What is the Jab for?
Who used it the best in the past and who does it the best in the present?
Jab is a massive part of boxing..we should applaud it and not forget it.
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What is the Jab for?
Who used it the best in the past and who does it the best in the present?
Jab is a massive part of boxing..we should applaud it and not forget it.
Ali, Holmes, Liston, Louis, and Wlad had the best for heavyweight champions.
From point scoring to setting up big combinations.
Wlad can still come back now and win another belt.
If he could he would but he can't and so he won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
I was hoping he would have taken on Wilder beat him and tried to unify against AJ.
He could come back easy..he just doesn’t need to..
All roads go back to AJ and at his best that he could be for his age he could not beat AJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Joshua will be better with the experience and Wlad's chance is realistically gone.
So many ways to break this down and answer... Some initial thoughts:
Best Power Jabs:
1. Liston
2. Foreman
3. GGG
4. Ike Quartey
5. Larry Holmes
Best all around jabs:
1. Larry Holmes
2. Oscar
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Benitez
5. Finito Lopez
Classiest jabs
1. Roger Mayweather
2. Junior Jones
3. Kennedy McKinney
4. Macho Camacho
5. Floyd Mayweather
Underachievers with beautiful jabs
1. Michael Moorer
2. Jermain Taylor
3. Virgil Hill
4. Bruce Seldon
5. Mark Breland
Sporadic users of formidable jabs
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Roy Jones jr
3. BHop
4. Tito Trinidad
5. Gabe Ruelas
Dominant jabbers:
1. Lennox Lewis
2. Wlad
3. Barrera
4. Tommy Hearns
5. Marvin Hagler
Workman-like jabs
1. Glenn Johnson
2. Erik Morales
3. JC Superstar
4. Hasim Rahman
5. Mickey Ward
The above were in no particular order, and the following fighters with great jabs are in no particular order either:
Ali, Buster Douglas, Riddick Bowe, Herbie Hide, Kid Gavilán, Carlos Monzon, Emille Griffith, Ray Leonard, Willie Pep, Terry Norris, Winky Wright, Fernando Vargas, JMM, Raph Marquez, Izzy Vasquez, and Johnny Tapia.
You know who you have missed from that list of great jabbers?
Mike McCallum. The bodysnatcher had a beauty of a jab which could do all the things you described. His jab was truly artistic.
I wish ICB was here so he could tell us how he had a chat once with Larry Holmes about jabbing. It's got to be like a whip you know.
There are different uses for the jab scoring points, setting up combinations, controlling distance, temporarily blinding an opponent so you can move or attack. The BEST jabs can do damage by themselves without the help of the right cross coming right behind it.
Holmes, Lewis, Wlad, Hearns, Liston all had great jabs for doing damage, they controlled the pace and distance of the fights they won, and they all set up their attacks behind that jab.
Floyd Patterson, Mike Tyson, and Rocky Marciano on the other hand would jab their way in and let loose after landing the jab. Their jabs were overshadowed by the power they had in hooks and crosses, but all of them when they were winning landed good solid jabs to work inside or just to move a defense around as their opponents feared everything other than the jab from them so they would leave the front door open and BOOM a hard jab sends their opponents into immediate damage control and the shock of landing clean could stagger the opponents before the big punches land.
You can also use a lazy jab to invite or incite a right cross....you see guys like Ali, RJJ, Floyd will shoot the jab and drop the hand to invite their opponent to attack them so they can counter, that too is a way to use the jab.
There are many ways to utilize the jab effectively smart fighters will keep their opponent guessing as to how they'll use it....Wlad was amazing at that and I don't just say it because I'm a big fan of his I say it because 100% of everyone knew the jab was coming, but you didn't know when it was going to turn over into a powerful hook OR be used as a big bear paw to swat the guard down and land the big right cross....also there's no telling will it be a quick jab or a jab with force will it be doubled or tripled up :dontknow: but 100% of everyone knew the jab was coming.....they just didn't know how or what was behind it and THAT my friends is the complete mastery of a punch as it was tactical, powerful, and seemingly unstoppable.
May as well close the thread now.
Have you not got a link to an msn article on jabbing?
Body Snatcher is a great call, and DEFINITELY NOT the only one I missed. There are just too many examples of fighters with great jabs. McCallum is one of my favorite fighters ever, and what I would consider a true pro and complete fighter. I miss the 80s and 90s...Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was a great list and Sambu Kalambay had a good one. You nailed the best ones there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodBody Snatcher is a great call, and DEFINITELY NOT the only one I missed. There are just too many examples of fighters with great jabs. McCallum is one of my favorite fighters ever, and what I would consider a true pro and complete fighter. I miss the 80s and 90s...Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
well, it gives you something to do while you wait around for something to come in. a right hand. a left hook. something. anything. you throw it just short, so he cant counter it. he cant counter you, so he has to lead. so thats what you wait for. maybe you can get him to run into a big counter, or maybe he knows better, and will throw something at you just to get you to counter so he can counter your counter. may luck be with you. but its good to be able to have something to do in the mean time.
