Eubank, Benn, Watson and the last golden era of British boxing.

No Middle Ground by Sanjeev Shetty is the book.

This is an interesting book I have been reading over the holidays and I will post areas which I fund interesting in the book as I finish reading it. It brought back nostalgic memories of when i was an avid fan.

When Benn wanted to leave Frank Warren for Ambrose Mendy, they had to use Frank Maloney as the promoter as Mendy did not have a licence.

Benn wanted to fight Herol Graham and said he would beat him and go for his body but mendy said Watson would be easier to beat.

Benn turned down $3million to fight Nunn when Nigel was undefeated Commonwealth champion because he had only been a professional for 2 years and was not ready.

Benn’s mum went to the Logan fight and did not attend another fight again as she cried for someone to stop hitting her son.

Watson had a younger brother who miraculously survived a car accident as a child.

Watson was a painter, decorator and cab driver during the early professional boxing career.

I forgot that Watson lost to James Cook early in his pro career when he took the veteran too lightly.

Watson and Jim McDonnell , fellow friends in the same stable and Arsenal fans, put bets on that they would win their fights against Benn and Barry McGuigan and Arsenal to win the title which all happened in 1989.

NBC bought the Benn v Watson fight to show.

The late Bernie Grant suggested Finsbury park under a tent for the venue Benn v Watson.

Mendy used the phrase “Who’s bad” for the fight and was going to be sued by Jackson’s until he offered them 10 tickets.

Marsh was in Benn’s camp when he was charged with the shooting of Frank Warren.

Watson broke his nose for the Mike McCallum fight which led to a delay. Mike fought Steve Collins in the interim and Watson was denied any warm up fight.

Those three were a great rivalry and it is sad that many "fans" on my side of the pond never took much interest in them. They all matched up well and their fights/rivalries were easily the equivalent of the Hagler-Leonard-Hearns, or similar rivalries. Imagine if James Toney, Mike McAllum, and Julian Jackson had been thrown in that mix!!!!

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

Those three were a great rivalry and it is sad that many "fans" on my side of the pond never took much interest in them. They all matched up well and their fights/rivalries were easily the equivalent of the Hagler-Leonard-Hearns, or similar rivalries. Imagine if James Toney, Mike McAllum, and Julian Jackson had been thrown in that mix!!!!

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The fights never happened because they were not good enough. Only Benn had the bottle to go to USA.

I've always felt that Watson was the most talented of the group. Still do.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I've always felt that Watson was the most talented of the group. Still do.

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These 3 were not the best in the country at the time never mind the world. Herol Graham was.

I'm still surprised at how big the trio surpassed boarders and were so visible at the time considering no web and all. It seemed even down here Benn and Eubank fights were being aired on any random obscure channel. Benn did well to totally take it on the road after Watson pulled his curtain back, rebuild in the States on free TV and cap it off back home. More than a benefit to a division or with respect, homeland, the sport as a whole was far better for trio.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I've always felt that Watson was the most talented of the group. Still do.

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These 3 were not the best in the country at the time never mind the world. Herol Graham was.

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Could be but even though their careers sort of overlapped they sorta didn't. He retired or stopped boxing for over 4 years in the early 90's right when the other crew was in stride other then Watson whose career was cut short.

When I think of the Fab 4 in relationship to British boxing its always been Benn, Eubank, Collins and Watson. When I think of the 4 Horseman on this side its Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran. In reality I suppose it should be 5 because of Benitez and equally deserving the Fab 5

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I've always felt that Watson was the most talented of the group. Still do.

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These 3 were not the best in the country at the time never mind the world. Herol Graham was.

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Could be but even though their careers sort of overlapped they sorta didn't. He retired or stopped boxing for over 4 years in the early 90's right when the other crew was in stride other then Watson whose career was cut short.

When I think of the Fab 4 in relationship to British boxing its always been Benn, Eubank, Collins and Watson. When I think of the 4 Horseman on this side its Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran. In reality I suppose it should be 5 because of Benitez and equally deserving the Fab 5

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thing is it was benn and eubank really

yeah Watson was there and probably was the best out of the three but people really wanted to see the benn and eubank fights

I don't think Collins can be added to that, he came along at the end when both fighters had had their day

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Originally Posted by erics44

thing is it was benn and eubank really

yeah Watson was there and probably was the best out of the three but people really wanted to see the benn and eubank fights

I don't think Collins can be added to that, he came along at the end when both fighters had had their day

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I remember Watson being very popular. He even was allowed the McCallum slip up. He was not as brash as Benn or Eubank, but that worked in his favour. He was very much the equal in the popularity stakes at least down here in London.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by erics44

thing is it was benn and eubank really

yeah Watson was there and probably was the best out of the three but people really wanted to see the benn and eubank fights

I don't think Collins can be added to that, he came along at the end when both fighters had had their day

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I remember Watson being very popular. He even was allowed the McCallum slip up. He was not as brash as Benn or Eubank, but that worked in his favour. He was very much the equal in the popularity stakes at least down here in London.

