. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Master

No one is picking on Wlad. We have said he is a great champion. When you are against the elite in history then he falls short. Get over it.

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Define "career defining fight"....because if you can't (or won't) then everyone will just assume it's because you personally don't like Wladimir which is fine if you don't but at least own up to it.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

No one is picking on Wlad. We have said he is a great champion. When you are against the elite in history then he falls short. Get over it.

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Define "career defining fight"....because if you can't (or won't) then everyone will just assume it's because you personally don't like Wladimir which is fine if you don't but at least own up to it.

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Career defining fight would be a big fight that captures the public attention, against a credible fighter who people believe has a chance and he puts on a great show.

I can not name a career defining fight of his. Can you?

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Originally Posted by Freedom

Here he is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=NdtuZhjxViU&x-yt-ts=1421914688

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Fuck me, if he'd just mentioned Earnie Shavers every other word or two he'd fit right in with most of you!

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Originally Posted by Master

Career defining fight would be a big fight that captures the public attention, against a credible fighter who people believe has a chance and he puts on a great show.

I can not name a career defining fight of his. Can you?

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I'd say a large majority of his fights "captures the public's attention" seeing how many asses he puts in the seats. Credible fighter well let's see: Chris Byrd x 2, Sam Peter x 2, Tony Thompson x 2, Chagaev (on short notice for both), David Haye, and typically he scores KO's. The Pulev fight for example was vs a guy with a great amateur pedigree who was undefeated as a professional and Wlad walked right through him.....but I digress name the "career defining fights" for Larry Holmes was it vs 40-4 Ken Norton, the 59-7-1 Earnie Shavers, the 56-3 Muhammad Ali, or were his fights vs the 22-0-0 Renoldo Snipes, the 15-0 Tim Witherspoon, and the 25-0 Gerry Cooney his "career defining fights"? How about Lennox Lewis? were his career defining fights vs the old boys Tyson and Holyfield or vs the newbs like Grant and Briggs?

But hey keep adding on those qualifiers so you can give Wlad just enough credit without admitting how good he actually is. And just because YOU aren't watching, doesn't mean everyone else ain't watching. He sells tickets REGARDLESS of what you think.


Also Larry Holmes is basically parroting what Pulev said before he actually fought Wlad "He has everything that you need to be a world champion, but he has no heart. He's like a girl."

To which Wladimir responded with....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UjUMmsrSKs

" I don't think he realized he was playing in the champions league."

If you type a lot and hide the answers that does not count. :)

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Originally Posted by Master

If you type a lot and hide the answers that does not count. :)

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CHRIS BYRD x 2

SAM PETER x 2

TONY THOMPSON x 2

RUSLAN CHAGAEV (short notice for both fighters)

KUBRAT PULEV

DAVID HAYE


Can you read those ok gramps? Not too hidden from you are they?

That the career defining fights? I am impressed and those fights will go down in boxing folklore. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Master

That the career defining fights? I am impressed and those fights will go down in boxing folklore. :rolleyes:

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I'm sorry Master, but those guys were good fighters whether you accept it or not and Wladimir beat the fuck out of them. Chris Byrd had survived Vitali's punches to win the WBO title, he then lost that title to Wlad. Then before the rematch Chris Byrd was then the longest reigning title holder at the time and Wladimir KO'd him with Byrd attempting to utilize Lamon Brewster's blueprint of pouring on the pressure. Sam Peter was the most dangerous fighter in the division when Wlad was at his lowest point, yeah that fight pretty much defines Wlad's career as it is the turning point for his entire career. Tony Thompson never stopped, never down, Wlad KO's him, then KO's him earlier in the rematch. The Chagaev fight was a huge fight, it was on short notice for both fighters as Haye and Valuev the douchebags they are had pulled out of their fights with Wlad and the aforementioned Chagaev. Pulev was undefeated he had been giving out boxing lessons left right and center and Wlad stopped him easily. David Haye talked his way into stardom and got dealt with in a boxing clinic.

Those are big fights, Wlad won them, Wlad is an all time great and you can sit around waiting hoping and praying for another Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson or whoever......they aren't coming back.

I will give you Sam Peters because he showed heart and courage and I said he is an ATG but not the greatest.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Cooney 6'5 25-0 23 ko's Walking through Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young- he was a massive specimen with a power punch & a chin. Yet Holmes proved his skill level could nullify, height, jab & power. -& when Cooney hurt him to the body, will power pulled him out- thats what he questions about Wlad--even stating Wlad is good technically, but theres more to boxing than skill.

Holmes proved at the time a 6'5 boxer which was massive, could be whooped....

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Gerry Cooney was tough but wins over old Ron Lyle and old Ken Norton and old Jimmy Young did not mean he was ready for Larry Holmes. Cooney was 25-0-0 but he had never been tested by a guy in his prime at the time, he didn't fight Marvis Frazier or Carl Williams, or Renaldo Snipes or Tim Witherspoon...are you kidding me?

He should've fought Marvis Frazier before Holmes? I thought Cooney fought Holmes in 1982.
In 1982 wasn't Frazier about 6-0 with no fights in 1982. Carl Williams debuted in 1982. And you ask me am I kidding?;D
Holmes stopped Marvis in (1) before Tyson did & Holmes was never-ever known for shit like that.
You think a 6'5 KO fighter would be compromised by a 6'0- barely 210lbs Marvis w/76inch reach + a 38%KO ratio 21 fights in 8 years?:confused:
Snipes would've been a good fight, but we're playing semantics here; Who he didn't fight can't determine what he would've done or not. He never fought a Snipes & Snipes never fought a 6'5 power puncher. What you've written at this point comes across as totally subjective; its your opinion. Cool, but don't call it facts he wasn't ready. The point I made which you negated was: at that time... he had 25 fights over five years in....And we hadn't seen a man that size dominate.
Spinks was the only other guy to beat him. And Forman was when he came back...
He didn't fight Witherspoon. OK, but how did he become litmus test of whose ready?

