Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko have a lot in common. They were both tall, hard-punching HWs with weak chins, they were both dominant HWs, and they were both trained by Emanuel Steward. But, who was the better fighter between them?
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Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko have a lot in common. They were both tall, hard-punching HWs with weak chins, they were both dominant HWs, and they were both trained by Emanuel Steward. But, who was the better fighter between them?
Lewis
Better how specifically?
Both were all-time great champions.
I think that if they had fought during their careers it's probable that Lewis would win although not a certainty and a Prime vs Prime could be seen as a toss up.
Lennox is probably the tougher of the two, Wlad probably the more cagey of the two. Lennox probably a better improviser in the ring and Wlad probably better at sticking to a game plan.
Lewis
Lewis and it’s not really close
A shot Lewis stopped the bigger tougher brother in a close fight..which retired Lewis.
Lewis is better than Wlad because he had more spite to him.
Lewis was a tactician whose power benefited from his size. Wlad was an athlete whose patience and style benefited from his discipline.
I'd go with Lewis. He knew when to walk a guy around the block a few times and when it just easier to blitz them. His discipline waned sometimes and he came in bloated but he's beaten a wider variety of fighters. Some were more flash than cash (grant) and some were shells of their former selves (tyson) but he had the holyfields, the mccalls, the mercers, the golotas, and Vitali etc. Just cant say the same for Wlad
Lewis was a seasoned world champion who could dig deep and take the fight by the horns if he had to.
Both great fighters, yes they were great including Wlad. You do not be a champion for that long but Lewis fought better fighters and would have forced the fight against a vulnerable Wlad. No way could Wlad tie up Lewis.
Lennox would have detonated that uppercut he used against his brother but Wlad would be knocked out cold.
Yeah, LENGTH OF REIGN as champion is something yall might want to look into. Wlad is the 2nd longest reigning, defending heavyweight champion in the HISTORY of the heavyweight division.
Yall also need to look at the opposition..Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Tip my hat to Wlad for a long run but Fury ended it with a boxing lesson.
Yeah and Lennox ended his career SPRINTING away from a rematch against Vitali......meanwhile Wlad went out tried to get a rematch with Fury who took a hiatus to snort blow and ended up having an extremely long layoff again and then he fought Anthony Joshua tooth and nail.Quote:
Originally Posted by impYall also need to look at the opposition..Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Tip my hat to Wlad for a long run but Fury ended it with a boxing lesson.
Lennox did not sprint. Vitali eye was going to take too long to heal and Lennox was not waiting for no one. Nothing else to prove for mighty Lennox Lewis.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYeah and Lennox ended his career SPRINTING away from a rematch against Vitali......meanwhile Wlad went out tried to get a rematch with Fury who took a hiatus to snort blow and ended up having an extremely long layoff again and then he fought Anthony Joshua tooth and nail.Quote:
Originally Posted by impYall also need to look at the opposition..Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Tip my hat to Wlad for a long run but Fury ended it with a boxing lesson.
LOL....:thumb: sure thing broQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Lennox vs Vitali happened June 21, 2003
Vitali vs Kirk Johnson happened December 6, 2003
Lennox was of course free to leave the scene as the division was passing him by and that's exactly what he did.
6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLOL....:thumb: sure thing broQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Lennox vs Vitali happened June 21, 2003
Vitali vs Kirk Johnson happened December 6, 2003
Lennox was of course free to leave the scene as the division was passing him by and that's exactly what he did.
The overweight and out of shape Lennox was too much for Vitali. A fit version beats Vitali in better fashion.
That's your GUESS because they never had a rematch. They never had a rematch because Vitali was too dangerous. It wasn't the lack of money, it wasn't the lack of fan interest, everyone bar Lennox and his fans wanted that rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLOL....:thumb: sure thing broQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Lennox vs Vitali happened June 21, 2003
Vitali vs Kirk Johnson happened December 6, 2003
Lennox was of course free to leave the scene as the division was passing him by and that's exactly what he did.