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yep I can understand that, I'm from the north and Watson wasn't a name with the casual fan, not like Benn Eubank anyway

I think all three would be bigger stars now, even without each other

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I've always felt that Watson was the most talented of the group. Still do.

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These 3 were not the best in the country at the time never mind the world. Herol Graham was.

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Could be but even though their careers sort of overlapped they sorta didn't. He retired or stopped boxing for over 4 years in the early 90's right when the other crew was in stride other then Watson whose career was cut short.

When I think of the Fab 4 in relationship to British boxing its always been Benn, Eubank, Collins and Watson. When I think of the 4 Horseman on this side its Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran. In reality I suppose it should be 5 because of Benitez and equally deserving the Fab 5

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thing is it was benn and eubank really

yeah Watson was there and probably was the best out of the three but people really wanted to see the benn and eubank fights

I don't think Collins can be added to that, he came along at the end when both fighters had had their day

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Interesting POV regarding Collins. He is/was tricky for me to rank/gauge. I always considered Collins to be the major threat to Roy during those times, but I'm not sure if if that was the case.

I agree that Collins beat Benn and Eubank when both were past their best: Eubank never seemed the same to me after crippling Watson, and Benn seemed done after so many wars (the worst being the McLellan fight). That being said, Collins always struck me as that guy who overcame his limitations (speed/athleticism) with elite stamina, strength, mental toughness (I remember he would get hypnotized and that unsettled Eubank), and self confidence. In other words, I think of Collins as Carl Froch with slightly less punching power.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I've always felt that Watson was the most talented of the group. Still do.

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These 3 were not the best in the country at the time never mind the world. Herol Graham was.

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Could be but even though their careers sort of overlapped they sorta didn't. He retired or stopped boxing for over 4 years in the early 90's right when the other crew was in stride other then Watson whose career was cut short.

When I think of the Fab 4 in relationship to British boxing its always been Benn, Eubank, Collins and Watson. When I think of the 4 Horseman on this side its Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran. In reality I suppose it should be 5 because of Benitez and equally deserving the Fab 5

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thing is it was benn and eubank really

yeah Watson was there and probably was the best out of the three but people really wanted to see the benn and eubank fights

I don't think Collins can be added to that, he came along at the end when both fighters had had their day

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Interesting POV regarding Collins. He is/was tricky for me to rank/gauge. I always considered Collins to be the major threat to Roy during those times, but I'm not sure if if that was the case.

I agree that Collins beat Benn and Eubank when both were past their best: Eubank never seemed the same to me after crippling Watson, and Benn seemed done after so many wars (the worst being the McLellan fight). That being said, Collins always struck me as that guy who overcame his limitations (speed/athleticism) with elite stamina, strength, mental toughness (I remember he would get hypnotized and that unsettled Eubank), and self confidence. In other words, I think of Collins as Carl Froch with slightly less punching power.

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I can kind of see the connection but totally different styles

You could argue Eubank was still somewhere near his best when Collins beat him, he was still unbeaten after all

but you are right, he was never the same after Watson and hadn't looked good at all in the lead up to Collins as far as I remember

when Collins and benn fought benn was miles past his best, it was a couple of those end of career fights a lot of great fighters have

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I've always felt that Watson was the most talented of the group. Still do.

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These 3 were not the best in the country at the time never mind the world. Herol Graham was.

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Could be but even though their careers sort of overlapped they sorta didn't. He retired or stopped boxing for over 4 years in the early 90's right when the other crew was in stride other then Watson whose career was cut short.

When I think of the Fab 4 in relationship to British boxing its always been Benn, Eubank, Collins and Watson. When I think of the 4 Horseman on this side its Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran. In reality I suppose it should be 5 because of Benitez and equally deserving the Fab 5

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thing is it was benn and eubank really

yeah Watson was there and probably was the best out of the three but people really wanted to see the benn and eubank fights

I don't think Collins can be added to that, he came along at the end when both fighters had had their day

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I suppose from a National perspective it was that way but not for me looking in from the outside.

Collins came to UK after getting his ass handed to him by top fighters in the US the Bodysnatcher and Reggie Johnson. No way could Collins live with Jones or Toney.

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Originally Posted by Master

Collins came to UK after getting his ass handed to him by top fighters in the US the Bodysnatcher and Reggie Johnson. No way could Collins live with Jones or Toney.

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More and more Jones will have the on paper 'what ifs' with a few big name opportunities that he never pursued. Collins did well to run with and come within a point vs a far better and prime Johnson than Jones faced if anything.

