Canelo v Khan or GGG v Brooks?
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Canelo v Khan or GGG v Brooks?
Both are fucking pathetic. This era sucks
You know what, I thought you were just a sour boxing fan but I am beginning to see what you see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I just can not defend this fight and GGG choosing Brook. It is just wrong. GGG should have said to Hearn, "have you get another middleweight?".
At least the GGG fight is at middleweight and not some catchweight.
It is fucking ridiculous now though
we have Crawford v Postol in a few weeks, at least that is a real fight
Both are pretty bad but Khan Canelo was worse
It was at a catchweight being billed as for the middleweight between a paper champ and a guy who had multiple losses below 147 moving up two weights.
Golovkin brook is at 160 between the number 1 middleweight and the number 1 welter. Both are unbeaten world champs.
If brook had a bunch of losses too and didn't hold a title then the fight would be just as bad as Canelo Khan
I just want good fights. I'm the same in all sports, play the best, fight the best, if you win great, if you lose at least you tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou know what, I thought you were just a sour boxing fan but I am beginning to see what you see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I just can not defend this fight and GGG choosing Brook. It is just wrong. GGG should have said to Hearn, "have you get another middleweight?".
Sober up. Moving from 147 to 160 is a tradition. Ask Mickey Walker, Carmen Basilio and Ray Robinson. Ask Felix Trinidad and Oscar Dr La Hoya.
If guys don't switch weight classes you call them out on that too.
Oscar DeLaHoya and Tito campaigned at 154, became champions at 154, became champions at 160 before taking on the best in the world at 160. But let's forget their far superior accomplishments at higher weights. Let's point out how these don't compare even at 147(like the other examples don't compare), Oscar and Tito had fought many good fighters at 147 and even great fighters. Fighters taller and with longer reach than the 5'9" Brook with a tiny 69" reach. Brook has the 5th or even 6th best American WW as his only significant fight. The only one.
"I just want good fights. I'm the same in all sports, play the best, fight the best, if you win great, if you lose at least you tried." - I agree with this 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
But I would be interested to see you name 5 better current American WW's than Porter?
Mayweather, Thurman, Spence, those I am confident about. Bradley has done far more. That puts Porter at 5th. Vargas might be better now too though. Tough to say. But I am confident that Porter is at best 4th, at worst 6th today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera"I just want good fights. I'm the same in all sports, play the best, fight the best, if you win great, if you lose at least you tried." - I agree with this 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
But I would be interested to see you name 5 better current American WW's than Porter?
ThurmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera"I just want good fights. I'm the same in all sports, play the best, fight the best, if you win great, if you lose at least you tried." - I agree with this 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
But I would be interested to see you name 5 better current American WW's than Porter?
Garcia
Bradley
Vargas
Spence
Oops, I forgot Garcia. Maybe him too.
147 champs have always tried 160. It meant more with same day weigh ins. Now, the welter champ weighs 165 in the ring. He is already a middle.
Porter ices Garcia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Both are bad but canelo khan is worse. The reasoning is that it was specifically billed as a huge fight and was primarily made. It wasn't a backup plan. GGG at least had the desire to fight a middleweight but eubank ducked out so GGG picked a welter to fight. And Brook is seen as maybe the best welter while khan was closer to the 10th best welter.
With all that said, it's unfortunate that this is the fight we get.
Certainly possible. I'm not high on Garcia. Not high on Porter either though. But Porter has absolutely no defense for the left hook. It's like he's completely blind to it. And with the way he rushes in blind he could get stopped. Broner dropped him with the left hook and Garcias hook is far better.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoePorter ices Garcia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
GGG wanted Canelo in September and Canelo ducked him, he then signed to fight Eubank jr., and he ducked GGG, so I'm ok with him fighting Brook at this point. It won't be an impressive win to me, since Brook is a much smaller man, but I don't blame him for fighting an opponent with name recognition. As others have stated, all dominant middleweight champs have defended against Welters: Hop, Hagler, Monzon, Robinson, Lamotta, Emile...etc. I would like to see GGG crush Jacobs and Canelo, but after that, there are no real threats to him.
Good points made on both sides.
I will say Canelo taking on a fighter moving up without a major win and getting knocked out more than once along the way is far worse.
Mayweather - ex-Boxer . Retired and staying that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonMayweather, Thurman, Spence, those I am confident about. Bradley has done far more. That puts Porter at 5th. Vargas might be better now too though. Tough to say. But I am confident that Porter is at best 4th, at worst 6th today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera"I just want good fights. I'm the same in all sports, play the best, fight the best, if you win great, if you lose at least you tried." - I agree with this 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
But I would be interested to see you name 5 better current American WW's than Porter?
Thurman - yes
Spence - Maybe, uncertain at the moment, but certainly in the future.
Bradley - gonna say yes because I've got a soft spot for him, but you yanks are always writing him off.
Vargas - don't think so.
Garcia - who can tell? He doesn't really fight much nowadays does he?
So being devil's advocate , you could say only Thurman. But I'm not going to argue too strongly about it, it's all about opinions.;)
In answer to the original question, I voted for Canelo v Khan being worse, only because there was a 20lb weight difference on the night, and with the IBF 10lb ruling, that's probably not going to be the case this time.
But at the same time, I have to be consistent and say I don't like the idea of GGG fighting someone 2 weights below.
If the MW's haven't got the balls to step up to the plate, then now is probably the right time to consider his work done at the weight and challenge himself by moving up.
Split down the middle honestly. Khan was in all actuality dented, vulnerable and seemingly clinging to that elusive "event" what ever the cost. On the other side we knew Canelo was a con at middle. An imposter. Basically lowered expectations. With Golovkin he was the adult in the room when Cotto and Canelo came up at middleweight. He was respected and held to higher standards. I don't begrudge a guy a payday but this is only duplicating Canelos cash grab. Brook is a helluva fighter really banking on a single high profile win who himself has already rebounded in a foty candidate with Thurman. The no in between or credible build to division is what gets me. Many of the top guys named at least made pit stops at 154 while some who did not were knocked senseless.
Like in any profession you go the Xtra mile take on a bigger challenge. If GGG were white or black this would not be tolerated. He is basically copying Canelo with a pathetic resume of opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Khan was schooling Canelo and had he won a decision you would not use such fodder . It is obvious you dislike Canelo. As Danny DeVito says "Garbage"' " I'm the trash man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
The hell with the BS fanboy sale job what matter is the end result after you criticize Canelo's decision to not fight this fall at 160 you counter and challenge a welterweight. This is head and shoulders worse . GGG has surrendered the only leverage he held previously over CANELO. Now it is obvious he is an even greater coward and his resume needs to be scrutinized more. So he will fight a smaller fighter just not a Canelo, Charlo or Lara. Hoping the cherry picker gets plucked. GGG needs to stop using Mexican Style phrase asap !Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Be real..... 10 years as a professional with no key win or Marque opponent. 10 years without taking a risk beating all opponents in a weak ass division . This has you believing he has a leg to negotiate with vs. Canelo? This looks like a major cherry picking career!Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
Work done absolutely, time to fight top notch opponents one level up or one level down. Lara or Canelo at 155 now that you forfeited what was your only leverage point PG-GG rated champion
Since my initial disappointment. Some info was brought up in a interview with Abel Sanchez, about the choice of brook. That info being that the available date was already preset by HBO as September 10. When canelo fell through, and they went and tried to get eubank and it looked like it could come to fruition even as having to line up the fighters, the network rights for televising, and everything else. Then Eubank prices himself out by trying to write his own ticket and control the promotion (probably wanted a pony and some candy and hookers too). Anyway. with that negotiation falling through and GGG already agreeing to the terms... Brook stepped up and accepted the same agreement that Eubank tried to skirt around. No modifications, no renegotiating .. he took it as is.