The overweight and out of shape Lennox was too much for Vitali. A fit version beats Vitali in better fashion.
If Vitali was too dangerous Lennox would never have fought him in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThat's your GUESS because they never had a rematch. They never had a rematch because Vitali was too dangerous. It wasn't the lack of money, it wasn't the lack of fan interest, everyone bar Lennox and his fans wanted that rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLOL....:thumb: sure thing broQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Lennox vs Vitali happened June 21, 2003
Vitali vs Kirk Johnson happened December 6, 2003
Lennox was of course free to leave the scene as the division was passing him by and that's exactly what he did.
The overweight and out of shape Lennox was too much for Vitali. A fit version beats Vitali in better fashion.
Lennox won the fight.
Lennox cut up and disfigured Vitali.
Lennox got scared during and after the fight, Lennox hit Vitali with everything and the guy was still standing right there in front of him at the end of the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIf Vitali was too dangerous Lennox would never have fought him in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThat's your GUESS because they never had a rematch. They never had a rematch because Vitali was too dangerous. It wasn't the lack of money, it wasn't the lack of fan interest, everyone bar Lennox and his fans wanted that rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLOL....:thumb: sure thing broQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Lennox vs Vitali happened June 21, 2003
Vitali vs Kirk Johnson happened December 6, 2003
Lennox was of course free to leave the scene as the division was passing him by and that's exactly what he did.
The overweight and out of shape Lennox was too much for Vitali. A fit version beats Vitali in better fashion.
Lennox won the fight.
Lennox cut up and disfigured Vitali.
Ali gave Quarry a rematch because Quarry got cut....Lennox wasn't going to risk it.
I'm giving Lennox his due, he was a great champion, but that night he was getting beat and he knew he'd lose a rematch and that's why he retired.
Wlad could have retired instead of fighting Fury OR AJ he fought both and he was older than Lennox as well.
Lennox did not get scared, he damaged Vitali. There was nothing more he could have done.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLennox got scared during and after the fight, Lennox hit Vitali with everything and the guy was still standing right there in front of him at the end of the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIf Vitali was too dangerous Lennox would never have fought him in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThat's your GUESS because they never had a rematch. They never had a rematch because Vitali was too dangerous. It wasn't the lack of money, it wasn't the lack of fan interest, everyone bar Lennox and his fans wanted that rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLOL....:thumb: sure thing broQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Lennox vs Vitali happened June 21, 2003
Vitali vs Kirk Johnson happened December 6, 2003
Lennox was of course free to leave the scene as the division was passing him by and that's exactly what he did.
The overweight and out of shape Lennox was too much for Vitali. A fit version beats Vitali in better fashion.
Lennox won the fight.
Lennox cut up and disfigured Vitali.
Ali gave Quarry a rematch because Quarry got cut....Lennox wasn't going to risk it.
I'm giving Lennox his due, he was a great champion, but that night he was getting beat and he knew he'd lose a rematch and that's why he retired.
Wlad could have retired instead of fighting Fury OR AJ he fought both and he was older than Lennox as well.
If that's how you feel then go with that. Everyone wanted a rematch, everyone at HBO wanted a rematch, Vitali wanted the rematch, the fans wanted the rematch, other boxers wanted to see the rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
No one is begrudging Lennox Lewis' greatness....but instead of finishing off a rivalry that started with their first fight he retired FACT.
You can stomp your foot all you want, Lennox saw the writing on the wall and he knew to hang up the gloves rather than attempt a rematch.
I'd go with Lennox. Other than his snoozefest with Tua, Lennox was also sooo much more entertaining as a heavyweight champion.
I have to go with Lewis.
Lewis legitimately beat Vitali. He was getting older and his passion wasn’t there. Sure, a rematch would have been great, but you can’t fault Lewis for retiring. I highly doubt it was fear. It was just his time and much credit to him for not staying in boxing for too long. He’s one of the few who left at the right time.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongIf that's how you feel then go with that. Everyone wanted a rematch, everyone at HBO wanted a rematch, Vitali wanted the rematch, the fans wanted the rematch, other boxers wanted to see the rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
No one is begrudging Lennox Lewis' greatness....but instead of finishing off a rivalry that started with their first fight he retired FACT.
