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WBA announces heavyweight tournament | Boxing News | Fightnews
To me it seems as though there is now no true champion until this tournament is completed. I get the whole only wanting one champ part, but to strip Fury is a complete farce!! Maybe I'm missing something but that's how it seems to me!!
I don't think they've stripped him, they just have the stupid two belts at heavyweight, maybe they are planning on doing away with the one chagaev has before they re split them again in a couple months :S...
Like the look of ortiz being on the same side of the tournament as fury/wladimir.
Yes he wants to ditch the 'Regular' and 'Interim' straps but surely they could just take them, take Fury and Klit out of the tournament and have the winner face the winner of the tournament?Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
I just don't see how Fury could honour this tournament and his mandatory for WBO too. If he hasn't already I've got a feeling this only ends with Fury losing another belt, even if he beats Klitschko again.
Don't think they'll strip him but the winner will have to jump through a few hoops to be deemed "real" champ, which is really just an opportunity to collect a boat load of sanctioning fees. They should keep it simple enough and go straight to Oquendo-Chagaev rematch, only this time keep the Chechen President out of his corner FFS. Ortiz has already won not one but three interim title fights and be great if he gets Fury-Wlad winner.
I think the WBA have clearly established themself as the worst of the whole lot, they have 3 champions in some cases. Mind you as the belts don't affect us at all, anything that makes big fights more likely to happen is great. I think Luis Ortiz would spark Fury, fun fun fight though.
its a bit lopsided that tourney innit
It's because a U.S. court has demanded that after being banned for drugs Fres Oquendo MUST be involved! WTF that is about I'll never know. Wouldn't be surprised to see Haye now offer him big money to fight and try and get himself involved in the tournament. Looks as though Hearn is steering Joshua well away from Haye at the minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Oquendo is garbage and shouldn't be anywhere near even a discussion about a HW belt.
What a load of bollocks. They create a diabolical mess handing out muti belts per division then decide it needs cleaning up. So if Fury - who is THE champ regardless of what shitty alphabet he has - beats Wlad yet doesn't face the winner of Ortiz-Ustinov (which will be Ortiz) they'll strip him.
Meanwhile in the other half Fres 'funking' Oquendo is sitting there with a bye waiting for the winner of a couple of plodders.
Fury should bin the belt.
Yeah, but the fact is , just like Brook, he needs the Belts.
I wouldn't put it past him binning the belt, but it would be a bad career move. If Fury doesn't have the belts, a lot of the money men in Boxing will just ignore him. That would be just the excuse they need. Sometimes, you just have to suck up all the bullshit.
Very few Boxers can dictate things without belts.
He's still got the WBO. And everyone in boxing - publications/media/TV - knows he's THE champ.
The WBA are saying they'll strip him if he doesn't follow their tournament. He's not gonna fight Ortiz if a massive money fight with the likes of Wilder or Haye or AJ can happen. Those fights are worth a billion times more than an Ortiz fight.
So the WBA have engineered a way for two confirmed drug cheats to potentially clash in the final of a tournament designed to clean things up?
Couldn't make it up could you.
Fury's next fight maybe one to regain a belt he's been stripped of hell the guy has had a job done on him
for sure, Vit and Wlad were injured for a age and never got stripped something stinks.:mad:
One things for sure no one will take his batman utility belt
I feel sorry for Fury.
Fury can have 1 title and still be regarded as the best. It helps having all of them but if they are being unreasoable then there is very little Fury can do.
It also makes you appreciate Wlad being able to keep them all together.
Tyson doesnt need any titles to be the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Absolutely no one thought Wilder was better than Klitschko and Klitschko was seen as miles better than everyone. Tyson has beaten him easily and is now the best heavyweight in the world.
Trust me , Fury needs at least one belt. That way he can still say he's the champion and nobody took the belts in the ring and he can earn good dollar.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossTyson doesnt need any titles to be the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Absolutely no one thought Wilder was better than Klitschko and Klitschko was seen as miles better than everyone. Tyson has beaten him easily and is now the best heavyweight in the world.
If he has no belts, especially if he doesn't lose them in the ring, he will become the chairman of the "who needs him" club. Why would anybody fight him? What's to gain from fighting him?
Example , would Joshua fight him? No. Hearn has already distanced Joshua from a Haye fight unless Haye has a World title.
Would Haye fight him? Probably yeah (we'll agree to disagree on that.)
Would Fury fight Haye? No. He's already said that because he thinks Haye is a cunt. Understandable, but not very helpful.
Would Wilder fight him? No, because he doesn't have a title, therefore he doesn't bring the money, high risk low reward.
Who would want to fight him?
Dining out on being "the man that beat the man" won't last that long.
Btw , none of this is a criticism of Fury, it's just the way it is unfortunately.
