Did Mike Tyson duck Forman & Lewis?

[J_Undisputed]

Like you said I think Tyson knew his limitations. There's supposedly a conversation Tyson had with King (might be in one of your links, didn't read them-sorry) where tyson refuses to fight that "effin animal", Foreman. Whether its true or not, who knows. As crazy as mike acted sometimes, he knew he was in a different place and point his career and skills after the his train derailed.
Mike needed a certain level of comfort around him for that sense of invincibility to really permeate him. (it came with people, environment and satisfaction with the work he was putting in. With a perfectionist like Cus, thats stuff rubs off and mike knew when he wasnt doing stuff right) I wont go as far to say he was fearless against anyone but, whether or not he really felt scared or had a chance against some of these fighters was dependent on the time where he was asked. So at the time and place where the returning foreman came back and the uprising Lewis where being touted, I think mike new he was right and was better off avoiding these fighters. Not that a prime tyson couldn't beat them.

[Beanflicker]

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Tyson would have fucked up either version of Big George.

[AdamGB]

Not sure but you could see why -

He wins? He beat an old man.
He loses? An old man beat him.

[Master]

No he did not duck Big George. Tyson may have respected Foreman, as he was a histroian and love for the fighters, he would not duck him.

Tyson was after Holyfield and wanted the title back. Holyfield were using Foreman and got a title shot out of it. If Big George had wanted to fight Tyson he could easily have done it.

Tyson fought a far more dangerous fighter in Razor.

As for Lewis, I think tyson was in jail when Lewis, Bowe and Holyfield had their meetings. When Tyson did get the title he ducked Lewis.

[El Kabong]

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Tyson would have fucked up either version of Big George.

Evander landed EVERYTHING on Big George and George took it....Cooney rang him a time or two that's a HUGE puncher right there and George took it...Moorer in his prime, fast hands, good movement until the end couldn't put George down. Shannon Briggs, Tommy Morrison....these guys are in their prime big boppers we're talking about and none of them could put George on his seat. Added to that Foreman was STILL knocking dudes out! He rocked the shit out of Holyfield! Evander said that Foreman hit him so hard his teeth rattled.






Also you'll note the cross blocking Foreman does vs Cooney, he had a hard time using that effectively against Holyfield because Evander moved out of range before Foreman's punches could land. Foreman switched back to a regular guard against Moorer and had much more success.

[SlimTrae]

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Tyson would have fucked up either version of Big George.

At the time, I think I took it like most folk: a joke. I still remember George's cracks about what shape he would come in: Round.

But looking back on it, I see it totally different and seriously wonder why that fight didn't come off- when George clearly came back during the same time as Holmes who fought Tyson: 1988.

[SlimTrae]

Like you said I think Tyson knew his limitations. There's supposedly a conversation Tyson had with King (might be in one of your links, didn't read them-sorry) where tyson refuses to fight that "effin animal", Foreman. Whether its true or not, who knows. As crazy as mike acted sometimes, he knew he was in a different place and point his career and skills after the his train derailed.
Mike needed a certain level of comfort around him for that sense of invincibility to really permeate him. (it came with people, environment and satisfaction with the work he was putting in. With a perfectionist like Cus, thats stuff rubs off and mike knew when he wasnt doing stuff right) I wont go as far to say he was fearless against anyone but, whether or not he really felt scared or had a chance against some of these fighters was dependent on the time where he was asked. So at the time and place where the returning foreman came back and the uprising Lewis where being touted, I think mike new he was right and was better off avoiding these fighters. Not that a prime tyson couldn't beat them.

Yeah the story you said about an f'in animal is one of those threads.

I was perusing through some of my old ring magazines which got me to question it. Wasn't sure if I was going to be crucified for raising the question!