You can stomp your foot all you want, Lennox saw the writing on the wall and he knew to hang up the gloves rather than attempt a rematch.
Fury could never have outboxed Vitali in the same way as Wlad.
Wlad was a great champion but missed the spite..that missing spite would have continued the attack on AJ after the knockdown.
Lews beats all types of Wlad and stopped the best Vitali in his last fight..it’s that simple.
Well if you've gassed out trying to KO a couple guys before then you're more apt to play cautious and that's the 1 time it hurt him.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
I don't think Wlad was in the fighting mindset vs Fury at all, his focus was elsewhere...that said the dude kept his focus and beat any and all comers OVERWHELMINGLY for about a decade so he's certainly not this paper tiger that people like to make him out to be.
For the Lennox vs Vitali fight a lot of folks want to bring up that Lennox was prepared to fight Kirk Johnson and they act like Vitali was 110% prepared to face Lennox. #1 Vitali was always in tremendous shape for fights regardless of who he was fighting #2 BOTH fighters took the fight on short notice which to me adds more relevance to the calls for a rematch...what if they had both been prepared to fight each other...Vitali was to fight I think it was Cedric Boswell or some shit a fighter Lennox Lewis was head and shoulders better than even on his worst nights #3 I don't begrudge Lennox for retiring but let's not pretend we all don't know why he retired rather than take the rematch...he got out as champion :appl: that's why there was no rematch....the money was more than right, the fans wanted it, boxing pundits wanted it, it's THE missed fight of the 2000's.....would the result have been different? WE WILL NEVER KNOW and that's just how it is, Lewis supporters will say "Hey he already beat him".....meh it was 4-2 on all judges' scorecards and had Vitali not been cut (which was partially his own fault for leaning away from Lewis' punches rather than blocking them. Lewis' thumb caught Vitali's eyelid which is a freak injury that I haven't seen happen before or since).
A lot of folks like to act like Wlad was champion during this hundred year drought of heavyweight talent and it's simply not the case. He was a great champion.
I will go with history, Lewis never quit in his carreer however Vitali has. Plus Vitali was all banged up. Lewis would of won with a late stoppage anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLennox got scared during and after the fight, Lennox hit Vitali with everything and the guy was still standing right there in front of him at the end of the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIf Vitali was too dangerous Lennox would never have fought him in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongThat's your GUESS because they never had a rematch. They never had a rematch because Vitali was too dangerous. It wasn't the lack of money, it wasn't the lack of fan interest, everyone bar Lennox and his fans wanted that rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongLOL....:thumb: sure thing broQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Lennox vs Vitali happened June 21, 2003
Vitali vs Kirk Johnson happened December 6, 2003
Lennox was of course free to leave the scene as the division was passing him by and that's exactly what he did.
The overweight and out of shape Lennox was too much for Vitali. A fit version beats Vitali in better fashion.
Lennox won the fight.
Lennox cut up and disfigured Vitali.
Ali gave Quarry a rematch because Quarry got cut....Lennox wasn't going to risk it.
I'm giving Lennox his due, he was a great champion, but that night he was getting beat and he knew he'd lose a rematch and that's why he retired.
Wlad could have retired instead of fighting Fury OR AJ he fought both and he was older than Lennox as well.
Lennox for me, he beat better opposition and reversed any losses.
For the record Lewis knew Vitali wasn't going away and only getting stronger in that fight while Lennox was fading, few more rounds and Vitali would have knocked him out, just look at their body language when the fight was stopped, one was bouncing up and down wanting to carry on while the other one didn't wanna know anymore.
Shame we never got to see that rematch but i firmly believe Lennox simply didn't want it.
