Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Forman comes out of retirment and called out Tyson.
Every article I found back then, seems no different that today's wondering: Cus D'amoto supposedly pointed out to Tyson that Forman's style was suited for fighters like his & Frazier's. Swarming style with limited reach.
Did this occur If so, it seems Tyson was a basket case who knew his limitations. He wasnt the baddest man on the planet. Why else would Tyson not have fought a high profile name like Forman?
Tyson turns down Millions to beat up an old geezer.
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/foreman_tyson_fl.html
Remembering the Greats: Foreman Talks Ali Rematch & Chasing Mike Tyson | Beats, Boxing and Mayhem
Looking back, Tyson fought Tony Tubbs during Forman's comeback. Tubbs lost his only high profile fight to Witherspoon.
Then he fought Holmes - a man who hadn't fought in about 2 years & lost his last 2 fights.
By 1990 Forman was about 19-0... & kept calling out Tyson. So the Tyson camp decided to fight Buster Douglas instead who wasnt even ranked top 10.
Tyson goes to jail-for a crime against a chick who later gave V.D. to some other dude-proof she was loose. I guess Tyson lost the trial because he had a lawyer who wasnt even vetted for those kinds of cases. - he didnt seem to mind IMO going to jail. Damn.
Now he is out.
Tyson fights McCneely who is totally unknown to the boxing world- yet Tyson fought him- Peter was on his ass- but the power of Tyson caught him...& his corner stopped the fight. Bullshit stoppage.
Next Tyson fights a fat meatball in Buster Mathis. His timing: horrendous. Buster Blackness, I mean Mathis, bobbed & weaved, dipped & shoulder rolled like James Toney. He got caught-dropped- ref stops it, like it was a damn exhibition. Buster Fatness, I mean Mathis got up with his faculties. B.S.
Now it comes time to fight Lennox Lewis. Lewis is ignored- takes the shit to court, but backs down- when he is offered 4$ million to allow Tyson to fight Seldon
Money Gets Lewis Out of Way for Tyson Fight - Los Angeles Times
Tyson vs Lewis: why it didn't happen(1996) [Archive] - Boxing Forum
The links above seem to show that as charismatic as Tyson was. A look of invincibility. Black shoes, black trunks, no socks. Paced the ring like an animal. He had so much of what made a HW fight exciting.
Too bad he couldnt deliver that against Forman & Lewis in his prime.
The verdict is in for me: Tyson ducked.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Yes he ducked Foreman absolutely.
I think he and Lennox missed each other a few times. Tyson had prison, Lennox had a loss to McCall then Tyson had the losses to Evander....so meeeeh can't give him shit for that.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Like you said I think Tyson knew his limitations. There's supposedly a conversation Tyson had with King (might be in one of your links, didn't read them-sorry) where tyson refuses to fight that "effin animal", Foreman. Whether its true or not, who knows. As crazy as mike acted sometimes, he knew he was in a different place and point his career and skills after the his train derailed.
Mike needed a certain level of comfort around him for that sense of invincibility to really permeate him. (it came with people, environment and satisfaction with the work he was putting in. With a perfectionist like Cus, thats stuff rubs off and mike knew when he wasnt doing stuff right) I wont go as far to say he was fearless against anyone but, whether or not he really felt scared or had a chance against some of these fighters was dependent on the time where he was asked. So at the time and place where the returning foreman came back and the uprising Lewis where being touted, I think mike new he was right and was better off avoiding these fighters. Not that a prime tyson couldn't beat them.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Tyson would have fucked up either version of Big George.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Not sure but you could see why -
He wins? He beat an old man.
He loses? An old man beat him.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Tyson would have fucked up either version of Big George.
Evander landed EVERYTHING on Big George and George took it....Cooney rang him a time or two that's a HUGE puncher right there and George took it...Moorer in his prime, fast hands, good movement until the end couldn't put George down. Shannon Briggs, Tommy Morrison....these guys are in their prime big boppers we're talking about and none of them could put George on his seat. Added to that Foreman was STILL knocking dudes out! He rocked the shit out of Holyfield! Evander said that Foreman hit him so hard his teeth rattled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mezpPEgaoTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmG_gR576EA
Also you'll note the cross blocking Foreman does vs Cooney, he had a hard time using that effectively against Holyfield because Evander moved out of range before Foreman's punches could land. Foreman switched back to a regular guard against Moorer and had much more success.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
No he did not duck Big George. Tyson may have respected Foreman, as he was a histroian and love for the fighters, he would not duck him.
Tyson was after Holyfield and wanted the title back. Holyfield were using Foreman and got a title shot out of it. If Big George had wanted to fight Tyson he could easily have done it.
Tyson fought a far more dangerous fighter in Razor.
As for Lewis, I think tyson was in jail when Lewis, Bowe and Holyfield had their meetings. When Tyson did get the title he ducked Lewis.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J_Undisputed
Like you said I think Tyson knew his limitations. There's supposedly a conversation Tyson had with King (might be in one of your links, didn't read them-sorry) where tyson refuses to fight that "effin animal", Foreman. Whether its true or not, who knows. As crazy as mike acted sometimes, he knew he was in a different place and point his career and skills after the his train derailed.