Well believe it or not I dont think its going to be long before Tyson is THE money man in the division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraTrust me , Fury needs at least one belt. That way he can still say he's the champion and nobody took the belts in the ring and he can earn good dollar.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossTyson doesnt need any titles to be the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Absolutely no one thought Wilder was better than Klitschko and Klitschko was seen as miles better than everyone. Tyson has beaten him easily and is now the best heavyweight in the world.
If he has no belts, especially if he doesn't lose them in the ring, he will become the chairman of the "who needs him" club. Why would anybody fight him? What's to gain from fighting him?
Example , would Joshua fight him? No. Hearn has already distanced Joshua from a Haye fight unless Haye has a World title.
Would Haye fight him? Probably yeah (we'll agree to disagree on that.)
Would Fury fight Haye? No. He's already said that because he thinks Haye is a cunt. Understandable, but not very helpful.
Would Wilder fight him? No, because he doesn't have a title, therefore he doesn't bring the money, high risk low reward.
Who would want to fight him?
Dining out on being "the man that beat the man" won't last that long.
Btw , none of this is a criticism of Fury, it's just the way it is unfortunately.
I see his star building like Mayweathers. Although even Mayweather needed 8 years of world title fights before he became a pay per view fighter!
Tyson I think is now alongside Klitschko the most well known Heavyweight among casuals around the world for various reasons. What I mean by that is Haye and Joshua sell in Britain but put them in America and do they draw the same? Wilder v Fury would sell more than Wilder v Joshua or Haye in America.
HBO are airing a show about Tyson next week http://www.boxingscene.com/tyson-fur...gumbel--100541
People are just cottoning on to how good and interesting he is. Hes brought this to their attention himself as im sure you will agree Henessey has not put the promotion behind him that both Jishua and Haye have had the benefit of. I used this phrase alot previously regarding Tyson but people could not see the wood for the trees.
At this moment in time , Wilder v Fury would sell more than Wilder v Haye or Joshua, but only because Fury IS World Champion.
And Besides, Wilder hasn't convinced the States yet either, that's why last weekend he was adamant that he would be more than happy to come over here for a Fury fight. There's more money for him here than in the States at the moment.
If Fury didn't have a title, Wilder wouldn't give him a second glance.
Haye had the benefit of big promotion? He and Adam Booth went alone from the start, fighting on several different small hall promoters bills. He's never been with a superpower promotional outfit.
Fury is an excellent self-promoter. His fame has nothing to do with his boxing skill.
If Fury is the new Floyd (lol) I suggest he needs to start by moving to Vegas.
Well as experienced as you are at managing world class fighters I think Fury is doing fine. Hes only 27 and has years ahead of him and his first world title fight was in front of 50 odd thousand fans, a pay per view (younger than Floyd in his first pay per view) and beating an all time great to boot. Hes also the most talked about fighter in the world;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I never said Fury wasn't doing well.
If he's the next Mayweather - as you confidently claim - then he's gonna make hundreds of millions and reign unbeaten for donkey's years. Therefore, to make the dough, he needs Las Vegas casinos and American PPV TV money.
So far he's never single-handedly headlined/carried a major show in Britain. The 50,000 German fans were Wlad's, hence why Fury has to go back to Germany. It was reported that AJ-Whyte did more PPV buys than Fury-Wlad.
He's definitely the most talked about fighter in your head.
Where did I say hes the next Mayweather?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Hes already one up on Mayweather in his career path anyway, beating Klitschko is better than beating Gerano Hernandez.
I said his career will build like Mayweathers (you can clearly see I said that but chose to interperate ad you please) where not many took much notice at the start of their career but as time goes on he will be huge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossWhere did I say hes the next Mayweather?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Hes already one up on Mayweather in his career path anyway, beating Klitschko is better than beating Gerano Hernandez.
I said his career will build like Mayweathers (you can clearly see I said that but chose to interperate ad you please) where not many took much notice at the start of their career but as time goes on he will be huge.
Trust me , Floyd was always a superstar in the making and when he turned pro, everyone took notice. He was World Champ in his 18th Fight and within 2 years of turning pro and at a younger age than Tyson Fury as well as winning an Olympic Bronze medal , where he was controversially robbed.
I don't know how or where he is one up on Mayweather's career path?
please note , I'm not making the comparison, you are. I'm just justifying my comments.
Mayweather was a world champ for 8 years before he was pay par view material and then he needed Gattis name to do that.
Come on we all know HW boxing has always generated the most money as a rule than any other divisions , more non boxing fans are more likely to know who is HW champ than a lower weight all time great.
That's a very tenuous and embarrassing comparison and shows a distinct lack of rationale.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
But to answer it, You , I and everyone on this forum knows that there is a world of difference being ppv in the UK and ppv in the States. They're not as daft as to shell out money for old rope like we do.
I don't think Bellew v Cleverley would be ppv in the States.:rolleyes:
Very , very , few fighters are ppv in the States.
If that is where Fury is outscoring Floyd , well , keep trying, eh Ross!;D;D
They have to create a ppv star, that is how the business model works, even if they are not worthy. Joshua is being moulded in that role over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraThat's a very tenuous and embarrassing comparison and shows a distinct lack of rationale.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
But to answer it, You , I and everyone on this forum knows that there is a world of difference being ppv in the UK and ppv in the States. They're not as daft as to shell out money for old rope like we do.
I don't think Bellew v Cleverley would be ppv in the States.:rolleyes:
Very , very , few fighters are ppv in the States.
If that is where Fury is outscoring Floyd , well , keep trying, eh Ross!;D;D
You made the comparison between Fury and Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
So what you meant was - in say 10 years time Fury will be boxing's biggest superstar, still unbeaten and the richest fighter on the planet? Fair enough, time will tell.
At the moment Fury has to prove he's not Buster Douglas.
I'd stop bringing up the PPV thing if I was you. If you're gonna judge fighters by the speed they achieved PPV status then AJ has become a PPV fighter in 2 years. Fury is yet to be the A-side on a major promotion.
Yes he has to prove it wasn't a flash in the pan like buster, let's face it wlad landed 4punches per round and went 12 rounds , this is a fighter who had been stopped 3 times in the past and the last time was 11 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou made the comparison between Fury and Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
So what you meant was - in say 10 years time Fury will be boxing's biggest superstar, still unbeaten and the richest fighter on the planet? Fair enough, time will tell.
At the moment Fury has to prove he's not Buster Douglas.
I'd stop bringing up the PPV thing if I was you. If you're gonna judge fighters by the speed they achieved PPV status then AJ has become a PPV fighter in 2 years. Fury is yet to be the A-side on a major promotion.
You can only beat who is in front of you but wlad is 39 not exactly in his prime so let's not get carried away yet.
There is a massive difference between Mike Tysons camp in the lead up to Douglas and Wladimir Klitschkos camp for Fury.
Mike Tyson was all over the place, had sacked the tram that brought him success, was shagging prostitutes, getting drunk and high. Not training properly, getting piblicly dropped by sparring partners.
Klitschko on the other hand had all the reporters dismissing Furys chamces after watching the champ train, seeing all the facilities and sparring partners money can buy. Wladimir was focussed and professional and supposedly unbeatable. Big, big difference!
Wlad wasnt old overnight, he was still quick on his feet. He just couldnt figure out how to hit Tyson without getting hit himself pure and simple. As I said it would be before hand.
Only those who thought Tyson didnt stand a chance are the ones comsidering it may have been a fluke becuase just like Klitschko couldnt on the nigt, they just cant get their heads round it.
Also, now we are supposed to believe the division is wide open. If your counting belts and not actually who is clearly the best then maybe. Before the fight everyone said Klitschko beats everyone, now Tyson has beaten him people still think Tyson is easily beatable regardless of how effortlessly he beat Klitschko.
Read the stats and facts , fury landed an average of 7 punches per round and went the distance with a guy who had been stopped 3 times , 11 years later he loses on points?
Wlad did underestimate fury for sure , however landing 4 punches per round and finishing losing 115-112 isn't a champion going out on his shield.
Wlad was pathetic in his losing effort , the fight was a stinker and as I've said the most expensive 12 Ppv for punches landed ever.
One good win doesn't make you an all-time great. Upsets have happened throughout history and always will. To become an all-time great you have to back it up, you need a body of work.
Unless Fury backs up his win by beating his fellow top rivals he'll be seen as nothing more than a one hit wonder - hence Buster Douglas.
A better analogy would be Leon Spinks should he lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Great call buster beat a prime unbeaten champ , both fury and spinks beat an ageing fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterA better analogy would be Leon Spinks should he lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
The odds for Fury to win were nothing like Douglas or Spinks.
It was considered by those who know what they are talking about that Tyson had a very good chance of winning because hes good, not because Klitschko would be unprepared.
The fact is the champion landed 4 punches per round,you have to ask as the champ had been koed 3 times many years before ,what was the challenger doing while the 4 punches flew his way ? The answer is winning a close boring fight.
Wladimir knew full well what he was up against with Tyson amd was as prepared as he could be. He didnt throw many punches because he knew what would happen and how good Tyson is. He under estimated his losses but not Tyson. He was forced in to taking this fight, if Tyson hadnt have been mandatory Wlad would have chased Wilder instead.
I think the question remains why did the fight go 12 round when Wlad landed 4 punches per round ? it also finished 115-112 which is hardly a landslide win. That kind of output is pathetic and the fight was as bad as Wlad v Haye , you can only beat what is in front of you but as a paying PPV fan this fight stunk the place out and I'm sure I'm not the only one who think so. Wlad has to prove he isn't totally shot and can output more per round at the age of 39/40.