Forum voted divisional rankings 20 September 2018

20 September 2018

HEAVYWEIGHT:
1. Anthony Joshua
2. Deontay Wilder
3. Dillian Whyte
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. Luis Ortiz

CRUISERWEIGHT:
1. Oleksandr Usyk
2. Mairis Briedis
3. Krzysztof Glowacki
4. Murat Gassiev
5. Yunier Dorticos

LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT:
1. Dmitry Bivol
2. Eleider Alvarez
3. Artur Beterbiev
4. Oleksandr Gvozdyk
5. Adonis Stevenson

SUPER-MIDDLEWEIGHT:
1. George Groves
2. Gilberto Ramirez
3. David Benavidez
4. Jose Uzcategui
5. Callum Smith

MIDDLEWEIGHT:
1. Gennady Golovkin
2. Canelo Alvarez
3. Billy Joe Saunders
4. Danny Jacobs
5. Jermall Charlo

SUPER-WELTERWEIGHT:
1. Jarrett Hurd
2. Erislandy Lara
3. Jermell Charlo
4. Jamie Munguia
5. Kell Brook

WELTERWEIGHT:
1. Errol Spence Jr
2. Terence Crawford
3. Shawn Porter
4. Danny Garcia
5. Manny Pacquiao

SUPER-LIGHTWEIGHT:
1. Regis Prograis
2. Josh Taylor
3. Kiryl Relikh
4. Jose Carlos Ramirez
5. Viktor Postol

LIGHTWEIGHT:
1. Mikey Garcia
2. Vasyl Lomachenko
3. Jorge Linares
4. Jose Pedraza
5. Robert Easter Jr

SUPER-FEATHERWEIGHT:
1. Miguel Berchelt
2. Gervonta Davis
3. Alberto Machado
4. Francisco Vargas
5. Miguel Roman

FEATHERWEIGHT:
1. Leo Santa Cruz
2. Carl Frampton
3. Gary Russell Jr.
4. Oscar Valdez
5. Josh Warrington

SUPER-BANTAMWEIGHT:
1. Isaac Dogboe
2. Rey Vargas
3. Daniel Roman
4. Jessie Magdaleno
5. TJ Doheny

BANTAMWEIGHT:
1. Naoya Inoue
2. Zolani Tete
3. Ryan Burnett
4. Juan Carlos Payano
5. E. Rodriguez

SUPER-FLYWEIGHT:
1. Wisaksil Wangek
2. Juan Francisco Estrada
3. Roman Gonzalez
4. Kazuto Ioka
5. Jerwin Ancajas

FLYWEIGHT:
1. Artem Dalakian
2. Moruti Mthalane
3. Andrew Selby
4. Cristofer Rosales
5. Sho Kimura

LIGHT-FLYWEIGHT:
1. Hekkie Budler
2. Milan Melindo
3. Ryoichi Taguchi
4. Ken Shiro
5. Angel Acosta

MINIMUMWEIGHT:
1. Thammanoon Niyomtrong
2. Chayaphon Moonsri
3. Hiroto Kyoguchi
4. Simphiwe Khonco
5. Vic Saludar

I don't really follow the little guy divisions but from Bantam upwards that list is pretty much bang on.

Nice. How often are we updating the list?

Good list. Some places it leans towards accomplishment, some places it leans towards ability.

My only complaint would probably be Canelo. But even that you can say “the judges said...”. Just, my thinking is Charlo, Jacobs and Saunders would probably all beat him so what gets his rating, only the judges decisions? It’s not REALLY accomplishment or ability. Unless he still has more than we’ve seen. Which is possible

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Good list. Some places it leans towards accomplishment, some places it leans towards ability.

My only complaint would probably be Canelo. But even that you can say “the judges said...”. Just, my thinking is Charlo, Jacobs and Saunders would probably all beat him so what gets his rating, only the judges decisions? It’s not REALLY accomplishment or ability. Unless he still has more than we’ve seen. Which is possible

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I think the same thing. Everyone votes in their own way so it’s tough to evaluate it perfectly, but it seems like a solid list either way.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

Nice. How often are we updating the list?

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I was initially thinking monthly, but not much may have happened. Maybe every 3 months or so? Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Good list. Some places it leans towards accomplishment, some places it leans towards ability.

My only complaint would probably be Canelo. But even that you can say “the judges said...”. Just, my thinking is Charlo, Jacobs and Saunders would probably all beat him so what gets his rating, only the judges decisions? It’s not REALLY accomplishment or ability. Unless he still has more than we’ve seen. Which is possible

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To be fair, he just fought a very close fight (some feel he won) with a guy most of us would included among the P4P and more than likely a 1st ballot HOFer. Personally I feel he is at least 50/50 with those 3 you mentioned. Some credit has to be given to his improvement and ability. Then you could also argue that he has officially won the lineal title, as well as multiple belts in the division. Some decent accomplishments.

