Pre-fight hype: When it's warranted and when it's not

Quick, what do the following fights have in common?

Floyd-Canelo
Canelo-Khan
GGG-Brook
Loma-Rigo


They are all hyped up fights for which the ending was a foregone conclusion. Floyd-Canelo? Light-years difference in boxing skill. Canelo only got the shot because his huge fan base clamored for it, and thought they were in the same boxing stratosphere. What happened? Canelo never touched Floyd. Boring foregone conclusion. Canelo-Khan and GGG-Brook were ridiculous size differences. Both Khan and Brook foolishly decided to jump not one, but TWO weight divisions right off the bat.... no tuneups..... and take on dangerous middleweights. Foregone conclusion. Loma-Rigo? Billed super-fight by most, but ignoring the same ridiculous size difference between Loma and Rigo, who had fought his entire career at super bantam and jumped up two divisions.

A precursor to the hyped fight that probably should've never happened was Holmes-Cooney. People were hungry for the black vs. white heavyweight championship, and propped Cooney up as a worthy challenger to Holmes. Holmes took care of that without breaking a sweat. Is Cooney considered one of Holmes greatest victories? Not in every boxing circle. Yeah, it's subjective. But to many boxing pundits, Cooney had little chance and little business up in that ring with Holmes.

To the list above I could probably add Hatton-Pacquiao, Hatton-Floyd, and Floyd-Marquez. Another one was Hopkins-DLH. Oscar climbed into the ring with Hopkins, and immediately showed he didn't belong anywhere near 160.



On the other hand..... there have been some super-hyped fights that have disappointed, but not because one of the fighters didn't belong.


Floyd-Pacquiao
Tyson-Holyfield II (ear-gate)
Leonard-Duran II ("no mas")


But the pre-fight hype was totally warranted in each case.

Pre-fight hype tends to be sickening I agree. But I can tell you some fights that there was no pre-fight hype that could have ever reached the true drama of the upcoming match. Let's take Foreman vs Ali or let's take Holyfield vs Tyson or let's take something like Joshua vs. Klitschko I mean those are definitely worth every ounce of the pre-fight hype. All of those were exciting fights and deserve it. But when you think of the barrel of crap that Mayweather versus Pacquiao was or the barrel of crap that Klitschko vs Fury was at least in terms of punch output then yeah it is sickening.

the Wilder vs Fury fight though is so bizarre since both of them are so bizarre and since WILDER just seems to have almost no boxing skill at all and goes in there almost like a baseball pitcher and is off balance or on the wrong leg more than half the time and fury could seriously find an opportunity on those really ugly moments when Wilder is standing on the wrong leg or throwing a punch off the wrong foot with his hands down by his side's ....Fury could literally nail him because Fury's Fast remember Fury has incredible speed. so I think this fight is worth the pre-fight hype.

Some of the fights you mentioned the favourite won.

I thought Oscar v PAC Man and Floyd were mismatches when they were announced and were a shame to boxing and look what happened. I never thought Mosley would beat Oscar and he did.

The Oscar v Tito fight was a let down.

Thinking about it Oscar has been in a lot of hyped up fights.

Nice thread Tito, I will come back later with some other thoughts.

Did anyone mention Floyd/Mac?

Ah yes fight hype where Boxing and Wrasslin meet ;D


I think a lot of this pageantry that goes on before fights is not even trying to sell a fight but fighters trying to psych their opponents out or psych themselves up for the hard training and dedication. That said SOME fighters are 100% Show and 0% Go...David Haye comes to mind, the later career of Shannon Briggs, the later career of Bernard Hopkins the over the top shenanigans it's ridiculous, the fans ain't dumb (most of them anyway) but some fighters have their shtick and it draws in fans I don't know how or why.

Some guys see pressers and contract signings as something they just go through the motions on and they talk in the ring.


I just hate the guys who run their fucking mouths nonstop and then show up to the ring and don't deliver Peter McNeely vs Tyson was one of those guys just yak yak yak yak and then soon as he's touched by Tyson it's all over. Ridiculous


Some guys just are characters Mike Tyson's pre-fight pressers you never knew what you'd get...could be a simple interview about how he's focused and having a good camp, could be him trying to take a bite out of Lennox Lewis' leg you didn't know.


I think a lot of this gained traction in how Ali handled himself.....trouble is, not everyone is Ali and some of Ali's shit was very personal which not to say it's against the rules or off limits but as fighters you're in a brotherhood of risking life and limb to bring home a paycheck, it's bad mojo to step over certain lines.


Larry Holmes dropkicking Trevor Berbick...I'm not sure we'll see something like that again, we DAMN sure won't see this again...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghf4o5z97FY

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Nice thread Tito, I will come back later with some other thoughts.

Did anyone mention Floyd/Pac?

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Titifan mentioned it under a waste of time.

Lewis v Tyson was another pure con job as was Floyd v McGregor

I thought the Oscar/Pac fight was also going to be a mid-match, but I wasn't sure how Oscar would look after roughly 6 years away from welter.

I thought Floyd/Oscar would be an easy win for Floyd, but he struggled early until Oscar abandoned his jab.

Floyd/Pac when it happened was a mid-match for me, 5 years earlier aping 2010 would have been even going in for me.

Fights like
Ali/Frazier (the fight of the century)
Louis/Schmeling 2

Carried great well deserved hype.

Tyson/Holyfield (both fights)
Lewis/Tyson

Had great hype, but were arguably foregone conclusions heading in if we be honest with ourselves.

I admit I picked Tyson in all 3,mainly on heart than head.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Nice thread Tito, I will come back later with some other thoughts.

Did anyone mention Floyd/Pac?

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Titifan mentioned it under a waste of time.

Lewis v Tyson was another pure con job as was Floyd v McGregor

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For Lewis vs Tyson the selling point was #1 nostalgia "Ahhh old Tyson is back" and #2 "Is Mike Tyson actually nuts? and waaaaaaay down the line at #3 Well COULD Lennox handle Tyson?


For Floyd vs Mac the selling point was A#1 gimmick match....it was no different than when wrestlers do hair vs hair match, loser leaves town, lumberjack, rings on fire, "I quit" match...it was 100% a GIMMICK which is here's how the best MMA fighter would do in boxing vs the best boxer and let's all be honest here Floyd carried him, Floyd allowed McGregor success and just carried him and I am sure a few folks (In the know ;););) ) made big money on the fight lasting as long as it did. Not saying McGregor was in on the deal or is a poor fighter, but come on had Floyd at any point in time put the pedal to the metal McGregor would have been finished in a heartbeat and hell a similar thing could happen if Floyd ever did the MMA, but he's not going to because he only takes fights he has advantages in.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Nice thread Tito, I will come back later with some other thoughts.

Did anyone mention Floyd/Pac?

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Titifan mentioned it under a waste of time.

Lewis v Tyson was another pure con job as was Floyd v McGregor

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Sorry McGregor is who I was referencing.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

I thought the Oscar/Pac fight was also going to be a mid-match, but I wasn't sure how Oscar would look after roughly 6 years away from welter.

I thought Floyd/Oscar would be an easy win for Floyd, but he struggled early until Oscar abandoned his jab.

Floyd/Pac when it happened was a mid-match for me, 5 years earlier aping 2010 would have been even going in for me.

Fights like
Ali/Frazier (the fight of the century)
Louis/Schmeling 2

Carried great well deserved hype.

Tyson/Holyfield (both fights)
Lewis/Tyson

Had great hype, but were arguably foregone conclusions heading in if we be honest with ourselves.

I admit I picked Tyson in all 3,mainly on heart than head.

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You honestly telling me you thought Floyd would beat Oscar? I thought it was a gimmick. Credit to Floyd for winning when he had most of the cards stacked against him.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Alpha

I thought the Oscar/Pac fight was also going to be a mid-match, but I wasn't sure how Oscar would look after roughly 6 years away from welter.

I thought Floyd/Oscar would be an easy win for Floyd, but he struggled early until Oscar abandoned his jab.

Floyd/Pac when it happened was a mid-match for me, 5 years earlier aping 2010 would have been even going in for me.

Fights like
Ali/Frazier (the fight of the century)
Louis/Schmeling 2

Carried great well deserved hype.

Tyson/Holyfield (both fights)
Lewis/Tyson

Had great hype, but were arguably foregone conclusions heading in if we be honest with ourselves.

I admit I picked Tyson in all 3,mainly on heart than head.

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You honestly telling me you thought Floyd would beat Oscar? I thought it was a gimmick. Credit to Floyd for winning when he had most of the cards stacked against him.

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Yea I honestly did, his last great performance for me was the 2nd Mosley fight, almost 4 years prior to the Floyd fight. I thought he lost to Sturm, then Hopkins stopped him, Mayorga was a tune up, even tho they had the bogus WBC title in the line. I'm pretty sure Oscar wasn't on any P4P lists at the time and he wasn't the top guy at 154. He was also getting on at 34.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Alpha

I thought the Oscar/Pac fight was also going to be a mid-match, but I wasn't sure how Oscar would look after roughly 6 years away from welter.

I thought Floyd/Oscar would be an easy win for Floyd, but he struggled early until Oscar abandoned his jab.

Floyd/Pac when it happened was a mid-match for me, 5 years earlier aping 2010 would have been even going in for me.

Fights like
Ali/Frazier (the fight of the century)
Louis/Schmeling 2

Carried great well deserved hype.

Tyson/Holyfield (both fights)
Lewis/Tyson

Had great hype, but were arguably foregone conclusions heading in if we be honest with ourselves.

I admit I picked Tyson in all 3,mainly on heart than head.

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You honestly telling me you thought Floyd would beat Oscar? I thought it was a gimmick. Credit to Floyd for winning when he had most of the cards stacked against him.

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Yea I honestly did, his last great performance for me was the 2nd Mosley fight, almost 4 years prior to the Floyd fight. I thought he lost to Sturm, then Hopkins stopped him, Mayorga was a tune up, even tho they had the bogus WBC title in the line. I'm pretty sure Oscar wasn't on any P4P lists at the time and he wasn't the top guy at 154. He was also getting on at 34.

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Fair enough but Floyd was going up a weight and I thought he was taking the cash.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Alpha

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Alpha

I thought the Oscar/Pac fight was also going to be a mid-match, but I wasn't sure how Oscar would look after roughly 6 years away from welter.

I thought Floyd/Oscar would be an easy win for Floyd, but he struggled early until Oscar abandoned his jab.

Floyd/Pac when it happened was a mid-match for me, 5 years earlier aping 2010 would have been even going in for me.

Fights like
Ali/Frazier (the fight of the century)
Louis/Schmeling 2

Carried great well deserved hype.

Tyson/Holyfield (both fights)
Lewis/Tyson

Had great hype, but were arguably foregone conclusions heading in if we be honest with ourselves.

I admit I picked Tyson in all 3,mainly on heart than head.

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You honestly telling me you thought Floyd would beat Oscar? I thought it was a gimmick. Credit to Floyd for winning when he had most of the cards stacked against him.

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Yea I honestly did, his last great performance for me was the 2nd Mosley fight, almost 4 years prior to the Floyd fight. I thought he lost to Sturm, then Hopkins stopped him, Mayorga was a tune up, even tho they had the bogus WBC title in the line. I'm pretty sure Oscar wasn't on any P4P lists at the time and he wasn't the top guy at 154. He was also getting on at 34.

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Fair enough but Floyd was going up a weight and I thought he was taking the cash.

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No doubt it was a huge money earner, they just seemed on different trajectories at that point for me. I was more surprise with how much he struggled.

Oscar was old and that is why he could not sustain the jab for 12 rounds. Roach used that inside knowledge for his own fighter later on.

As much as I dislike the red headed beef eater cheater I didn't think it was a total forgone conclusion in the early hype stage and talk about it. It wasn't until the Trout finish that it became clear he didn't have a proper approach. He thought he was a pick your spots boxer instead of jumping Trout late. Became clear as day Floyd was going to clown him but in the back of my mind I hoped Canelo would land a brick.

Hype and build has gone from promotion centered and main media sources to massive and constant self promotion by the fighters themselves via every form of social media available. Point, click talk smack and the fans start carrying and discussing potentials. Networks do solid promotion but I miss the old hbo or showtime face offs with satellite live feeds and two guys just going on ;D. Tyson and Ruddock comes to mind right off. Hbo doesn't even do full 24-7s now which were pretty good. I'll give it to PBC they really keep the ball rolling with potential and future matches in house. They rotate on air announce with active fighters and always have others on hand, in the crowd and grabbing a mic. Today hype is almost to easy compared to guys way back in the day doing the complete talk show circuits and radio programs.

Random one for whatever reasons..Moorer v Holyfield was a rough build. Frankly both have the 'pop' and demeanors of distracted Wal Mart greeters at times. I remember Moorer dressing up like G.I Joe complete with black beret and that surly attitude talking about going to war etc. He stood at some obvious set piece decked out in full camo and 'pounded' his fist until the little podium collapsed and acted surprised ;D. It was total 'wraslin 101. Press people start laughing and Holyfield nearly falls out of his chair rolling.."Well I'm glad I'm not a podium".

Spicoli, that reminds me of Roy Jones v Trinidad hype which was bad and they used the military for that too.

A fight way past its sell by date.

Can I just add one thing I just thought about:

Selling tickets to weigh ins, and huge crowds turning out to them, or press conferences is definitely a sign of huge hype for a fight.

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Originally Posted by Master

Spicoli, that reminds me of Roy Jones v Trinidad hype which was bad and they used the military for that too.

A fight way past its sell by date.

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Now that you mention Trinidad, you jogged my memory.

Remember the Tito/ Hopkins presser in PR, when Hopkins threw the flag on the ground. That sh-t was intense. Real hype for that one.

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Originally Posted by Master

Spicoli, that reminds me of Roy Jones v Trinidad hype which was bad and they used the military for that too.

A fight way past its sell by date.

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Yeh that was bad. Not sure how that fight even made it to the store shelf. Not as bad as Roy in that massive wig with the pirate costume though ;D. Roy was definitely on top of self promotion.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

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Originally Posted by Master

Spicoli, that reminds me of Roy Jones v Trinidad hype which was bad and they used the military for that too.

A fight way past its sell by date.

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Now that you mention Trinidad, you jogged my memory.

Remember the Tito/ Hopkins presser in PR, when Hopkins threw the flag on the ground. That sh-t was intense. Real hype for that one.

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It certainly got MY blood boiling back then. ;D

Fans with an emotional type of backing of a fighter can get sucked in by promotional stuff like that.

Good discussion and examples. ;D

Just want to add though..... in the past we've had threads on super-hyped fights that disappointed, or met/exceeded expectations....... and fights not very much hyped which turned out to be super fights.

But this thread actually adds another variant..... the fights whose pre-fight hype was unwarranted because everyone should've known it wasn't going to be competitive, be it due to huge size difference, or huge difference in skill set.

A warranted super-hyped fight that ends up disappointing is not the fans or the matchmaker's fault. The hype was warranted because it was competitive on paper.

Whereas an unwarranted super-hyped fight that hardcore fans know won't be competitive has a little more blame to go around.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Hbo doesn't even do full 24-7s now which were pretty good.

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They seem to have made an exception for Ginger. ;)

Although it wasn't boxing the Muhammad Ali vs. Antonio Inoki event was hyped around the world at the time.

Jack Johnson vs James J. Jeffries was hugest the time. With Jeffries being out for nearly 6 years it was pure hype for a great white hope.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Jack Johnson vs James J. Jeffries was hugest the time. With Jeffries being out for nearly 6 years it was pure hype for a great white hope.

