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I think he has the record... lolololol....
Oscar, Reid and Whitaker all went down to Trinidad. The only one to beat Trinidad was Roy Jones. What does that say?
Well, in fairness, Trinidad should be 2 and 2, or maybe even 2-1-1 (draw to Whitaker, but Trinidad won it I felt)...
How does that crack you for a guy who had a very unpronounced amatuer career?
I thought he won the Whitaker fight clearly and although Pernell fought valiantly against a younger, bigger opponent he was far from his best. To get wins over 3 gold medalists is impressive on paper but there are better victories on his record that establish his quality.
That's a great achievement. I think Ali beat 4 out of 4 Olympic gold medalists?
Every time it gets mentioned I need to go back and score Tito-De La Hoya all over again ;D. Tito is greatly missed! Holyfield won over 3 gold medalists also. We won't get into Lewis rematch ;D. But while Mercer and Foreman were respectable, Henry Tillman really never measured up.
1. Roy was a silver medalist who was robbed of gold.
2. Oscar won that fight and it wasn't even really close.
3. Pea was a shell of his prime best, and a tiny welterweight when they fought.
4. David Reid was a solid win for Tito, as was Vargas (who was also an Olympian).
Tito did have a very impressive run, however, up to his fight vs Hop. Tito's wins vs Yori Boy Campas, Vargas, Reid, Blocker, and Joppy were extremely impressive. Watch his early fights and you will see true greatness. Before he fell in love with his punch/stamina, he was a masterful boxer with serious power in both hands.
I like Tito but Oscar dominated that fight.
But to be fair to Tito, Roy was way too big for him, he didn't have a chance in that fight. He was too small to hurt Roy.
The Oba Carr win was also excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
(...handwraps)
Definitely. He handled Carr much more easily than either Oscar or Ike Quartey. I thought Tito looked impressive vs Anthony Stephens as well. The loss to Bernard hurt Tito's legacy because that is what people focus on (plus his loss to Winky), but the guy was a legit great fighter in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaThe Oba Carr win was also excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I was a Carr and Campus fan and wanted them to beat Tito, also Vargas but became a Tito fan after he beat my favourite fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaThe Oba Carr win was also excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodDefinitely. He handled Carr much more easily than either Oscar or Ike Quartey. I thought Tito looked impressive vs Anthony Stephens as well. The loss to Bernard hurt Tito's legacy because that is what people focus on (plus his loss to Winky), but the guy was a legit great fighter in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaThe Oba Carr win was also excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Although the loss to Hopkins was hugely disappointing, I don't think it hurt his legacy at all. It was one of three losses on Trinidad's record, all to HOF'ers. Hopkins will go down in history as one of the greatest MW champions ever, and he was always a MW. Trinidad was coming up from WW and JMW. No shame in losing to an established champion at that weight. To your point of how he handled Carr easier than either DLH or Quartey, I would add that his showing against Hopkins, although a loss, was also a better showing than DLH against Hopkins... which was an ill-advised mismatch.
I'd also add that Trinidad's showing against Joppy was incredibly impressive, given that it was his first fight at MW against another legitimate, and noticeably bigger champion in Joppy.
To be fair to Tito I don't think he belonged at 160lbs. Obviously he was best at 147, and 154 should have been his max.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
He was tall but I don't think he had the frame to be a middleweight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidgilTo be fair to Tito I don't think he belonged at 160lbs. Obviously he was best at 147, and 154 should have been his max.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
He was tall but I don't think he had the frame to be a middleweight.
You're right about the frame. 160 was definitely not his best weight. Yet he beat Joppy and easily would've dispatched Keith Holmes, who Bernard drew as an opponent in the elimination bout leading up to the Trinidad showdown. Looking at some of the MW names in the division at that time, I think Felix would've fared fairly well. Obviously he wasn't going to go beyond 160, and there was no way in hell he would ever beat RJJ. But I think Trinidad could've hung at 160 and done ok for himself. Not so with DLH, who tried to add MW to his resume and failed miserably. Of course, DLH came from further down in the weight divisions also.