Hold on wait, stop making defend Canelo ;D

Hope to see your votes on the next one.

Some surprises for me:

Whyte taking the 3rd spot at heavy.

Stevenson didn't make the top 5 at 175.

How highly folks consider Davis.

A few key divisions (in my opinion) didn't receive many votes.

More votes next time please guys.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Some surprises for me:

Whyte taking the 3rd spot at heavy.

Stevenson didn't make the top 5 at 175.

How highly folks consider Davis.

A few key divisions (in my opinion) didn't receive many votes.

More votes next time please guys.

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I think Davis falls under the ability platform because if he got his head out of his arse he would be the best there.

Whyte I think comes in under the Tyson has been out qualification. Although I would pick Ortiz with quite a confident feeling, it’s not my vote and it’s not out of line

Interesting thing about Stevenson is no him and no Jack even though Jack had demonstrated he was best at 168, you’d think that would carry some clout. But again, not out of line considering Stevenson’s age and Jack just arrived on the scene. Maybe people think that fight was close because of Stevenson slipping rather than Jack’s quality. It’s possible.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

Nice. How often are we updating the list?

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I was initially thinking monthly, but not much may have happened. Maybe every 3 months or so? Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Good list. Some places it leans towards accomplishment, some places it leans towards ability.

My only complaint would probably be Canelo. But even that you can say “the judges said...”. Just, my thinking is Charlo, Jacobs and Saunders would probably all beat him so what gets his rating, only the judges decisions? It’s not REALLY accomplishment or ability. Unless he still has more than we’ve seen. Which is possible

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To be fair, he just fought a very close fight (some feel he won) with a guy most of us would included among the P4P and more than likely a 1st ballot HOFer. Personally I feel he is at least 50/50 with those 3 you mentioned. Some credit has to be given to his improvement and ability. Then you could also argue that he has officially won the lineal title, as well as multiple belts in the division. Some decent accomplishments.

Hold on wait, stop making defend Canelo ;D

Hope to see your votes on the next one.

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I watched the Jacobs fight again today and having done so I feel confident saying Jacobs fought a completely different fighter.(still think Jacobs clearly won) GGG was far more explosive. It could be that GGG is just faster and more coordinated going forward but I think there is more going on.

Keep saying it, uncomfortable saying it every time I do, I really think Charlo may be the best MW in the world right now. The length, speed, power in both hands. I said GGG was the best before he was a champion so I should be more comfortable saying Charlo might be. But there is this doubt “what about when he meets resistance?”

You could be right about Charlo, although for me he seems currently stuck in limbo. Needs to start fighting some decent guys. Getting left out in the cold at the moment.

Great list... and good idea you had, Alpha. Way overdue. I'd list the top five would be my only comment. We voted for 5, so it would be nice to see the top 5. Updating it every 2-3 months sounds about right.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Some surprises for me:

Whyte taking the 3rd spot at heavy.

Stevenson didn't make the top 5 at 175.

How highly folks consider Davis.

A few key divisions (in my opinion) didn't receive many votes.

More votes next time please guys.

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I think Davis falls under the ability platform because if he got his head out of his arse he would be the best there.

Whyte I think comes in under the Tyson has been out qualification. Although I would pick Ortiz with quite a confident feeling, it’s not my vote and it’s not out of line

Interesting thing about Stevenson is no him and no Jack even though Jack had demonstrated he was best at 168, you’d think that would carry some clout. But again, not out of line considering Stevenson’s age and Jack just arrived on the scene. Maybe people think that fight was close because of Stevenson slipping rather than Jack’s quality. It’s possible.

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Davis to me has proven to be the top 130 pounder because that division isn’t great. Berchelt is the only guy who you could put ahead of him.

It’s not that I think that Stevenson is awful, but LHW is a really good division at the moment. Jack is a good fighter but not great. I don’t see Jack beating the Russians and Ukrainians.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Great list... and good idea you had, Alpha. Way overdue. I'd list the top five would be my only comment. We voted for 5, so it would be nice to see the top 5. Updating it every 2-3 months sounds about right.

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We can do top 5 if everyone wants, I just thought taking the top 3 trims the fat from the lamb and gives us the cream of the crop ;D

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Some surprises for me:

Whyte taking the 3rd spot at heavy.

Stevenson didn't make the top 5 at 175.

How highly folks consider Davis.

A few key divisions (in my opinion) didn't receive many votes.