Richie Woodhall had a lovely jab, along with being a nice textbook boxer.
I like the jab of Riddick Bowe
WTF happened to Cassius ClayQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Holmes, Ali, Liston, Wlad, Foreman, Monzon, Hearns, Whitaker, Lopez, Quartey
You never jab just to be doing something; feint instead because you learn more and give away less.
The most important thing to do when you jab is to pay attention to what the other guy does when you jab.
When you start missing jabs on purpose to move your opponent into other punches, you have become a master.
Top boxers like Mike McCallum used the jab for exactly that purpose. He varied his jab in terms of speed, purpose and intent. Everything came after it. It was a real thing of beauty.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
George Groves, of the current fighters, has a beautiful jab.
Master I'm going to have to watch more of the body snatcher after what you have said. Gray not-so-old has really come up with a great concept there as the expert that he is. Missing jobs on purpose to move your opponent into a different position. That is even more genius than a feint
why feint your jab when you can throw it just short?Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
My guess is that you can throw quick different punches from a feint than if you have committed to a short punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuzowhy feint your jab when you can throw it just short?Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
anything you can do with a feint you can do with a jab thrown just short.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMy guess is that you can throw quick different punches from a feint than if you have committed to a short punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuzowhy feint your jab when you can throw it just short?Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
a punch has a few different parts. when you throw a jab a guy is going to be moving and reacting on two main parts. when your jab is coming out and when your jab is coming back. those are his cues. and to really set a guy up with your jab you must be able to provide those cues.
you can pick up on what a guy is trying to do to your jab so much more by throwing your jab just short cause you can compare how he is moving and reacting to every part of your jab. not just to when its starting up.
thats why a slow and steady jab beats a fast jab.
https://i.imgur.com/c0p9fQA.gif
cause the guy throwing his jab slow and steady can see and compare how the other guy is moving and reacting to every part of his jab. when every jab you throw is a bullet you cant see and compare your jab to his movements and reactions anymore. you get out of sync.
If you think too much about all this stuff you won't throw a jab at all.
thats not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I think the guys with the best jabs had many variations of jab and they knew when and where to use them. The easiest fighter to use as an example for that is Wlad because A) He threw the jab more than everyone else B ) He set up his entire offense from the jab C) Everyone who fought him knew what was coming but for the most part they didn't know how. Wlad would get his opponent so concerned about the jab they would never see the right cross coming right behind it, or they'd wait on that right cross and either eat jabs all night or get cracked by a left hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuzothats not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Throw is short, double/triple up, feint, really drive it in, slap down on the guard, swipe across at the guard, hook off of the jab because if you also double/triple up on the jab it'll really throw their defense for a loop.
Did you notice AJ trying to time a right hand over the jab. It caused Wlad to throws left hook at times instead of the jab.
AJ stopped Wlad after he caught him throwing a jab at the start of the 11th round.
Jabs can make you predictable which is why I think Roy Jones Jr did not throw too many.
That is a very good post. That is what I was referring to about observing the reaction when you jab. Throwing the jab short on purpose...if you are doing it on purpose and gaining insight from it then it works. At the same time the other guy is using your short jab to gain insight about you. And, if he is good, he knows he is out of range and won't react at all to a short jab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuzoanything you can do with a feint you can do with a jab thrown just short.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMy guess is that you can throw quick different punches from a feint than if you have committed to a short punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuzowhy feint your jab when you can throw it just short?Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
a punch has a few different parts. when you throw a jab a guy is going to be moving and reacting on two main parts. when your jab is coming out and when your jab is coming back. those are his cues. and to really set a guy up with your jab you must be able to provide those cues.
you can pick up on what a guy is trying to do to your jab so much more by throwing your jab just short cause you can compare how he is moving and reacting to every part of your jab. not just to when its starting up.
thats why a slow and steady jab beats a fast jab.
https://i.imgur.com/c0p9fQA.gif
cause the guy throwing his jab slow and steady can see and compare how the other guy is moving and reacting to every part of his jab. when every jab you throw is a bullet you cant see and compare your jab to his movements and reactions anymore. you get out of sync.
When I referred to feinting it wasn't to feinting the jab, necessarily.