[Beanflicker]

You don't have to sell me on Big George, he's one of my all times favourites, but I just think he was too slow to beat Tyson. It's true that he took everything from Holyfield, but then again Holmes took everything from Holyfield after Tyson blasted him out years earlier. Alex Stewart went the distance with Holyfield and was stopped late once by him, and Tyson blasted him out in 1 years earlier. You can't really compare prime Tyson to a Holyfield in terms of knockout ability IMO.

I don't think there was a HW alive who could go toe to toe with prime Tyson. Sure, guys like George and Shavers' might have had more one-punch power, but they couldn't compete with the speed or the compactness of Tyson's blows. He would have killed Joe Frazier IMO.

[El Kabong]

With George Foreman you had everything you needed to beat Tyson at that time: chin, huge power, great jab, and a calm cool confidence that just wouldn't sit well with Tyson...Tyson liked to see fear in the eyes of his victims, in his comeback Big George was beyond Tyson's reach psychologically.

People never counted Holyfield as a puncher until he stopped Tyson and it was all timing that did Tyson in with that fight: roll with the overhand right counter with his own right.....think Foreman could have done that? I do

[TitoFan]

With George Foreman you had everything you needed to beat Tyson at that time: chin, huge power, great jab, and a calm cool confidence that just wouldn't sit well with Tyson...Tyson liked to see fear in the eyes of his victims, in his comeback Big George was beyond Tyson's reach psychologically.

People never counted Holyfield as a puncher until he stopped Tyson and it was all timing that did Tyson in with that fight: roll with the overhand right counter with his own right.....think Foreman could have done that? I do

Good points regarding George's attributes like his chin, huge power, and his demeanor in the ring. Normally I'm not very intrigued about "X ducked Y" threads.... but this one I admit got me thinking. No one ever thought of Mike as ducking anybody, as he was the baddest man on the planet. But there's no telling what goes on inside the mind of great fighters.

Of the attributes mentioned above, I think George's confidence probably was the biggest ace up his sleeve. You're 100% correct in that Tyson liked to feed off his opponent's fear and doubt. George never exhibited any of that. If I had to put money on a Tyson-Foreman fight at that time, I would've been hard pressed to predict a winner, although in the end I would've probably given the slight edge to Tyson, based strictly on his speed, mobility, and sheer power. What a fight that would've been..... two hellish bangers!!

[ykdadamaja]

Before Lewis fought Holyfield, Frank Bruno was grossing MORE than he was world wide. Tyson of course would fight Bruno.

As for Foreman, Tyson fought Ruddock twice and then went to jail. Came out of jail, for some tune up fights before he went for Holyfield. He didn't duck Foreman.

[p4pking]

I think old Foreman is completely overrated. If you take away the one punch he landed against Moorer, with a different name he would have basically been a tough fringe contender in the 90s. Maybe Tyson was for some reason afraid of him or unwilling to make the fight, but Foreman also didn't want no part of Larry Holmes in the 90's, and that's a fact!

[SlimTrae]

You don't have to sell me on Big George, he's one of my all times favourites, but I just think he was too slow to beat Tyson. It's true that he took everything from Holyfield, but then again Holmes took everything from Holyfield after Tyson blasted him out years earlier. Alex Stewart went the distance with Holyfield and was stopped late once by him, and Tyson blasted him out in 1 years earlier. You can't really compare prime Tyson to a Holyfield in terms of knockout ability IMO.

I don't think there was a HW alive who could go toe to toe with prime Tyson. Sure, guys like George and Shavers' might have had more one-punch power, but they couldn't compete with the speed or the compactness of Tyson's blows. He would have killed Joe Frazier IMO.

I think Holyfield stopped Stewart in the 8th? As you said, Tyson blitzed him, then Moorer had to wage a war, but stopped Stewart. Ands for whatever reason, it was Forman ..who went the distance with Stewart LOL.
I think Kabong put it best to me- Forman didn't wilt & Tyson didn't just look 4 it, he needed it.

[SlimTrae]

@ BF: my bad, you're right they fought again