Felix Trinidad- Beat 3 out of 4 Olympic Gold medalists!

[Alpha]

I think Tito would have always struggled with Wright but I would have loved to see the fight at 154 around the time of the Vargas fight. The way he despatched Joppy was incredible considering Hopkins put all kinds of hurt on Joppy and couldn't get him out of there.

[mikeeod]

Tito did have a very impressive run, however, up to his fight vs Hop. Tito's wins vs Yori Boy Campas, Vargas, Reid, Blocker, and Joppy were extremely impressive. Watch his early fights and you will see true greatness. Before he fell in love with his punch/stamina, he was a masterful boxer with serious power in both hands.

The Oba Carr win was also excellent.

Definitely. He handled Carr much more easily than either Oscar or Ike Quartey. I thought Tito looked impressive vs Anthony Stephens as well. The loss to Bernard hurt Tito's legacy because that is what people focus on (plus his loss to Winky), but the guy was a legit great fighter in his prime.

Although the loss to Hopkins was hugely disappointing, I don't think it hurt his legacy at all. It was one of three losses on Trinidad's record, all to HOF'ers. Hopkins will go down in history as one of the greatest MW champions ever, and he was always a MW. Trinidad was coming up from WW and JMW. No shame in losing to an established champion at that weight. To your point of how he handled Carr easier than either DLH or Quartey, I would add that his showing against Hopkins, although a loss, was also a better showing than DLH against Hopkins... which was an ill-advised mismatch.

I'd also add that Trinidad's showing against Joppy was incredibly impressive, given that it was his first fight at MW against another legitimate, and noticeably bigger champion in Joppy.

I say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.

The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.

[mikeeod]

I think Tito would have always struggled with Wright but I would have loved to see the fight at 154 around the time of the Vargas fight. The way he despatched Joppy was incredible considering Hopkins put all kinds of hurt on Joppy and couldn't get him out of there.

If you watch Jppy's fights vs Tito and Hop, you will see that while Tito's win was impressive, Joppy helped by trying to bully Tito (first fight at 160) and walked right into bombs. Against Hop, Joppy went into survival/spoiler mode almost immediately. I think Winky vs Tito at 154 is a great match up, but give the stylistic advantage to Winky.

[TitoFan]

Although the loss to Hopkins was hugely disappointing, I don't think it hurt his legacy at all. It was one of three losses on Trinidad's record, all to HOF'ers. Hopkins will go down in history as one of the greatest MW champions ever, and he was always a MW. Trinidad was coming up from WW and JMW. No shame in losing to an established champion at that weight. To your point of how he handled Carr easier than either DLH or Quartey, I would add that his showing against Hopkins, although a loss, was also a better showing than DLH against Hopkins... which was an ill-advised mismatch.

I'd also add that Trinidad's showing against Joppy was incredibly impressive, given that it was his first fight at MW against another legitimate, and noticeably bigger champion in Joppy.

I say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.

The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.

Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.

[Alpha]

I think Tito would have always struggled with Wright but I would have loved to see the fight at 154 around the time of the Vargas fight. The way he despatched Joppy was incredible considering Hopkins put all kinds of hurt on Joppy and couldn't get him out of there.

If you watch Jppy's fights vs Tito and Hop, you will see that while Tito's win was impressive, Joppy helped by trying to bully Tito (first fight at 160) and walked right into bombs. Against Hop, Joppy went into survival/spoiler mode almost immediately. I think Winky vs Tito at 154 is a great match up, but give the stylistic advantage to Winky.

Your right that Joppy took a calculated risk against Trinidad. If I remember correctly Hopkins & Joppy had a wager about a stoppage. Hopkins bet he would stop Joppy. Probably a reason Joppy was more defensive, In saying that the beating was brutal & Joppy was a tough guy for surviving. Also I think Trinidad was Joppy's only loss by KO at 160. The others came at higher weights and much later in his career.