Completely different styles Wlad lead with the jab, RJJ was a counterpuncher he wanted to invite his opponent to swing and then cut him up with the countersQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
I was not comparing the fighters just the use of the jab.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongCompletely different styles Wlad lead with the jab, RJJ was a counterpuncher he wanted to invite his opponent to swing and then cut him up with the countersQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yeah their use of the jab would be different considering they fought using different styles and tactics....but I guess that's wrong somehow :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI was not comparing the fighters just the use of the jab.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongCompletely different styles Wlad lead with the jab, RJJ was a counterpuncher he wanted to invite his opponent to swing and then cut him up with the countersQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
I was not saying you were wrong. I made a comment about Else and his use.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYeah their use of the jab would be different considering they fought using different styles and tactics....but I guess that's wrong somehow :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI was not comparing the fighters just the use of the jab.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongCompletely different styles Wlad lead with the jab, RJJ was a counterpuncher he wanted to invite his opponent to swing and then cut him up with the countersQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Then I thought of a drawback of a consistent jab which AJ exploited.
Then I figured that was a reason why Roy never made better use of it.
good. you get to win. he gets to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
otherwise it gets them real antsy. and they start thinking they got to make something happen. what that means is they start throwing punches when they shouldnt. the only choice they have.
you throw a jab just short. he counters. since you threw it just short you see it. so you press down on your front foot and push off into your step back.
https://i.imgur.com/oRnO1Xv.gif
or when you step back you walk him into your stuff.
https://i.imgur.com/9Qbfw0b.gif
these days we are all calling that a check hook.
its worth noting that just cause you throw your jab just short
https://i.imgur.com/eqKFjdp.gif
doesnt mean youre not in range to hit a guy with your right hand.
https://i.imgur.com/u3J7mKa.gif
provided of course you can throw your right hand the right way. that is with your upper body moving over your front leg. your chest coming just over your front knee.
Yeah and if you miss that shot like that you get knocked down the way Archie Moore knocked down Rocky Marciano in the second round of their fight. Dangerous punch for the thrower, about as dangerous as a leadoff uppercut like the one Buster Douglas through and then got knocked out after by Evander Holyfield
Great visuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuzogood. you get to win. he gets to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
otherwise it gets them real antsy. and they start thinking they got to make something happen. what that means is they start throwing punches when they shouldnt. the only choice they have.
you throw a jab just short. he counters. since you threw it just short you see it. so you press down on your front foot and push off into your step back.
https://i.imgur.com/oRnO1Xv.gif
or when you step back you walk him into your stuff.
https://i.imgur.com/9Qbfw0b.gif
these days we are all calling that a check hook.
its worth noting that just cause you throw your jab just short
https://i.imgur.com/eqKFjdp.gif
doesnt mean youre not in range to hit a guy with your right hand.
https://i.imgur.com/u3J7mKa.gif
provided of course you can throw your right hand the right way. that is with your upper body moving over your front leg. your chest coming just over your front knee.
you never need to get hit by that counter. when you miss a right hand bring your forearm over your face.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
https://i.imgur.com/YtcUzf2.gif
that lets you catch the counter right uppercut in the palm of your glove.
https://i.imgur.com/bBopPm1.gif
you wont see that move a lot these days.
lets talk about right hands.
two guys trade a pair of right hands. one guy is throwing his right hand the right way. his upper body moves over his front leg. his chest comes just over his front knee. the guy throwing his right hand the right way slips the right hand coming at him through the space next to his right ear and over his right shoulder. and, the guy who cant, gets hit.
https://i.imgur.com/ry4Tyg1.gif
thats cause when you throw your right hand the right way, your head moves off center, naturally preforming a slipping motion.
https://i.imgur.com/sXPjVkU.gif
when you throw your right hand and you just stay upright, your head never moves off center, so its a sitting duck. thats the most dangerous way to throw your right hand.
Great advice thank you
Again, a brilliant post. Especially the part about landing the right hand when the jab is short.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuzogood. you get to win. he gets to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
otherwise it gets them real antsy. and they start thinking they got to make something happen. what that means is they start throwing punches when they shouldnt. the only choice they have.
you throw a jab just short. he counters. since you threw it just short you see it. so you press down on your front foot and push off into your step back.
https://i.imgur.com/oRnO1Xv.gif
or when you step back you walk him into your stuff.
https://i.imgur.com/9Qbfw0b.gif
these days we are all calling that a check hook.
its worth noting that just cause you throw your jab just short
https://i.imgur.com/eqKFjdp.gif
doesnt mean youre not in range to hit a guy with your right hand.
https://i.imgur.com/u3J7mKa.gif
provided of course you can throw your right hand the right way. that is with your upper body moving over your front leg. your chest coming just over your front knee.