Mike needed a certain level of comfort around him for that sense of invincibility to really permeate him. (it came with people, environment and satisfaction with the work he was putting in. With a perfectionist like Cus, thats stuff rubs off and mike knew when he wasnt doing stuff right) I wont go as far to say he was fearless against anyone but, whether or not he really felt scared or had a chance against some of these fighters was dependent on the time where he was asked. So at the time and place where the returning foreman came back and the uprising Lewis where being touted, I think mike new he was right and was better off avoiding these fighters. Not that a prime tyson couldn't beat them.
Yeah the story you said about an f'in animal is one of those threads.
I was perusing through some of my old ring magazines which got me to question it. Wasn't sure if I was going to be crucified for raising the question!
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Tyson would have fucked up either version of Big George.
At the time, I think I took it like most folk: a joke. I still remember George's cracks about what shape he would come in: Round.
But looking back on it, I see it totally different and seriously wonder why that fight didn't come off- when George clearly came back during the same time as Holmes who fought Tyson: 1988.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
You don't have to sell me on Big George, he's one of my all times favourites, but I just think he was too slow to beat Tyson. It's true that he took everything from Holyfield, but then again Holmes took everything from Holyfield after Tyson blasted him out years earlier. Alex Stewart went the distance with Holyfield and was stopped late once by him, and Tyson blasted him out in 1 years earlier. You can't really compare prime Tyson to a Holyfield in terms of knockout ability IMO.
I don't think there was a HW alive who could go toe to toe with prime Tyson. Sure, guys like George and Shavers' might have had more one-punch power, but they couldn't compete with the speed or the compactness of Tyson's blows. He would have killed Joe Frazier IMO.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
With George Foreman you had everything you needed to beat Tyson at that time: chin, huge power, great jab, and a calm cool confidence that just wouldn't sit well with Tyson...Tyson liked to see fear in the eyes of his victims, in his comeback Big George was beyond Tyson's reach psychologically.
People never counted Holyfield as a puncher until he stopped Tyson and it was all timing that did Tyson in with that fight: roll with the overhand right counter with his own right.....think Foreman could have done that? I do
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
You don't have to sell me on Big George, he's one of my all times favourites, but I just think he was too slow to beat Tyson. It's true that he took everything from Holyfield, but then again Holmes took everything from Holyfield after Tyson blasted him out years earlier. Alex Stewart went the distance with Holyfield and was stopped late once by him, and Tyson blasted him out in 1 years earlier. You can't really compare prime Tyson to a Holyfield in terms of knockout ability IMO.
I don't think there was a HW alive who could go toe to toe with prime Tyson. Sure, guys like George and Shavers' might have had more one-punch power, but they couldn't compete with the speed or the compactness of Tyson's blows. He would have killed Joe Frazier IMO.
I think Holyfield stopped Stewart in the 8th? As you said, Tyson blitzed him, then Moorer had to wage a war, but stopped Stewart. Ands for whatever reason, it was Forman ..who went the distance with Stewart LOL.
I think Kabong put it best to me- Forman didn't wilt & Tyson didn't just look 4 it, he needed it.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
@ BF: my bad, you're right they fought again
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
With George Foreman you had everything you needed to beat Tyson at that time: chin, huge power, great jab, and a calm cool confidence that just wouldn't sit well with Tyson...Tyson liked to see fear in the eyes of his victims, in his comeback Big George was beyond Tyson's reach psychologically.
People never counted Holyfield as a puncher until he stopped Tyson and it was all timing that did Tyson in with that fight: roll with the overhand right counter with his own right.....think Foreman could have done that? I do
Good points regarding George's attributes like his chin, huge power, and his demeanor in the ring. Normally I'm not very intrigued about "X ducked Y" threads.... but this one I admit got me thinking. No one ever thought of Mike as ducking anybody, as he was the baddest man on the planet. But there's no telling what goes on inside the mind of great fighters.
Of the attributes mentioned above, I think George's confidence probably was the biggest ace up his sleeve. You're 100% correct in that Tyson liked to feed off his opponent's fear and doubt. George never exhibited any of that. If I had to put money on a Tyson-Foreman fight at that time, I would've been hard pressed to predict a winner, although in the end I would've probably given the slight edge to Tyson, based strictly on his speed, mobility, and sheer power. What a fight that would've been..... two hellish bangers!!
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Before Lewis fought Holyfield, Frank Bruno was grossing MORE than he was world wide. Tyson of course would fight Bruno.
As for Foreman, Tyson fought Ruddock twice and then went to jail. Came out of jail, for some tune up fights before he went for Holyfield. He didn't duck Foreman.
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
I think old Foreman is completely overrated. If you take away the one punch he landed against Moorer, with a different name he would have basically been a tough fringe contender in the 90s. Maybe Tyson was for some reason afraid of him or unwilling to make the fight, but Foreman also didn't want no part of Larry Holmes in the 90's, and that's a fact!
Re: Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?
Last time this issue came up someone posted a video of one of Tysons cohorts saying Tyson was scared of, and did not want to fight George. I loved George's comeback, gave us younger guys a chance to see a legend in the ring. Foreman is on the top of my list, I even use his grill, it's great for boneless breast of chicken.