[ruthless rocco]

Although the loss to Hopkins was hugely disappointing, I don't think it hurt his legacy at all. It was one of three losses on Trinidad's record, all to HOF'ers. Hopkins will go down in history as one of the greatest MW champions ever, and he was always a MW. Trinidad was coming up from WW and JMW. No shame in losing to an established champion at that weight. To your point of how he handled Carr easier than either DLH or Quartey, I would add that his showing against Hopkins, although a loss, was also a better showing than DLH against Hopkins... which was an ill-advised mismatch.

I'd also add that Trinidad's showing against Joppy was incredibly impressive, given that it was his first fight at MW against another legitimate, and noticeably bigger champion in Joppy.

I say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.

The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.

Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.

Yes, Hopkins' decision to not allow Trinidad to fight with illegal handwraps was the perfect strategy. It completely threw Trinidad off.

[mikeeod]

Although the loss to Hopkins was hugely disappointing, I don't think it hurt his legacy at all. It was one of three losses on Trinidad's record, all to HOF'ers. Hopkins will go down in history as one of the greatest MW champions ever, and he was always a MW. Trinidad was coming up from WW and JMW. No shame in losing to an established champion at that weight. To your point of how he handled Carr easier than either DLH or Quartey, I would add that his showing against Hopkins, although a loss, was also a better showing than DLH against Hopkins... which was an ill-advised mismatch.

I'd also add that Trinidad's showing against Joppy was incredibly impressive, given that it was his first fight at MW against another legitimate, and noticeably bigger champion in Joppy.

I say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.

The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.

Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.

Yes, Hopkins' decision to not allow Trinidad to fight with illegal handwraps was the perfect strategy. It completely threw Trinidad off.

I know you are trolling but I just can't help myself. From what I recall, the hand wraps weren't illegal at all. I remember the issue being that Papa Trinidad was wrapping Tito's hands in a manner that was not allowed in New York (but allowed in other states like Nevada, Cali...etc.). This isn't a case of illegal activity like Margarito's plaster of Paris job, this was a little known/enforced rule that only a great trainer like Bouie Fisher would catch.

[TitoFan]

Although the loss to Hopkins was hugely disappointing, I don't think it hurt his legacy at all. It was one of three losses on Trinidad's record, all to HOF'ers. Hopkins will go down in history as one of the greatest MW champions ever, and he was always a MW. Trinidad was coming up from WW and JMW. No shame in losing to an established champion at that weight. To your point of how he handled Carr easier than either DLH or Quartey, I would add that his showing against Hopkins, although a loss, was also a better showing than DLH against Hopkins... which was an ill-advised mismatch.

I'd also add that Trinidad's showing against Joppy was incredibly impressive, given that it was his first fight at MW against another legitimate, and noticeably bigger champion in Joppy.

I say it hurt Tito's legacy because it is the fight most fans remember when they think of him. That, or the Oscar fight, and both made him look one dimensional. Tito is like Kelly Pavilik in that both were very solid fighters early in their career and then fell in love with their punch and were beaten by Hop. Tito had a great jab, good movement, and solid defense at his best. That's NOT what most fans remember, unfortunately.

The Joppy win was great. Joppy was the undisputed #2 middleweight at the time and Tito destroyed him. Phenomenal showing. In my opinion, this fight is the reason I don't give credence/credibility to the argument that Tito wasn't a true middleweight. The only guy at 160 who beats Tito during that time is Hop, and size wasn't the reason, Hop was just better.

Boxing fans are kinda that way by nature (what have you done for me lately). They probably remember the Hopkins fight the most because at least Stateside, Trinidad was mostly an unknown quantity until he fought DLH. Whereas here in Puerto Rico, he was well known way before the DLH fight. So Stateside fans got to see DLH, Vargas, Joppy, then Hopkins. Not a huge sample size. You're absolutely correct about Felix's jab, movement, and defense early in his career. I would add a very underrated quickness. Where we might differ is in the Hopkins fight. I think Trinidad went into the fight expecting to blow Hopkins away like he had most other opponents leading up to the fight. But B-Hop used the perfect strategy for Felix that night. Any undefeated fighter who takes his first loss can probably go back and look at what caused the defeat, and maybe tweak something here and there. Trinidad never had that chance, so it's academic.