Eubank would have won the rematch had the ref awarded Eubank a genuine knockdown from a body shot. Collins hoodwinked the ref in to thinking it was a slip by running up to him and giving him his gloves to wipe down.

Why was it "The last golden era of British boxing?"

The title may as well been - "When nobody had SKY/Cable, the internet or social media"

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Why was it "The last golden era of British boxing?"

The title may as well been - "When nobody had SKY/Cable, the internet or social media"

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It was when 16 million people watched boxing on free national TV. Legendary.

After 2 fights in USA, Arum signed Benn with a 5 fight deal aiming to fight ultimately Leonard or Duran with minimum $250,000 per fight.

Watson broke from Duff’s contract because he was not allowed to be his promoter and manger at the same time. This clause allowed Calzaghe to leave Duff too later on.

Benn did not rip his boxing licence on TV but was in fact cardboard from a serial box.

Chris Eubank dropped the s from his name at the start of his boxing career.

Peter Eubank beat Barry McGuigan and gave him his first professional defeat.

Chris was stopped by a body shot in his first amateur match.

Eubank never said boxing was a mugs game, his exact words were “Boxing at a very low and journeyman level is a mugs game. Taking shots around the head for a pittance is without doubt a thankless task and a mugs game”.

When Benn fought Eubank, G Man was the number 1 contender but because it was a new title and wanted to establish itself couple with G Man not having the influence Nigel fought Eubank instead. Chris never contemplated fighting G Man.

Chris Eubank accent is fake and his claim to be eloquent is all an act as he had to ask reporters if the big words he was using were correctly used.

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Originally Posted by Master

Chris Eubank dropped the s from his name at the start of his boxing career.

Peter Eubank beat Barry McGuigan and gave him his first professional defeat.

Chris was stopped by a body shot in his first amateur match.

Eubank never said boxing was a mugs game, his exact words were “Boxing at a very low and journeyman level is a mugs game. Taking shots around the head for a pittance is without doubt a thankless task and a mugs game”.

When Benn fought Eubank, G Man was the number 1 contender but because it was a new title and wanted to establish itself couple with G Man not having the influence Nigel fought Eubank instead. Chris never contemplated fighting G Man.

Chris Eubank accent is fake and his claim to be eloquent is all an act as he had to ask reporters if the big words he was using were correctly used.

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Explosive revalations!

Im now suspecting he never really needed that monacle either!

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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That was the popular perception, and I certainly remember when he was beating up Henry Wharton and asking for the ref to stop the fight because he didn't want to pull the trigger. But tbf , Wharton , although getting well beat, was a tough fucker and was taking it fairly well .
Many people, and Eubank himself would say that this is why he got beat by Collins, but the Collins fights were quite a long time after the Watson fight, and he'd fought quite a few guys inbetween, including a draw in the Benn rematch (which I thought he lost btw.)
it probably did affect him a bit, but he kept going.

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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That was the popular perception, and I certainly remember when he was beating up Henry Wharton and asking for the ref to stop the fight because he didn't want to pull the trigger. But tbf , Wharton , although getting well beat, was a tough fucker and was taking it fairly well .
Many people, and Eubank himself would say that this is why he got beat by Collins, but the Collins fights were quite a long time after the Watson fight, and he'd fought quite a few guys inbetween, including a draw in the Benn rematch (which I thought he lost btw.)
it probably did affect him a bit, but he kept going.

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Quite a long time?

It was only 3.5 years later!

Is there a time limit where putting someone in a coma stops affecting you?

He had 14 ffights inbetween and bar the stunning one punch KO of Jarvis they all went 12 rounds.

I think he was still affected, you only need to see his reaction to Collins sagging through the ropes when he dropped him in the tenth. Plus with that many world title fights travelling all over and all going 12 in such a short period I think he was a bit jaded and maybe struggling with the weight.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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That was the popular perception, and I certainly remember when he was beating up Henry Wharton and asking for the ref to stop the fight because he didn't want to pull the trigger. But tbf , Wharton , although getting well beat, was a tough fucker and was taking it fairly well .
Many people, and Eubank himself would say that this is why he got beat by Collins, but the Collins fights were quite a long time after the Watson fight, and he'd fought quite a few guys inbetween, including a draw in the Benn rematch (which I thought he lost btw.)
it probably did affect him a bit, but he kept going.

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Quite a long time?

Yes, in a boxing career, that is quite a long time , is it not?

It was only 3.5 years later!

Correct, read above comment.

Is there a time limit where putting someone in a coma stops affecting you?

Absolutely not. like I said in my post , there were signs when he fought Wharton that it affected him.

He had 14 ffights inbetween and bar the stunning one punch KO of Jarvis they all went 12 rounds.

Correct again, your point is ? bear in mind, I didn't say it never affected him.

I think he was still affected, you only need to see his reaction to Collins sagging through the ropes when he dropped him in the tenth. Plus with that many world title fights travelling all over and all going 12 in such a short period I think he was a bit jaded and maybe struggling with the weight.