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There was a fair share of that throughout the history of heavyweight boxing, which could probably fill a thread of its own. That's a good example, as is the Holmes-Cooney fight. I think the U.S. always craved a white heavyweight champion, and was quick to jump the bandwagon of anyone coming remotely close to filling that void. Ironically, the time a white man dominated the heavyweight scene for a while in recent times, it was a Ukrainian behemoth.

oh yeah Larry Holmes and Gerry Cooney man you talk about height that was big time hike that was high tension that almost ledt the race riots in some cities

I think Oscar-Pac more than lived up to the hype. Oscar was the favourite, when the fight was first bandied about the general feeling was a mismatch, I was amongst the majority who thought Pac was simply too small, but it was the sheer electric performance Pac produced which was amazing, flawless and vicious, he reduced an all-time great to a whimpering soul who needed resucing.

Also fights like Leonard-Hearns II, sneered at by all the "expert" fossils at the time because they were "old" men, and tainted by a "robbery" decision, turned out a great fight. I dare anyone to watch that fight today and tell me those two guys couldn't more than hold their own with today's middleweights.

Benn-Eubank 1 hype was more than warranted, the 2nd meeting not so.

Gman-Benn surpassed the hype.

In recent years Wlad-AJ surpassed the hype too, although no harsh words between the two the hype was huge in Britain, the weigh-in had more people than most fighters get at actual fights, and no-one expected an up-and-down epic.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Hbo doesn't even do full 24-7s now which were pretty good.

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They seem to have made an exception for Ginger. ;)

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First time I watched 24/7 was for Pac Man v Margarito and just fell into the hype. I really thought Antonio was going to be too big and strong for the smaller Manny. The fight lived up to the hype and it was a masterclass destruction job by Manny although in the middle of the fight Margarito lands a vicious body shot that nearly split Pac Man in two pieces. I think Manny decided never to venture up to that weight again.

Watching 24/7 now you can read between the lines and see the hype not from what is said but from what is not shown. A lot of Floyd's was on other things outside of the fight.

Here in the UK there can not have been many more more disappointing fights than Cleverly/ Bellew. Boxer against alleged Puncher. Intense enmity. Damp Squib.


Personally I was hugely disappointed in Quigg/Frampton. Even though I was rooting for Quigg I thought that the only way for Frampton to pull it off would have been by spectacular stoppage but even he turned in quite a routine dull performance (well breaking Quiggs jaw early on I suppose is quite impressive).

Under Hyped billed as "Bombs Away" Jackson vs McCellan. Intro they showed bombs dropping from planes. Couldn't have been more true to an arena that wasn't half full.
Bowe vs Gonzalez. Two Big Men And Jorge trash talked up a good fight. Didn't put one up though.

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Originally Posted by TAPugil

Under Hyped billed as "Bombs Away" Jackson vs McCellan. Intro they showed bombs dropping from planes. Couldn't have been more true to an arena that wasn't half full.
Bowe vs Gonzalez. Two Big Men And Jorge trash talked up a good fight. Didn't put one up though.

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I always craved Bowe vs Tyson or Bowe vs Shannon Briggs, or Tyson vs Shannon Briggs all guys are from the same neighborhood, they all have different personalities, they all could punch, and they all could take a shot pretty good....the timing for those fights never worked out, but MAN you talk about a GREAT Madison Square Garden fight environment, just an old fashioned neighborhood brawl to be....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOjC2n2VVtY


Oh any of those would have been lovely even if no title at all was on the line....and I think that clinches it for me, when a fight is about something more than a belt, if it's personal, if PRIDE is the biggest thing on the table that's what TRUE rivalries are built on and you can go back in history and point those out Ali-Frazier...who fucking cares about a title it's fuckin Ali-Frazier....Louis-Schmelling II WHAT?!?!?! The WORLD needed to be shown who was the best title shmitle there was more to it than that. Leonard-Duran....Ray Leonard "i want to thank Roberto for giving me this opportunity to have this fight"...Duran :mad: *spits at Ray* insults Ray's wife....that's not theatrics or it didn't friggin seem like it it felt real.