Sure he could punch but his boxing never got tested the deepest he went into a fight before Holmes was 8 rounds...8!!! And he lasted 13 with Holmes, why so long???? Couldn't Larry have ended it sooner??? Why, was he supposed to have ended it sooner? What is your point? First you say Coony didn't have boxing skills, then here you claim this non-tested boxer went 13 rounds with Holmes. Sounds like a diss' on Holmes just to debate Slim. OK, then by your admission Holmes was barely good enough to beat a non-tested boxer. Not me. I think he went 13 rounds, because I said- the kid had a chin. Did you read that? And he had will. Just like Puritty had will-will that Wlad couldn't wilt.



Purrity, for fucks sake Wlad was 22 when that fight happened. He was young,
Cassius was 22, Tyson was younger than that. You actually injected his age as a reason to him losing? Think about it...how does a 22 year kid run out of stamina before a 32 year old who had gotten his ass whizzipped about a dozen times b4?

he was beating the fuck out of Ross and just got tired,
Yeah, I know, I said it here: Wlad is throwing nicely, bustin' through Puritty's guard--see- U do one side Wlad's & that's it. I gave my opinion ALSO on Purity-- what was going through his mind? Why didn't he wilt to all that punishment like so many others? I speculate: WILL Power. You didn't bother.
That is what Holmes is talking about and a few others here who agree with him. Wlad for the umpteenth time- has defeated every type of skilled fighter. Inside, outside. But he has yet to find a dog fight like he did when he was young...and survive.



it happens ESPECIALLY to young fighters
(IMO-Not to ALL time Greats)...they fight through the fatigue. Even fat ass James Toney for example fights through fatigue...that's why Wlad is great for his era, but not necessarily an ATG.



and the fact that Wlad could go back to that fight, look at it objectively, and then correct the mistakes THAT is the sign of a true champion!
Yes it is, no complaints from me.

Ross Purrity's manager really dodged a bullet with his fighter's health allowing that fight to continue, but that's how it works sometimes. I disagree. he held a high guard and didn't really get busted up. Or did he? I dunno. Did he get beatan like Shannon Briggs? Like Lewis on Tyson? I never saw Purity look too shook. So the only luck they had..was getting the fight. Purity's WILL power did the rest.

Sanders was a power punching southpaw....imagine if Earnie Shavers was a southpaw, would Ali have fought him? Ali fought everybody, really poor comparison there.
Would Holmes have fought him?
The fact that he was a southpaw- powerpuncher means what? Every fighter has something to bring to the table--and a ATG neutralizes it.. Maybe your definition of an ATG is different than mines NP.

Sanders didn't help himself by training more on the golf course than he did in the ring, but what a talent. He threw short, quick, precise punches from a southpaw stance and they packed a wallop....Wlad wasn't out cold, Wlad didn't get counted out with his back on the canvas, he got caught, couldn't recover and that's that. He went back, took note of the mistakes he made and hasn't made them sense....
Of course..how can he? Since then he has fought guys just as talented & in some cases stronger & skilled...but to my knowledge Wlad hasn't fought a person willing to take it to the dog house.

that learning process, that ability to cover his flaws, that makes him a great fighter.
Yes he is.
Since that loss Wladimir has fought a number of southpaws and none have given him trouble...none are the puncher Corrie was (r.i.p) but none have given Wlad trouble.
Here again we disagree. You think it's about southpaw, I think he was a crude south paw who stood up, squared his shoulder, lousy stance...but his demeanor was nasssttyy!!;D That's why he won IMO.

Mike Tyson did PLENTY of clinching, Ali did PLENTY of clinching....can people not accept that Wladimir is the best heavyweight in the world? It's not by a small margin either he just absolutely tooled the best the division had to offer in Pulev, he just smacked the life out of the guy and with his 3rd best punch too!

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I'm a HOP fan , so clinching is not what I'm talking about- you've either evaded it, or I just failed to get my point across (to you): Hop, Ali &even Lennox clinched to set traps- Especially Hop, he holds with one hand and hits with the other...With Wlad? I end the way I started it: When he clinches it is usually an ass-out clinch. No effective clinch w/one hand & bopping with the other. When he is in a dog fight...He won't throw he clinches. That's not the sign of an ATG its the sign of someone trying to survive. But that's just my take.

He won't throw in clinches because it isn't smart, it doesn't suit what he does best so in using the clinch as he does he's not allowing the other fighter the chance to get into the fight.....that sounds pretty great to me

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Originally Posted by Master

Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.

The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).

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Tony Thompson
Ruslan Chagaev
Sultan Ibragimov
Samuel Peter
David Haye
Alexander Povetkin
Chris Byrd
Kubrat Pulev
Hasim Rahman...

Please tell me who has had similarly tough opponents than just this small selection right here???

If any of your favourites ever fought these guys, no matter who won or lost, they would have been considered a proof of the greatness of times past and would be heralded as the greatest names on any resume.

Each one of them smashes out almost any ATG, HOFer easily and badly.

Yet Wladimir dominated most of them...

IT doesn't get anymore "career defining" than that.

I've never been a big Wlad fan, but on the other hand Larry Holmes has always been a whining, bitter, crying little bitch.
He should just STFU and go count his money and enjoy his old age.