More votes next time please guys.

---

I think Davis falls under the ability platform because if he got his head out of his arse he would be the best there.

Whyte I think comes in under the Tyson has been out qualification. Although I would pick Ortiz with quite a confident feeling, it’s not my vote and it’s not out of line

Interesting thing about Stevenson is no him and no Jack even though Jack had demonstrated he was best at 168, you’d think that would carry some clout. But again, not out of line considering Stevenson’s age and Jack just arrived on the scene. Maybe people think that fight was close because of Stevenson slipping rather than Jack’s quality. It’s possible.

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Davis to me has proven to be the top 130 pounder because that division isn’t great. Berchelt is the only guy who you could put ahead of him.

It’s not that I think that Stevenson is awful, but LHW is a really good division at the moment. Jack is a good fighter but not great. I don’t see Jack beating the Russians and Ukrainians.

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I still not totally sold on Davis, don't get me wrong he's an excellent talent, how he broke Pedraza down was superb. It's more the outside the right influences that he is teetering on that concern me. Berchelt does have that blemish on his record but he is now an improved fighter. Machado showed against Corrales that he belongs, and now Ito bangs his way into the mix. Add to that Farmer a there's the beginnings of a decent 130 pound WBSS tourney.

I would have Rosales in at flyweight, even with a loss to Selby, and Nery throws a spanner in at bantam.

And Loma should be above Mikey at 135.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I would have Rosales in at flyweight, even with a loss to Selby, and Nery throws a spanner in at bantam.

And Loma should be above Mikey at 135.

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Would have loved to have got your votes on flyweight and bantam.

Selby beat Rosales clear, it was a closer fight than the scorecards suggest and Rosales put Selby down in the 1st, but Selby won. Rosales has that quality win over Higa, but again, Higa was struggling to make weight for that fight. I've got to have Selby ahead at this stage, he has been inactive tho.

Nery at bantam is interesting, he might be back next time.

Only 1 of the 4 (yourself) that voted on 135 had Loma ahead.

Good stuff bud. I missed a number of the votes but might have Taylor over Prograis. 140 is about to have a ton of shake up though and should be very good. As much as we may say it through clenched teeth Canelo holds a win :-X over Golovkin and showed he can adjust a bit. Had it been an out right robbery to majority I can see an asterisk "win" and second place but just me. And he's still a spoiled cheat ;D. On potential and ability Charlo for me takes them all but you have to have those miles logged win or lose and so far at 160 he's demolished a one legged fighter who shouldn't have been in there and beat up a showcase opponent. Have you considered a top 5? Might round it off a bit with just misses like Ortiz or Stevenson. Awesome work Alpha.

Class Idea Alpha. Thanks for putting the work in. Makes a big difference to the forum. Sorry I missed the first vote thread but will be sure to vote in the next one.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Good stuff bud. I missed a number of the votes but might have Taylor over Prograis. 140 is about to have a ton of shake up though and should be very good. As much as we may say it through clenched teeth Canelo holds a win :-X over Golovkin and showed he can adjust a bit. Had it been an out right robbery to majority I can see an asterisk "win" and second place but just me. And he's still a spoiled cheat ;D. On potential and ability Charlo for me takes them all but you have to have those miles logged win or lose and so far at 160 he's demolished a one legged fighter who shouldn't have been in there and beat up a showcase opponent. Have you considered a top 5? Might round it off a bit with just misses like Ortiz or Stevenson. Awesome work Alpha.

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Appreciate the votes you did make. Next time, the more the better.

It has been interesting to see how others see the divisions.

I have extended the rankings to top 5, as there have been a couple of requests.

I also discovered that I had made an error in calculations for Light-heavy. The correct 175 rankings are now updated.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Class Idea Alpha. Thanks for putting the work in. Makes a big difference to the forum. Sorry I missed the first vote thread but will be sure to vote in the next one.

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Cheers Beanz, look forward to your votes on the next one. I'm might even collect top 5 P4P votes in the next one.

LIGHTWEIGHT:
1. Mikey Garcia
2. Vasyl Lomachenko
3. Jorge Linares
4. Jose Pedraza
5. Robert Easter Jr

Luke Campbell should be no.4 (5 minimum). Mendy (I had no.5 before this weekend), Perez and a close loss to Linares (SD) is better than anything Pedraza or Easter Jr has done.

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

LIGHTWEIGHT:
1. Mikey Garcia
2. Vasyl Lomachenko
3. Jorge Linares
4. Jose Pedraza
5. Robert Easter Jr

Luke Campbell should be no.4 (5 minimum). Mendy (I had no.5 before this weekend), Perez and a close loss to Linares (SD) is better than anything Pedraza or Easter Jr has done.