I should change my vote, I've been told I don't like Brits hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Lewis and Wladimir were both absolutely elite fighters. Olympic gold medallists, undisputed professional world champions with multiple defences and superb career records.
This is a good talking point question, much like debating who was better between Marciano and Dempsey or whoever.
For my money, the Vitali fight isn't relevant as a Wlad v Lennox fight would have been completely different.
Vitali was as hard as nails, and bigger than Wlad, but he could be outboxed. As a matter of fact, I do believe that Lennox retired rather than fight him again .... but so what?:confused: Ali never gave Foreman a rematch, Marciano never faced Patterson etc etc and nobodyvreally thinks the worse of them.
As two boxer/puncher types, I think Lewis and Wladimir would have been in a very very cagey contest, feeling each other out and maybe even heartening back to their amateur days in looking to score points rather than risk a knockout. Both guys could hit, both were brave and fit usually.
Both were also accused of being great athletes rather than natural fighters, and both were somewhat transformed by Manny Stewart ..... whoever had him in their corner would probably win a tight, quite boring points decision.
Your way to emotionally involved in Wlad..let it go.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell if you've gassed out trying to KO a couple guys before then you're more apt to play cautious and that's the 1 time it hurt him.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
I don't think Wlad was in the fighting mindset vs Fury at all, his focus was elsewhere...that said the dude kept his focus and beat any and all comers OVERWHELMINGLY for about a decade so he's certainly not this paper tiger that people like to make him out to be.
For the Lennox vs Vitali fight a lot of folks want to bring up that Lennox was prepared to fight Kirk Johnson and they act like Vitali was 110% prepared to face Lennox. #1 Vitali was always in tremendous shape for fights regardless of who he was fighting #2 BOTH fighters took the fight on short notice which to me adds more relevance to the calls for a rematch...what if they had both been prepared to fight each other...Vitali was to fight I think it was Cedric Boswell or some shit a fighter Lennox Lewis was head and shoulders better than even on his worst nights #3 I don't begrudge Lennox for retiring but let's not pretend we all don't know why he retired rather than take the rematch...he got out as champion :appl: that's why there was no rematch....the money was more than right, the fans wanted it, boxing pundits wanted it, it's THE missed fight of the 2000's.....would the result have been different? WE WILL NEVER KNOW and that's just how it is, Lewis supporters will say "Hey he already beat him".....meh it was 4-2 on all judges' scorecards and had Vitali not been cut (which was partially his own fault for leaning away from Lewis' punches rather than blocking them. Lewis' thumb caught Vitali's eyelid which is a freak injury that I haven't seen happen before or since).
A lot of folks like to act like Wlad was champion during this hundred year drought of heavyweight talent and it's simply not the case. He was a great champion.
Wlad could come back now at 40 plus and still throw a massive spanner m in the works for the top 3..but the fact remains he is still missing that spite that alot of the top heavyweights in the past had.
Wlad can compete in any era and deserves to be in the top 20 heavyweights of all time..but Wlad and his brother will always be behind Lewis..everyone knows that.
Lewis happily ducked the rematch but look what happened in the first fight..he won..and the corner had to stop Vitali as he was so badly cut/injured..we can’t rewrite history.
Do you think Fury would have schooled the late version of Lennox Lewis?..no way.
The difference in competition is massive
OK Wlad is missing spite....60+ wins 50+ stoppages, and no spite at all, :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Not in successful title defenses, not in title fights had, not in successful consecutive title defenses....Wlad leads those and by a wide margin.Quote:
but Wlad and his brother will always be behind Lewis
The CORNER stopped nothing, the ringside DOCTOR stopped the fight, Vitali was still ready to go, Lennox was extremely relieved it was all over.Quote:
the corner had to stop Vitali
I have no idea how Lennox vs Fury would go and I would reckon you would only have a guess as well.
