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BBC Sport - Manny Pacquiao sued after shoulder injury dishonesty claims
Basically two dudes in Nevada are saying that Top Rank and company defrauded ticket buyers, gamblers, ppv buyers by not disclosing the injury to the Nevada Athletic Comision or something. They going to backtrack on their injury claims now or?
I heard about this today, seems like a massive grey area here. What kind of rules are there about disclosing injuries, does a fighter have to come forward if they have one? If so, how severe would it have to be, would the fight not then have to be postponed outright? How many fighters have covered up injuries and fought on to win, how many have come out saying they were injured only after a loss? It seems like this is only coming to light because so much money was put up on the fight, when in reality that shouldn't make any difference as far as a precedent. What if a fighter half asses it and doesn't train hard, is he then liable to be sued for people who lost money on him as well? Way to many cans of worms this could open.
Bottom line is people who bet on Pacquiao didn't know shit about boxing and deserved to lose their money:p
Couldn't agree more. Very well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
the love of manney is the source of all evil
They are required by law to disclose the injury. That's why Pac is facing suspension. It's fraud. How hard somebody trains is different, they don't sign something saying they trained hard and "hard" is variable. He wrote on his medical form that he had no injury to his shoulder and signed it. Completely different. All he had to do was check the box about shoulder injury and write partial separation in the line and he could have fought, got his shot he wanted, avoided all the drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
It's open and shut that it is fraud. The question is can they defend his fraud. Already Koncz is taking the blame to try to lessen possible issues, but Pac signed off so he is responsible. I think they will use the 2nd language to get around the problem and Koncz will get a fine and suspension. Manny a fine and a suspension shorter than the time he will be out injured. And the suits will probably be dismissed but it will still cost heavy in legal fees because the plaintiffs are right. So it will take good lawyering.
It is very interesting from a legal point of view. Thus far we have ppv viewers wanting to sue as they didn't get there moneys worth and legal betters maybe joining a class action lawsuit for fraud for the undisclosed injury that would have changed the odds. Many could claim he didn't think the injury would impede his ability to beat Floyd but the fact he didn't check the injury box on the form prior to the fight definitely adds a legal twist to this. Civil proceedings require a much less burden of proof to be successful. I don't think ppv viewers will have much of a case wanting five million because the fight wasn't competitive enough due to Mannys injury but the betters in Vegas may have a legitimate claim.
Despite what someone else here posted a torn rotator cuff doesn't prevent a Person from moving there arm but does cause pain and would certainly take away power. Perhaps when Manny received his anti inflammatory shots he felt he could function well enough to perform in the ring. I had a torn tendon in my leg and prior to surgery I had the shots and they did work amazingly well but of course I wasn't in the ring fighting one of the best boxers in the world. Either way had Manny postponed the fight the Manny haters would have been up in arms here on the forum so it's difficult to have a relevant conversation here about it. Do we have any US lawyers as members here. What I am curious about is the legal going ons of this, not just the arguing about it here. The argument, of course it was fraud you idiot midget may work here but I'm curious about the court systems view on this. If anything, maybe it will be settled out of court with a non disclosure clause. It was reported that Arum stated Manny had an injury that may play a result in the outcome of this fight, and he said it prior to the fight. So that means the big guys knew and let the fight happen. Floyd may have known the way he was wrapping Mannys arm up but I don't know what Floyd knew. Just more controversy after a controversial fight. After all this there will probably still be over two million buys in a rematch unless Manny gets a long suspension which I have heard is possible. Edit it would also be interesting to see what Mannys physician said about the his ability to fight. Was he given the green light by medical or was he advised to postpone the fight for surgery.
Fair enough, I wen't on a big of a tangent. So say he had signed off on the form declaring he had an injury, is the commission then required to make that information public, for potential betters to see in time? Unless the injury was so bad he couldn't fight(it clearly wasn't) then maybe it's just tough shit? Don't exactly shed tears for people who lose money gambling in any fashion, mind you. Wagering on boxing is pretty much asking to get fucked over when you take everything into consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThey are required by law to disclose the injury. That's why Pac is facing suspension. It's fraud. How hard somebody trains is different, they don't sign something saying they trained hard and "hard" is variable. He wrote on his medical form that he had no injury to his shoulder and signed it. Completely different. All he had to do was check the box about shoulder injury and write partial separation in the line and he could have fought, got his shot he wanted, avoided all the drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
It's open and shut that it is fraud. The question is can they defend his fraud. Already Koncz is taking the blame to try to lessen possible issues, but Pac signed off so he is responsible. I think they will use the 2nd language to get around the problem and Koncz will get a fine and suspension. Manny a fine and a suspension shorter than the time he will be out injured. And the suits will probably be dismissed but it will still cost heavy in legal fees because the plaintiffs are right. So it will take good lawyering.