Yes, Hopkins' decision to not allow Trinidad to fight with illegal handwraps was the perfect strategy. It completely threw Trinidad off.

I know you are trolling but I just can't help myself. From what I recall, the hand wraps weren't illegal at all. I remember the issue being that Papa Trinidad was wrapping Tito's hands in a manner that was not allowed in New York (but allowed in other states like Nevada, Cali...etc.). This isn't a case of illegal activity like Margarito's plaster of Paris job, this was a little known/enforced rule that only a great trainer like Bouie Fisher would catch.

Rocco trolls, but by now it's like pissing into the wind... howling at the moon.
Most people ignore him and he eventually goes away.

[ruthless rocco]

Orlando Rios, JR.: Tito the Great or Tito the Cheater? : Boxing News

[Alpha]

Orlando Rios, JR.: Tito the Great or Tito the Cheater? :�Boxing News

Is wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?

[ruthless rocco]

Orlando Rios, JR.: Tito the Great or Tito the Cheater? :�Boxing News

Is wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?

I dunno.

How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?

Yeah?

[Alpha]

Orlando Rios, JR.: Tito the Great or Tito the Cheater? :�Boxing News

Is wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?

I dunno.

How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?

Yeah?

Don't remember anything about dipping hands in water. Even Hopkins' trainer said it was only the way the hands were getting wrapped. It was re-wrapped and approved to fight with. Floyd fought after illegally using an IV. So severely hydrated that he required so much fluid through IV but instead of seeking medical attention he went home. Little Floyd who is too small to fight a monster like GGG at 160 and is supposedly a year round gym rat and never has trouble making weight. Whilst Pacquiao follows all the protocols fills in every form, informs the commission and then is still denied a shot for his shoulder before the fight. What Floyd did was actually cheating and against commission rules.

"Well, you just have to be honest, and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to let, not only the Puerto Rican fans hear this, but I want the Trinidads to hear that the Fishers, along with Bernard Hopkins, have no problem with them, specially when it comes to the hand wraps, cheating and all that. We never thought Tito was cheating". A quote directly from Fisher himself.

[Master]

Rocco blindly follows Floyd no matter what you say to him and mentions the hand wraps all the time about Tito. He will not change.

[TitoFan]

Orlando Rios, JR.: Tito the Great or Tito the Cheater? :�Boxing News

Is wrapping a fist differently really as bad as illegal IV use?

I dunno.

How about you take an illegal IV drip and I wrap my hands like Papa Trinidad did, soak my hands in water, and then beat you about the head and face and see how bad it is...?

Yeah?

Don't remember anything about dipping hands in water. Even Hopkins' trainer said it was only the way the hands were getting wrapped. It was re-wrapped and approved to fight with. Floyd fought after illegally using an IV. So severely hydrated that he required so much fluid through IV but instead of seeking medical attention he went home. Little Floyd who is too small to fight a monster like GGG at 160 and is supposedly a year round gym rat and never has trouble making weight. Whilst Pacquiao follows all the protocols fills in every form, informs the commission and then is still denied a shot for his shoulder before the fight. What Floyd did was actually cheating and against commission rules.

"Well, you just have to be honest, and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to let, not only the Puerto Rican fans hear this, but I want the Trinidads to hear that the Fishers, along with Bernard Hopkins, have no problem with them, specially when it comes to the hand wraps, cheating and all that. We never thought Tito was cheating". A quote directly from Fisher himself.

You're fairly new, and obviously knowledgeable about boxing. So naturally you'll indulge RR for awhile and try to use logic and facts with him. That is until you realize RR is basically just a trolling, biased, hatemonger who carries on with his asinine arguments even after they've blown up in his face. Must be a riot at bar room sports conversations.

[vidgil]

Floyd would win a bunch of rounds against Tito because he was more skilled boxer than Tito, but I think Tito would eventually catch him and KO him.

But Floyd wouldn't fight prime Tito, he would fight Tito after Bhop and Winky Wright chewed him up.