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Please vote on the next rankings, as the more votes can help shape the rankings. Of the 4 voters who ranked 135, Campbell didn't receive a single vote.

You could make the argument for Campbell as high as 4th.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

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I like his activity, he is looking to fight again in Dec, which would be his 6th fight of the year. I'm surprised Brook made 5th over Castano and Trout.



#1 heavyweight Anthony Joshua records a KO victory over our #4 rated heavyweight Alexander Povetkin.

Unranked Kosei Tanaka records a points victory over our #5 flyweight Sho Kimura.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

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Love his approach and volume. Much to work on still with more defensive holes than a pasta strainer but has held up early. Theory is he already has a title so he can't go backwards in comp but fight with Cook was a sanctioned street mugging. Definitely have him behind..Hurd Charlo and Lara in that order.

5 spot is where rankings can get tricky. I'll go Trout over a Brook. Trout has 9 lives and has taken some punishment late but that 154 competition. But it's catching up. Brook has the skill and push but as far as official division has work to do.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

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Love his approach and volume. Much to work on still with more defensive holes than a pasta strainer but has held up early. Theory is he already has a title so he can't go backwards in comp but fight with Cook was a sanctioned street mugging. Definitely have him behind..Hurd Charlo and Lara in that order.

5 spot is where rankings can get tricky. I'll go Trout over a Brook. Trout has 9 lives and has taken some punishment late but that 154 competition. But it's catching up. Brook has the skill and push but as far as official division has work to do.

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I don’t see Munguia beating Trout. Trout has fought both Charlos, Lara, and Hurd. Lara beat him pretty good but the others he gave them some trouble. I think he would be too crafty for such a raw talent like Munguia. Same with Brook. I don’t see Brook losing to Munguia at this point. Obviously he is young and can improve, but I just don’t think he is there yet.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

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Love his approach and volume. Much to work on still with more defensive holes than a pasta strainer but has held up early. Theory is he already has a title so he can't go backwards in comp but fight with Cook was a sanctioned street mugging. Definitely have him behind..Hurd Charlo and Lara in that order.

5 spot is where rankings can get tricky. I'll go Trout over a Brook. Trout has 9 lives and has taken some punishment late but that 154 competition. But it's catching up. Brook has the skill and push but as far as official division has work to do.

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I don’t see Munguia beating Trout. Trout has fought both Charlos, Lara, and Hurd. Lara beat him pretty good but the others he gave them some trouble. I think he would be too crafty for such a raw talent like Munguia. Same with Brook. I don’t see Brook losing to Munguia at this point. Obviously he is young and can improve, but I just don’t think he is there yet.

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Yeh you're right Trout has that verified depth. The man has ring guile and acts the professional. But I think Munguia is pushing middleweight and all comes down to physicality and output would again wear Trout down. I'd love to see how Munguia dealt with those quick trap counters Trout brings early. I like Brook full of skill but feel like he needs to plot smartly going forward. Going from Golovkin to Spence was a bit nuts and the same injuries linger.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

---

Love his approach and volume. Much to work on still with more defensive holes than a pasta strainer but has held up early. Theory is he already has a title so he can't go backwards in comp but fight with Cook was a sanctioned street mugging. Definitely have him behind..Hurd Charlo and Lara in that order.

5 spot is where rankings can get tricky. I'll go Trout over a Brook. Trout has 9 lives and has taken some punishment late but that 154 competition. But it's catching up. Brook has the skill and push but as far as official division has work to do.

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I don’t see Munguia beating Trout. Trout has fought both Charlos, Lara, and Hurd. Lara beat him pretty good but the others he gave them some trouble. I think he would be too crafty for such a raw talent like Munguia. Same with Brook. I don’t see Brook losing to Munguia at this point. Obviously he is young and can improve, but I just don’t think he is there yet.

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Yeh you're right Trout has that verified depth. The man has ring guile and acts the professional. But I think Munguia is pushing middleweight and all comes down to physicality and output would again wear Trout down. I'd love to see how Munguia dealt with those quick trap counters Trout brings early. I like Brook full of skill but feel like he needs to plot smartly going forward. Going from Golovkin to Spence was a bit nuts and the same injuries linger.

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Personally I see Castano beating them both. He don't seem to get a lot of love here yet. But wait, it's coming. Trout has the experience in top opposition but is on the other side of the slope at this stage. I think Castano can pick Munguia apart.

Brook has no place above these 3 at 154 for me.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

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Love his approach and volume. Much to work on still with more defensive holes than a pasta strainer but has held up early. Theory is he already has a title so he can't go backwards in comp but fight with Cook was a sanctioned street mugging. Definitely have him behind..Hurd Charlo and Lara in that order.

