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LOL... and it should be obvious to anyone who even casually watches this sport. I think when Canelo fought Bivol he REALLY didn't know how good Bivol was. Maybe his arrogance got the better of him and dismissed Bivol's clear boxing ability. If he had known truly how good Bivol was he would not have taken that fight.
Now we get to see Canelo run from Benavidez... It is really pathetic, considering you people call him one of the best in the world. :rolleyes:
why did canelo offer the same terms for a rematch with dmitry at light heavy if he would have never taken the fight? dmitry turned down the rematch offer for the same terms
david b chose to give up his wbc interim belt & not try to force a mandatory shot & instead remain at light heavy
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Yep.
"Pathetic" is the applicable word.
In some more obvious news Usyk is the best heavyweight in the world, Wilder is shot, Bivol v Beterbiev is for the best light heavyweight in the division, Inoue is an exciting power puncher.
Come on now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
1. Why should Bivol take a rematch after he won the first fight for the same money? i.e. a fraction of Canelo’s purse (despite losing the 1st fight)
2. Benavidez moved up because he was tired of waiting for Canelo. Let’s be honest, the fight has been there for a LONG TIME. If Canelo wanted it, it could’ve happened……….but clearly he never wanted it.
I know this is how it is nowadays , and you might churn out other similar examples, but it doesn’t make it right.
I get it from Canelo, he doesn’t want to throw his legacy away, he’s not getting any younger, why should he take the risk?
Well, that’s fine , good luck to him . BUT , in the future, when his career is looked at in the “all time” debates, he’s not gonna be anywhere in the shake up because he avoided Benavidez.
1, did dmitry's team make an offer for the rematch? he wanted to fight at super middle, did his team make an offer to canelo? canelo offered the same terms, still good money & another high profile fight, wasn't that better than a years activity & then fighting lyndon arthur?Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraCome on now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
1. Why should Bivol take a rematch after he won the first fight for the same money? i.e. a fraction of Canelo’s purse (despite losing the 1st fight)
2. Benavidez moved up because he was tired of waiting for Canelo. Let’s be honest, the fight has been there for a LONG TIME. If Canelo wanted it, it could’ve happened……….but clearly he never wanted it.
I know this is how it is nowadays , and you might churn out other similar examples, but it doesn’t make it right.
I get it from Canelo, he doesn’t want to throw his legacy away, he’s not getting any younger, why should he take the risk?
Well, that’s fine , good luck to him . BUT , in the future, when his career is looked at in the “all time” debates, he’s not gonna be anywhere in the shake up because he avoided Benavidez.
2, did canelo make david b lose his belt twice? if he had of been disciplined he still would have had a belt when canelo officially moved back to super middle. the fight has been there for a long time & if canelo wanted to give david b the opportunity he could have, maybe canelo didn't want to give david b a payday
i've never said it is right
do you think the first dmitry fight & then offering a rematch is a bigger risk than david b?
canelo didn't offer david b a fight, he also never offered a fight to david morrell & william scull who were both ahead of david b in the rotation, he was never mandated to do so, until william scull recenty. when david b just recently had the chance to keep his wbc interim belt & try to force a mandatory fight he chose to remain at light heavy. canelo will be a first ballot hall of famer & he'll leave the debating to fans like us in the future
That's been very apparent for some time now. All the clean up and Canelo nose whipping will follow him after his retirement and Benavidez will be the glaring asterisk on Canelos's story. I'm in a weird place with Canelo right now though. The whole Turki spat and having him promote the ufc and directly against boxing and the fighters on the Canelo card, I don't like that. That doesn't speak "savior of boxing" to me. The guy has no long term vision. The Sept card is an abysmal card for sure. Soft touch cherry pick for Canelo but I don't fault him at all for the Crawford carnival fight falling apart. And I'm glad it did for both of their sakes. But yeh, Canelo no hablo David Benavidez. He hasn't wanted or taken an equal dangerous serious threat since Bivol.
Benavidez is not white enough for Canelo
was austin trout white enough? what about erislandy lara, what about floyd or james kirkland or jermell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Denilson3.0
1.answering a question with a question doesn’t cut it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC1, did dmitry's team make an offer for the rematch? he wanted to fight at super middle, did his team make an offer to canelo? canelo offered the same terms, still good money & another high profile fight, wasn't that better than a years activity & then fighting lyndon arthur?Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraCome on now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
1. Why should Bivol take a rematch after he won the first fight for the same money? i.e. a fraction of Canelo’s purse (despite losing the 1st fight)
2. Benavidez moved up because he was tired of waiting for Canelo. Let’s be honest, the fight has been there for a LONG TIME. If Canelo wanted it, it could’ve happened……….but clearly he never wanted it.
I know this is how it is nowadays , and you might churn out other similar examples, but it doesn’t make it right.
I get it from Canelo, he doesn’t want to throw his legacy away, he’s not getting any younger, why should he take the risk?
Well, that’s fine , good luck to him . BUT , in the future, when his career is looked at in the “all time” debates, he’s not gonna be anywhere in the shake up because he avoided Benavidez.
2, did canelo make david b lose his belt twice? if he had of been disciplined he still would have had a belt when canelo officially moved back to super middle. the fight has been there for a long time & if canelo wanted to give david b the opportunity he could have, maybe canelo didn't want to give david b a payday
i've never said it is right
do you think the first dmitry fight & then offering a rematch is a bigger risk than david b?
canelo didn't offer david b a fight, he also never offered a fight to david morrell & william scull who were both ahead of david b in the rotation, he was never mandated to do so, until william scull recenty. when david b just recently had the chance to keep his wbc interim belt & try to force a mandatory fight he chose to remain at light heavy. canelo will be a first ballot hall of famer & he'll leave the debating to fans like us in the future
2. More questions , but not addressing the point.
If 2 points are made, they have to be answered and addressed before you can start asking questions that you expect to be answered.
Fundamentals of debating mate.
1, i can only give my opinion. dmitry should have taken the offer from canelo for the same terms because it was the only offer (therefore the best offer), it was still good money for dmitry & another high profile fight, it was better than remaining inactive for over a year to end up fighting lyndon arthur
2, addressed the point, david b was not disciplined & lost his belt twice, if not for his own actions he would have still held a belt when canelo officially moved back to super middle. the fight was there if canelo wanted it, maybe canelo didn't want to give a payday to david b, just like he didn't give a payday to david morrell or william scull who were both ahead of david b in the mandatory rotation
unfortunately you & i are not debating, i am giving you questions to ask before making your points. i don't expect anything from you
These are the ages of the black fighters when Canelo fought themQuote:
Originally Posted by TIC
- Daniel Jones (32 yrs old)
- James Kirkland (32 yrs old)
- Floyd Mayweather (36 yrs old)
- Austin Trout (30 yrs old)
- Erilandy Lara (32 years old)
- Shane Mosley (41 yrs old)
- Lanardo Tyner (34 yrd old)
- Jermall Charlo (33 years old)
Say what you want but Nelo has a lack of good (in their prime) black fighters on his resume.
That's why he and his team will never fight a David Morrell (26 yrs old) or Benavidez (He's not white enough and he's in his prime at 27)
Canelo don't want smoke with prime black fighters. Everyone knows that. But he's ran out of white European fighters to smack down so he might have to grow a pair and fight a prime live top black fighter.
Well this whole forum is based on debating ???? And I gave you questions first.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
you were talking about the colour of peoples skin & now you're changing your argument to age. talk about moving the goal postsQuote:
Originally Posted by Denilson3.0These are the ages of the black fighters when Canelo fought themQuote:
Originally Posted by TIC
- Daniel Jones (32 yrs old)
- James Kirkland (32 yrs old)
- Floyd Mayweather (36 yrs old)
- Austin Trout (30 yrs old)
- Erilandy Lara (32 years old)
- Shane Mosley (41 yrs old)
- Lanardo Tyner (34 yrd old)
- Jermall Charlo (33 years old)
Say what you want but Nelo has a lack of good (in their prime) black fighters on his resume.
That's why he and his team will never fight a David Morrell (26 yrs old) or Benavidez (He's not white enough and he's in his prime at 27)
Canelo don't want smoke with prime black fighters. Everyone knows that. But he's ran out of white European fighters to smack down so he might have to grow a pair and fight a prime live top black fighter.
biological age is not indicative of prime in the ring. what a casual take. where were austin, erislandy, floyd & jermell ranked when canelo fought them?
jaime munguia would be one of david m or david b best opponents if they fought
you talking for everyone one? i don't know that i saw canelo take on floyd when he was considered number one pound for pound & a two weight belt holder, austin & erislandy were considered among the top jr middleweights when canelo fought them, danny jacobs i thought beat ggg & jermell was an undisputed champion
what prime live top black fighter do you want canelo to fight next?
this forum is based on posting thoughts (mainly about boxing)Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWell this whole forum is based on debating ???? And I gave you questions first.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
i just answered your questions. the usual format of a debate is to first lay out your argument, not ask questions
But that’s the point , you never. And for the record, I “laid out my argument “ although I would say it was more a point of view than argument, which you disputed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICthis forum is based on posting thoughts (mainly about boxing)Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWell this whole forum is based on debating ???? And I gave you questions first.Quote:
Originally Posted by TIC
i just answered your questions. the usual format of a debate is to first lay out your argument, not ask questions
That’s when I asked a question, merely to highlight my point of view.
Btw. Your final sentence was a bit rich considering all you ever do is ask questions. ;D;D;D
you replied to my original question about the dmitry rematch
i have answered your questions
your point was that david b moved up because he was tired of waiting, that maybe true, my point was if david b had of been disciplined he still would have held a belt when canelo officially moved back to super middle
you think canelo never wanted the david b fight for whatever reason, i just think canelo didn't want to give david b a payday after a certain point for whatever reason, not that he is afraid of him
i was explaining the usual format of a debate, since you felt the need to try & explain the fundamentals of debating to me
what's wrong with asking questions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denilson3.0These are the ages of the black fighters when Canelo fought themQuote:
Originally Posted by TIC
- Daniel Jones (32 yrs old)
- James Kirkland (32 yrs old)
- Floyd Mayweather (36 yrs old)
- Austin Trout (30 yrs old)
- Erilandy Lara (32 years old)
- Shane Mosley (41 yrs old)
- Lanardo Tyner (34 yrd old)
- Jermall Charlo (33 years old)
Say what you want but Nelo has a lack of good (in their prime) black fighters on his resume.
That's why he and his team will never fight a David Morrell (26 yrs old) or Benavidez (He's not white enough and he's in his prime at 27)
Canelo don't want smoke with prime black fighters. Everyone knows that. But he's ran out of white European fighters to smack down so he might have to grow a pair and fight a prime live top black fighter.
If you remove the word "black" from most of your post, it actually makes sense. Canelo don't want smoke with prime fighters. Period. Forget the black. They're also included.
Another thing. He ran out of white BRITISH fighters to smack down. "European" would include Golovkin, who got robbed in their first fight, inexplicably gave Canelo too much respect in their 2nd... and was an old 40-year old man dragged up to supermiddle for the first time in his career and was destined to lose.