Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?

ahhhhhh HEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL NAWWWWWWWWWW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6juQJR0QT7E

Who knows, but more importantly I don't think he would have gotten hit like that.

Think Froch could eat that right-hand that GGG floored Curtis Stevens with? ;D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEWVmQmJys

What right hand? lol.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

What right hand? lol.

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Sorry, Left. That's copying and pasting for you! ;D

Yes.

I was a big Froch fan but GGG would eat him up and spit him out. Another level entirely.

He would brush it off and continue to break Froch down. It would probably go 7 due to Froch's toughness, but finish prematurely as GGG couldn't miss.

I kind of agree. You have to give Froch some benefit for being a bigger guy and prevailing in a bunch of other fights he seemed hard pressed to win, GGG is a really scary and cerebral operator though. Neither would have seen anything like the other for sure, though of course Froch fought some great guys.

I hate to use this cliche but styles make fights. Froch in his prime was a difficult out. Really unorthodox in his approach with a killer right hand and a world class chin to back it up. There is no shame in losing to one of the best fighters of our time. He's also most likely a pretty good sized light heavyweight at fight time. Golovkin has a world class chin also but he's faced nobody who punches like Froch. I just don't see Golovkin walking Carl down and having his way or sticking his chin out and asking for one with a smile on his face.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I hate to use this cliche but styles make fights. Froch in his prime was a difficult out. Really unorthodox in his approach with a killer right hand and a world class chin to back it up. There is no shame in losing to one of the best fighters of our time. He's also most likely a pretty good sized light heavyweight at fight time. Golovkin has a world class chin also but he's faced nobody who punches like Froch. I just don't see Golovkin walking Carl down and having his way or sticking his chin out and asking for one with a smile on his face.

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Agreed.

I don't have Ggg down as a great.

Hes good and he fights people who arent that good anymore as some of his win are against those past there best.

Froch retired So he didn't have to face GGG. And as for being able to move up, he used to openly admit that he walked the streets only 2 or 3lbs over the SMW Limit. He was always in shape , I'll give him that.
But I don't think Froch had as much power as people think. Yes, that was a great shot that ko'd Groves , but look at his fights before Groves and they mostly went the distance.
Infact, when he stopped Bute, he threw about 30 unanswered punches and Bute still never went down!
I just think GGG would walk through his punches and keep walking Froch down.

I have no idea if he could or not because he just fights cans in the division with no talent. I mean a fight was discussed with Calzaghe and even his division was way better then the version GGG rules. I see all the killer stuff but the fact is GGG has beaten fuck all when it comes to great fighters.

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Froch retired So he didn't have to face GGG. And as for being able to move up, he used to openly admit that he walked the streets only 2 or 3lbs over the SMW Limit. He was always in shape , I'll give him that.
But I don't think Froch had as much power as people think. Yes, that was a great shot that ko'd Groves , but look at his fights before Groves and they mostly went the distance.
Infact, when he stopped Bute, he threw about 30 unanswered punches and Bute still never went down!
I just think GGG would walk through his punches and keep walking Froch down.

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I've never really considered Froch as having one punch knock out power, most of his stoppages seemed to come from an accumulation of punches from what I can remember.

The Groves KO was a decent punch though

Pretty sure Froch would take GGG - 12 rounds maybe but he has possibly the best chin ever at SMW - people bring up his knockdowns but Froch genuinely got hit ALOT - it wasnt defence which got him wins over big punchers.

Also GGG isn't like some fighters i.e Kessler who coud catch froch with a huge 1-2 as he was coming in - GGG would be in there close to Froch either being backed up or backing up Froch - so I really can't see a knockout on GGGs - or Frochs part.

Froch close UD for me

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

I don't have Ggg down as a great.

Hes good and he fights people who arent that good anymore as some of his win are against those past there best.

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Yes

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Originally Posted by Mr140

I have no idea if he could or not because he just fights cans in the division with no talent. I mean a fight was discussed with Calzaghe and even his division was way better then the version GGG rules. I see all the killer stuff but the fact is GGG has beaten fuck all when it comes to great fighters.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by oakleyno1

Pretty sure Froch would take GGG - 12 rounds maybe but he has possibly the best chin ever at SMW - people bring up his knockdowns but Froch genuinely got hit ALOT - it wasnt defence which got him wins over big punchers.

Also GGG isn't like some fighters i.e Kessler who coud catch froch with a huge 1-2 as he was coming in - GGG would be in there close to Froch either being backed up or backing up Froch - so I really can't see a knockout on GGGs - or Frochs part.

Froch close UD for me

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Yes

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I hate to use this cliche but styles make fights. Froch in his prime was a difficult out. Really unorthodox in his approach with a killer right hand and a world class chin to back it up. There is no shame in losing to one of the best fighters of our time. He's also most likely a pretty good sized light heavyweight at fight time. Golovkin has a world class chin also but he's faced nobody who punches like Froch. I just don't see Golovkin walking Carl down and having his way or sticking his chin out and asking for one with a smile on his face.

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I agree on styles making fights, and I think Froch is a horrible match up for GGG. Froch was very strong, very tough mentally and physically, had a great punch, and possessed underrated boxing skills. GGG would be significantly smaller, and while I think he would've lasted the distance and taken some rounds, I see him losing the decision in a similar fight to Froch's win over Arthur Abraham (not as lopsided though). In my opinion Froch was a great fighter, and it shows how great and versatile Ward is in the way that he beat him (Froch).

Froch v GGG would be an entertaining and action packed fight. I think the size of Froch would be the deciding factor in him winning.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I hate to use this cliche but styles make fights. Froch in his prime was a difficult out. Really unorthodox in his approach with a killer right hand and a world class chin to back it up. There is no shame in losing to one of the best fighters of our time. He's also most likely a pretty good sized light heavyweight at fight time. Golovkin has a world class chin also but he's faced nobody who punches like Froch. I just don't see Golovkin walking Carl down and having his way or sticking his chin out and asking for one with a smile on his face.

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I agree on styles making fights, and I think Froch is a horrible match up for GGG. Froch was very strong, very tough mentally and physically, had a great punch, and possessed underrated boxing skills. GGG would be significantly smaller, and while I think he would've lasted the distance and taken some rounds, I see him losing the decision in a similar fight to Froch's win over Arthur Abraham (not as lopsided though). In my opinion Froch was a great fighter, and it shows how great and versatile Ward is in the way that he beat him (Froch).

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There are not many similarities between AA and GGG other than their size. AA was very overrated at the time, no footwork , no reflexes, no head or body movement, that's why he lost every single round to the bigger guys : Froch, Ward, Dirrell.
I agree with the size factor but I don't think Froch was as skilled as GGG is and I don't say this because I think highly on Golovkin , it;s more because I believe Froch is pretty overrated as well. GGG never faced somebody as tough as Froch but at least he never struggled to beat lesser fighters and he controlled every fight, Froch on the other side was on par with an old Glenn Johnson, he got a gift against Dirrell who was beaten by GGG at amateurs, and was basically saved by the KO against JT.
If an old Kessler was able to get a points decision win over Froch in their first fight than IMHO GGG could have done the same thing.

All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.

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I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.

Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Mr140

All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.

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I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.


Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.

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I have always said that Hagler and Monzons were weak divisions Hopkins moved up so i really cant say much about him he made the jump. I am just saying its kinda who knows with GGG to be compared to man who has fought high level comp and the division GGG in has to be one of the worst i have seen since i been watching boxing. Pretty much ever guy he has fought is a can or journey man who never beat anybody worth a shit. I mean people talk about lower weight guys not fighting him is not different then him not jumping up his division is cleaned and after Canelo it still be a shit division. It does not really matters if he wants to stay and clean house and records at division. I do not hate GGG but the fact is he simple has not beaten a high level fighter yet let alone a hof i am sure he will soon.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Mr140

All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.

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I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.


Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.

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I have always said that Hagler and Monzons were weak divisions Hopkins moved up so i really cant say much about him he made the jump. I am just saying its kinda who knows with GGG to be compared to man who has fought high level comp and the division GGG in has to be one of the worst i have seen since i been watching boxing. Pretty much ever guy he has fought is a can or journey man who never beat anybody worth a shit. I mean people talk about lower weight guys not fighting him is not different then him not jumping up his division is cleaned and after Canelo it still be a shit division. It does not really matters if he wants to stay and clean house and records at division. I do not hate GGG but the fact is he simple has not beaten a high level fighter yet let alone a hof i am sure he will soon.

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But you are cherry picking. Nobody refers to Haglers crop as cans or Hopkins or Monzon. If the cream of the crop at middleweight are cans then there is nothing he can do about it. These cans he has dominated would fit into almost any post ww2 middle era. These gentlemen also had the advantage of people wanting to fight them. Hopkins was able to capture the undisputed crown and so was Hagler. Hopkins lost it and moved on. Hagler although not undisputed anymore based on politics lost to Leonard and then went on to do spaghetti westerns. Fact of the matter is, these other belt holders should be forced by the powers at be and their fans to fight the guy. If one of the Kazaks goals is to break Hopkins defense record and unify his chosen division then who are we Monday morning quarterbacks to expect otherwise? We've seemed to have reached a point now when righteous goals in the sport are frowned upon and fake champions make 25 million fighting against no hopers. And people seem ok with that.

Two of my favourite posters going at it like Hagler v Hearns - nice. :cool:

Homeostasis=The tendency of a system, especially the physiological system of higher animals, to maintain internal stability, owing to the coordinated response of its parts to any situation or stimulus that would tend to disturb its normal condition or function. In other words both men are comfortable in their divisions and a size differential between Froch and GGG would be in Froch's favor except his inactivity would definitely test his iron chin, He would be at a definite disadvantage because he is no longer as durable because he has been at rest. Right now the fight would not be to his advantage but years ago I feel that Froch with his hands down style took too many shots and he never remedied it so he shouldn't be a favorite yet he is the bigger man keeping him in the game but both men fought who was placed in front of them in other words cards from the deck dealt. This information helps me make my point coming from one of the two dullest books in the world, the dictionary and the other dull book not used for this discussion is the New York telephone directory.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Mr140

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Mr140

All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.

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I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.


Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.

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I have always said that Hagler and Monzons were weak divisions Hopkins moved up so i really cant say much about him he made the jump. I am just saying its kinda who knows with GGG to be compared to man who has fought high level comp and the division GGG in has to be one of the worst i have seen since i been watching boxing. Pretty much ever guy he has fought is a can or journey man who never beat anybody worth a shit. I mean people talk about lower weight guys not fighting him is not different then him not jumping up his division is cleaned and after Canelo it still be a shit division. It does not really matters if he wants to stay and clean house and records at division. I do not hate GGG but the fact is he simple has not beaten a high level fighter yet let alone a hof i am sure he will soon.

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But you are cherry picking. Nobody refers to Haglers crop as cans or Hopkins or Monzon. If the cream of the crop at middleweight are cans then there is nothing he can do about it. These cans he has dominated would fit into almost any post ww2 middle era. These gentlemen also had the advantage of people wanting to fight them. Hopkins was able to capture the undisputed crown and so was Hagler. Hopkins lost it and moved on. Hagler although not undisputed anymore based on politics lost to Leonard and then went on to do spaghetti westerns. Fact of the matter is, these other belt holders should be forced by the powers at be and their fans to fight the guy. If one of the Kazaks goals is to break Hopkins defense record and unify his chosen division then who are we Monday morning quarterbacks to expect otherwise? We've seemed to have reached a point now when righteous goals in the sport are frowned upon and fake champions make 25 million fighting against no hopers. And people seem ok with that.

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Nothing you have said changes that Hagler, Monzon and Hopkins division talent was weak which is the case for a lot of long term champs. The fact of the matter is that GGG division is a joke compared to those ones name a person GGG beat that worth a shit or not journey man who could not win against anyone that was talented. GGG crushing ok fighters and cans in division that make the hw seem like its the golden years again its a total joke. I understand why he stays there because it easier road it is the reason why Canelo has stayed were he is at it is the easy road. Just do not compare a fighter who has beaten fuck all to a guy who beat legit hall of famers they have not faced the same class not that can all change and GGG could move up or beat some great guy but until then he is a can crusher.

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Originally Posted by Master

Two of my favourite posters going at it like Hagler v Hearns - nice. :cool:

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Master I thought I was your favourite!!!

You three timing son of a bitch

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Originally Posted by Batman

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Originally Posted by Master

Two of my favourite posters going at it like Hagler v Hearns - nice. :cool:

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Master I thought I was your favourite!!!

You three timing son of a bitch

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He said " 2 OF".everybody knows that I am Master's absolute favourite poster! 😂😂😂

No. GGG could not have eaten the right that Froch ruined Groves with.

Not many people could have, it was the best punch of Froch's career.

I'm going to go against the flow here ...... but I think Golovkin could well have beaten Froch had they fought. Here's why .....

I like Froch the fighter, he was teak tough, great chin, good stamina and a real fighters heart.

However, I always thought he could be outboxed. Ward proved this, and other fighters had great success against him for periods of their fights. Groves was doing a number on Carl in both fights until he gassed out and got caught. Carl's best fights and wins were when he turned their bouts into wars.

Now, and people forget this, Golovkin is actually an excellent technical boxer. He showed that against Lemieux and you don't have the amateur career that GGG had without being a top drawer skilled boxer.

If we assume GGG moved up to SM for this imaginary fight, I think he would be more cautious than h is at middleweight. He has shown a good chin so far and can walk through middleweights, but I think he would be more circumspect against someone like Froch.

Equally, GGG certainly has the power to keep Froch honest and dissuade him from charging recklessly forward.

If both guys respect the others power, it becomes more of a chess match. I think Golovkin has the superior boxing skills, a good enough chin and heavy enough hands that he wins a points decision by surprising everyone and turning into a boxer instead of a knockout machine..

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Nothing you have said changes that Hagler, Monzon and Hopkins division talent was weak which is the case for a lot of long term champs. The fact of the matter is that GGG division is a joke compared to those ones name a person GGG beat that worth a shit or not journey man who could not win against anyone that was talented. GGG crushing ok fighters and cans in division that make the hw seem like its the golden years again its a total joke. I understand why he stays there because it easier road it is the reason why Canelo has stayed were he is at it is the easy road. Just do not compare a fighter who has beaten fuck all to a guy who beat legit hall of famers they have not faced the same class not that can all change and GGG could move up or beat some great guy but until then he is a can crusher.

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Huh? I never said they were not weak, I said they were as weak or weaker then Golovkins. Nothing you have said changes that fact or the fact that Golovkin has dominated an equal division in a much more decisive manner.

Ok so you changed up in the second sentence. Look man those three had a shit show division and one could easily make the case that minus the welterweights Golovkins middleweight run is better then theirs. You don’t need to be Nat Fleischer to figure that out. FFs Monzon fought three guys in a row that were, 5/13/3-5/3/2 and 5/14/3 and those were his 55th 56th and 57th. In his 68th fight he fought a guy making his freakin debut. His first 50 fights were pathetic. You want to talk “cans” well Monzon took over the soup factory. He finally fought Briscoe after he cleaned up the tomato aisle and that’s the best middleweight he ever fought his entire freakin career and managed a draw against the 19 and 4 fighter. Then managed to beat him 8 years later. Like I said earlier which you ignored, all three of them made their notoriety on the backs of x-welters . Those are FACTS that anyone can check.

If you have the time go ahead and compare the actual middleweights they fought and put up the records of those he beat and who they beat. It’s a dog and pony show. Who are these great MIDDLEWEIGHTS Monzon beat? Name them and back it up. Simply saying their notches are better does not make it so anymore then the legend affixed to their names regarding the middleweight division. Monzon was elevated to plastic/fake Alvarez God status by beating up old dogs like Naples and Griffith. They were not middleweights and long past their prime. Oh sorry I forgot the shot Valdez and good ole Nino. Yeah that’s quite the resume.
Now Hopkins. Who did he beat? Any ATG’s? Any Hall of Famers? Keith Holmes? Allen x3 and actually drew with Mercado. Was Echols the man? No it was Tito, an x-welter and Oscars laughable duke that made him and then he lost twice to Turrets Taylor. I don’t care what he did after. This is about middleweight and the ridiculous double standards applied no matter how many times they are proven unjustifiable.

And Hagler? Vito Antuofermo in his 50th fight and lost to the power houses of Watts and Monroe? What ATG middleweights did he beat? Minter, Hamsho? Hagler made his mark against x-welters and one x-lightweight in Duran. People continuously rip the Kazaks resume a new asshole and then go on to worship the three mentioned. Well there is not a standard for them and one for Golovkin. If you want to scrutinize then scrutinize but be objective about it. The point is not to run down these guys but to show the incredible double standards. Makes sense though when you consider a total fake champion who never even fought a middleweight and vacated rather than fight this man is still the money man.


And again, like I said, it’s a shame that the massive welterweight “stars” of today or those at 54 won’t move up and allow Golvkin to bask in the same celebrity. And again point here is while people run down and use Golovkins comp level they have to realize the FACT that these other guys fought middleweights at the same level.

None of them can be blamed for the cards they are dealt or be expected to do something different. None of these men had crystal balls. They were middleweights who fought who was there at the time and Monzon has perhaps the worst resume middleweight wise in boxing history and for some reason makes the top 3 to 5 on atg lists. You know why that is? It’s because of the eye tests some would say. They will say that he was special while he beat up the local shrubbery. It’s pretty easy to look special slapping around that lot. People will say the same about Hagler and Hopkins but justifiably so and I’d be one of them and the same reasoning applies to Golovkin and there is more than ample evidence to back that up. If I didn’t feel that way you would see me accusing them of fighting cans and making a name for themselves off midgets.

Too bad all of them could not have fought at the same time but that kind of magic does not happen in this division. And if it happened today they wouldn’t fight anyway. That’s it for me in response to this. The middle weight division with few exceptions has always been mediocre and dominated one guy and then the rest. The class of the field through many eras that would compete against these dominant fighters has always been average and could all be called journeymen. If there is a degree of separation, it’s pretty slight.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Nothing you have said changes that Hagler, Monzon and Hopkins division talent was weak which is the case for a lot of long term champs. The fact of the matter is that GGG division is a joke compared to those ones name a person GGG beat that worth a shit or not journey man who could not win against anyone that was talented. GGG crushing ok fighters and cans in division that make the hw seem like its the golden years again its a total joke. I understand why he stays there because it easier road it is the reason why Canelo has stayed were he is at it is the easy road. Just do not compare a fighter who has beaten fuck all to a guy who beat legit hall of famers they have not faced the same class not that can all change and GGG could move up or beat some great guy but until then he is a can crusher.

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Huh? I never said they were not weak, I said they were as weak or weaker then Golovkins. Nothing you have said changes that fact or the fact that Golovkin has dominated an equal division in a much more decisive manner.

Ok so you changed up in the second sentence. Look man those three had a shit show division and one could easily make the case that minus the welterweights Golovkins middleweight run is better then theirs. You don’t need to be Nat Fleischer to figure that out. FFs Monzon fought three guys in a row that were, 5/13/3-5/3/2 and 5/14/3 and those were his 55th 56th and 57th. In his 68th fight he fought a guy making his freakin debut. His first 50 fights were pathetic. You want to talk “cans” well Monzon took over the soup factory. He finally fought Briscoe after he cleaned up the tomato aisle and that’s the best middleweight he ever fought his entire freakin career and managed a draw against the 19 and 4 fighter. Then managed to beat him 8 years later. Like I said earlier which you ignored, all three of them made their notoriety on the backs of x-welters . Those are FACTS that anyone can check.

If you have the time go ahead and compare the actual middleweights they fought and put up the records of those he beat and who they beat. It’s a dog and pony show. Who are these great MIDDLEWEIGHTS Monzon beat? Name them and back it up. Simply saying their notches are better does not make it so anymore then the legend affixed to their names regarding the middleweight division. Monzon was elevated to plastic/fake Alvarez God status by beating up old dogs like Naples and Griffith. They were not middleweights and long past their prime. Oh sorry I forgot the shot Valdez and good ole Nino. Yeah that’s quite the resume.
Now Hopkins. Who did he beat? Any ATG’s? Any Hall of Famers? Keith Holmes? Allen x3 and actually drew with Mercado. Was Echols the man? No it was Tito, an x-welter and Oscars laughable duke that made him and then he lost twice to Turrets Taylor. I don’t care what he did after. This is about middleweight and the ridiculous double standards applied no matter how many times they are proven unjustifiable.

And Hagler? Vito Antuofermo in his 50th fight and lost to the power houses of Watts and Monroe? What ATG middleweights did he beat? Minter, Hamsho? Hagler made his mark against x-welters and one x-lightweight in Duran. People continuously rip the Kazaks resume a new asshole and then go on to worship the three mentioned. Well there is not a standard for them and one for Golovkin. If you want to scrutinize then scrutinize but be objective about it. The point is not to run down these guys but to show the incredible double standards. Makes sense though when you consider a total fake champion who never even fought a middleweight and vacated rather than fight this man is still the money man.