The committee said they were made aware of the injury at 6:08 or 6:30 The reason he didn't get the shot was not because of not checking the box but because the commission didn't have time to review the MRI. They have now seen them. Doesn't excuse Manny not checking the box although in the article it says TR filled it out and didn't check the box. Bottom line is it should have been checked no matter who filled it out. Manny shouldn't be allowing others to sign or fill out his papers if that is indeed what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingFair enough, I wen't on a big of a tangent. So say he had signed off on the form declaring he had an injury, is the commission then required to make that information public, for potential betters to see in time? Unless the injury was so bad he couldn't fight(it clearly wasn't) then maybe it's just tough shit? Don't exactly shed tears for people who lose money gambling in any fashion, mind you. Wagering on boxing is pretty much asking to get fucked over when you take everything into consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThey are required by law to disclose the injury. That's why Pac is facing suspension. It's fraud. How hard somebody trains is different, they don't sign something saying they trained hard and "hard" is variable. He wrote on his medical form that he had no injury to his shoulder and signed it. Completely different. All he had to do was check the box about shoulder injury and write partial separation in the line and he could have fought, got his shot he wanted, avoided all the drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
It's open and shut that it is fraud. The question is can they defend his fraud. Already Koncz is taking the blame to try to lessen possible issues, but Pac signed off so he is responsible. I think they will use the 2nd language to get around the problem and Koncz will get a fine and suspension. Manny a fine and a suspension shorter than the time he will be out injured. And the suits will probably be dismissed but it will still cost heavy in legal fees because the plaintiffs are right. So it will take good lawyering.
Koncz filled it out, Manny signed it. In case the article doesn't state that. At least that is what Koncz says
Why that little 'F'. He's nothing but a ******.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Bill Paxtom had enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomWhy that little 'F'. He's nothing but a ******.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
of this Sworn Bluff
about a torn rotator cuff!
Pac might be forced to admit the injury is bogus;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThey are required by law to disclose the injury. That's why Pac is facing suspension. It's fraud. How hard somebody trains is different, they don't sign something saying they trained hard and "hard" is variable. He wrote on his medical form that he had no injury to his shoulder and signed it. Completely different. All he had to do was check the box about shoulder injury and write partial separation in the line and he could have fought, got his shot he wanted, avoided all the drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
It's open and shut that it is fraud. The question is can they defend his fraud. Already Koncz is taking the blame to try to lessen possible issues, but Pac signed off so he is responsible. I think they will use the 2nd language to get around the problem and Koncz will get a fine and suspension. Manny a fine and a suspension shorter than the time he will be out injured. And the suits will probably be dismissed but it will still cost heavy in legal fees because the plaintiffs are right. So it will take good lawyering.
Yeah, that would be crazyQuote:
Originally Posted by corvettePac might be forced to admit the injury is bogus that would be like me admitting I'm a gay troll who says the same thing over and over;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThey are required by law to disclose the injury. That's why Pac is facing suspension. It's fraud. How hard somebody trains is different, they don't sign something saying they trained hard and "hard" is variable. He wrote on his medical form that he had no injury to his shoulder and signed it. Completely different. All he had to do was check the box about shoulder injury and write partial separation in the line and he could have fought, got his shot he wanted, avoided all the drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
It's open and shut that it is fraud. The question is can they defend his fraud. Already Koncz is taking the blame to try to lessen possible issues, but Pac signed off so he is responsible. I think they will use the 2nd language to get around the problem and Koncz will get a fine and suspension. Manny a fine and a suspension shorter than the time he will be out injured. And the suits will probably be dismissed but it will still cost heavy in legal fees because the plaintiffs are right. So it will take good lawyering.
Yeah man it's a tough one and I don't know I'm not a lawyer.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
It seems silly... but you can also kind of see it in this case because there's no law against not training hard, but I think it is illegal to lie on those injury forms to the AC, which is a government entity after all.
I mean if their lawyers can prove that, hey, all these people paid 100$ for PPV and others paid 5 or 6 figures for tickets to what was billed as the fight of the century, and one guy ADMITS that he had an injury that would prevent him from fighting to his full potential... I dunno it's a weird area, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Either way... not a great few days for Pacquiao (outside of the mega payday of course).
Did you read that in the espn article, I must have missed that, I figured Manny would need to sign it but didn't know if his camp had the power to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I can't remember where I read it, I think boxingscene has quotes from him. I know I read a direct quote from Koncz saying he filled it out and Pac signed off on it. I'm sorry I don't have the exact place to find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusDid you read that in the espn article, I must have missed that, I figured Manny would need to sign it but didn't know if his camp had the power to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
No worries, I've read about ten different articles myself. It's hard to keep up with. I'm just trying to stay on top of this as it is a real drama show. Thanks for the replyQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI can't remember where I read it, I think boxingscene has quotes from him. I know I read a direct quote from Koncz saying he filled it out and Pac signed off on it. I'm sorry I don't have the exact place to find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusDid you read that in the espn article, I must have missed that, I figured Manny would need to sign it but didn't know if his camp had the power to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson