I aint a floyd fan but fuck this guy can box. Hes like roy jones a lower weight, he makes guys look stupid and these guys arent just bums....they are world class. If continues surely he will become an all time great, what do you reckon?
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I aint a floyd fan but fuck this guy can box. Hes like roy jones a lower weight, he makes guys look stupid and these guys arent just bums....they are world class. If continues surely he will become an all time great, what do you reckon?
This thread happens every week
I know.....but i havent done one yet so i wanted to ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
The answer is yes he can become an alltime great if he steps up his competition or dominates successive weight divisions in a way similar to Roy JOnes Jr., but the difference is despite what people say Roy Jones Jr. fought much better competition than Floyd Mayweather Jr. and probably everyone in the 90's except Holyfield.
He will. Even with a loss or two. A loss will bring him back to earth, and get him hungry. And, it would force him to fight the"tough guys", everyone wants him to fight, to set back up the biggest money fights.
If he keeps winning without a loss, he definately becomes an all-time great.
At this rate, he'll end up being remembered for ducking fighters, fighting paper champs at 140+ and having a big mouth. Erm, that's about it really.
Floyd Mayweather is on his way.
If he was to beat Zab, then Oscar, then either Hatton or Margarito, you wouldn't consider him an all-time great? Or even if he lost to Zab, and while Zab was fighting Oscar, Floyd beats Margarito, then Hatton, then rematches Zab, he still wouldn't be great? This is the plan he and Arum have come up with, and if he sticks to it{Big if}, I can't see how you could doubt him.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
If PBF beats all those people, then he goes down much higher than Roy Jones Jr. He would have beaten better people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
Yes i definatly will consider him an all time great if he does that. I doubt him cos I don't think it's gonna go like that. If oscar doesn't beat him hatton will, but if it goes like u said then he will be an all time great for sure. His achievement at 130-135 cannot be questioned though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
He still is hungry though, and he does want the big fights just on his terms...Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
I like Floyd, and a fight with Oscar will make alot of money, and even though Oscar is old, he still is a credible fighter, but I'd rather see him fight Margarito 1st. Then he secures that he beat 2 of the top 5 WWs, before taking the money fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
I totally agree with him skipping 140{Hatton}, but I don't blame him completely. Some of that blame should go to Arum. Having Cotto at 140 being groomed for a big fight, but not being ready for Floyd, puts 2 of your horses in the same race, and all the attention goes to Floyd. Cotto doesn't get the big fights, which equalls less money and exposure for Arum. 2 undefeated fighters in 2 weight classes makes more sense. Especially if both can run the tables and then face each other in a mega-fight. As you can tell by the interview with Floyd, he loves Arum, and is going to do what he is told.
It's interesting to read what the perception of Floyd was 5 years ago.
Regardless of how Mayweather Jr. finishes his career, i'm sure some fans will think of him as an all-time great, but as far as i'm concerned he'll be remembered as someone who never really lived up to their potential.
I find myself thinking that more and more. He has for whatever reason severly hand cuffed his own career whenever he hits a nice creast. Like a guy in an auto race who mazes 200mph outta the gate then takes foot off gas, see division and other just passing by. He 'settles'...in career and in more then a few fights. Hey he did beat a great in JMM, even if he looked like he outweighed him by one Ricardo Lopez.
Personally I think his ability is great. But as for one career defining unique statement of a match, don't see it.
I can't think of a single guy who I deem an ATG where I have questions. What I mean is I know exactly what Robinson and Armstrong and Canzoneri and Arguello and Hagler and Olivares etc could do and couldn't do. I know how they fought various styles, I know how they fought while ahead or while behind, I know how they behaved in desperate situations. In other words they were fully tested.
With guys like the above there really aren't any meaningful "what ifs" left.
Floyd, I think, is one of the five most gifted men of my lifetime. But I don't even know that for sure.
To be fair to Mayweather which i feel like i have to be because i used to not like the guy. But listen to people shit on him all time almost made me kinda of a fan of his. To be honest with you only fighter Mayweather didn't fight is Pac and thats not just his fault. Also never know the fight might come off anyhow there both still young. If Mayweather not a atg then shit Pac is not either lol which is silly.
But that isn't remotely true. Casamyor, Spadafora, Popo, Johnston, Lazcano, Kosta, Hatton, Margarito, Cotto, Williams and Shane were all in top three of divisions when Floyd was there. He fought Shane after it matterred and Hatton at a sub-optimal weight. Here's the problem. He could have fought every one of them. Instead? He fought Justin Jukko and Gregorio Vargas and Emmanual Augustus and Henry Bruseles and Arturo Gatti and Sharmba Mitchell and he blew weight against JMM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Think about his resume had he made THOSE choices! HOLY CRAP!
Mosley the man but he went on vaction when Mayweather came knocking for the fight to happen. Fought Bald for the lineal title you hold so dearly instead of Margarito and Hatton is no fucking Oscar.
The others you name are kinda eh could really careless dont think they would of done much.
I didn't complain about either Baldomir or Oscar did I? Both of those were legit, best choice or nearly so fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
The others I listed? Two different categories of fighters. He unfortunately fought the far weaker bunch.
Floyd is an all time great, and he's one of the greatest talents to step into a boxing ring in the history of the sport.
Is he a great person? Will he go down as one of the sports most beloved figures? Not a chance.
But if you can honestly say that you think Floyd is not an all time great, you're either biased against the guy (which is understandable), or you don't know boxing.
Floyd is a god damn virtuoso in the ring, and the fact that he's an asshole or he's not fighting Manny doesn't change that.
If we took boxers off the ATG list because they were A) and asshole, B) ducked somebody or C) all of the above, you'd have a list you could count on one hand.
Like I said in an earlier post, some will see Mayweather as an all-time no matter how he finishes his career. I view Mayweather as someone who failed to live up to his potential, and when his resume, ring activity, and level of competition, is compared to that of all-time greats, like SRR, Duran, Leonard, Hagler, Ali, Foreman, Marciano, and dozens of others, he also fails.
For what it's worth, as for Mayweather having extraordinary talent and ring skills, that may be true, but i've never cared for his style or had much interest in watching him fight.
Floyd has beaten 15 or so ranked guys and HOFers on what? 2-3 occasions? I can literally name dozens of guys who have done that you wouldn't call ATG's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
And I can gaurentee you that none of them had half the ring talent that Floyd does.
So what? Pro boxing is NOT the NFL combine. If we're going to call guys ATG's based on talent?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
And I can gaurentee you that none of them had half the ring talent that Floyd does.
Better add Tony Ayala Jr, Johnny Bumphus and Michael Nunn.
To be ATG, IMO, one has to apply those talents and prove them out against the finest possible competition.
Kind of a change of subject but do you class Oscar as an ATG? He is a man IMO who pretty much fought the best out there and fought at a good level throughout his career and apart from the Pacquiao fight when he was clearly weight drained was never embarassed. I do class Oscar as an ATG if your wondering.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSo what? Pro boxing is NOT the NFL combine. If we're going to call guys ATG's based on talent?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
And I can gaurentee you that none of them had half the ring talent that Floyd does.
Better add Tony Ayala Jr, Johnny Bumphus and Michael Nunn.
To be ATG, IMO, one has to apply those talents and prove them out against the finest possible competition.
I also class Mayweather ATG too, I know where you are coming from though he has missed some good fighters out that he could have fought and would have beaten IMO BUT in the modern game where everyone seems to want to win as many ABC's in as many divisions as they can it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes it's easier to fight a lesser opponent, look great and move onto a title shot in your new division then it's time to do it again. Floyd needs to fight Pac otherwise he will always be remembered as the fighter who never faced his biggest rival.
I don't place either in that category. But I try to keep things like that pretty restrictive. I look at Oscar and I say two things. First, an exemplary career in terms of what he tried to do. I mean daring match after daring match. I LOVE that! But I think his biggest win is who? An ancient Chavez? A pretty old Sweet Pea? Pretty clear he got robbed by EPO in the second Shane fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuKind of a change of subject but do you class Oscar as an ATG? He is a man IMO who pretty much fought the best out there and fought at a good level throughout his career and apart from the Pacquiao fight when he was clearly weight drained was never embarassed. I do class Oscar as an ATG if your wondering.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiSo what? Pro boxing is NOT the NFL combine. If we're going to call guys ATG's based on talent?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
And I can gaurentee you that none of them had half the ring talent that Floyd does.
Better add Tony Ayala Jr, Johnny Bumphus and Michael Nunn.
To be ATG, IMO, one has to apply those talents and prove them out against the finest possible competition.
I also class Mayweather ATG too, I know where you are coming from though he has missed some good fighters out that he could have fought and would have beaten IMO BUT in the modern game where everyone seems to want to win as many ABC's in as many divisions as they can it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes it's easier to fight a lesser opponent, look great and move onto a title shot in your new division then it's time to do it again. Floyd needs to fight Pac otherwise he will always be remembered as the fighter who never faced his biggest rival.
I know people want to excuse the current state of the sport when they rank recent fighters, but I'm unwilling to do that. Fighters did what they did.
Let me give an example. Guy named Willie Joyce. Never heard of him right? Never won a title, not in the HOF. But Willie Joyce has wins over ATG Ike Williams twice and a faded ATG in Henry Armstrong (twice). Or a guy like Jose Basora. Again, no titles, not in the HOF. 78 wins including HOFer Fritzie Zivic, HOFer Holman Williams (twice) and a draw with a 24 year old Ray Robinson.
I think we have to be careful with titles like ATG.
Interesting read about what people thought of Floyd 5 years ago, he did eventually fight and beat Shane, Judah, ODH and Hatton. Just a shame he fought Hatton at welter, fought Judah after he lost to Baldamor and never fought Marg/Cotto which would have enhanced his legacy. A quality fighter nonetheless just not an ATG.