Fury and Parker are the best names on his record.
Malik Scott is an awful trainer and it seems as though now the fight has left Wilders soul.
How would you rate his resume and what does he do next..
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Fury and Parker are the best names on his record.
Malik Scott is an awful trainer and it seems as though now the fight has left Wilders soul.
How would you rate his resume and what does he do next..
Because he lost one fight? A fight to a former champion, who is younger than him? Give us a break, man. Anything to discredit Wilder so he doesn't have to fight AJ... for fear AJ may go to sleep. lolol....Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
I think his resume is alright to be fair. The man can't fight. Or rather the man can't box. I'm hearing a lot of experts recently talk about how he hasn't been taught how to box and how he's some how been failed. That's horse shit. He's been taught, he's been shown. His problem is that once he gets in the ring it all goes out the window. The one time he stuck to an alternate game plan (Fury 3), he blew up in a few rounds as his tiny mind couldn't compute all the new information for very long.
For someone that can't box, that has traded off one weapon his entire career, he's done alright. We can all cut or cloth to suit when it comes to resumes. Paint the prettiest or ugliest picture dependent on our obligations. The Parker loss is damaging. As nice a bloke as he is, and as nice a story it is for Parker to have this success so late in his career, I think now that he's propelled himself into another big fight, we'll soon see that Parker is just as done as he was when he got mauled by Joyce. Dependent on who he goes in with next of course, but Wilder did a great job of making Parker look good.
The three failed bites at Fury are a blot for sure. But like him or not Fury is elite.
Everyone else, Wilder has chinned. His one weapon in his arsenal was too much for a who's who of contenders. People scoff at his 'best' wins over Ortiz. People get all Coming to America "Ortiz was a 187 years old!" and can't wait to tell you how Ortiz was winning up until getting chinned. Like it matters. At the time, I don't remember people forming an orderly queue to share a ring with Ortiz. He was firmly at the head of the who needs him club and Wilder took care of business, twice. He deserves credit for that.
A tough man with lots of heart and a cannon of a right hand. A world champion with ten title defences. He did alright.
I think he disappears now. He'll say all the right things about coming back, but the bottom line is I just don't think he wants to. A passive Anthony Joshua was a big problem, but he managed to win in other ways. A passive Deontay Wilder is terminal. If he's not going to let the right hand go with any conviction or regularity, he might as well walk away.
We all do 180's on some fighters at some point. My point was the Parker fight with Wilder.
I was one of the loud voices saying Wilder had better than a 50/50 chance against AJ. Their respective performances a few days ago quieted me for sure. AJ impressively knocked out a very good boxer in Otto Wallin... while Wilder looked like a deer in headlights against Parker. Granted, Parker is a great boxer. But still, man...
I guess the trilogy with Fury took all the fight out of Wilder. I still feel the pre-Fury Wilder had a great chance to put Joshua's lights out. But now? Not a chance.
Another thing. We're all used to seeing different body types at heavyweight. From the chiseled Joshua-types, to the blubbery Fury. But Wilder? How the hell does he get around on those toothpicks for legs? It's been said here and many times before. Too much focus on the upper body, and not enough squats. Those spindly legs betray him every time he gets in trouble. His legs are incapable of enabling him to perform the footwork that would do him a world of good during tough fights. Can you imagine Wilder trying to bounce around on those things for 12 rounds? Daniel Dubois, to his everlasting credit, called upon his legs to get out of the way of the lumbering Miller during their own fight. Dubois is a pretty good sized heavyweight. Yet he could use his legs when called upon. Can you imagine Wilder bouncing around like that? I don't think so.
Wilder's equalizer was that howitzer of a right hand, coupled with his belief that he could erase anybody at any time. Now even his psyche is gone.
If he still wants to climb to the top, he needs to start from scratch. Bear down... get a trainer that can help him (and LISTEN TO HIM)... put in the legwork (literally)... lose the celebrity lifestyle... and set your sights on your goal.
If not, then yes... just walk away.
The sheer beating physically and mentally he took from Fury 3 was CLEAR AS DAY he would have very little left for future fights. Helenius ran straight into a blindly and luckily thrown right hand. So prolly Wilder's last hurrah, like a hobbling old Babe Ruth hitting 3 homers in his last game...
Fury sapped all Wilder's skinny frame had in it. The beating was sustained and epic. His will to fight was beaten out of him. Sad fact of boxing.
Resume? Not all his fault. Joshua didn't want shit to do with him, as wilder would have killed him pre-Fury 3.
Now it's still 50/50.
Wilders attitude to the loss by Parker was more worrying. He was content and glad to pick up the huge pay cheque. Wilder will fight on but realistically he is not the force he was defending his title before he met Fury.
Wilder v top USA fighters would be interesting handing over the torch to the younger boxers.
Master you raise really good points. It was weird and worrisome how glibly, lightly, "gracefully" (to play devil's advocate I actually was impressed with how gracefully he accepted the loss and how he calmly admitted it although he did stick in a little Barb at the end saying that he thought he had won!) And his personality as mellowed quite a bit and it must be an extension of his fighting style as well or just his enthusiasm whatever remains.
Some people still struggling to see through Wilder’s career and still blaming AJ for the fight not happening.
In all Wilder’s 40 odd fights , I have only ever seen 1 piece of technically good boxing!
Against Brezeale when he KO’d him in the 1st round, he threw a text book “Jab, straight Right” combo that was perfect!
It has to be said , Brezeale was in no shape whatsoever, but I don’t want to totally take it away from Wilder.
As for the rest of his career, his best fighters on his resume are:
Fury - Lost 3 times. (Yep, you read right.)
Parker - Lost every round
Ortiz - good boxer, but 40 years old, yet he won every round before getting KO’d out of sheer tiredness.
As for Malik Scott, well he was an average fighter with a padded career, he’s an average/below average trainer at that level, BUT……………………He is shagging Kate Abdo , so he is fucking winning in life! Jammy fucker.
Mind blowing delusional stuff...and not just from Wilder. Fury really is nothing like as good as he has convinced so many people, (including himself) that he is and Wilders trilogy with the dosser is now quite clearly not so impressive after all.
It is a shocking resume and while Fury's is better it is still full of satsumas. The weird irrational anti Joshua stuff is odd because from a neutral standpoint his resume is clearly better and has never avoided anyone.
Fury's trilogy with Wilder is one long duck in itself.
I'm no fury fan these days but up to to 18 months he's the only one backed up everything he's said. If he wins in February he'll have underlined the era.
Regardless of how wilder looked Saturday wilder was dangerous when fury took him on and he was well out of shape for first fight. That version of wilder would have sparked joshua easy imo.
The better the opponent the better Fury is. Can he be in peak condition for February. That I don't know.
Really wish we could search further than 4 pages as my opinion really has not changed all that much since he was riding Amir Khan undercards. Very careful and selective match making. For lack of a better term I've always thought he had a lot of 'manufacturing' to thank for being viewed as some mythical Thors hammer and it pretty much showed out once he hit the championship best faced level. His first 25 opponents were woefully bad. Do a deep dive and it's very telling as they were a mix of former Lt heavyweights, cruiserweights, some off multiyear layoffs and others were basically professional stunt men. Simply put...cannon fodder to pad that record with glossy KO's. #15 a Lt hvy. #20 was a Lt hvy 5 years inactive. #25 Damon McCreary debuted at middleweight and came in off a 5-year layoff with just 1 fight over 185. We know fighters have soft touches, but there was a reason his first half were left as highlight clips on Fox Espanol cards or the local bingo hall. Unfortunately Wilder became a fighter who incorporated his flaws as part of his overall game. He got a pass because there was no vital adversity coming back at him. Once you hit the "big stage" you simply cannot learn backwards. Moving forward he became a one trick pony with the now vaunted TV friendly eraser.
There was a mini buzz for his Showtime debut vs the 6'6 ex basketball player Kelvin Price. The manufacture serving its purpose. And coincidentally enough it was also the first WBC awarded to 26-0 Wilder :-X. Then it was to Mexico to ko Matthew Greer who had already been flattened by James Toney and would be flattened by Andy Ruiz two months later. I think Primo had the right idea with a line by line so trying that..
#28- Audley Harrison was used up but was smart marketing. Harrison had a mini run with tourney win and UK debut for Wilder. Fair enough.
#29- Siarhei Liakhovich also used up and 1.5 year out after being KO'd by a 12-0 Bryant Jennings. Think about that. BUT the White Wolf gave Andy Ruiz a good fight next out.
#30- Nicolai Firtha last fight for Firtha. Had already been ko'd by Fury and Tye Fields :-X
#31- Malik Scott does anyone remember Scott wearing a brown paper bag over his head at the weigh in? That actually happened. He was ranked 23 by the WBC
#32- Jason Gavern oof. Nice enough guy. Only thing memorable is how sloppy Wilder was and his literally telling Gavern what punches to throw before the end.
#33- Bermane Stiverne 1. I liked this fight for Wilder. Stiverne in shape and fresh. Actually, thought Wilder fought smart and showed patience and working jab.
#34- Eric Molina. Ranked 26 by the WBC and three months later Molina was ranked 11 :sneaky:. Tough guy though. Easy to forget he had Wilder badly hurt to the body and rocked him before going out.
#35- Johann Duhaupas. Not ranked in top 40 by WBC. Six months later come fight time he was 12 :sneaky:. But a tough dude and another that was a tough fight for Wilder. Recall Wilder being pretty busted up before taking him out.
#36- Artur Szpilka. Came in 6 weeks notice after Wilder vs Glavkov fell thru. One of the first come from behind nice KO's for Wilder. He was getting his ears boxed.
#37- Chris Arreola. Unranked by every sanctioning body and on a bad slide. Saw him get outboxed by Curtis Harper year prior but get w. Wilder claims multiple injuries post fight after Chris stays on his stool.
#38- Gerald Washington. Late sub for Wilder. Another "big" man who was on a little run but limited. Outboxing Wilder before stopped. 5 months later he was stopped by Big Pharma Jarrell Miller.
#39- Bermane Stiverne II. Stiverne late sub and built like a parade float. He had already accepted step aside money to not fight Wilder but replaced Luis Ortiz after he was popped for PEDs. He had no desire to be there but Wilder got that distance win erased and KO monicker back.
#40- Luis Ortiz I. Fresh off half ass PED suspension but ranked 5th by the Ring. This imo was Wilders best win. It was a war and Wilder on the brink of being stopped twice before he came back. Very impressive ko for him all in all.
#41- Tyson Fury I. Tough enough fight but felt Fury largely outboxed and out foxed Wilder. The dramatic KD's were highlights and tilted much of the draw result. But had Fury winning. And it was no turning back with Wilder convinced all he needed was a right hand bomb. Not be a knob, but somewhat the beginning of the end for Wilder.
#42- Dominic Breazeale. Already beaten by Joshua this was a comparable for Wilder. Breazeale had the speed of an ice glacier and was a deer in the headlights. Perfect KO for Wilder.
#43- Luis Ortiz II. Good rematch and repeat of his best win. Again was being outboxed cleanly until catching Ortiz and catapult into Fury rematch.
#44- Tyson Fury II. A needed rematch. But Fury learned from first fight Wilder did not. Gritty but wasted Wilder was beaten from pillar to post and Mark Breland did exactly what a cornerman needed to do, save his fighter. Then he was fired.
#45- Tyson Fury III. Let's be honest. Absolutely no one wanted or needed this fight. Fury was talking BS of an AJ fight all the while knowing Wilder had the legal court order to pull. Wilder huge 4th but again beaten up.
#46- Robert Helenius. Wilder back after year away. Helenius had rebuilt after being flattened by Gerald Washington with wins over hyped Kownacki. Statement KO to say "I still have it" for Wilder, he did what he had to do. And then he dodged matches with top contenders and stayed inactive for 14 months :p
#47- Joseph Parker. Wilder shows what massive inactivity and constantly overrating his power arrives at. Mentally and physically listless and indifferent throughout. He got complacent, too content and over fed waiting on "big Saudi money" and it all blew up on him. The End.
Fantastic post by @Spicoli there. If people don’t get the message now, I suppose they never will.
Joshua v the Wilder who Fury fought the first time. Where would all your money have been with a gun to your head?
AJ during his undefeated phase would be too good for Wilder. His better boxing skills would mean he lands first in the shoot out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
After the Ruiz and Usyk losses I would bet on Wilder who was delusional enough to land first against a hesitant AJ.
Now AJ, as Wilder looks content being beaten and picking up his money.
Joshua. 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. Joshua against any Wilder ever. @Spicoli has gone into great detail to show how Wilder’s CV is padded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Well mine would have been safely on wilder. I have no doubt that joshua would have been ahead and been leading on all scorecards but in 36 minutes Wilder would land. And it would be over
Thanks bud. Just interesting to dig into glossy records. Sometimes boxing has the ability to massage and stack numbers like a casino dealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
Is it a water pistol by any chance ;D. Cannot unsee what actually played out at that time but end of the day I had Joshua beating Wilder. But I never saw it concrete and 100 percent certain. Afterall...it's boxing. AJ was months away from being demolished by Ruiz when Wilder fought Fury. His whole attitude was shat leading up to and entering. He felt all he had to do was stuff a punch in the fat man...who could actually fight a bit...and he'd win. Standing in his corner at intro chewing on his mouthpiece, staring into the lights and slouching. But would he have that let-down mind set if it was Wilder, I don't see it. He'd be sharp and more so feel the live threat of a Wilder who had yet to be torn down clean. But AJ also doesn't get full credit for coming back and actually adjusting. May be crazy to say but in a way he may have gotten slightly better after being dumped on his ass. Certainly shown more gears. He didn't just 'lose' to a fighter in Usyk. He lost to one of the top technical fighters and boxing minds of an era and improved in rematch. I see Wilder having his moment but AJ survives and he's not just sitting there waiting for Wilder to drop a telegraphed wind up bomb. He'd be a 230 lb+ heavyweight throwing back, better timing and in combination with his own legit power bombs. Too many tools for Wilder then and def now. Wins either time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Damn shame we missed it tbh. No matter who you pull for this fight should have happened years ago! Way too many of those 'big' fights falling by the wayside today.
I accept all these opinions on AJ win.
I mean they're completely wrong but I do accept them.
Wilder sneaks thru the Heat Seeking missile EASIER than Klit did and with WAY, WAY more force. Joshua ain't getting up. Deontay KO 6
deontay was always smoke & mirrors. he did well with what he had & starting late but his career was carefully maneuvered
Did Wilder over- achieve?
He started boxing at like 20
I'm sure we all agree he wasn't the best technically
With the help of some strategic match-making they got him to Stiverne
I remember many thinking he'd lose
Who expected him to come out & box, winning almost every round?
Then he got to his 1st real big challenge in Ortiz
However much he struggled in that fight he ended it with a shot gun blast in the 10th
He then fought Fury with lineal claims to a draw dropping him twice & with a different ref in a different place the fight could have been stopped
He put Breazeale to sleep & gave Ortiz a rematch
He then re-matched Fury & took a beating
He came back for more though & dropped Fury twice more in their 3rd fight
I personally think his record is thin but he achieved much more than I expected him to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J
Thank you for adding a different perspective on this.
In this mostly Wilder-hating forum, it's hard to find anyone that'll give him the credit he deserves. True, I did a 180 on him after his piss-poor performance against Parker. I also feel it's a totally different Wilder now than it was back in the "pre-3rd Fury fight days." Mainly because I think he's let the money and fame get to his head... plus the 3rd Fury fight took everything out of him.
But you're right on point regarding his previous fights and resume. He achieved much more than I expected him to, also.
Plus I'll say for the umpteenth time that a Wilder-Joshua fight (before they both got damaged) would've been a fight for the ages... and I would've given each a 50/50 chance.
Wilder has claimed he heard a "rumour" AJ would have ended his illustrious career had he added Parker's name to his list of victims.
He told 78SPORTSTV: "The rumour was he was talking about retiring if I won… March 9th, the fight still can go on.
"But this is a perfect way for them to get out.”
And Wilder has a theory for why Hearn is touting other opponents for the Watford warrior.
He said: “They really don’t want that fight. When I lost, did you see how happy he was coming out?
"I broke out laughing, I said, ‘he's happy as f***."
"I made him able to perform like that. He was like, ‘I ain’t gotta fight Wilder.’"
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/25191...ht-retirement/
I'm torn between my original impression that Wilder took too much of a beating in the fury 3 fight and would not have really anything left for future fights coupled with the fact that that knockout of Robert helenius was kind of just like a one-trick pony because it looked like Wilder had his eyes shut when he threw the Punch, OR..... If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt maybe he really did just have a bad night out against Parker...
EITHER WAY WILDER IS NOT A GOOD FIGHT FOR ANTHONY JOSHUA BECAUSE IT COULD SPELL TROUBLE AND WILDER ALWAYS HAS THAT HEAT SEEKING MISSILE TO PUT SOMEBODY TO SLEEP., EVEN IF HE LOSES EVERY ROUND IT'S ALWAYS AN IMMINENT THREAT.
I think wilder's reasoning is twisted and wrong but I do think that Anthony Joshua does not want this fight especially not on his little mini so-called comeback that he is making. If Wilder sparked Joshua that would definitely be the end of Joshua's career.
Little Anthony does not need to take this rather big risk
@Spicoli could you repost this please , i think some people missed it first time round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
infact if you don't , I'm gonna copy and paste it 20 times and post it!
Fair enough perspective but again save for Ortiz he won and lost every fight I thought he would, one fans pov. Well and then of course there was Parker :-X. And the strategic match making not only led to Stiverne...who won the title as a rated underdog vs Chris Arreola...but continued after. Considering what he was working with and obvious flaws we all saw, sure he did well for himself. But I see it more as a flawed over self promoting fighter leveling off once the levels actually and finally ticked up. The man actually thought he was a more dangerous puncher than Tyson ffs ;D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J
And now AJ has basically put himself in a literal stay busy match with a 0-1-0 trivia question aka Ngannou...or flush career and any and all future down the toilet position. Almost enough to make me wish Wilder would have pulled the miracle vs Parker but it was not to be :-X.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell
What's astonishing is that everyone made fun of Tyson Fury for fighting this guy and now Joshua wants to do the same thing? With very good reason he is now going to get double the criticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliAnd now AJ has basically put himself in a literal stay busy match with a 0-1-0 trivia question aka Ngannou...or flush career and any and all future down the toilet position. Almost enough to make me wish Wilder would have pulled the miracle vs Parker but it was not to be :-X.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell
Imagine how much worse it would actually be if Wilder had won that fight and Joshua still chose to fight Francis!
Bottom line is... any possibility of Wilder vs Joshua was blown out of the water thanks to Wilder's pitiful effort against Parker. And there's only one person to blame for that.
Wilder.
We're all left to our theories and conjectures about undamaged Wilder vs undamaged Joshua. They range from "Joshua would've swept the floor with Wilder".... to "Wilder connects on Joshua and KTFO's him worse than Ruiz ever did."
And that's all they are... theories and conjectures.
Deontay Wilder reportedly could fight Zhilei Zhang on the undercard of Anthony Joshua vs Francis Ngannou.
https://talksport.com/sport/1701854/...nou-undercard/
The guy is on a self destruct mission. Zhang will stand in front of Wilder, take everything he’s got, then knock him the fuck out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It should be Zhang v AJ and Wilder should retire.