Can floyd be an all time great?

[marbleheadmaui]

I can literally name dozens of guys who have done that you wouldn't call ATG's.

And I can gaurentee you that none of them had half the ring talent that Floyd does.

So what? Pro boxing is NOT the NFL combine. If we're going to call guys ATG's based on talent?

Better add Tony Ayala Jr, Johnny Bumphus and Michael Nunn.

To be ATG, IMO, one has to apply those talents and prove them out against the finest possible competition.

[rjj tszyu]

I can literally name dozens of guys who have done that you wouldn't call ATG's.

And I can gaurentee you that none of them had half the ring talent that Floyd does.

So what? Pro boxing is NOT the NFL combine. If we're going to call guys ATG's based on talent?

Better add Tony Ayala Jr, Johnny Bumphus and Michael Nunn.

To be ATG, IMO, one has to apply those talents and prove them out against the finest possible competition.

Kind of a change of subject but do you class Oscar as an ATG? He is a man IMO who pretty much fought the best out there and fought at a good level throughout his career and apart from the Pacquiao fight when he was clearly weight drained was never embarassed. I do class Oscar as an ATG if your wondering.

I also class Mayweather ATG too, I know where you are coming from though he has missed some good fighters out that he could have fought and would have beaten IMO BUT in the modern game where everyone seems to want to win as many ABC's in as many divisions as they can it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes it's easier to fight a lesser opponent, look great and move onto a title shot in your new division then it's time to do it again. Floyd needs to fight Pac otherwise he will always be remembered as the fighter who never faced his biggest rival.

[marbleheadmaui]

I can literally name dozens of guys who have done that you wouldn't call ATG's.

And I can gaurentee you that none of them had half the ring talent that Floyd does.

So what? Pro boxing is NOT the NFL combine. If we're going to call guys ATG's based on talent?

Better add Tony Ayala Jr, Johnny Bumphus and Michael Nunn.

To be ATG, IMO, one has to apply those talents and prove them out against the finest possible competition.

Kind of a change of subject but do you class Oscar as an ATG? He is a man IMO who pretty much fought the best out there and fought at a good level throughout his career and apart from the Pacquiao fight when he was clearly weight drained was never embarassed. I do class Oscar as an ATG if your wondering.

I also class Mayweather ATG too, I know where you are coming from though he has missed some good fighters out that he could have fought and would have beaten IMO BUT in the modern game where everyone seems to want to win as many ABC's in as many divisions as they can it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes it's easier to fight a lesser opponent, look great and move onto a title shot in your new division then it's time to do it again. Floyd needs to fight Pac otherwise he will always be remembered as the fighter who never faced his biggest rival.

I don't place either in that category. But I try to keep things like that pretty restrictive. I look at Oscar and I say two things. First, an exemplary career in terms of what he tried to do. I mean daring match after daring match. I LOVE that! But I think his biggest win is who? An ancient Chavez? A pretty old Sweet Pea? Pretty clear he got robbed by EPO in the second Shane fight.

I know people want to excuse the current state of the sport when they rank recent fighters, but I'm unwilling to do that. Fighters did what they did.

Let me give an example. Guy named Willie Joyce. Never heard of him right? Never won a title, not in the HOF. But Willie Joyce has wins over ATG Ike Williams twice and a faded ATG in Henry Armstrong (twice). Or a guy like Jose Basora. Again, no titles, not in the HOF. 78 wins including HOFer Fritzie Zivic, HOFer Holman Williams (twice) and a draw with a 24 year old Ray Robinson.

I think we have to be careful with titles like ATG.

[Master]

Interesting read about what people thought of Floyd 5 years ago, he did eventually fight and beat Shane, Judah, ODH and Hatton. Just a shame he fought Hatton at welter, fought Judah after he lost to Baldamor and never fought Marg/Cotto which would have enhanced his legacy. A quality fighter nonetheless just not an ATG.