Im sure GGG would rather fight a middleweight (Jacobs, canelo, eubank, Saunders, and whoever else hes tried to get to sign in the past, but with the time running short for the fight to get a full camp in, they took whoever stepped up. That was brook. If they chose not to it could have been another month of negotiating just to lock in an opponent for a unified champ (by default) whos holding all the keys. Only other person close to the weight in matchroom is Degale whos up 8 lbs and probably would have demanded parity and not would have signed right away. So if brook is the only one who is brave enough to sign the contract, with an inch difference in reach and a inch and half difference in height. He should have have too much trouble packing on the 13lbs.
Its the next fight that will be an issue if GGG gets past brook. Screw Eubank, Screw Canelo and screw jacobs, press saunders and get him to give up the belt or fight for it. Be officially unified and move up unless a charlo, andrade who whoever moves up. this is getting stupid... professionally fighters having an opportunity to fight the man in the division are like .... "nahhh, that's okay..." which pretty much makes them hobbyists...
So im disappointed its brook, but brook and and matchroom chose GGG, not the other way around. with the date set and time constraints on prep, he really doesn't have much choice to accept. Its not like he ducked a unification fight and then sought out brook as a tune up, which is the difference between him and cañelo...
Brook is a big welter and probably walks around at closer to 154. He isn't Nassem but he clearly has the potential to pile it on. He has much more ring sense than Khan and has real spite in his punches, he may go down fighting because his heart is certainly there, but I think Golovkin will be surprised how honest Brooks punches will keep him early doors. I can't see Kell having enough pop to keep GGG off down the stretch and it's very likely he gets stopped, but it's not a nailed on certainty, nothing ever is once they step through those ropes. It probably has as much to do with shutting Khan and the Eubank mouths shut for Kell and Hearn respectively as the wonga they will earn. Respect to Brook for stepping up without the diva bullshit and I see him giving a good account of himself despite losing and increasing his saleability on the world stage. Vargas claims and anyone else's of him bottling it will ring a bit hollow now.
It is one thing to respect a fighter for taking on a challenge and another just taking the money and knowing full well he will lose and stand very little chance of winning. It is absurd to justify this fight, there is only one winner.
If I did another poll on who posters think will win all of you would choose GGG, (except Brock who is just "special").
What's lost in the comparison is we all knew Canelo was a fraud. We still held out hope for GGG
So true! I am disappointed in GGG for the first time and can not defend this defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Ha. You ask me to be real? Do you honestly think GGG has cherry picked opponents?Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxingBe real..... 10 years as a professional with no key win or Marque opponent. 10 years without taking a risk beating all opponents in a weak ass division . This has you believing he has a leg to negotiate with vs. Canelo? This looks like a major cherry picking career!Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
Work done absolutely, time to fight top notch opponents one level up or one level down. Lara or Canelo at 155 now that you forfeited what was your only leverage point PG-GG rated champion
You do know there is a difference between cherry picking and being avoided?
And then you say that perhaps he should go down in weight ? No doubt you would then accuse him of being a bully, he can't win with you.
And you ask me to be real?😂
I've already acknowledged that the time has come for him to move up because nobody in the division will fight him.
I answered both because in the end both fights are equally as ridiculous. Although as far as motivation behind the fights, I find Canelo-Khan much worse. Canelo fought Khan in the process of avoiding GGG like the ginger-haired pu$$y he is. GGG's motivation, I can only guess, is frustration at the growing criticism that he isn't facing any big names, and the biggest name out there for him to face is running from him at full sprint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraHa. You ask me to be real? Do you honestly think GGG has cherry picked opponents?Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxingBe real..... 10 years as a professional with no key win or Marque opponent. 10 years without taking a risk beating all opponents in a weak ass division . This has you believing he has a leg to negotiate with vs. Canelo? This looks like a major cherry picking career!Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
Work done absolutely, time to fight top notch opponents one level up or one level down. Lara or Canelo at 155 now that you forfeited what was your only leverage point PG-GG rated champion
You do know there is a difference between cherry picking and being avoided?
And then you say that perhaps he should go down in weight ? No doubt you would then accuse him of being a bully, he can't win with you.
And you ask me to be real?😂
I've already acknowledged that the time has come for him to move up because nobody in the division will fight him.
Agreed. Not only that... but the argument regarding "the right to negotiate with Canelo" is nothing but a B.S. excuse to justify Canelo's shameful avoiding of GGG. Bottom line... both are equally sized fighters perfectly suited to face off at 160. I'm sure GGG would accept any reasonable offer that was put on the table by Canelo's team. Unfortunately, hell will freeze over before that happens.
What school was that, clown College? Everyone with functional gray matter knew that farce was a matter of time not "if". Canelo is a spoiled lil tart and what he and Golovkin have in common now is needing smaller less proven fighters to bank on and ride the push afterwards. Its a joke. Oh and DeVito hasn't had a hit movie in years and was funniest while intoxicated on David Lettermans show :D. FACT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxingKhan was schooling Canelo and had he won a decision you would not use such fodder . It is obvious you dislike Canelo. As Danny DeVito says "Garbage"' " I'm the trash man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Yeah alright, Khan was schooling Canelo , like he "schooled" Garcia for about 2 minutes. Oh, and then he got clean sparked out! :rolleyes:GROUNDHOG DAY!;D;D
Canelo has made a career of beating up smaller guys not in his league. Matthew hatton, Archie Solis and so on. Golovkin has spent the last few years trying to get every middleweight on the planet into the ring. Big difference.
Team Golovkin only took this fight because they're so far down the line with negotiations and they've mentally already invested the money they're going to make from the Sky PPV.
First off good on Kell Brook for jumping at the chance to take that fight....he's going to get his ass beat something fierce but he'll make some good money doing it.
Both of these fights suck, but let's lay the blame where it rightfully belongs....at the feet of Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez. He was offered the fight at 160 for the 160 belts, the money was good the people wanted the fight to happen and he didn't take it.
Now something similar might be said about GGG not taking the fight with Andre Ward, but when we're talking about that we're also talking about where Ward fights (his back yard, ALWAYS his backyard be it Oakland or San Jose or LA) and that makes a difference....I do not believe location was an issue for GGG-Canelo and I do not believe weight was an issue either as both guys are smallish middleweights but could still move up with some success I am sure.
Not sure who is to blame for Ward-Kovalev not happening, but that one deserves a look as well
Let's lay the blame where it rightfully belongs GGG has been a pro for 10 fuqen years 10 FUQEN years and has yet to fight a marque name or have a signature win. GGG had no leverage then and further lessens his ability to dictate anything in a match with Canelo in the future. He could have moved down one weight class ad discredited a Canelo opponent instead he calls out a welterweight to fight at 160 . That that is a pussier move than Canelo has ever maneuvered. This is another PPV stinker for GGGQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
The last 10 years . Where's the beef ? All salad opponents, if GGG wanted a challenge he would make his management team create one. He is just a big fish with the wrong promotional company which has no one else. Stop the excuses 10 years and that resume of opposition..... Hope your Ol lady does not lie to you the same wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And GGG has made a career of ten years beating ?????????? Nobody , unproven commodity that has to fight a welterweight in their homeland for a good payday. He just handed Canelo his panties, now Canelo does not have to fight him at 160. What a stupid move how does this fight bring him closer to a Canelo fight? He should have fought Lara or Trout at 155 and demolished them as Canelo had a tough time with them. Until they GGG and. Canelo have common opponents GGG will not get the fight and rightfully does not deserve the fight. What has GGG done to warrant a Canelo fight at 160 when GGG wants. Canelo can fight him at 160 when he is good and ready. In the meantime GGG has to find real challenges one level up or down his work is done at 160 and that class is a complete joke and nothing to build a legacy onQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing