Thoughts?!
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Thoughts?!
First thought is Joshua definitely looks to have better footwork early on. Looks quicker but can have some amateur patterns. Lennox was so calm cool and collected. Way too early for Joshua to tell. At almost same stage he was face planting Razor Ruddock on Halloween night. A heavyweight tournament final four of the very best of the era. And stuff like that makes you a believer.
Yes, one step at a time. He needs to dispatch tough, but crude Molina quickly IMO and I think he will.Joshua and Errol Spence are the two most talented young prospects I've seen in a while.Joshua is the most promising heavyweight in a decade. Tremendously skilled and has the size and power to boot. "A finely tuned athletic machine" to quote the movie, "The Waterboy".Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I think they're comparable. Lewis was a more natural athlete for me. From where Joshua is now Lewis just basically went on a who's who of 90's heavyweight boxing. There were a few duff fights, the two blips, but his career was exceptional.
At the same stage of their career Lewis was Brit/Euro champ but you could argue that he had fought better people.
Yes Lennox opposition was much better quality for me - but again as we keep saying a different era for heavyweights with much more talent about.
We'll be able to judge him better when he gets in with a Wilder, Klitschko , Haye etc... or even someone like Jennings.
And what will happen when he's in a fight where it's not going his way ? That's when we'll find out a lot (Still angers me the people who say a prime Tyson was better than Ali etc. :mad:)
Can't fault him at all for where he is now though - bit I will moan that he's gone on ppv too early
Lewis fought in the second greatest era of HW boxing (the 90s), so it's hard to say at this stage.
Joshua hasn't fought anyone, or learned his trade yet & he's already a so-called 'HW champion of the world'!:mad:
One thing I can say is that Joshua looks better than Lewis did early on in his career, as Lennox was reckless & over reliant on his big Right hand which led to his ultimate demise against McCall.
Saying that, Joshua has not beaten anyone to date as good as Gary Mason & Lewis did that in his 14th fight.
Yes he can but a long way to go.
Lewis improved vastly under Manny and that version would be difficult to beat.
Lewis is the best in history, pomp for pomp would have beaten them all
josh has a long way to go and a lot of questions to answer
Sure, AJ can develop into a great heavyweight but he's going to have to be able to deal with a lot of things in order to achieve that. He needs to keep progressing, he needs to be wary of trap fights, he needs to remain humble, and he needs to know that he can win on the cards or get the KO when he needs it. He'll need to be able to get off the canvas to win, he'll need to be able to avenge losses, and he'll need to be able to put poor performances behind him because not every fight will be a great one from him.
Uh don't you mean Frank Bruno???Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I think Joshua is very tense when he fights whereas Lewis always looked relaxed and almost under eager at times while maintainting 100% concentration.
Intelligence has a lot to do with what a fighter becomes and Lewis takes this dept.
Vendettos View 《--- my new thing
If they faced each other (and they where both Joshuas age now) Lewis would KO or 120-108 him
If they faced each other at the time they both won their first world titles Lewis would KO or 120-108 him
There's no telling where Joshua will go but he has a long way and a lot of names to go to even be considered alongside Lewis
LEWIS was in a tougher division before the dawn of THE dinosaur that made his exit prior to the title holder with the questionable voice and crystal balls. What Joshua needs is a promoter that will show off his skills getting the best to fight him. As of this moment Joshua is climbing that rope and learning his time is now.
All of this is very true.....although at times Lennox Lewis WAS indeed under eager. Lennox vs Bruno was a lazy Lennox, Lennox vs Briggs started lazy, Lennox vs Rahman I was lazy. That said, Lennox had it in him to have that switch flipped and when he was "ON" he was amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
I do worry about AJ being a bit too stiff, you use up a lot of energy staying that tense. AJ and the fans don't need to worry about how he'd do vs Lennox, they need to wonder how he'll do against Wlad or Wilder or Parker or whomever else.
And just to note, that kind of thing can/will/and has happened to every fighter in the history of the sport.
At the very least, Lennox is a top 10 ATG HW, and IMO a top 5.
So like others have said, Joshua has many years of winning ahead of him if he wants to be considered to be at that level. He seems to have all the physical tools one would need.
I remember when people were talking about Audley Harrison being the next Lennox Lewis, so hopefully he's not another Audley Harrison.
I think AJ will have a longer career and retire in his late 30's so can dominate the division over the long term.
He'll never be greater because he doesn't have the same quality of opposition to prove it even if he is. He's several fights into world title level (2010s era world title level) and next up he's fighting a schoolteacher.
AJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
Agreed about Lewis being the best ever and being able to beat any heavyweight in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Why the hostility against Kirkland?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
Lewis beat Mason very early in his career that trumps AJ.