5 spot is where rankings can get tricky. I'll go Trout over a Brook. Trout has 9 lives and has taken some punishment late but that 154 competition. But it's catching up. Brook has the skill and push but as far as official division has work to do.

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I don’t see Munguia beating Trout. Trout has fought both Charlos, Lara, and Hurd. Lara beat him pretty good but the others he gave them some trouble. I think he would be too crafty for such a raw talent like Munguia. Same with Brook. I don’t see Brook losing to Munguia at this point. Obviously he is young and can improve, but I just don’t think he is there yet.

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Yeh you're right Trout has that verified depth. The man has ring guile and acts the professional. But I think Munguia is pushing middleweight and all comes down to physicality and output would again wear Trout down. I'd love to see how Munguia dealt with those quick trap counters Trout brings early. I like Brook full of skill but feel like he needs to plot smartly going forward. Going from Golovkin to Spence was a bit nuts and the same injuries linger.

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Personally I see Castano beating them both. He don't seem to get a lot of love here yet. But wait, it's coming. Trout has the experience in top opposition but is on the other side of the slope at this stage. I think Castano can pick Munguia apart.

Brook has no place above these 3 at 154 for me.

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Now thats one who needs to come back to the States with his new strap. Yeh I can't see Trout afforded the distance or time with that buzzsaw at this stage but from what I've seen Castano can also sit right in front of a guy counting on a high guard. Great hand speed and punch mix though. At first glance he looks a bit undersized for 154 and not sure why. Need to see more of him now at high caliber.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Alpha

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

People are very high on Munguia. I just don’t think he’s that good. He is a tough Mexican fighter but IMO he isn’t good enough to be ranked #4 at the moment.

---

Love his approach and volume. Much to work on still with more defensive holes than a pasta strainer but has held up early. Theory is he already has a title so he can't go backwards in comp but fight with Cook was a sanctioned street mugging. Definitely have him behind..Hurd Charlo and Lara in that order.

5 spot is where rankings can get tricky. I'll go Trout over a Brook. Trout has 9 lives and has taken some punishment late but that 154 competition. But it's catching up. Brook has the skill and push but as far as official division has work to do.

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I don’t see Munguia beating Trout. Trout has fought both Charlos, Lara, and Hurd. Lara beat him pretty good but the others he gave them some trouble. I think he would be too crafty for such a raw talent like Munguia. Same with Brook. I don’t see Brook losing to Munguia at this point. Obviously he is young and can improve, but I just don’t think he is there yet.

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Yeh you're right Trout has that verified depth. The man has ring guile and acts the professional. But I think Munguia is pushing middleweight and all comes down to physicality and output would again wear Trout down. I'd love to see how Munguia dealt with those quick trap counters Trout brings early. I like Brook full of skill but feel like he needs to plot smartly going forward. Going from Golovkin to Spence was a bit nuts and the same injuries linger.

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Personally I see Castano beating them both. He don't seem to get a lot of love here yet. But wait, it's coming. Trout has the experience in top opposition but is on the other side of the slope at this stage. I think Castano can pick Munguia apart.

Brook has no place above these 3 at 154 for me.

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Now thats one who needs to come back to the States with his new strap. Yeh I can't see Trout afforded the distance or time with that buzzsaw at this stage but from what I've seen Castano can also sit right in front of a guy counting on a high guard. Great hand speed and punch mix though. At first glance he looks a bit undersized for 154 and not sure why. Need to see more of him now at high caliber.

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Yea he needs to work on getting off-line after throwing his shots and tighten that defense, definitely still work to do, but lots to work with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVOoNiff-n0

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

might have Taylor over Prograis.

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Just wanted to touch on this as well. I have Prograis ove Taylor currently, although I feel Taylor has the perfect style to defeat Prograis, but that is not an easy fight for either guy.

I wanted to give Prograis a little props, I was going to start a thread on it, but I'll post it here instead.

A lot of the things Prograis does (especially on offense) is highly underrated, as is the case with many outstanding fighters today. Fans should be focusing on fighters and fights.

Although Prograis keeps his hands low, if you watch him when he is coming forward, his head movement is fantastic. He is always keeping that head of the line, with faints, pivots, changing levels etc. Top quality stuff.

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#5 Super-middleweight Callum Smith records a KO victory over our #1 rated Super-middleweight Georges Groves.

7-Oct-18

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LIGHT-FLYWEIGHT:
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#1 Bantamweight Naoya Inoue records a KO victory over our #4 rated Bantamweight Juan Carlos Payano.

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