And again, like I said, it’s a shame that the massive welterweight “stars” of today or those at 54 won’t move up and allow Golvkin to bask in the same celebrity. And again point here is while people run down and use Golovkins comp level they have to realize the FACT that these other guys fought middleweights at the same level.

None of them can be blamed for the cards they are dealt or be expected to do something different. None of these men had crystal balls. They were middleweights who fought who was there at the time and Monzon has perhaps the worst resume middleweight wise in boxing history and for some reason makes the top 3 to 5 on atg lists. You know why that is? It’s because of the eye tests some would say. They will say that he was special while he beat up the local shrubbery. It’s pretty easy to look special slapping around that lot. People will say the same about Hagler and Hopkins but justifiably so and I’d be one of them and the same reasoning applies to Golovkin and there is more than ample evidence to back that up. If I didn’t feel that way you would see me accusing them of fighting cans and making a name for themselves off midgets.

Too bad all of them could not have fought at the same time but that kind of magic does not happen in this division. And if it happened today they wouldn’t fight anyway. That’s it for me in response to this. The middle weight division with few exceptions has always been mediocre and dominated one guy and then the rest. The class of the field through many eras that would compete against these dominant fighters has always been average and could all be called journeymen. If there is a degree of separation, it’s pretty slight.

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I do not get what i am disagreeing with you with Monzon division was weak and Hagler was only tad better then ggg in my eyes because Hearns was a success up till lhw. Hopkins divison i said was weak as shit but he moved up so i am leaving him alone. So that leaves GGG who fought cans and journeyman and comparing to Froch who has beaten hofs and been against every big names he could fight. I was saying i really do not know what GGG could do against someone worth a shit because i have not seen in with a elite fighter before so who knows what will happen in that fight. That was were i am coming from if you see it differently thats cool i am not sure what i am arguing with you about. Because for most part it seems you agree with me but feel i am being tad to harsh on GGG which may be true i guess.

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Originally Posted by Master

Two of my favourite posters going at it like Hagler v Hearns - nice. :cool:

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Really glad your still around master i really miss cut and saddo and hunter never see any of them anymore which sucks. Tell does it seem i am being to harsh on GGG or do you think the division is the worst it has ever been at am i the only one that thinks he a can crusher mostly. Do not get me wrong GGG is talented but i can not see a name on his resume that even worth remembering and a guy like Froch who i was never a fan of even i admit wins over Kessler, Pascal, AA and Taylor are proof he could beat elites. To me this is kinda like Moore vs Jones one guy was simple crushing no bodies but seemed invincible and the other guy was beating top guys in his division just like you know that guy can beat the best the other guy its kinda iffy if he can or not because there nothing to go off of. Also about the being able to take the punch has GGG faced a hard hitter that is in the league of a froch before i know i never seen him hurt so GGG must have a chin there just so much unanswered question about guy which sucks because the talent outside of Canelo is kinda at 175 and that pretty big step up in weight class to go at it.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

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Originally Posted by Master

Two of my favourite posters going at it like Hagler v Hearns - nice. :cool:

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Really glad your still around master i really miss cut and saddo and hunter never see any of them anymore which sucks. Tell does it seem i am being to harsh on GGG or do you think the division is the worst it has ever been at am i the only one that thinks he a can crusher mostly. Do not get me wrong GGG is talented but i can not see a name on his resume that even worth remembering and a guy like Froch who i was never a fan of even i admit wins over Kessler, Pascal, AA and Taylor are proof he could beat elites. To me this is kinda like Moore vs Jones one guy was simple crushing no bodies but seem invincible and the other guy was beating top guys in his division just like you know that guy can beat the best the other guy its kinda iffy if he can or not because there nothing to go off of.

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I agree with you I think Froch would win because of the size but GGG is a quality fighter in an OK division.

Watching the Froch-Grove II ending, it looked as if Groves still had his legs about him judging by the way he got up when referee was waving the fight off.

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Originally Posted by sanatogen

Watching the Froch-Grove II ending, it looked as if Groves still had his legs about him judging by the way he got up when referee was waving the fight off.

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Hence why they had the rematch and Froch won with a devastating KO.