Um because he's a pompous asshole....that good enough? In this case he's also terribly wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhy the hostility against Kirkland?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
Lewis beat Mason very early in his career that trumps AJ.
Mason? I think sparking out Kevin Johnson is a pretty decent win for a fighter's 13th bout. Gary Mason....perhaps a great British boxer, but on the world stage he wasn't anything special.
I'd give Whyte and Brezeale a healthy chance against Mason.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhy the hostility against Kirkland?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
Lewis beat Mason very early in his career that trumps AJ.
Then I give up on you, I really do. Wash my hands of you now. It is over. Bye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI'd give Whyte and Brezeale a healthy chance against Mason.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWhy the hostility against Kirkland?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
Lewis beat Mason very early in his career that trumps AJ.
The ONLY people I've heard of on Mason's entire record are: Lennox, Biggs, Bigfoot Martin, Quick Tillis, Donnie Long, David Jaco, Alfonso Ratliff, and Sammy Scaff.....of those fighters only Lennox and Tillis had what I would call successful professional careers and this was in an era where there WERE big fights to be had but apparently Mason didn't want any of those (gee I wonder why :rolleyes: ). The rest of those opponents I heard of were just that OPPONENTS, they were guys people fought to get rounds in or get experience, they weren't title holders, title contenders, or even acid tests, they were certified Tomato Cans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I'll tell you this right now, 'Bonecrusher' Smith would have blasted Mason out of the water, 'Razor' Rudduck would have smashed him, Morrison would have schooled him, Ray Mercer, Old Foreman, Oliver McCall, Bruce Seldon, Larry Donald, fucking Pierre Coetzer would have beaten him IMO!
Gary Mason (God rest his soul) never fought anyone with a pulse until Lennox came along. Tillis at the time they fought already had 14 losses on his record and just got done getting stopped by Holyfield.
Bruno is the best lb4lb fighter over 6 rounds in historyQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongSure, AJ can develop into a great heavyweight but he's going to have to be able to deal with a lot of things in order to achieve that. He needs to keep progressing, he needs to be wary of trap fights, he needs to remain humble, and he needs to know that he can win on the cards or get the KO when he needs it. He'll need to be able to get off the canvas to win, he'll need to be able to avenge losses, and he'll need to be able to put poor performances behind him because not every fight will be a great one from him.
Uh don't you mean Frank Bruno???Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I was teasing Primo. I know Mason was not that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThe ONLY people I've heard of on Mason's entire record are: Lennox, Biggs, Bigfoot Martin, Quick Tillis, Donnie Long, David Jaco, Alfonso Ratliff, and Sammy Scaff.....of those fighters only Lennox and Tillis had what I would call successful professional careers and this was in an era where there WERE big fights to be had but apparently Mason didn't want any of those (gee I wonder why :rolleyes: ). The rest of those opponents I heard of were just that OPPONENTS, they were guys people fought to get rounds in or get experience, they weren't title holders, title contenders, or even acid tests, they were certified Tomato Cans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I'll tell you this right now, 'Bonecrusher' Smith would have blasted Mason out of the water, 'Razor' Rudduck would have smashed him, Morrison would have schooled him, Ray Mercer, Old Foreman, Oliver McCall, Bruce Seldon, Larry Donald, fucking Pierre Coetzer would have beaten him IMO!
Gary Mason (God rest his soul) never fought anyone with a pulse until Lennox came along. Tillis at the time they fought already had 14 losses on his record and just got done getting stopped by Holyfield.
BTW all those fighters would give AJ a good fight much better than anyone he has fought until now.
Sure you were ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yeah in their primes they were good fighters....not perfect, but good. They were just as inconsistent as the guys floating around now who can't grab hold of the belts. More exciting to watch maybe (probably because they were more apt to fight each other), but also with that excitement they were more apt to lose when they shouldn't have....like Mercer to old Holmes or Morrison to Hipp or Ruddock to Jaco and so on
I did not rate Mason at all but Lennox taking him on at the stage he was and the "record" Gary had built was a big test and jump in class for Lennox.
Which just goes to prove that the current division is just beyond threadbare compared to the Lewis era. Seventeen fights during which you beat possibly the worst beltholder ever for your title and then you're fighting schoolteachers.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
Also AJ has not gone more than 7 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingWhich just goes to prove that the current division is just beyond threadbare compared to the Lewis era. Seventeen fights during which you beat possibly the worst beltholder ever for your title and then you're fighting schoolteachers.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
I'd actually defend Dixon more than a Mason ;D Within one year he stood and traded with Sanders, Seldon who he had rocked bad, Mercer in a slugfest, McCall and then demolished a top 5 heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAJ is 17 fights into his career....when Lennox Lewis was 20 fight into HIS career he fought the ALL-TIME GREAT then 10-5-0 Mike DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Go fuck yourself
Ha ha, a thread about Joshua and the long long line of illustrious British heavyweights 😜. It's probably true to say they - at the moment he turned pro - AJ was already at least the second best heavyweight in British heavyweight history!
You could even argue he is the best British produced heavyweight of all time, as Lennox learnt to box and was really produced by the Canadian amateur system and then truly created by Manny Steward.
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Lennox was born here and therefore English the queen.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
what the fuck are you on about you mong?Quote:
Originally Posted by X
What do you mean, he's fucking bang on the money. How much Boxing did Lennox do in the UK before he turned Pro? He won an Olympic Gold Medal for CANADA ffs!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44what the fuck are you on about you mong?Quote:
Originally Posted by X
The UK is probably Lennox Lewis's 3rd Nationality behind Canada and Jamaica!
so what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWhat do you mean, he's fucking bang on the money. How much Boxing did Lennox do in the UK before he turned Pro? He won an Olympic Gold Medal for CANADA ffs!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44what the fuck are you on about you mong?Quote:
Originally Posted by X
The UK is probably Lennox Lewis's 3rd Nationality behind Canada and Jamaica!
is many pac American? all his best work and best achievements have been under an American trainer after all
and the first sentence/paragraph is just as much stupidity as the second
there aren't half a lot of moaning bastards around here
stop fuckin moaning and have a bit of respect
I can see you're a bit touchy about this, but you really need to take the rose tinted spectacles off and stop claiming other countries men as yours. that's pretty desperate if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44so what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWhat do you mean, he's fucking bang on the money. How much Boxing did Lennox do in the UK before he turned Pro? He won an Olympic Gold Medal for CANADA ffs!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44what the fuck are you on about you mong?Quote:
Originally Posted by X
The UK is probably Lennox Lewis's 3rd Nationality behind Canada and Jamaica!
is many pac American? all his best work and best achievements have been under an American trainer after all
and the first sentence/paragraph is just as much stupidity as the second
there aren't half a lot of moaning bastards around here
stop fuckin moaning and have a bit of respect
No, Manny Pac isn't American, he started his career in the Phillipines, which is where he lived ALL his early life and boxes in the States for the exposure. Furthermore, he doesn't claim to be American and he lives in the Phillipines and actually is a Parliamentary member in his Country, so let's not be pathetic. I suppose GGG and Kov are American?:rolleyes:
And I'm not moaning, I'm just stating facts.
Why do you have to claim somebody else's guy as your own? to me, Boxing is individual , it has fuck all to do with nationalities. If a Boxer from Italy was fighting a Brit or an American, I would say if he stood no chance. Nationality doesn't affect my judgement , unlike you.
I wouldn't be saying Oh Brook COULD beat GGG just cos he's a brit.
I wholeheartedly agree with the tense/stiff comments, I hope he will become more fluid and happier on the job.
I believe that the reason he may be tense is the sheer pressure he is under, or puts himself under. The pressure is immense! In a one to one sport he could either earn hundreds of millions, or become the next David Price, after one silly mistake.
Hopefully soon he will have an enlightening moment and realise a) I'm better than I thought and b) for someone with my skills this is easy. Then he can relax and get on with it.
The whole system now, as I keep banging on about, discourages youngsters from going into boxing, where one or two losses basically fucks their career. Nowadays I would encourage athletic grandsons to go tennis/golf/soccer/etc. and not a sport that so wickedly punishes losers.
I think Joshua is too musclebound which is why he is tense.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuggetdotcom
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44so what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWhat do you mean, he's fucking bang on the money. How much Boxing did Lennox do in the UK before he turned Pro? He won an Olympic Gold Medal for CANADA ffs!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44what the fuck are you on about you mong?Quote:
Originally Posted by X
The UK is probably Lennox Lewis's 3rd Nationality behind Canada and Jamaica!
is many pac American? all his best work and best achievements have been under an American trainer after all
and the first sentence/paragraph is just as much stupidity as the second
there aren't half a lot of moaning bastards around here
stop fuckin moaning and have a bit of respect
I don't think I was moaning. I think Lennox was a great fighter and I think Joshua may end up as one too
Its a fact that Lewis learnt to box in Canada, that's where he got his amateur grounding and he won a gold medal for the Canadians. He had lots of amateur flaws when he turned pro and paid the price a coupe of times. It's a fact that he got much better and ironed out most of these under Manny Steward. Not sure how that's moaning mate 🤔
Its also probably fairly reasonable to say that British heavyweights didn't cover themselves with glory on the world stage before then. if you disagree, good for you for having a point of view.
Even if it's wrong
it sounds like moaning to me
owt positive to say?
and Primo what I'm touchy about is every single post I read is slagging someone or questioning someone or saying someone is shit or some fight is shit