Are you still on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOK Wlad is missing spite....60+ wins 50+ stoppages, and no spite at all, :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Not in successful title defenses, not in title fights had, not in successful consecutive title defenses....Wlad leads those and by a wide margin.Quote:
but Wlad and his brother will always be behind Lewis
The CORNER stopped nothing, the ringside DOCTOR stopped the fight, Vitali was still ready to go, Lennox was extremely relieved it was all over.Quote:
the corner had to stop Vitali
I have no idea how Lennox vs Fury would go and I would reckon you would only have a guess as well.
Doctor stopped the fight because it was a horrible cut, Vitali may have been ready to go but was saved the injury getting worse. It could have ended his career if it carried on.
Terrible ringside doctor..doing his job.
Yes and I'll stay the fuck on it too @Master ....people call Vitali out for quitting "He quit, he quit, he's a quitter"......no quit in him that night, no quit in him other than the time he fought Chris Byrd and tore the absolute hell out of his rotator cuff meaning he couldn't throw a punch properly so he was fighting with 1 arm. I mean I guess he could have continued the way Holyfield did when he tore his rotator cuff but that ended Evander's career for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yes the cut was horrible, nobody is complaining about the doctor @imp but it's a false statement to say either Vitali quit OR Vitali's corner stopped the fight....both of those are FALSE, UNTRUE.
But hey I guess if you want to say those things and not be corrected, then go right ahead because what actually happened apparently means very little to you.
Vitali is not a quitter and never quit during that fight.
The decision was not in his hands like so many other decisions in the countless years of boxing.
Lewis won the fight because Vitalis face ended up getting that way during the fight.
If Lewis face was like that the ring doctor would have said the same.
This thread is nothing to do with Vitali..he lost to Lewis so let’s draw a line under that one.
Wlad is a great champion buy I think the majority agree that he would never beat Lewis..all fantasy stuff anyway.
Lewis avenged all his losses.
Vitali is definitely a tough man and good champion. If not for injuries he would have had as long a reign as Wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongYes and I'll stay the fuck on it too @Master ....people call Vitali out for quitting "He quit, he quit, he's a quitter"......no quit in him that night, no quit in him other than the time he fought Chris Byrd and tore the absolute hell out of his rotator cuff meaning he couldn't throw a punch properly so he was fighting with 1 arm. I mean I guess he could have continued the way Holyfield did when he tore his rotator cuff but that ended Evander's career for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yes the cut was horrible, nobody is complaining about the doctor @imp but it's a false statement to say either Vitali quit OR Vitali's corner stopped the fight....both of those are FALSE, UNTRUE.
But hey I guess if you want to say those things and not be corrected, then go right ahead because what actually happened apparently means very little to you.
A huge damper on Wlad is that he avoided (although excusably) the best HW during his reign which was his brother. If they had fought and Vitali won, then his title reign and number of defenses wouldn’t be a factor. He would have been the same exact fighter, but would be looked at differently.
That is my biggest problem. I just have a very hard time believing that Wlad would beat Vitali and because he never proved that he could, his reign is tainted whether it was a good excuse or not.
Can we once and for all put away the stamp of 'weak chin' regarding Lewis. Two lackadaisical nights, two single right hands and two knock downs does not trump warring and staying upright against the punching likes of Ruddock, Mercer, Bruno, Tyson, Briggs, Morrison, Vitali, Tua, 24 rnds of Holyfield left hooks etc etc. Lewis just had more depth and polish for me. His jab was one that kept a guy at bay to be followed by brutal uppercuts and right hands. Wlads jab was a premier signature but at times it was also the entire fight and he used it as a buffer to almost prevent some good action. Both special weapons but I think with very different intentions as was their confidence. I think when push came to shove Lewis was just a harder man.
Also, I never got the sense that Lewis was fighting "not to get knocked out". There's a very fine line that goes unnoticed a lot of times, but can alter the whole complexion of a fight. Defense is one thing, and we all appreciate it. I love a good defensive fighter as much as anybody. But fighting "not to get knocked out" isn't just good defense. It's a style which exasperates and many times leads to questionable tactics in the ring.
Great Post!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli