Michael Herbert of Leicester is a hero and has freedom of speech

What a wrongful 5 year ban that was. But then again it happened in communist Russia so I'm not surprised. Oh wait a minute he'd be ARRESTED in the UK, I forgot

Things are getting really bad all around the world

This is where we have arrived June 2018. It's right out of George Orwell's 1984.

Fuck you. No true England fan would sing "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler's gonna gas them again" before making Nazi salutes while shouting "sieg heil, sieg heil." When that is who our captain plays for. Fucking clueless. We did not fight a war for the freedom to ape the cunt we defeated you fucking moron. 'Hero'? the cunt deserves more than a banning order.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

This is where we have arrived June 2018. It's right out of George Orwell's 1984.

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'We?' You ain't fucking English you retarded cunt. Fucking comment on your own country. England is not America and we don't need your permission or advice on what is a 'wrongful arrest' . Prick.

Hahaha #triggered

Plus, you're just wrong, mate. Herbert has the right to app anyone he wants, it's called freedom of speech.

Check out the Magna Carta if you have a chance

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Fuck you. No true England fan would sing "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler's gonna gas them again" before making Nazi salutes while shouting "sieg heil, sieg heil." When that is who our captain plays for. Fucking clueless. We did not fight a war for the freedom to ape the cunt we defeated you fucking moron. 'Hero'? the cunt deserves more than a banning order.

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You would say that wouldn't you, you authoritarian ideologue. Men get drunk in pubs, they say and do silly things. There is no need to make them politically correct by force. What he did was in bad taste and that is all there is to it. What next? The banning of Fawlty Towers and silly walks? Slippery slope. You already have no freedom of speech or expression and of course you love it.

If being a vile prick was a crime then we should have you banned for your last 2 posts which are rather angry and aggressive because as usual you cannot control your silly little feelings that nobody gives a shit about.

Exactly. What beanz has done in this thread (and SOOO many other threads) is WAY more vile than what Herbert did

Pick your battles Miles. You are more outraged by me than some cunt sieg heiling in an England shirt. It's not about being politically correct it's about not being a cunt.You wouldn't understand Miles. You have to be English and to love England. You don't have an ounce of passion about anything do you?

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Hahaha #triggered

Plus, you're just wrong, mate. Herbert has the right to app anyone he wants, it's called freedom of speech.

Check out the Magna Carta if you have a chance

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The UK has never had freedom of speech. The Magna Carta doesn't really cover this. The Bill of Rights does but it doesn't really extend to the general populace. The UK doesn't have freedom of speech, though most of the time it is never enforced as such. However, these days you are seeing a lot more cases of how limited it is.

So he should not talk about what is vile or what is in poor taste. If we start making laws about what is vile or what is in poor taste as Gandalf said that is beyond a slippery slope that is actually the road to Fascism. Allowing someone to say Heil Hitler actually avoid fascism taking hold. Forbidding someone to say Heil Hitler is fascism itself.

Its Saul Alinsky Method All Over Again

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Pick your battles Miles. You are more outraged by me than some cunt sieg heiling in an England shirt. It's not about being politically correct it's about not being a cunt.You wouldn't understand Miles. You have to be English and to love England. You don't have an ounce of passion about anything do you?

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I have plenty of passion and know what it means to be English. However, I do believe in a very non-English thing such as freedom of expression and if that means people sometimes act like cunts, then yes, sometimes people will act like cunts. What happened to being a punk? Sometimes people will throw beer on you. Are you going to go home and cry or are you going to snarl and carry on. You could just ban them from the gig for 5 years or something to teach them not to be a cunt I guess. A Nazi salute is not hurting anyone. Prince Harry didn't kill anyone when he dressed up as a Nazi. It is in bad taste and stupid. That is all. Do I agree with it? No. Would I do it? No. However, it isn't hurting anyone when people act like idiots. Some people cover themselves in tattoo's and look like thugs. I think it looks ugly. However, do I want to ban them because it is an insult to my taste and vision? No. You accept that people you don't like are out there and you can choose to say something or just avoid them.

As any great propagandists would say, accuse them of the exact things u do

https://www.google.com/search?q=ron+...Xq9MITjotXvfM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ron+...7N6Yms2kn4dmM:

Perfectly put Gandalf but these sjw sensitive snowflakes are so feeble and are so terrified of another Hitler coming along that they think the minute somebody gives that salute the next thing you know the whole country is going to turn to another Nazi regime overnight

Well hold on there. This guy wasn't arrested was he. He was banned from football matches for 5 years.


I'm all for freedom of speech and all, but I'm also very intolerant of racism, sexism, or any other -ism, especially when blatantly posted on social media. I think as adults we have a responsibility to comport ourselves civilly in public and when we don't, sometimes consequences have to be paid. Again... the guy was not arrested. But someone slapped him on the wrist and basically told him they don't approve of his behavior.

At some point you have to begin being even-handed with people and their incidents. We can't on the one hand decry racism against some groups, while winking at others. Drunkenness is often used as a "free pass" for unacceptable behavior, but again..... as adults you have take responsibility for your own actions. And shit like this just perpetuates hatred among the weak-minded and susceptible people of the world.

Only my opinion, of course.

Oh shit, he wasn't ARRESTED? Damn, it was just a 5 year ban. Well I'll change the title.

Hmmmmm..... another point, Well it was in Russia, so that's why.

UK he'd be arrested.

He may be a cunt, but has every right.

Oh shit, he wasn't ARRESTED? Damn, it was just a 5 year ban. Well I'll change the title, I got it wrong.

Hmmmmm..... another point, Well it was in Russia, so that's why.

UK he'd be arrested.

He may be a cunt, but has every right.

Comedy/parody is a world of difference than intentionally offensive behaviour, just because "we" don't find things offensive doesn't mean anything should be allowed. Nazi stuff means absolutely nothing to me, however, just take one glance at those disturbing concentration camp pictures in the other thread, if you haven't got some semblance of the horror and sensitivity of the subject then you are clearly devoid of empathy.

"Heroes" like him need to be weeded out and punished, he's not down his local with his "like-minded" mates, he's in Stalingrad representing England. He's the very reason why anyone displaying an English flag in England is seen as a knuckle dragging racist.

Only Brock thinks he is a hero. Personally I think he is a bit of a numpty for doing the Nazi thing, but I would be a hypocrite if I said that anything Nazi is to be avoided as I do listen to music written by people who did silly things like dress up as Nazi's. It doesn't make me a Nazi, it is just that I don't think it is worth crying over. You can bring up empathy, but you likely still buy petrol from Saudi Arabia and products from China. Authoritarian regimes are our governments and our own bread and butter. Yep, I understand full well the horrors of Nazi Germany too, but at the end of the day, if you want to offend me, then you will. It's like with Maradona doing the squinty eyes thing. It is in very poor taste, but he obviously does not represent anyone but himself when he does that and likewise I would be rich if had a dollar from every young person who has told me terrible things they would like to happen to Japan. It's in poor taste, it is ignorant, and potentially dangerous, but people are entitled to their opinions. Have a chat with the man sober and see if you can have a discussion with him first. Most people are quite reasonable if you have a word.

Miles if someone did that at a gig he would rightfully get the shit kicked out of him. If he did it at an England match there is just as likely to be a full on punch up. That is why he got a five year football banning order. I get you don't give a fuck about England on the day the country was United in celebration after a fantastic day, so now stop pretending you care, and stop encouraging the trolls.Fuck Nazis. Stop defending the indefensible.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Miles if someone did that at a gig he would rightfully get the shit kicked out of him. If he did it at an England match there is just as likely to be a full on punch up. That is why he got a five year football banning order. I get you don't give a fuck about England on the day the country was United in celebration after a fantastic day, so now stop pretending you care, and stop encouraging the trolls.Fuck Nazis. Stop defending the indefensible.

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I have to agree with beanz here. Miles is being indefensible feeding trolls and Nazis. He is obviously a closet Nazi

I take it you have never heard of Sid Vicious or Ron Asheton. :-\

You constantly make these silly assertions that have no truth too. I care about my country and it is just a childish, silly thing to keep repeating. What I am critical of is authoritarianism and that is essentially what Nazism was. However, I am also mature enough to accept that sometimes I will hear things I do not like hearing and this is how a free society should be. The criminalizing of political viewpoints is in of itself a form of tyranny. This is why, when it comes to freedom of speech issues, I tend to support freedom of expression. Do I express such views myself? Not really, but that is besides the point.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I take it you have never heard of Sid Vicious or Ron Asheton. :-\

You constantly make these silly assertions that have no truth too. I care about my country and it is just a childish, silly thing to keep repeating. What I am critical of is authoritarianism and that is essentially what Nazism was. However, I am also mature enough to accept that sometimes I will hear things I do not like hearing and this is how a free society should be. The criminalizing of political viewpoints is in of itself a form of tyranny. This is why, when it comes to freedom of speech issues, I tend to support freedom of expression. Do I express such views myself? Not really, but that is besides the point.

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Miles no disrespect but you are clueless. Apples and Oranges. I go to hundreds of gigs, not just read about stuff online or in a magazine. I have played the 100 club ffs and I can assure you that when Mclaren tried to get everyone to wear swastika armbands in '76 that the Clash refused to play. So nobody wore them. That is straight from the mouth of somebody who was there. The same guy I had the pleasure of talking to who was with your hero Strummer in Hamersmith Palais. There is a long and massive history of anti-fascism in Punk because the National Front and racist Nazi cunts are real things mate not some imaginary foe. It is the same with rude boy and skinhead culture. Racist thugs threatened to destroy it from within and so the ignorant fuckers who used to try and fight the very people whose music they appropriated had to be dealt with. If somebody is having a go at your mate, calling him a nigger and telling him to go back to Africa etc and pushing him around, you know he is not going to reason with you. So you stand shoulder to shoulder and either punch the fucker or drag him out of the club. People soon get the message that is not socially acceptable and that Nazis and far right NF cunts are not welcome.

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, 'This is not America'. On the day England celebrated their greatest ever goal tally at a world cup anyone could have guessed that the American misery merchants on here would have the hump and try anything to fucking kill the mood. That is how pathetic their lives and trolling is. Don't let them play you so easily.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Well hold on there. This guy wasn't arrested was he. He was banned from football matches for 5 years.


I'm all for freedom of speech and all, but I'm also very intolerant of racism, sexism, or any other -ism, especially when blatantly posted on social media. I think as adults we have a responsibility to comport ourselves civilly in public and when we don't, sometimes consequences have to be paid. Again... the guy was not arrested. But someone slapped him on the wrist and basically told him they don't approve of his behavior.

At some point you have to begin being even-handed with people and their incidents. We can't on the one hand decry racism against some groups, while winking at others. Drunkenness is often used as a "free pass" for unacceptable behavior, but again..... as adults you have take responsibility for your own actions. And shit like this just perpetuates hatred among the weak-minded and susceptible people of the world.

Only my opinion, of course.

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Thank you.

Ron Asheton wore those uniforms on stage, Beanz. Sid Vicious wore Nazi imagery. So did Lemmy from Motorhead. My point is simply that people should be free to associate with whatever imagery or politics that they like. Do I like Nazi's? Absolutely not. If these men are hardcore Nazi's then I don't like them, but if they are just a bunch of men pissed up in a pub, then I have more sympathy towards that. Either way, we do not know the ins and outs of it or them. I love Joe Strummer and hate Nazism and Communism too for that matter. I wouldn't persecute Prince Harry for dressing up as one though or some pissed chap doing a Nazi salute though. I will agree that it is vile and not something you like to see.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Ron Asheton wore those uniforms on stage, Beanz. Sid Vicious wore Nazi imagery. So did Lemmy from Motorhead. My point is simply that people should be free to associate with whatever imagery or politics that they like. Do I like Nazi's? Absolutely not. If these men are hardcore Nazi's then I don't like them, but if they are just a bunch of men pissed up in a pub, then I have more sympathy towards that. Either way, we do not know the ins and outs of it or them. I love Joe Strummer and hate Nazism and Communism too for that matter. I wouldn't persecute Prince Harry for dressing up as one though or some pissed chap doing a Nazi salute though. I will agree that it is vile and not something you like to see.

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So tell your friend Brock he is no hero and has little to do with freedom of speech.

Even if he tells me so, I think cowards and the feeble are enemies of free speech.

Cowards and the feeble will soon get you on thought crimes.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Exactly. What beanz has done in this thread (and SOOO many other threads) is WAY more vile than what Herbert did

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Even if he tells me so, I think cowards and the feeble are enemies of free speech.

Cowards and the feeble will soon get you on thought crimes.

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Stop hiding behind the banner of 'Free speech'. The fact that me expressing my opinion is more offensive to you than some Nazi cunts proves that. You are just trolling. Even in Al's 'Asleep as fuck' thread I see now. Just fuck off Brockton if you are really that miserable, why are you so negative EVERY DAY OF YOUR MISERABLE WRETCHED LIFE? You might want to address that and then kindly fuck off. You just bring the whole board down. You know nothing about Football, English culture or our legal system so nobody gives a fuck what you think. You are a compulsive liar, a sick fucker and your opinion is just drivel and nonsense based on trolling for a response.

Only that's not true at all.

The banner of free speech is not something ignominious that one hides behind. The Nazi salute is an act of raising one's arm in a certain position. Singing a Nazi song is an act annunciating certain syllables and vowels in a certain order. Wearing a swastika as I mentioned in another thread in fashion for thousands of years before Germany was even on the map.

As vile or despicable or heinous or in poor taste or insulting as someone's arm gestures or color choices or songs are,. They cannot be legally punished for it.

This is about legality. This is about legal punishment. As personally offencive as so many of your posts have been nobody has called for you to have a 5-year ban. Gandalf does not have to agree with me that mr. Herbert said something vile or not. The whole point is that the banner of free speech is indeed itself a legal and god-given right

You cannot legislate what is vile and what is beautiful. That is not being a troll that is pointing out a fundamental fact which appears to be disappearing very rapidly worldwide with very little protest.

If you want to be worried about fascism then that right there is what you should be worried about and not some guy in a bar supposedly sullying and tarnishing the flag of the United Kingdom FFS.

ENGLAND you fucking moron. Not the United Kingdom. Not America. ENGLAND. ENGLISH LAWS FOR ENGLISH CITIZENS. Not America. You know nothing about football violence or growing up around the ruins of German bombs or what it means to be English so your opinion means nothing. How fucking sad are you that you are so obsessed with a country you can't even begin to understand and certainly don't respect. Free speech is not a legal and most certainly not a god given right what a cowardly pile of utter bollocks to hide behind. Wanker.

So who would you trust then to take away that freedom of speech? Who would you trust then to curtail it? Do you not see the slippery slope or are you just trolling the entire forum. You and your gang might think that it is cute to curtail freedom of speech or that one cannot have an opinion even now it looks like based solely on the paltry and irrelevant fact that one in your opinion knows nothing of English History.

What bollocks

Because of politically oversensitive chaps like you we are now scrubbing the name of the author of Little House on the Prairie and things of that nature and removing statues from 1776, next you'll want to change the name from sauerkraut to white cabbage with a little bit of vinegar FFS.

Clueless. Fooball banning orders have been around since 1989. Just because you don't understand the concept of law or personal responsibility, and just because you do not respect the right of England to make and enforce laws that would put you behind bars you cunt, it does not make them invalid.

"stirring up hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins, or against an individual as a member of such a group,"

That law is there for a reasonand I haveadded to many files without any feeling that i was impinging on anyone's free speech you whiny over sensitive twat, because it works. It means that if a firm or crew wants to have a tear up it happens away form the ground and everyone else can go and watch the game without getting into a punch up. It doesn't meant that banter or the right to rip the piss out of your opponents and rivals disappears. Calling someone a sheep shagger and sieg heling are not the same thing. Even singing 'No surrender to the IRA' is not the same thing. Doing Nazi Salutes in England and singing about gassing people deserves a smack in the mouth at least.

If you think you are the fucking big man fighting for freedom you pretend to be go, why don't you go down to White Hart Lane you arsehole and try fucking doing the same thing as those cunts you called heroes did there.

I do happen to believe that freedom of speech is a god given human right actually. Not as in actual God and sure there might be rules and regulations in society, but even law must be broken sometimes. Nazi Germany is a case in point. Solzhenitsyn was not allowed to say what he did in the Communist system but fuck it, you say what you have to. Same with Socrates. The same with Burroughs and Naked Lunch. To hell with the law and free speech regulation when you are alive in the here and now and the clock is ticking. Say it now or never say anything at all.

That is different to racist chants at games and things like that. Football is a game, it shouldn't be anything more than that. Socrates would not have been into football.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

That is different to racist chants at games and things like that. Football is a game, it shouldn't be anything more than that. Socrates would not have been into football.

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Socrates was a brilliant footballer.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I do happen to believe that freedom of speech is a god given human right actually. Not as in actual God and sure there might be rules and regulations in society, but even law must be broken sometimes. Nazi Germany is a case in point. Solzhenitsyn was not allowed to say what he did in the Communist system but fuck it, you say what you have to. Same with Socrates. The same with Burroughs and Naked Lunch. To hell with the law and free speech regulation when you are alive in the here and now and the clock is ticking. Say it now or never say anything at all.

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That is just daft and childish. Stop retreating into the same old failed arguments. The conservative old cunts that you now idolize have been shutting down free speech for hundreds of years. The fucking Herbert case was about Law and Order. Preventing Violence. Preventing England being kicked out of international competitions. Drawing a line in the sand. Nobody put him in prison like Brock claimed. Stop trying to make England into America and invoking the idea that nobody has any personal responsibility and that it is always everyone elses fault. Nobody forced him to Sieg Hiel FFS.


Fucking Socrates? Give me a break :vd:

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

That is different to racist chants at games and things like that. Football is a game, it shouldn't be anything more than that. Socrates would not have been into football.

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Socrates was a brilliant footballer.

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;D