I think Tito could have held his own at MW but IMO would never be a great MW, like he was a great WW. It was also a relatively weak time for MWs at that point if I remember correctly. I would have liked to see him fight Howard Eastman, who had a great chin and could really crack himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidgilI think Tito could have held his own at MW but IMO would never be a great MW, like he was a great WW. It was also a relatively weak time for MWs at that point if I remember correctly. I would have liked to see him fight Howard Eastman, who had a great chin and could really crack himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
No... not a great 160 for sure. I don't think Tito was ever going to be one of these guys who can move through 4 or more weight divisions, a la Pacquiao. Myself, I've always appreciated those who carve out a legacy of excellence in one or two weight divisions, and own them. That make 15 or more title defenses. You've got the Monzon's of the world.... the Hopkins'.... even now the Golovkin's. Come to think of it, I just mentioned three middleweights. ;D But you get my point.
I think Tito would have always struggled with Wright but I would have loved to see the fight at 154 around the time of the Vargas fight. The way he despatched Joppy was incredible considering Hopkins put all kinds of hurt on Joppy and couldn't get him out of there.
I say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodDefinitely. He handled Carr much more easily than either Oscar or Ike Quartey. I thought Tito looked impressive vs Anthony Stephens as well. The loss to Bernard hurt Tito's legacy because that is what people focus on (plus his loss to Winky), but the guy was a legit great fighter in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaThe Oba Carr win was also excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Although the loss to Hopkins was hugely disappointing, I don't think it hurt his legacy at all. It was one of three losses on Trinidad's record, all to HOF'ers. Hopkins will go down in history as one of the greatest MW champions ever, and he was always a MW. Trinidad was coming up from WW and JMW. No shame in losing to an established champion at that weight. To your point of how he handled Carr easier than either DLH or Quartey, I would add that his showing against Hopkins, although a loss, was also a better showing than DLH against Hopkins... which was an ill-advised mismatch.
I'd also add that Trinidad's showing against Joppy was incredibly impressive, given that it was his first fight at MW against another legitimate, and noticeably bigger champion in Joppy.
The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.
If you watch Jppy's fights vs Tito and Hop, you will see that while Tito's win was impressive, Joppy helped by trying to bully Tito (first fight at 160) and walked right into bombs. Against Hop, Joppy went into survival/spoiler mode almost immediately. I think Winky vs Tito at 154 is a great match up, but give the stylistic advantage to Winky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.
Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.
Your right that Joppy took a calculated risk against Trinidad. If I remember correctly Hopkins & Joppy had a wager about a stoppage. Hopkins bet he would stop Joppy. Probably a reason Joppy was more defensive, In saying that the beating was brutal & Joppy was a tough guy for surviving. Also I think Trinidad was Joppy's only loss by KO at 160. The others came at higher weights and much later in his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodIf you watch Jppy's fights vs Tito and Hop, you will see that while Tito's win was impressive, Joppy helped by trying to bully Tito (first fight at 160) and walked right into bombs. Against Hop, Joppy went into survival/spoiler mode almost immediately. I think Winky vs Tito at 154 is a great match up, but give the stylistic advantage to Winky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Yes, Hopkins' decision to not allow Trinidad to fight with illegal handwraps was the perfect strategy. It completely threw Trinidad off.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.
Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.
I know you are trolling but I just can't help myself. From what I recall, the hand wraps weren't illegal at all. I remember the issue being that Papa Trinidad was wrapping Tito's hands in a manner that was not allowed in New York (but allowed in other states like Nevada, Cali...etc.). This isn't a case of illegal activity like Margarito's plaster of Paris job, this was a little known/enforced rule that only a great trainer like Bouie Fisher would catch.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoYes, Hopkins' decision to not allow Trinidad to fight with illegal handwraps was the perfect strategy. It completely threw Trinidad off.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.
Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI know you are trolling but I just can't help myself. From what I recall, the hand wraps weren't illegal at all. I remember the issue being that Papa Trinidad was wrapping Tito's hands in a manner that was not allowed in New York (but allowed in other states like Nevada, Cali...etc.). This isn't a case of illegal activity like Margarito's plaster of Paris job, this was a little known/enforced rule that only a great trainer like Bouie Fisher would catch.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoYes, Hopkins' decision to not allow Trinidad to fight with illegal handwraps was the perfect strategy. It completely threw Trinidad off.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.
Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.
Rocco trolls, but by now it's like pissing into the wind... howling at the moon.
Most people ignore him and he eventually goes away.
Is wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
I dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIs wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?
Yeah?
Don't remember anything about dipping hands in water. Even Hopkins' trainer said it was only the way the hands were getting wrapped. It was re-wrapped and approved to fight with. Floyd fought after illegally using an IV. So severely hydrated that he required so much fluid through IV but instead of seeking medical attention he went home. Little Floyd who is too small to fight a monster like GGG at 160 and is supposedly a year round gym rat and never has trouble making weight. Whilst Pacquiao follows all the protocols fills in every form, informs the commission and then is still denied a shot for his shoulder before the fight. What Floyd did was actually cheating and against commission rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoI dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIs wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?
Yeah?
"Well, you just have to be honest, and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to let, not only the Puerto Rican fans hear this, but I want the Trinidads to hear that the Fishers, along with Bernard Hopkins, have no problem with them, specially when it comes to the hand wraps, cheating and all that. We never thought Tito was cheating". A quote directly from Fisher himself.
Rocco blindly follows Floyd no matter what you say to him and mentions the hand wraps all the time about Tito. He will not change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDon't remember anything about dipping hands in water. Even Hopkins' trainer said it was only the way the hands were getting wrapped. It was re-wrapped and approved to fight with. Floyd fought after illegally using an IV. So severely hydrated that he required so much fluid through IV but instead of seeking medical attention he went home. Little Floyd who is too small to fight a monster like GGG at 160 and is supposedly a year round gym rat and never has trouble making weight. Whilst Pacquiao follows all the protocols fills in every form, informs the commission and then is still denied a shot for his shoulder before the fight. What Floyd did was actually cheating and against commission rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoI dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIs wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?
Yeah?
"Well, you just have to be honest, and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to let, not only the Puerto Rican fans hear this, but I want the Trinidads to hear that the Fishers, along with Bernard Hopkins, have no problem with them, specially when it comes to the hand wraps, cheating and all that. We never thought Tito was cheating". A quote directly from Fisher himself.
You're fairly new, and obviously knowledgeable about boxing. So naturally you'll indulge RR for awhile and try to use logic and facts with him. That is until you realize RR is basically just a trolling, biased, hatemonger who carries on with his asinine arguments even after they've blown up in his face. Must be a riot at bar room sports conversations.
Floyd would win a bunch of rounds against Tito because he was more skilled boxer than Tito, but I think Tito would eventually catch him and KO him.
But Floyd wouldn't fight prime Tito, he would fight Tito after Bhop and Winky Wright chewed him up.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll just ignore him from now on then.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDon't remember anything about dipping hands in water. Even Hopkins' trainer said it was only the way the hands were getting wrapped. It was re-wrapped and approved to fight with. Floyd fought after illegally using an IV. So severely hydrated that he required so much fluid through IV but instead of seeking medical attention he went home. Little Floyd who is too small to fight a monster like GGG at 160 and is supposedly a year round gym rat and never has trouble making weight. Whilst Pacquiao follows all the protocols fills in every form, informs the commission and then is still denied a shot for his shoulder before the fight. What Floyd did was actually cheating and against commission rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoI dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIs wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?
Yeah?
"Well, you just have to be honest, and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to let, not only the Puerto Rican fans hear this, but I want the Trinidads to hear that the Fishers, along with Bernard Hopkins, have no problem with them, specially when it comes to the hand wraps, cheating and all that. We never thought Tito was cheating". A quote directly from Fisher himself.
You're fairly new, and obviously knowledgeable about boxing. So naturally you'll indulge RR for awhile and try to use logic and facts with him. That is until you realize RR is basically just a trolling, biased, hatemonger who carries on with his asinine arguments even after they've blown up in his face. Must be a riot at bar room sports conversations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaThanks for the heads up. I'll just ignore him from now on then.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDon't remember anything about dipping hands in water. Even Hopkins' trainer said it was only the way the hands were getting wrapped. It was re-wrapped and approved to fight with. Floyd fought after illegally using an IV. So severely hydrated that he required so much fluid through IV but instead of seeking medical attention he went home. Little Floyd who is too small to fight a monster like GGG at 160 and is supposedly a year round gym rat and never has trouble making weight. Whilst Pacquiao follows all the protocols fills in every form, informs the commission and then is still denied a shot for his shoulder before the fight. What Floyd did was actually cheating and against commission rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoI dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIs wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?
Yeah?
"Well, you just have to be honest, and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to let, not only the Puerto Rican fans hear this, but I want the Trinidads to hear that the Fishers, along with Bernard Hopkins, have no problem with them, specially when it comes to the hand wraps, cheating and all that. We never thought Tito was cheating". A quote directly from Fisher himself.
You're fairly new, and obviously knowledgeable about boxing. So naturally you'll indulge RR for awhile and try to use logic and facts with him. That is until you realize RR is basically just a trolling, biased, hatemonger who carries on with his asinine arguments even after they've blown up in his face. Must be a riot at bar room sports conversations.
That's what we all do. :)
All the comments Papa made about how he doesn't have hitting power without his handwraps, along with the fact that they had the hand pre-wrapped before Hopkin's reps were in the room, and they protested having to re-wrap, and the comments made by others warning about illegal or questionable wrapping practices, and the comments by opponents saying they felt like they were being hit by bricks, and the fact that Tito had no power against Bernard, and looked like a quarter of the fighter that he usually did... Not buying it.
You guys can have Tito as your champion. I see him as a cheat.
You're more naive (I chose the nicer of the words I had) than I thought, if you claim Trinidad's father would actually make those comments. Produce an exact, credible, direct quote backing up your bullshit claim... or go stand in line with Kellyanne Conway and her "alternative facts." The wrapping issue has already been explained to you ad nauseam, but your blinders don't allow you to do any thinking of your own, only to parrot the shit you read from fellow haters. You claim Trinidad had "no power against Bernard", but you fail to account for the facts that: 1) Trinidad was not a true MW, his best weight being 147. and 2) Hopkins was a true MW and had a hell of a chin, surviving 12 rounds with the likes of Kovalev, and never getting KO'ed until he was over 50 years old... and 3) the fact that Hopkins used a brilliant gameplan against Trinidad and beat him by outboxing him.
You have a right to your opinion, no matter how asinine. The problem is it's not even your own opinion. It's you borrowing opinions from other haters, and regurgitating them like an annoying parrot... and not having even the slightest backups for the outlandish claims you make. In the past, I've either ignored, or ridiculed you. This will be one of those few, rare exceptions that I will have bothered explaining facts to you, probably for the umpteenth (and last) time. After this I'll go back to my usual responses to you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFGC8ekdEm4
Don Felix is quoted in an interview with Gerardo M. Avila-Planas and David Mesqueue as being asked:
"Do you think that the Hopkins camp did it (made them re-wrap Tito's hand) to get to you psychologically?" and he answered, "Well, it got to us a little because, since I couldn’t place the tape that I usually place on Tito’s hand... I had to add some more gauze to make a type of pillow... This tends to take away some of the power in the punch."
Bernard Hopkins weighed in on the matter with an interview with Bernard Fernandez of Philly.com.. Hopkins said, "If you put on tape, then gauze, then tape, then gauze, it's like a [plaster] cast. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. I'm giving out some secrets here, but you can dip your hands in ice water and that tape will, like, marinate and become harder. But it's only cheating if you get caught. Personally, I think Vargas' and Reid's people dropped the ball. Naazim did a brilliant job in spotting what [Felix Trinidad Sr.] was doing with the wraps." Don Felix was also putting tape on the skin and over the knuckles, both of which are not in accordance with NYSAC rules. New York's head commissioner put his foot down and made Don Felix wrap in strict accordance to the rules.
Why thank you for that video clip, which basically does nothing to prove your asinine point, but rather reinforces the real story.
Now I'll proceed to add some exact, credible, direct quotes.... something I asked you to do, from some authorities who have a zillion times more weight in their arguments than you or any of the other haters could ever have.
"First I would like to say that my deputy commissioner and my commissioner did a diligent job that night. The rules are clear and fair. Mr.Trinidad did not violate the rules, that's why there was no suspension. Extra tape and gauze can be applied if the trainers agree and the commission approves, grounds for that will be protection only cause of injury. Under no circumstances can there be double layers of tape,which in this case there was none. The New York State bylaws say you cannot have tape on skin so the commission made them rewrap because of that fact alone." (NY State Athletic Commission Chair Melvina Lathan)
"Felix "Tito" Trinidad has fought here several times against some of the biggest fighters in the world: Oscar de la Hoya, David Reid, Fernando Vargas. He's always had opponents' corner people watching him wrap, as well as my inspectors. We have never detected anything illegal." (Executive Director of The Nevada State Athletic Commission Marc Ratner)
But I'm not gonna get dragged down into another mud-slinging battle with someone who hates with no facts, just parrots what other haters say. We've been down this road countless times, and nobody gives a damn about your conspiracy theories.
Melvina Latham's NYSAC mishandled the Gatti vs Gamache fight--where Gatti appeared to fail making weight but the commission granted him a pass. Gamache's trainer says he was told by the commission that the weigh in was fair and to "keep quiet". Joey Gamache is a shell of a man now. The same year, the NYSAC was responsible for Beethavean Scottland's death immediately after his fight--by not having the ref up to date on safety, and the doctors not intervening, and the medics on hand being ill prepared to handle the injuries, and transport to the hospital--the NYSAC have blood on their hands. So it's no surprise that they didn't follow the rules and allowed Trinidad to wrap his left hand without Hopkin's camp there to watch and tried to force the fight to happen despite the protest of Bouie Fisher. Luckily for Hopkins, Fisher was no pushover and they said they would pull out of the fight if Papa didn't re-wrap the hand--and when he did they saw that the wrap was illegal according to the NYSAC rules. If that isn't cheating, I don't know what is.
(if you want more about the corruption in the NYSAC read here: https://www.thenation.com/article/shame-boxing/)
Here's a quote from the man who was there, but you don't seem to want to address it...
Don Felix is quoted in an interview with Gerardo M. Avila-Planas and David Mesqueue as being asked:
"Do you think that the Hopkins camp did it (made them re-wrap Tito's hand) to get to you psychologically?" and he answered, "Well, it got to us a little because, since I couldn’t place the tape that I usually place on Tito’s hand... I had to add some more gauze to make a type of pillow... This tends to take away some of the power in the punch."
Here's a quote from a fighter who has decades in the sport and who spoke directly to his trainer concerning the infraction:
Bernard Hopkins weighed in on the matter with an interview with Bernard Fernandez of Philly.com.. Hopkins said, "If you put on tape, then gauze, then tape, then gauze, it's like a [plaster] cast. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. I'm giving out some secrets here, but you can dip your hands in ice water and that tape will, like, marinate and become harder. But it's only cheating if you get caught. Personally, I think Vargas' and Reid's people dropped the ball. Naazim did a brilliant job in spotting what [Felix Trinidad Sr.] was doing with the wraps." Don Felix was also putting tape on the skin and over the knuckles, both of which are not in accordance with NYSAC rules. New York's head commissioner put his foot down and made Don Felix wrap in strict accordance to the rules.
Experienced and knowledgeable trainers, such as Teddy Atlas, Tommie Brooks, Alton Merkerson, and others have all been quoted as saying that the use of gauze and tape and the different methodologies used by the different trainers are strictly for the protection of the fighter's hands... and does nothing to enhance the power of the punch. There's an extensive interview with Jeff Mayweather where he goes into the nitty-gritty details on hand-wrapping, also explaining that Trinidad's power was natural, not a result of any hand-wrapping theory nonsense. But I'll let you look that up, since you're the one bent on your "mission."
Trinidad had his hand-wrapping witnessed by the opposing representatives on all of his fights, as is made clear in the rules of boxing. There had never been an issue. It's been made abundantly clear that this wasn't an issue of cheating, but that the method used by Trinidad wasn't allowed in particular by the NYSAC. The wrapping was changed, and the fight went on.
Oscar de la Hoya was forced to change his hand wrapping prior to his fight with Pacquiao, on the insistence of Freddie Roach, when Roach noticed extra wide tape being used between the fingers, claiming this tape could roll up and create extra hard spots. Yet I don't see you carrying out a hate campaign against De La Hoya.
More knowledgeable boxing people than you or I have been quoted as saying that the only thing that adds power to a punch is the adding of a hard substance to the gloves (like Margarito), or the removal of glove padding, to expose the knuckles (like Resto).
But I'm frankly getting tired of responding to your shit.
Please start another thread if you want, which would be your umpteenth thread of why you think Trinidad was a cheater.
Or... which I personally would prefer... you can go fuck yourself.
I don't give a fuck about any of that gauze shit. How much could it really have helped him? I'm not going to put a bit of tape on my hands and go knock out Andre Ward. Fuck all that gauze shit, just sounds like sour grapes to me.
Well it's obvious Tito cheated as he couldn't hurt/beat/KO an all-time great, that was naturally bigger than him, who went nigh on 30 years without being stopped. Yeah, not the best argument.
However, we have testimony.
Previous Tito victim said - "it was like being hit with bricks." This proves he cheated.
Hopkins trainer said - "We made them wrap Tito's hands according to the New York commission rules, there was no cheating." This is ignored.
Tito's trainer said - "Wrapping the hands differently to what I was used to was a little unsettling." This is evidence that he normally wrapped illegal "bricks." Even though it was a rule specfic to that particular commission, they could have fought in Nevada or California and the original wrap was legal.
Guy brazenly accuses Tito of cheating then provides evidence that he wasn't/didn't. Saddos.