I'm not disagreeing with you , infact if you read the last line of my post (I know you find it difficult to concentrate enough to read my "essays") , you would realise that I said it probably did affect him a bit , of course it would. However , there were probably other factors as well , which you admitted in the last line of your post!

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I'm struggling to see why you questioned my post, apart from the predictable irrational defence of one of your Bum Chums as per usual. :cool::D

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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As Ross said it did make a difference and most of his fights went to points after that and he did not want to finish off his opponent. I read in his book that it did affect him and some woman shouted at him that it should have been him in that coma.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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As Ross said it did make a difference and most of his fights went to points after that and he did not want to finish off his opponent. I read in his book that it did affect him and some woman shouted at him that it should have been him in that coma.

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There is also a lesser known incident that his range rovers handbrake failed when he parked it and it rolled in to a road worker and killed them. Hes had some bad luck has Eubank and doesnt deserve alot of the crap he gets. Alot of it is jealousy. British people cant help themselves but berate anyone who believes in themselves and has the bollocks to dare to put their money where their mouth is and then go and win!

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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As Ross said it did make a difference and most of his fights went to points after that and he did not want to finish off his opponent. I read in his book that it did affect him and some woman shouted at him that it should have been him in that coma.

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There is also a lesser known incident that his range rovers handbrake failed when he parked it and it rolled in to a road worker and killed them. Hes had some bad luck has Eubank and doesnt deserve alot of the crap he gets. Alot of it is jealousy. British people cant help themselves but berate anyone who believes in themselves and has the bollocks to dare to put their money where their mouth is and then go and win!

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I heard about that death but was not 100% sure. That is very sad.

Even against Carl Thompson he did not finish him off.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Did Eubank fight different after something happened to wastson i am not sure what it was i really only know about Calzghe at smw well. Was there something that happened that eneded up changing the way that guy fought like he was tad more passive or something.

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As Ross said it did make a difference and most of his fights went to points after that and he did not want to finish off his opponent. I read in his book that it did affect him and some woman shouted at him that it should have been him in that coma.

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There is also a lesser known incident that his range rovers handbrake failed when he parked it and it rolled in to a road worker and killed them. Hes had some bad luck has Eubank and doesnt deserve alot of the crap he gets. Alot of it is jealousy. British people cant help themselves but berate anyone who believes in themselves and has the bollocks to dare to put their money where their mouth is and then go and win!

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First and foremost, I don't expect you to read all of this because you probably haven't got sufficient powers of concentration.
Secondly, I am not a Eubank Sr. Hater. One of my friends met him and said that he was a really nice guy. Another guy I know fought him in the Amateurs and he remembers him now and at one of those boxing charity do's , insisted that he sat on the top table with him and some other top ex Pro's. So he's probably a sound guy.
However, I don't understand "what crap he gets". I think he's a bit of a sap at times, but that's for show.
I have to say his Son is a complete twat though, and that isn't put on.

Is Likes Eubanks Juniors

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Originally Posted by erics44

Is Likes Eubanks Juniors

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I have told you not to drink and post before. You are at work as well.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

Is Likes Eubanks Juniors

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I have told you not to drink and post before. You are at work as well.

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the only time I post is when I'm at work because I have nothing better to do ;)

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

Is Likes Eubanks Juniors

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I have told you not to drink and post before. You are at work as well.

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the only time I post is when I'm at work because I have nothing better to do ;)

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You are lucky I am not allowed.

It was a golden era indeed, Saturday night fights on terrestrial TV to boot.

It would have been even more golden had any of them fought Herol Graham, who arguably would have beaten them all with both hands tied behind his back!!:D

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Originally Posted by Syntax Error

It was a golden era indeed, Saturday night fights on terrestrial TV to boot.

It would have been even more golden had any of them fought Herol Graham, who arguably would have beaten them all with both hands tied behind his back!!:D

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That is true but these 3 gave some great fights against one another and millions watched. Great memories which the channel 5, Dave, promoters Hennessey, Mcguigan and boxers Haye, Fury Eubank are trying to revive.

what happened to graham, why didn't he fight any of them?

If Herol Grahm was as good as everyone thinks he was he would have won a world title but unfortunately he didnt have the touness to go with his skill. Even Khan knows how to get through a fight (sometimes).

Ben and Eubank have both come from being behind to doing serious damage to their opponents, Graham would have been no different.

Eubank got bashed up in sparring by Graham and decided he would never fight Graham as he could not hit him.

Benn was fearless but his management (Ambrose Mendy) thought he would lose.

Watson never showed any interest either.

Graham during this time lost to McCallum, ref unfairly deducted a point off him, which would have meant a draw, beat Douglas who was another version of Benn and lost to Julian Jackson so could not command the big fights.